Star Trek Discovery (Pilot Episodes) – re:View

September 28, 2017550 Comments

Mike and Rich sit down to have a long talk about trek. No more interjecting Star Trek references into videos, fuckers. This time it’s ALL TREK ALL DAY LONG. Did they like Discovery? FIND OUT!!!


Filed in: re:View

  • ✨il Cattivo✨

    Is it bad if I compulsively skip ahead to see if it becomes a black screen for 30 minutes?

  • Malachi

    Rich was right at 15:30. She did change it from stun to kill.

  • Jim’s Father

    Enterprise ended in 2005. It literally took twelve years to make!

  • Jeg Simmons

    the prime directive is fucking stupid.

  • Malachi

    They should watch the third episode of The Orville. Thar was TNG-like.

  • Jeg Simmons

    Maybe YOU GUYS should make your own TNG style scifi show.

  • Mike Magnum

    I believe the Prime Directive was Gene way of saying why the US shouldn’t be starting wars like in Vetnam

  • Jeg Simmons

    but the US didnt START those wars, the communist backed by the USSR and china did.

    So it falls flat because gene is saying “hey dont prevent mass murder, genocide and oppression of your allies”.

  • Mike Magnum

    I think Seth Macfarlane is showing that you can go home again. You might have tell a few jokes or even bad jokes to get there. But it can be done. As for the Star Trek Discovery. I found it extremely boring. I think a Piece of Wood (Oak Preferably) would be a far more compelling protagonist than Micheal. Ill probably keep watching. But im not getting any enjoyment from this show so far.

  • playdude92 .

    Rich is exactly right, that the opening episode(s) should have been flashbacks in later episodes. The first episode, aka pilot, needs to represent what the show is about and it´s called, specificly!, Discovery. Unless… this IS what the show´s about, in which case it´s not Star Trek, just an average, action SciFi show.

  • Moist

    Fuck it. I’m going to eat all of the post-apocalypse quality mac-n-chee I have left. Carpe Diem!

  • Moist

    WTF, Rich, those are the hiking boots I wear.

  • Gato Incógnito

    Orville, especially after that third episode, is the true spiritual heir to Star Trek! I much prefer it.

  • Gene

    I thought the new show was well made but very underwhelming. I have no interest in seeing more of it. Of course in my opinion there hasnt been a good trek since ds9. I hated voyager with a passion and enterprise was just pathetic. It is beyond me how mike can like voyager and at the same time think the dominion war was bad.

  • Gato Incógnito

    DS9 was Peak Trek. Yeah, everything after was disappointing. Enterprise started to show promise in Season 4 though!

  • Gene

    I didnt make it that long on enterprise. Like i did with voyager when it was on i gave enterprise two years. Like i said while voyager was just offensively bad enterprise was just weak. I am a big Scott Bakula fan though! From Quantum Leap, one of my favorite shows.

  • Popo Bawa

    Of course, since the US had an ideological bug up its ass, ANYBODY could become an ally if it meant the US had an excuse to expand its military presence and murder communists, in defense of dibs on resources and the right to set up souvenir stands and McDonalds.

  • frankelee

    Even as a liberal, I do roll my eyes at the liberal tendency to say, “That dictator wouldn’t have caused all that trouble if you didn’t fight back.”

  • Popo Bawa

    I hate to say it, but Peak Trek for me is The Motion Picture. That was the ultimate in Star Trek as exploring the unknown. TNG was good once it got going. But war and drama are the most boring things ever, and Trek since then has had less to do with anything interesting.

    It hurts that they call this series “Discovery”, because it looks as far removed from exploration and discovery as it gets. I might watch some anyway, but it has nothing to do with what I like Star Trek for.

  • Gato Incógnito

    I didn’t get to Voyager until way later when I was determined to watch all the Trek. (I still need to see the Animated series too). Sometimes I’d have to watch one episode in three different sittings, it was that bad. It did get a little better in the last couple seasons though… but most of it was cheap knockoff TNG…. like “what if it’s that one TNG episode but instead of A we do B!”

    Enterprise was… yeah it was trash. I watched the first two seasons on and off initially. Season 3 I skipped all but the first episode or two, it felt Attack of the Clones bad.

    Then, Season 4 was going to have a new showrunner, so I came back, and apart from a handful of real sh*tty episodes like the ones explaining the Klingon appearance difference and the final episode of the series, it was really, really great. But too little, too late.

  • Chowderbatter

    The worst part about the Klingons, apart from their Twisted Sister/Gwar/Siegfried and Roy flamboyant Mardi Gras get-ups, was the marbles-in-the-mouth dialogue. They spoke very slowly (to enunciate –> fail) like they had all suffered lifelong CTE from playing too many seasons in the Klingon Xtreme Rugby League (KXRL). They weren’t frightening or intimidating at all. They sort of look like lumbering Christmas crab-tanks at a Dubai rest home.

    And after seeing (fast forwarding much of it) the first two episodes of this show, don’t get me started on the rest. It was awful. I’ll probably dip my toes in at the end of the season when the fans pick a consensus stand-out ep, but this doesn’t look good. And I am a hardcore, long-time Trek fan.

    I just don’t like crap.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Gene was a commie, though. If TNG is anything to go by, anyway.

  • David Anderson

    PTSD

  • Jack Smith

    Maybe Star Trek should Just Die. What the point of keeping Star Trek alive if you are going abandon everything that it is about. Star Trek now is like sickly old man being kept alive for only for his money alone. And in this scenario Alex Kurtzman (aka hack writer of the universe) is the evil relative who will lose everything if his Uncle passes away. Thing is that everything that made Star Trek great is gone at this point. The Jar Jar movies proved that even pandering to the lowest common denominator. Star Trek not going to make Star Wars money and now they just want to do the same thing on Television. I say put it out of its misery.

  • Chowderbatter

    I mark peak Trek as TNG. In fact, to be even more specific, the peak was First Contact in 1996. After that, I’ve lost real interest, though I eventually get around to checking things out. Twenty-one years since any decent Trek. That’s my take.

    I watched all of DS9 and Voyager, but mostly because I was waiting for the other shoe to drop and, for me, it never did. It was always just okay. Like a gas station bag of chips on a long drive, or an airport hamburger. I don’t like the recent movies and I just completely skipped Enterprise. I’ll probably do the same with this.

    The irony is I like to hear people TALK about Star Trek and Star Wars. I like Star Wars even less than Trek these days, but I love to hear RLM guys kick it around.

  • Devil_Dinosaur

    The Family Guy is the true spiritual heir to The Simpsons! I much prefer it.

    A Million Ways to Die in the West is the true spiritual heir to Blazing Saddles! I much prefer it.

    Luckily, The Orville (Next Generation with dick jokes) won’t make it past this season, and Discovery will boldly keep pissing off nerds with bad taste.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    It makes no sense. Choosing not to interfere in a species’ development is still interference, it’s just less immediately obvious to the inferior race involved.

    Just once I’d like to see an episode where a species finally breaks the warp barrier, the Enterprise shows up to welcome them to the Federation, the captain happens to mention how the Federation didn’t intervene a century earlier to prevent the very world war that led the species to develop warp technology in the first place.

    And then the species immediately destroys the Enterprise and rapidly exterminates the entire Federation civilization, ending the series prematurely.

    I mean, imagine if some snooty aliens show up tomorrow and casually mention that they did nothing to prevent some society-defining tragedy they were aware of and could’ve easily stopped with the push of a button (like the Holocaust, or the Boxing Day Tsunami, whatever), just because of some stupid bureaucratic rule, I doubt it wouldn’t color our relationship with the alien species for generations, at the very least. Most likely it’d lead to outright war.

  • Kevin Anderson

    just finished watching the 2nd ep of Orville. Really like it. It’s not laugh-out-loud funny but its very amusing and captures the heart of Star Trek the way Galaxy Quest did.

  • Jack Smith

    So what you going do if the opposite happens. And lest be honest. The New Trek is really about sucking people into paying for CBS All Access.

  • Kevin Anderson

    It really does feel the same as Voyager/Paramount Network in that respect.

  • Kevin Anderson

    What? And end up like Axanar?

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    The best parts of Voyager was the Doctor and 7 of 9, because they hated the rest of the characters as much as I did. The best episode was the one where it was just Picardo and Ryan the whole episode for some reason.

    Enterprise had a lot of problems, including the whole premise, which constantly felt like the writers didn’t sit down and think it through first. You can’t do a prequel to shows like Star Trek, without having some reason for new species to show up, and an explanation for how the much slower ships of the new show can somehow reach the far side Federation space.

    Half the episodes were introducing Ferengi or Borg, and then 10 minutes of back-peddling at the climax to explain how no one remembers them until TNG.

    The Mirror-Universe episode was fun though.

  • frankelee

    Maybe it’s just time they cancelled the human race.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    I know you typed “Star Trek” there, but my eyes keep seeing “Doctor Who”….

  • Jack Smith

    To tell the Truth. I haven’t watch much Doctor Who since David Tennant played the part.

  • Adam Levine

    Sorry, gotta disagree with you boys on this one. This is the first Trek in a long time that actually feels like it means something. No it’s not what we’re used to, but if you look at it as a more mature DS9, you’ll see it is true Trek.

  • Chowderbatter

    “The Star Trek Rich Evans Wants.”

    Star Trek: AIIIIIIIIIIDDDSS.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    I watched the Smith era, but felt that the show reached a natural ending at the 50th Anniversary movie. I reached a point where I knew everything I possibly wanted to know about the Doctor and the series universe; everything left is stuff I’d prefer remained a mystery, like the Doctor’s real name. All that’s left now is gimmicks and endlessly retreading the same material. (Nothing against Capaldi and whoever the new doctor is)

    And honestly, they could’ve just as easily ended the whole show on that last episode with Donna in Tennant’s 4th season and I’d have felt the same way.

  • Imaf

    Hey Mike and Rich, do more reviews of new Trek. Just sayin.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    “a more mature DS9”

    But Babylon 5 already exists….

  • Gene

    The animated series is fun. Several episodes are written by people who wrote for the original show including a sequel to Trouble with Tribbles by David Gerrold who wrote the original episode. I think it’s on netflix, you could probably finish the whole thing in a couple of days. I kind of think of it as the unofficial last two years of the five year mission! ….I had the same determination as you di that i HAD to watch every star trek no matter how bad it was. I forced myself to watch the first two years of voyager when it was on in the mid 90s but i hated it from the very first episode. Then i remember when that first episode of the third season premiered and i just couldnt take it anymore!

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    I’ve been watching it on Amazon Prime, so it’s definitely available there. Pretty solid show, too. Feels like finding lost TOS episodes, which I guess it sort of is.

  • To me where Trek should go next has always been obvious: Andromeda. A few decades or maybe a century after Voyager, Federation has spread through the whole galaxy and the Dominion and the Borg are no longer threats. The show revolves around a handful of ships, maybe 3 or 4, on a one way voyage to the next galaxy over to scout things out. Get people like Ted Chiang and Jeff VanderMeer to guest write episodes. Bring some real cutting edge science fiction to the people. When was the last time we had that?

  • Jack Smith

    I did love the The Day of the Doctor movie. I think it was last things that John Hurt did before he passed away. And it was really nice that they gave Tom Baker cameo. My favorite Doctor from the old series.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    They could call it Star Trek: Mass Effect, But Not The Good One.

    Or ST:MEBNTGO for short.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Baker is my favorite of the old who doctors as well. I was very happy to see him show up again.

    Really, Day of the Doctor felt like a good way of wrapping up the series; finally explain the whole Time-War thing that was the big mystery of the new Who era, and Baker’s cameo was a nice connection back to the old Who, along with the other cameos of past Doctors.

    And I liked Hurt in that a lot, they even gave him a good outfit.

  • Mike Magnum

    By the way is anyone disappointed that Mike didn’t once say “WHAT WRONG WITH YOUR FACE”. When it came to the Klingons.

  • rhume55

    I think you nailed it at the end there. The reason it’s set 10 years before ST:TOS is because they plan to reintroduce young Kirk and Spock at some point.

  • Moist

    Wait, what about the fact that you’re expected to subscribe to [vestigial broadcast channel]’s streaming service in order to get this?

  • Mike Magnum

    I remember Andromeda. I think it stared Kevin Sorbo.I loved him in Hercules. You remember when TV wasn’t just about Assholes, being Assholes and doing Asshole related things.

  • Gato Incógnito

    Dork Dinosaur has spoken.

  • Gato Incógnito

    TNG had the highest highs, but DS9 had the most consistently well written stuff, and a cast that could outperform TNG’s at nearly every level save for Patrick Stewart himself.

  • ChildofLight

    I think they’ve reached the “peak” already in TNG in Season 3 to 5. Between the first hyper creative steps with Tasha and the play it save, only manned by 10 people Enterprise at the end. DS9 couldnt be a carbon copy because it was no space ship that kept it interesting. And Voyager had a chance but didn’t make good use of it until they’ve decided to play it safe like TNG at the end. Just 5 seasons too early.

  • Gato Incógnito

    Yeah, cheap excuses to bring in Ferengi and Borg, ruining the Vulcans (only to sort of fix them in the fourth season), and stuff that felt like the middle-aged showrunners were having a mid-life crisis, like that terrible theme song that aged them terribly.

    Picardo and Ryan were definitely the best parts. I honestly didn’t hate any of the actors. Most of the faults of Voyager were in the writing. Mulgrew had great presence and deserved better material to work with.

  • Gato Incógnito

    Wait til you see the next one! It is an honest-to-god pitch perfect one that struggles with some truly difficult ethics while also not copping out on the resolution. Powerful stuff. I legit got choked up on it. It elevated from GalaxyQuest-ish to being one of the best damn eps of TNG/TOS I’ve ever seen.

  • Gato Incógnito

    Also, I highly doubt STD is going to go past one season if it doesn’t elevate beyond a mindless installment of Abrams-flavored action shoot-em-up. It was sincere and genuine in presentation, but it’s giving BSG a run for its money on “dark and gritty” without (so far) any redeeming quality. It has next to no levity or room to breathe. It’s almost like they got Zach Snyder to come in and “bro” Trek up, but forgot to make it about anything other than trying to score a few cheap political points that Trek already scored and played much better in the 60’s and the 90’s.

  • Very disappointed about Bryan Fuller leaving this project.

  • Movie Wan Kenovie

    Holographic communications? C3PO vibe? Lobot copycat? War a-go-go? STD sure sounds like a different timeline to me Mike; just not the Kelvin one.

  • Gato Incógnito

    TNG isn’t communist, it’s post-scarcity. Both capitalism and communism are economic systems shaped specifically to deal with the problem of scarcity. If we are able to move beyond that limitation, the economics of the future are going to look very, very different from today. Plus, they still used credits, exchanged goods, and had the concept of private property.

  • Bleurgh

    Yeah at some point humans will have occupied all the planets they can in this galaxy. What happens then? Do they get desperate? Do rogue planets of humans start waging war on their neighbours? Who would that be? Less advanced cultures? Other human settlements? Maybe even groups in the federation? Then Starfleet has to step up and try and become a peace-keeping force whilst also looking for a way to get out to another galaxy, maybe through some kind of wormhole / super-hyper-speed travel / whatever technology. Of course, that technology would be worth a fortune and people would fight over it.

    Holy Shit, I just described Farscape completely accidentally.

  • Bleurgh

    The Capaldi era was really solid. It helps that they went back to the original characterisation somewhat. Grumpy, arrogant, misanthropic asshole.

  • Bleurgh

    They get around the look of the Klingons by making all the tribes looks different and establishing that the main group we are watching are a bunch of outcasts from Klingon society due to their genetic abnormalities. I would have liked it if there was at least one group that looked like a contemporary version of the TNG Klingons though.

  • Bleurgh

    There’s absolutely no need for you to watch Enterprise. It blows.

  • Bleurgh

    A lot of TOS is anti-Vietnam War. It’s important to keep that in mind as you watch if you go back.

  • Bleurgh

    It’s on netflix internationally. You guys are getting screwed.

  • Bleurgh

    It’s on netflix internationally. You guys are getting screwed.

  • Bleurgh

    I also like Saru.

  • Devil_Dinosaur

    Who are “they?”

  • Scumfall

    wasnt the drought caused by radiation released by a federation mining an asteroid or something ? and thats why they did the well thing – to put right what they had done

  • Farscape was fun.

  • The Klingons look like Emperor Puffyface from Revenge of the Sith. Like – I get what you’re going for but ease up on the prosthetic a little there. Looks like their masks are like an inch thick.

  • Thanatos

    You just listened to some guys talk for 40 minutes. That’s basically an episode of Star Trek.

  • Thanatos

    I instinctively muttered “Fuck you Rick Berman” when he appeared.

  • The Wicker Man (BWF)

    Why? He’s overrated. Hannibal was trash, save most of season 2. It completely warps the characters to fit into to some modern circle jerk take on virtue signaling altering established works, instead of having the balls to create new ones where we don’t shoe horn in artificial respect for people who are different. But whatever, that’s most of his projects. A small portion of the audience can smell their own farts and pleasure themselves as being “intellectual” at the expense of story telling. AT LEAST IT’S QUIRKY EL OH EL.

  • The Wicker Man (BWF)

    Farscape was entertainment. You know, like they used to make.

  • The Wicker Man (BWF)

    Farscape was entertainment. You know, like they used to make.

  • The Wicker Man (BWF)

    Lead by example.

  • The Wicker Man (BWF)

    Not a fan of the show anymore. I grew tired of the forced season long “mysteries” that were retconned at the end of each season. Watching Dr. Who grew to be like having attention deficit disorder, but also being addicted to meth and horse. It’s bipolar tv directed at dumb millennials to feel like you are part of “nerd culture”. The majority of the audience is peer pressured into watching it so they can signal how different they are in some sort of odd, corporate ritual.

    I am of the opinion the show should go back to its serial roots and spend more time telling a tale. But, I am also an old wanker who should kill herself. So whatever. That’s just my take on it. On your advice, I will try to give the rest of the PC run another shot though.

  • Joe

    Yeah of the complains about the show that one isn’t really one, they had an excuse to correct something because the federation already messed that planet up.

  • Bruce

    Agree mainly with Rich here. I love Mike and all of RLM but I think he is looking at this show too much through the eyes of a die-hard ST fan. The things he praises are the same things he knocked in Rogue One (I think it was awful as well). Dumb action and fan service, while avoiding that the characters are every bit as bad as Rogue One’s was and the main protagonist is actually worse. Mike is only human and it’s understandable that he is an optimist and hopeful of an IP he loves, but I don’t share this enthusiasm. Like any JJ Abrams film (even if it is only inspired), this show is a magic trick, with so much crap that happens in stylized shots, that it’s only when you think about the film/show afterwards, you realize how insane and stupid it was. Going by what we have seen on screen, Michael Burnham is an incompetent, bloodthirsty, racist/xenophobic, sociopath who has no place on a Starfleet vessel. Putting her in command of anything just makes all of the Federation less and all of the other characters pathetic.

    How can this unstable woman be the best the Federation has? It also makes the Federation huge hypocrites. Why should anyone listen to anything they have to say if Michael is put in command. Are we supposed to believe that all aliens now are caricatures, and monsters that are stupid? They would do some homework on their opponent and laugh at the idea of dealing with a war criminal. The Klingon’s would actually be seen as sympathetic by other alien races.The only way this show can be saved is if they kill her and scrap plans they had with her and give us a real Star Trek character to try and repair what this lunatic has wrought. Like Mike asked “do I want to live there”? If this is the Federation from now on I don’t want to be a part of it, let alone live there.

  • Zek

    Hated it.

  • Scumfall

    i dont think she was unstable at all , she was the only one who had any clue what was about to happen and the right way to deal with it and was ignored at every turn . … blow it up , attack first , capture the bad guy (well yeah they tried that , it went wrong and that was her fault) . ….. if you know whats right and no one listens , that aint unstable .

  • Pierre Adriaan Du Plessis

    [SPOILER]
    Of course, I still don’t understand how much the writer lacked modern world sensibilities, to have the two most superior officers travel on a hostile planet (on foot) and manually correct a problem, instead of sending down a well equipped “away team” – (yeah I remember them having those)… no. “Let’s send down our most vital two individuals to potentially die. What could go wrong?”

  • Uncle Dan

    So what’s the consensus over here? Looks like most of the YouTube commenters hate it.

    I’m surprised there wasn’t some discussion over the theme, at least in the plot. Much like in STB, STD does the space action movie thing with a theme of the Federation standing for unity in diversity and a peaceful future. It kind of sucks that it has to do this with space action undercutting that theme, but meh. Like they said, modern audiences want to see lasers and stuff.

    So I think of it as a necessary evil, really. If you have to have the lasers, at least let it be about something, and the philosophical conflict between the Klingons and Federation in the pilot episodes kinda worked for me except that the solution ended up being combat.

    So yeah, overall I liked it despite its flaws. We’ll see what happens.

  • Uncle Dan

    I’d love for them to give Babylon 5 a real try. That was a damn good show, but being big Trek fans probably coloured their perspectives, back in the 90s when that mattered.

  • Andy James

    Ugh. I watched the first episode out of curiosity, and it was just terrible. The jokes were broad and unfunny, and it felt like it had no idea what it wanted to be. I couldn’t figure out if I was supposed to be taking anything seriously or not. And Seth MacFarlane as a leading man has all the charisma of toast. It can’t have possibly improved enough by the third episode to make it worth watching.

  • Uncle Dan

    The concepts for all the Trek shows were interesting. Enterprise also had an interesting premise, you know? But it suffered from prequel problems, because “explaining where things come from” is actually boring and “How do we create an interesting conflict which has no bearing on the future shows” is also weird and boring.

  • Uncle Dan

    I haven’t tried Orville yet, but it sure feels like a lot of the fan response is just because they want classic Trek back, not necessarily that it’s actually good.

    Which, yeah, like Rich said, is evidence that there might be a market for that.

  • On the Utopia issue.
    We discussed this at University a couple of semesters ago. We discussed utopic fiction and tried to find modern examples. We could not come up with an example apart from Star Trek of a genuinely utopic vision of the future, that broke into pop culture. Considering how different this has been in the 19th century and to a lesser degree after WW2, it really shows the psychological change we have been exposed to since the late 1960s.
    An utopia that is not a dystopia in disguise needs imagination and hope, and apparently these are two things modern humans do not have in abundance.

  • Uncle Dan

    I think the purpose is very, very connected with colonialism. Because once you start interfering and people treat you as sufficiently-advanced gods, where do you go from there? It’s very tricky ethical territory and keeps the shows from straying too far from their purpose of exploration.

  • frankelee

    The RLM community is an ideal testing ground for me to begin my work.

  • Kawaii as Fuck

    Number 1, I order you to take a number 2!

    Also, where did Mike get that shirt?

  • Gallen Dugall

    I didn’t understand why Oprah was talking about tweets for the first thirty minutes, then suddenly there are two other characters on some planet where they have to shoot water, and suddenly it just ended. Felt very disjointed and didn’t make much sense.

  • Gallen Dugall

    Good point but I think it’s a little over dramatic. Trek was never a utopia and Roddenberry clearly forgot what Trek was about sometime before starting to make TNG. IMO the problem is lazy writing. It’s so much easier to write a setting where everything is in extremely obvious conflict with everything else. Where the conflicts are more subtle writing has to be more clever and there needs to be a certain amount of trust that the audience will be smart.

  • Bruce

    So I checked the Rotten Tomatoes and Metacritic of the Orville and Discovery.
    RT ST:D Critics. 81 percent. AUDIENCE. 63 percent.
    RT Orville Critics. 20 percent. AUDIENCE 89 percent.
    MC ST:D Critics 7.4/10 AUDIENCE 4.9/10
    MC Orville Critics 3.6/10 AUDIENCE 8/10

    Critics also gave Ghostbuster’s 2016 a 73/100 on RT and a “fresh” score. I simply don’t trust critics anymore. Anytime they think a property is pushing an agenda they align with, they will defend it to the death, while attacking anything competing with it. It’s time for movie and TV critics to be treated like game journalism. Does anyone really trust IGN on game reviews when the advertisements for the game are sitting there next to the review? Of course not. Heck they gave Rogue One “movie of the year” and have a TV show on Disney XD. Using movie or TV reviews as a metric at this point is very flawed, especially if you don’t also talk about the audience score. Journalism has never been worse than it is currently and until reviewers are held accountable for this crap, their scores are useless.

  • I would argue that TOS and TNG, but TOS even more, were definitely utopias. I do not mean Utopia as in a perfect society, but the literary genre of a society or world that is better than ours with no claim of being perfect.
    When you consider the society that was portrayed in TOS it was an utopic look into the future, especially considering it was the 1960s. There are of course not just a few episodes that were not very “progressive” even for its time, but overall it depicted a more pluralistic and equal society in every way.
    I fully agree on your second sentiment. Bad writing is a huge problem. I actually am among the heretics who don’t like DS9 very much. While I can appriciate it as good sci-fi, its writers seem to struggle the most with Roddenberry’s concept of a utopic future society, one without private property and not based on competition.

    I just miss programs that are not about dystopias or war and hatred. That are actually thinking about future societies and how humanity will change rather than just have current humans in a future world.

    As much as I loved the new BSG series, it was so much grounded in humanity of today and todays problems that you could have made almost the exact same series but set it in the early 21st century and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Of course that was the intent there 🙂
    I just want more visionaries to be allowed to show their visions rather than just doom prophets.

  • I would argue that TOS and TNG, but TOS even more, were definitely utopias. I do not mean Utopia as in a perfect society, but the literary genre of a society or world that is better than ours with no claim of being perfect.
    When you consider the society that was portrayed in TOS it was an utopic look into the future, especially considering it was the 1960s. There are of course not just a few episodes that were not very “progressive” even for its time, but overall it depicted a more pluralistic and equal society in every way.
    I fully agree on your second sentiment. Bad writing is a huge problem. I actually am among the heretics who don’t like DS9 very much. While I can appriciate it as good sci-fi, its writers seem to struggle the most with Roddenberry’s concept of a utopic future society, one without private property and not based on competition.

    I just miss programs that are not about dystopias or war and hatred. That are actually thinking about future societies and how humanity will change rather than just have current humans in a future world.

    As much as I loved the new BSG series, it was so much grounded in humanity of today and todays problems that you could have made almost the exact same series but set it in the early 21st century and you would be hard pressed to tell the difference. Of course that was the intent there 🙂
    I just want more visionaries to be allowed to show their visions rather than just doom prophets.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Mulgrew is someone I’ve liked in nearly everything (heck, she was Mrs. Columbo, after all), but her character on Voyager was insufferable. Much like Bakula, actually; good actors stuck with terrible writing and annoying character traits.

  • Gato Incógnito

    MacFarlane has no acting range. Thankfully the rest of the cast props him up. And it most certainly got better, but you’d have to watch to realize that. Or go find a summary of the episode to see what I’m talking about.

    I thought the humor was far less obnoxious than it was going to be, though. I hate Family Guy and American Dad and my original plans to watch it were out of morbid curiosity. The semi-cliffhanger at the end of the second episode, however, had me intrigued, and so I came back for the third one and WOW. Just amazing.

    Meanwhile, Discovery is just an Abrams-style mindless action fest, BUT it does show promise and I think the main actress has a LOT of charisma and acting chops to carry it forward. Hopefully the show will grow and not be continually dark like BSG. Trek is definitely not BSG. Which is why Orville seems to have captured the fun and the socially relevant aspects that STD abandoned (at least in those first two eps).

  • Gato Incógnito

    Yeah, she was limited by what she was given to work with.

  • EJ

    Everyone knows you send down all the most important people on the ship PLUS one random redshirt, in case somebody needs to get killed.

  • John G.

    Or, critics are smart and discerning, and mass audiences are dumb, which is why mass media appealing to the most people is always dumbed down, why Big Bang Theory is popular, why people eat processed cheese food. Also, maybe opinions aren’t fact, and you shouldn’t take someone else’s opinion that differs from yours as some kind of challenge to you personally.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    TNG, most especially the first season, had the problem of doing away with any concept of money or property (which Picard outright says in like the third episode when they pick up the frozen 80’s businessman/women), while also having the Klingons now part of the Federation.

    Without property and money the only motivation for characters, especially villains, is sex and revenge. And TNG made it pretty clear that even sex was basically free and easy to get, between the prostitute planet Risa and the holodeck sex-fantasies they hinted at in a few episodes.

    So that just leaves revenge to move the plot. Which rapidly leaves you with lots of characters that hate Picard for some inexplicable reason, and increasingly unrealistic Klingons who seem to just want to fly around and cause trouble for no real objective (and they’re suddenly an Empire again, not Federation members).

    From a purely writing standpoint, it was a mistake to do away with money in Star Trek. And that’s why from about the third season TNG onward, money and property are definitely tangible things (DS9 wouldn’t work as a concept without either), and the Ferengi were totally retooled from angry big-eared warriors with laser-lassos into a pseudo-Jewish/Money-grubbing race that are about on par with the flying junkdealer in Phantom Menace.

    The problem with true utopias from a writing standpoint and why they’re hard to actually find in literature, is that no one has any motivation to do anything. A utopian society always becomes just another variation of Eloi; lazy children with free food always at hand and no purpose or drive to become more than they already are.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Having read a far few critics over the years, “smart and discerning” is not the words I’d use to describe them.

    “Inconsistent as all fuck” comes to mind, though….

  • EJ

    With film critics, there was Roger Ebert, and then there’s everybody else. Not that I agreed with every single one of Ebert’s reviews, but you always understood where he was coming from.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    I get the feeling you might enjoy Alastair Reynolds’ ‘Revelation Space’ books (skip ‘Absolution Gap’ though, it’s got major story problems and feels rushed).

    Definitely not a perfect vision of the future, by any means, but certainly has some of those utopic elements you’re looking for. Though it is a bit post-Utopian, I suppose.

    Anything with the Conjoiners is very future utopia, though. They’re sort of the Borg, but not villains. Usually.

    ‘Revelation Space’ is sort of ‘The Expanse’ but several centuries later.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Very true. I think the whole “X number of Stars out of 5” thing causes more trouble than it’s worth, and that’s what almost all critic reviews are built on.

    Which leads to a critic giving Transformers a 3 out of 5 and Interstellar a 2 out of 5, because the first Transformers was better than the others, and Interstellar was mildly disappointing compared to Nolan’s other work.

    The number system just doesn’t end up meaning anything. And those same number systems are all Rotten Tomatoes/IMDB/Metacritic really have to go with.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    How would radiation cause a drought anyway? You’d have to generate a literal second sun to have that sort of effect, and lack of rain would be the absolute least of your problems in that case.

  • Bruce

    Funny you should say that when Discovery is one of the “dumbest” shows I have ever seen. The protagonist is a xenophobic, bloodthirsty, sociopath who we are somehow supposed to relate with, cheer for and that is going to take command of a starship in the Federation of Planets? These critics can’t even support their good reviews. They are all a broken record about “diversity” (ST always had diversity) and “2 women of color” on the screen at the same time and the “bechdel test”. None critique what a lunatic and how unlikable the main character is and if you mention that to any of them they paint you as a racist, which only supports my original post.

    Tell me why The Orville was “dumber” than Discovery. The opposite is actually true. The Orville has some humor people may not like but the plot arcs are smarter. Somehow jokes that miss destroy a show and Michael doesn’t?

    Are you also going to defend Ghosbuster’s 2016 as a good movie since it was fresh on Rotten Tomatoes? Please explain to us idiots how that was a good movie and why the “smart” critics were right in liking it.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Some day I’m going to make a sci-fi show where every character is a bright fucking green human (cause photosynthetic skin saves food and oxygen use) and promote it as entirely cast with “People of color”.

  • EJ

    Well people make too much out of the rottentomatoes score. A safe, crowd-pleasing movie that everybody kinda likes will score higher than a risky, polarizing one that some people love and some people hate.

    I also think it’s inevitable that critics are going to judge a movie based on a director’s previous work. I do it too. I’ll admit I liked Wolf of Wall Street less than I probably would have if it hadn’t been directed by Scorsese – it’s a perfectly fine film but when it’s made by the guy who made Goodfellas and Raging Bull I expect nothing but pure brilliance.

  • EJ

    I think John Scalzi’s “Old Man’s War” has already been optioned for TV.

  • EJ

    I’m sure it reversed the polarity of the baryonic flux, or something. Oh, wait, you want REAL science in Star Trek? LOL.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Lol, forgot about that; the green-skinned Starship Troopers.

    Well, at least I can look forward to seeing how the inch-tall Covandu play out on tv.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Better or worse than STiD Klingons?

  • Andy James

    My problem with utopian sci-fi is that it doesn’t feel realistic. Humans haven’t changed much at all from what they were 4,000 years ago. Technology has simply changed the pressures affecting them. The idea that humans will be substantially different in another 3,000 rings false to me. It’s a big reason why I preferred the universe of Firefly.

  • Uncle Dan

    I don’t really understand why people feel the need to choose one or the other. So you have two Star Trek style shows on now and neither of them are perfect. So there’s something interesting to discover from both shows and you don’t have to love or hate them.

    Is this just an Internet thing again?

  • Uncle Dan

    In general I think aggregate numbers don’t mean anything? Like the RLM guys always say: find reviewers who have your tastes and trust them. Beyond that, it’s not important to you personally.

    BvS has terrible critic ratings and high audience ratings, especially because the audience people who cared to review were people who were fans of the franchise already. So it’s hardly objective. Scores are just a metric to judge something, but not final. The only impact it might have overall is in box office performance, and as an individual, who cares about that?

  • Thanks! I will check them out. 🙂

  • EJ

    There’s also Iain M Banks’ Culture novels for modern classic SF utopia, though the plots often revolve around a seemingly perfected society going slightly wrong.

  • From an historic view I would say yes we have changed a lot. Values, ideologies, our general conduct has changed drastically over the ages. The problem is that the depiction in films and most other media is just lazy and so the impression arises that oh well we were always the same.
    From the perspective of social sciences I would argue we have changed a lot even just in the last 30 years. If you are interested in diuscussing this further I will make a more complete argument. 🙂
    Btw I have absolutely no intent of making this a debate where we try to convince each other of something. I just enjoy sharing my world view and learning about the world view of others. 🙂

  • Pierre Adriaan Du Plessis

    90% of a StarFleet Captain’s ridiculous confidence, comes from knowing subconsciously that they will appear in future episodes.

  • EJ

    “The problem is that the depiction in films and most other media is just lazy and so the impression arises that oh well we were always the same.” QFT.

    It’s easy to look superficially at, say, ancient Rome and think the Romans were just like us, just with less advanced technology. But if you go into it more deeply, in some ways, sure, their culture was similar to modern Europeans. But in many ways they were completely different from virtually any modern people.

    We were talking in another thread about how literally just two generations ago in the US homosexuality was considered a mental illness, and now gay marriage is legal. Cultural attitudes can change very quickly.

  • Andy James

    I tend to think a lot of our enlightenment is superficial and that the root of humanity remains roughly unchanged. It is also not universal even within our own society or the western ethos, which is only a small percentage of humans on the planet.

  • Indeed and in fact, especially with Rome, I was quite culture-shocked once I started actually studying their history. Roman culture was very different and very messed up in many ways^^

    But I would also argue that their political model, that of the Roman Republic up to 200BC I mean, was a more democratic society than ours.

  • Tried to watch Discovery… holy shit is the dialogue bad. I’m talking
    fan film trying to sound intelligent bad. WAY too much ‘informative
    observation’ for people who have served more then 1/2 a decade
    together.. the cutesy banter is obnoxious…will try again this weekend
    when I can have a couple shots first

  • Kaingerc

    the plot was decent and showed promise (it was dark as hell for a star trek show but so was DS9 for a lot of its episodes), but my main problem was the cinematography.

    the constant dutch angles and camera spinning combined with the neverending lens flares made me physically ill.

  • FightingMongooses

    I’m looking forward to both. Orville is fun and a sort of comfort food for me.
    Discovery might offer a satisfying story arc and some impressive visuals. We’ll see.

  • Kaingerc

    also, I tried watching the first episode of The Orville and it lost me after about five minutes.
    you have your main character being cheated on by his wife treated in a serious and dramatic way combined with a sight gag of an alien ejaculating… I didn’t have such a serious tonal whiplash in a while. (and the entire episode is filled with moments like that)

  • I mean… if Mike hadn’t shown that clip I wouldn’t have even remembered what they looked like in that movie. That film was entirely forgettable. Looking at them there, though, their faces didn’t look as fat.

  • FightingMongooses

    If only the Shenzhou had an Observation Lounge! If the bridge crew got together and talked about the situation Commander Burnham could have warned the crew about Klingon nature and they probably could’ve avoided the war.

  • Devil_Dinosaur

    Seth McFarlane saw this and wants you to join his writing staff.

  • Devil_Dinosaur

    So, you noticed that a show that costs millions of dollars to produce wants people to pay to see it somehow. You’re so edgy.

  • Brian Levine

    Isn’t that what made TOS so good: we still had Roddenberry’s hopeful view of the future, but still had interesting characters and enough action to hold people’s interest. Sorry, TNG just bored the tar out of me.

  • Brian Levine

    They do realize that in this time frame, Spock is serving on the Enterprise under Captain Pike, right?

  • Andy James

    Early men were extremely tribal and violently protective of the tribe. What we as modern people, I think, revere about ancient civilization is the move towards something better than that. I agree with both of you that societal norms and cultural trends are malleable, rapidly so on occasion. Rome is a fascinating study of something that was often better than its peers while also being utterly ruthless and brutal in ways that we can’t even fathom.

    However, it’s also worth noting that genocide is by no means a thing we’ve risen above as a species, and it’s a thing that for all of our advances in the west is still not very far from the surface.

  • alex doucet

    Mike and Rich should start a Star Trek discussion series separate from review or half in the bag.

  • langweilig

    one might reckognize the ambivalence of thoughts about doing fan service or something new (and exciting) and the outcome may be great or crap. Mike and Rich love Star Trek and might prefer a SNG like thing. I think you should regard Star Wars fans prefering fan service for terrible stuff like cr(ep.) 1 to 3. and be more understandingly (is that correct english?) with them. thank you for the show!

  • Brian Levine

    So would you say that Social Media has kicked us back a few hundred years?

  • Craig Rigby

    the crew who made std didnt…or didnt care, most likely the latter

  • Mike Magnum

    Frankly i have more problems modern day dystopian sci-fi than Utopian sci-fi. Everyone know that the world is going to Hell. Do i need to be reminded of that when i turn on the TV, Fuck No. Are the characters in TNG realistic, probably not. But they don’t need to be. They just have to be interesting. Frankly realism is overrated. If Star Trek was just crappy Space Soap Opera with narcissistic
    character constantly backstabbing each other.

    I wouldn’t like it and wouldn’t be a fan of it. And it probably be called Battlestar Galactica 2009. Even that TV programe shows how fucking Negative Dystopian Scifi has gotten. The 70’s version you had a bunch of people with differences coming together for a common goal and they mostly got along. 2009 version is about a bunch of asshole sabotaging each other. Oh and they turned into angles.

  • Mike Magnum

    I might believe that if Revenge of the Sith didn’t have a higher Rating than Return of the Jedi on RT. My Problem with critics is they are constantly changing there Standards. When Fast and the Furious movies first came out they got like 12%. Now there getting 90%. There basically the same movie every time. So what happened.

  • Mike Magnum

    Frankly i have a hard time taking Critic Seriously When Revenge of the Sith has a higher Rating than Return of the Jedi on RT. Or When Star Trek Into Darkness has a higher Rating than Wrath of Khan. My Problem with critics is they are constantly changing there Standards. When Fast and the Furious movies first came out they got like 12%. Now there getting 90%. There basically the same movie every time. So what happened.

  • Gato Incógnito

    *polite clapping*

  • Papa Figo

    Yeah, but Syfy got Old Man’s War, I’ve heard. The orgy scenes will be terrible!

  • Papa Figo

    If you are trying to create something new you shouldn’t name your show after a TV series from the 60’s. Name it “Spaceship Colisions: a Soap Opera in Space!” or something like that.

  • netcrave

    That would be awesome, would love to watch that.

  • EJ

    That’s not a bad idea, now that there’s Star Trek on TV again. I’m kind of a medium level Star Trek fan (seen all of TOS and TNG, most of DS9, never got much into Enterprise or Voyager, seen the majority but not all of the movies), but Mike and Rich clearly have a lot of passion for it and it’s fun to hear them discuss it.

  • EJ

    I’ll be honest, I love TNG but a while back I tried to rewatch it, lost interest about 3 episodes in, and started skipping to the ones I remembered being particularly good. It’s easy to forget how many episodes were resolved by Geordi spouting some meaningless technobabble. I think it came out at a time in my life where I happened to be really receptive to it, and maybe Mike is the same way.

    I do think it did a good job of portraying how the ST universe would develop between its timeframe and TOS – Starfleet is much larger and more professional, the captain of the Enterprise is less of a swashbuckler and more intellectual, etc. I wish they’d kept going into the future to see how Starfleet and society as a whole would develop, rather than fall back into prequel-itis.

  • EJ

    WRT the Orville, I kind of get the impression that Seth McFarlane is probably a big Trekkie and really wanted to do a basically serious sci-fi show, but since he is who he is, had to use the off-color humor to sell it to the network (“It’s Family Guy meets Star Trek! Millenials will love it!”). It seems like they’re already dialing the potty humor way back, and we’re only a few episodes in.

  • EJ

    OTOH look at how we fought WWII. We carpet bombed major cities! Including European ones! Full of white people! Not to mention the destruction of Japanese cities. We also later did the same to North Korea and then Laos, although we don’t like to talk about it. And this is all within living memory.

    Now, we don’t do that anymore. And the Russians got a ton of shit from the international community when they did it to Grozny. Civilian deaths in war are scrutinized much more severely, especially in the west.

  • EJ

    OTOH look at how we fought WWII. We carpet bombed major cities! Including European ones! Full of white people! Not to mention the destruction of Japanese cities. We also later did the same to North Korea and then Laos, although we don’t like to talk about it. And this is all within living memory.

    Now, we don’t do that anymore. And the Russians got a ton of shit from the international community when they did it to Grozny. Civilian deaths in war are scrutinized much more severely, especially in the west.

  • Mike Magnum

    Seth McFarland isnt a great actor. But he dose a decent enough job in the more serious scenes. And ill say it. The Thrid Episode is pretty good. As for is the show getting a positive reaction from Fans. Because people are desperate for Classic Trek. Who the hell fault is that. It wouldn’t be greedy assholes who are trying to milk a dead cow for everything its got.

  • EJ

    2 million years is the estimate I’ve heard for a spacefaring civilization to colonize the whole galaxy (It’s something people interested in the Fermi Paradox have theorized extensively about, for obvious reasons). An eyeblink in the history of the galaxy, but a loooooooong time after TOS. I wouldn’t mind a far-future extrapolation of Star Trek, but if you did it well it would probably be too weird for TV.

    I kind of have a knee jerk reaction to the “now we’re going to a whole new GALAXY” genre of sequel. It pissed me off when Stargate did it. I mean I don’t expect much scientific accuracy from Star Trek, but dood the Milky Way is REALLY BIG and has a lot of stuff in it. You’re not going to exhaust its resources in a few thousand years. How about they explore the galactic core with its giant black hole? Or a globular cluster with all its ancient stars packed so close together they collide from time to time?

  • EJ

    Did Trek fans not like Babylon 5? Trek fans I know were pretty into it. I know I was.

    I think it actually had an advantage in having its roots in Trek, but not having to be bound by the expectations of an actual Trek show.

  • EJ

    Well, the founding fathers intended American democracy to last, so they scrutinized previous, failed democracies like Greece and Rome to try to figure out what went wrong. That’s where a lot of the limits on American democracy come from. Were they right? We’ll see!

  • Colby Grimes

    Mike, Rich. I highly recommend checking out The Orville. The feel is between TOS and TNG with a humor that both shows were lacking. My only criticism is that there may be a little too much humor for a “star trek” show, but only a little. If you can handle maybe two annoyingly anachronistic jokes per episode, you’ll be treated to a show that takes itself seriously, with 9/10 set design, 9/10 sound design, 8/10 writing/dialogue. And like you guys said in this review, they created “a world I’d want to live in.” Self-contained adventures dealing with contemporary themes, with an adequate but not bloated budget that utilizes excellent special effects without even coming close to relying on them. Story is king in The Orville.

  • EJ

    First Jordan Peele makes a genuinely great horror flick, and now Seth McFarlane seems to be on his way to turning out a really good sci-fi show? Truly, we live in interesting times.

  • Andy James

    I don’t think you and I disagree. It seems to me that Europe and to some extent the US and Canada had tricked themselves over the course of the 17th to 19th centuries into thinking that they had civilized war. The American Civil War hinted at what was coming in a modern war, but it was relatively small and remote to Europe. World War I put the lie to any idea that war could be civilized, and World War II drove the point fully home. I think it’s why European elites are so invested in the idea of unification even with all of its problems. That is a prime example of a rapid cultural change. And we still don’t know yet what the long term ramifications will be, especially if the EU does collapse at some point.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    What’s the over-under on them reviewing Kingsman 2 as their next video update?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    William Shatner: You know, before I answer any more questions
    there’s something I wanted to say. Having received all your letters
    over the years, and I’ve spoken to many of you, and some of you have
    traveled… y’know… hundreds of miles to be here, I’d just like to
    say… GET A LIFE, will you people? I mean, for crying out loud, it’s
    just a TV show! I mean, look at you, look at the way you’re dressed!
    You’ve turned an enjoyable little job, that I did as a lark for a few
    years, into a COLOSSAL WASTE OF TIME!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    He won it from Josh in a knife fight.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Everything went downhill when the younguns started listenin’ to that damn Ragtime music and started drivin’ those new-fangled horseless carriages. I miss the good ole days when you could buy morphine over the counter at your local drug dispensary and our foreign policy was a combination of F Troop and Teddy Roosevelt’s violent mood swings.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Early men were extremely tribal and violently protective of the tribe.”

    Kind of like those troglodytes with their tiki torches marching around their stone idols in Charlottesville. Progress is an illusion.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    — Men on Film

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Every scene is so dense.”

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Not the Fahrenheit timeline?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Get used to disappointment.” — Life

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Makes me yearn for the absolutist tyranny of a Hynerian Dominar. Plus they were small and cuddly.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Boys? Are you 900 years old? Mike is about Abe Vigoda’s age by now.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    After the 2016 election, that’s looking more and more promising.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    They are Them, but They aren’t Us. Is you is or is you ain’t?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I found the Amy and Rory stuff emotionally exhausting.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I enjoyed Kira. She had pep.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I didn’t know nerds had any taste? I thought it was merely brand loyalty masquerading as a herd instinct?

    **goes back to watching Madame Secretary**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Like you goading people and acting like a short-attention span edgelord of memes?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    It needs some amendments. Like 10 of them.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Are you a 98 pound weakling of a developing nation? Get USAID so you can show that Commie bully whose boss. Then you can get the girl and billions in military hardware. Contact your local State Department/CIA franchise for more details. Tell ’em Allen Dulles sent you! Free epaulets with every $5 billion dollars spent.”

  • Kawaii as Fuck

    They didn’t review the first movie, did they?

  • DanceOfBirther

    They could call it Star Treks and see how fast CBS can make a DMCA complaint.

  • Movie Wan Kenovie

    And this is why the folks at RLM are like a drop of common sense in an ocean of insanity.

  • Movie Wan Kenovie

    Tiki torches! How multicultural!

  • Movie Wan Kenovie

    Don’t talk to them, frankelee. Don’t encourage them!

  • Movie Wan Kenovie

    Seems like Mike should be the next Doctor then.

  • Movie Wan Kenovie

    Seems like Mike should be the next Doctor then.

  • I have to disagree I found the show more interesting than the movies. I think season 3 for me is when the storytelling almost completely halted for more visual tripout sequences – and for certain I could see people growing tired of that – but I really liked its somewhat fantastical hyperbolization of psychology and how he worked that into the show through use of visual metaphor. I’m not calling it “deep” or “high art” but I liked it a lot. The idea that people’s minds were often the point of contention and conflict – a battleground of sorts for which characters played a lethal tug of war. But that’s why I call it “fantastical” – human minds probably aren’t quite that easily susceptible to things like that.

  • I have to disagree I found the show more interesting than the movies. I think season 3 for me is when the storytelling almost completely halted for more visual tripout sequences – and for certain I could see people growing tired of that – but I really liked its somewhat fantastical hyperbolization of psychology and how he worked that into the show through use of visual metaphor. I’m not calling it “deep” or “high art” but I liked it a lot. The idea that people’s minds were often the point of contention and conflict – a battleground of sorts for which characters played a lethal tug of war – was a neat concept to me that came with its own rulebook and the way it was orchestrated made it seem like it had a in-universe logic to it. But that’s why I call it “fantastical” – human minds probably aren’t quite that easily susceptible to things like that. Anyway I wouldn’t call Hannibal “quirky” – too brooding if anything. Dead Like Me was quirky – that show wasn’t for me. So yeah my only experience with Fuller I think is Hannibal.

  • ChildofLight

    Ferengis are cool! What goes under all the time is that women actually are in power in the Ferengi society. Yes there is still the “no cloth” rule but if women are in charge they decided that ultimatly. And maybe its the other way around. That guys are forbid to run around naked (so the women will be not distracted all the time). It’s an alien race ultimatly and maybe they don’t really need protection from the environment and clothes are more of a cultural thing.

  • Uncle Dan

    I remember a distinct competition between B5 and DS9 because of their similar premises and years they aired: captains on a space station dealing with big challenges of war and messiah-ness. I think some B5 fans still accuse DS9 of stealing the idea and people used to debate endlessly over which was better.

    I mean, it was stupid that people thought they had to choose, but that’s just people. They somehow seem to feel that you have to choose between B5 and DS9, or Marvel and DC, or Orville and Discovery.

  • Uncle Dan

    No they didn’t. I think they don’t really care, which is surprising considering they usually review big budget action movies.

  • Uncle Dan

    I’ve gotten to the third episode, and I really do like the story and themes being explored.

    But man, every attempt at humour is just non-medy for me, it literally makes me frown. It’s distracting because I’ll be really engaged with the story and drama but then they try to be funny with McFarlane’s sense of humour. Surprisingly, or unsurprisingly, half the time it’s a pop culture reference despite being a sci-fi show. I mean come on.

  • The thing is a Republic and a Democracy are not the same thing. Actually they are very different. Athens was a Democracy, Rome a Republic. If the founding fathers had intended to create a Democracy they would have made the United States a democracy rather than a Republic, would they not? 🙂

    I know for many people this sounds like arguing semantics, but I think it is very important for us to understand this difference, and why we all live in Republics rather than Democracies.

  • Uncle Dan

    I was skeptical at first, because of stuff like that. Honestly as well, every attempt at humour is an embarrassing tonal shift for me and takes me out of the story.

    That said, the stories are pretty good. People raving about the third episode on here made me give it a fair shot and it’s actually really good, despite the Beyoncé reference.

  • Uncle Dan

    I think the problem is judging all reviewers as one big block? They’re individuals with their own opinions. Find the ones you trust and go from there.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Female Ferengi aren’t in power, they’re naked sex slaves primarily. Quark’s mother was the odd one out by basically being a Ferengi feminist leader, wearing clothing and eventually starting a relationship with Grand Nagus Zek. It’s implied that she’s the ‘power behind the throne’, giving Zek economic and financial advice.

    But female Ferengi as a group are by no measure actually in power in their society. We’ve just only ever seen Quark’s unusual mother (and once Quark changed sex as well); for nudity reasons we really don’t get to see female Ferengi society as a group. Ferengi females are still not allowed to wear clothing or make profit, though by the end of the series Zek may have introduced some minor labor rights to females (I don’t think it’s ever said precisely what he’s done).

  • ChildofLight

    oh…ok. I vote up and take my leave, Sir.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Hope that didn’t come off as too aggressive or anything, wasn’t meant to be. I just have sadly spent far too much time watching Trek over the years… I don’t even particularly like it all that much.

    But I know what I know, and I know random trivia about Ferengi. 😉

  • ChildofLight

    no no. its not that. its just that I completly got that fact wrong. If anything then my “Sir” is missleading. Should have avoided that. And now…time to watch some DS9. 😉

  • ChildofLight

    no no. its not that. its just that I completly got that fact wrong. If anything then my “Sir” is missleading. Should have avoided that. And now…time to watch some DS9. 😉

  • DRP103

    Star Trek Axanar is a boring court room drama set in 2017.

  • I agree that the Ferengis are stupidly cartoonish in DS9. I talk to so many people though who say they’re their favorites – I don’t get it. When I watch an episode revolving around Quark and his brother I feel like I’m watching a Looney Toons episode.

  • Okay the way everyone keeps explaining this show complete with “potty humor” though – sounds more like a Red Dwarf than a Star Trek.

  • Also Seth Rogan helped produce the Preacher show – that was an unexpected credit.

  • I think the big problem now is – and I think Mike brought this up – they have now opened this show with a completely action-oriented pilot – so right off the bat if it succeeds I’m guessing that’s due to new fans, not old, so they will continue along the path they have started – and if it doesn’t succeed then they will probably just cancel it rather than completely changing the tone/pacing of it. They’ll say “people don’t like Star Trek anymore!” and that’ll be the end of it. If they had split it right down the middle they could have options. Ontop of this if no one likes the main character – has a tv show that wasn’t a sitcom ever completely changed main characters early on? I suppose Babylon 5 did it by changing captains after the first season – even in that though it was jarring and it took me time to warm up to Sheridan.

  • Bleurgh

    Kingsman movies aren’t worth caring about.

  • Harry Loomer-Young

    I know RLM are not racists, in the hateful/extremely negative since. However, I can’t help but notice that black characters are more prone to be labeled unnecessary, unlikable, underwritten, or not relatable. (i.e. mike, mike and winston)

  • Bleurgh

    The new fast and the furious movies are way better than the early turds in the franchise. They stopped taking themselves seriously and dropped the pretenders that these were events which could conceivable happen in reality. That fixed the franchise.

  • EJ

    Yeah they really did get better when they went full on gonzo.

  • Patrick

    The humor makes it a bit like SG-1. The last ep had me thinking a lot about SG-1.

  • Labeled by them or labeled by the writers? Maybe what their attempt at objective analysis indicates is that a lot of writers have very limited range when it comes to writing characters, especially ones from backgrounds which are unfamiliar to them.

  • Robotpals

    The people who made this show have no idea from Star Trek. They were touting Walking Dead lady as the first black lead of a Star Trek series. Granted, most of these people were in diapers during Avery Brooks’ time, but still, learn some history.

  • EJ

    Mike’s actually only 28. Living in Milwaukee ages a person.

  • EJ

    Well I suppose people are going to have their favorite (I preferred B5 myself), but I don’t remember people thinking they had to choose one or the other. I could be wrong.

    I guess it helps that I’ve never really known or cared to find out much about the behind the scenes politics – all I know is B5 was being developed as a Star Trek show, and then it wasn’t.

  • Trent

    You can get away with a lot in Star Trek , but if your trying to say this is prior to TOS How in the hell can you go with Interactive real time holo-gams ? Archer and Kirk had to wait days for a response from the home office now prior to Kirk you can dial up Vulcan and Speak to Sarek in real time ? What do you need a communications Officer for anymore ? Uhura you have been replaced by instant automation .!
    By the way no comment on the dutch angles ? The camera did stop tilting for 5 seconds!

  • Trent

    You can get away with a lot in Star Trek , but if your trying to say this is prior to TOS How in the hell can you go with Interactive real time holo-gams ? Archer and Kirk had to wait days for a response from the home office now prior to Kirk you can dial up Vulcan and Speak to Sarek in real time ? What do you need a communications Officer for anymore ? Uhura you have been replaced by instant automation .!
    By the way no comment on the dutch angles ? The camera didn’t stop tilting for 5 seconds!

  • Uncle Dan

    They like Winston, they just recognised that he’s not written to be useful at all to the plot of Ghostbusters 2. That’s not their fault, but the writers and so on. The RLM guys often are happy to celebrate black characters who are written well. It just doesn’t happen often enough, which is the real shame.

  • Uncle Dan

    Everyone loved the first one. I thought it was pretty fun at best, but not great by any means. It seemed like it wanted to tell two or three stories all at once and they didn’t really mesh together that well. But fun action and set pieces and it was pretty audacious, so yeah, fun, but not much more than that.

  • EJ

    Yeah I get that you can’t have panels full of knobs and blinkenlights like in TOS and have people believe it’s the future anymore, but the holograms are completely unnecessary.

  • Uncle Dan

    I dunno, the Ferengi got more fleshed out in DS9 than TNG, for me. As recurring characters they got more depth culturally too. Their perspective got compared to the Federation’s high minded altruism and that made for interesting conflict.

    That one war episode where Quark and Nog are stuck in a siege was fantastic.

  • I thought that got shitcanned?

  • While I agree they were more fleshed out (I only remember them appearing a couple of times as sort of untrustworthy traders/scavengers/gamblers in TNG), I don’t particularly like the way they were fleshed out. I don’t like the “comedy” aspect to it. Like their overlord guy who is just old and gross and sounds like an evil goblin king – ehhhhhh. It’s just kind of reaching for me. I “get” what it’s saying but I think it’s a little heavy-handed.

  • Wow I just watched this pilot and Rich is so right the main character is like a violent, paranoid idiot. She’s basically the exact same as the Klingon antagonist cause they’re both saying “let’s fight the other for no reason at all.”

  • Uncle Dan

    I wonder if they’ll go somewhere interesting with her. It’s definitely a bad way to introduce her, though. Maybe the pilot should have actually been the pilot, like Rich said, and this story shown in flashbacks to explain why she is how she is.

  • EJ

    “Twisted Sister/Gwar/Siegfried and Roy flamboyant Mardi Gras get-ups” – this makes their look sound way more fun than it actually was.

  • Craig Rigby

    one of the negative discovery, orville comparisons had this to say
    “Where The Orville chooses to primarily center its story on a straight
    white male, Discovery has women of color and LGBT characters among its
    ranks.”
    and a bunch of sites were super salty about its really good 3rd episode, especially calling it a sex change cause apparently thats not pc now. orvilles dont nothing but put a smile on my face, you can tell mcfarlanes a trekkie and hes paying serious homage to the classics. lets just hope he doesnt fall back on the lame broken holodeck episode theme any time soon.

  • itbegins2005

    Sooooo I’m gonna go out on a limb here and propose that Mike and Rich are kind of missing the point of the series.

    They keep saying that it’s not Star Trek— that it doesn’t have the optimism and the bright outlook of the original series and its spin-offs. I agree, to an extent. But it seems pretty clear that the point of the show is about achieving that positive future– striving for it, in spite of a world that’s not perfect, clear-cut, or black-and-white. It’s about how we GET there.

    To wit: the Klingons aren’t just crazy wacko nutjobs who attack the Federation because they’re crazy. They’re afraid of the Federation robbing them of their cultural identity– of being conquered an inch at a time. You can draw a parallel to any NUMBER of historical examples from this: Islamic extremism, the alt-right, whatever. The point is, the head Klingon T’Kuvma taps into some very real fears and discontent from his followers, and uses it as a rallying cry to focus the might of the Empire against a single foe: the Federation.

    The problem is, the Federation doesn’t understand the Klingons well enough to recognize that their entreaties to peace are dangerous. Captain Georgiou and the admiral, while well intentioned and driven by Starfleet’s optimistic principles, don’t have the insight into Klingon cultural identity (nor the fears that lay beneath them) to get through to the heads of the Klingon houses; as a result, their efforts to establish diplomatic relations end disasterously. They’re idealistic, but not pragmatic enough to be effective.

    Michael, on the other hand, DOES understand quite a bit about Klingon culture, and both of her suggestions are actually the RIGHT ones to make in each circumstance… but Michael is undermined by her own ingrained fears and hatred of the Klingons (emotions that, as a human raised by Vulcans, she has very little skill in coping with once they become overwhelming). She panics and mutinies when she recommends the captain fire on the Klingons; then she kills T’Kuvma in a rage when Georgiou is killed. She’s conditioned to see the Klingons as the “bad guys” because they hurt her in the past… kinda like how Islamophobia skyrocketed in the wake of 9/11, or how Japanese-Americans were interred after Pearl Harbor. Fear breeds overreaction.

    So you have an idealistic-yet-ineffectual Starfleet, a pragmatic lead blinded by racial and cultural prejudice, and an antagonist race driven by all-too-human fears. The central conflict is entirely built around a lack of understanding, the difficulty in communicating with people who think differently than you do, and how fear is a big part of that. And why would you build a show around those kind of conflicts?

    To resolve them, of course.

  • itbegins2005

    Sooooo I’m gonna go out on a limb here and propose that Mike and Rich are kind of missing the point of the series.

    They keep saying that it’s not Star Trek— that it doesn’t have the optimism and the bright outlook of the original series and its spin-offs. I agree, to an extent. But it seems pretty clear that the point of the show is about achieving that positive future– striving for it, in spite of a world that’s not perfect, clear-cut, or black-and-white. It’s about how we GET there.

    To wit: the Klingons aren’t just crazy wacko nutjobs who attack the Federation because they’re crazy. They’re afraid of the Federation robbing them of their cultural identity– of being conquered an inch at a time. You can draw a parallel to any NUMBER of historical examples from this: Islamic extremism, the alt-right, whatever. The point is, the head Klingon T’Kuvma taps into some very real fears and discontent from his followers, and uses it as a rallying cry to focus the might of the Empire against a single foe: the Federation.

    The problem is, the Federation doesn’t understand the Klingons well enough to recognize that their entreaties to peace are dangerous. Captain Georgiou and the admiral, while well intentioned and driven by Starfleet’s optimistic principles, don’t have the insight into Klingon cultural identity (nor the fears that lay beneath them) to get through to the heads of the Klingon houses; as a result, their efforts to establish diplomatic relations end disasterously. They’re idealistic, but not pragmatic enough to be effective.

    Michael, on the other hand, DOES understand quite a bit about Klingon culture, and both of her suggestions are actually the RIGHT ones to make in each circumstance… but Michael is undermined by her own ingrained fears and hatred of the Klingons (emotions that, as a human raised by Vulcans, she has very little skill in coping with once they become overwhelming). She panics and mutinies when she recommends the captain fire on the Klingons; then she kills T’Kuvma in a rage when Georgiou is killed. She’s conditioned to see the Klingons as the “bad guys” because they hurt her in the past… kinda like how Islamophobia skyrocketed in the wake of 9/11, or how Japanese-Americans were interred after Pearl Harbor. Fear breeds overreaction.

    So you have an idealistic-yet-ineffectual Starfleet, a pragmatic lead blinded by racial and cultural prejudice, and an antagonist race driven by all-too-human fears. The central conflict is entirely built around a lack of understanding, the difficulty in communicating with people who think differently than you do, and how fear is a big part of that. And why would you build a show around those kind of conflicts?

    … To resolve them, of course.

    The central point of Star Trek is that it’s a world where we accept people for their differences, embrace various different cultures, and learn to solve our problems by effectively communicating. These things are not easy to do– on a cultural level OR a personal one. So it seems to me that Star Trek Discovery is pretty much all about how the Federation came to that place of peaceful, effective understanding, illustrated through a conflict with their most prominent antagonists. It’s the thematic origin story of Star Trek.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Michael Keaton as Batman? It’s going to be terrible!

    Heath Ledger as The Joker? It’s going to be terrible!

    The first episodes of It’s Always Sunny In Philadelphia weren’t funny at all. I’m not going to watch any more!

    **repeat until the heat death of the Universe**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    A main character acting like a violent, paranoid idiot is described as “acting presidential.” At least these days.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Panels full of knobs? I guess that’s one way to describe San Diego Comicon.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “I notice that black characters are unnecessary, unlikable, underwritten, or not relatable.” — Steve Bannon’s review of Luke Cage.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “But keeping slavery and using the Electoral College to pick the President are still good ideas, right?” — The Founding Fathers

  • Pop Culture Reference

    YouTube is a den of scum and villainy.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Michael Burnham is an incompetent, bloodthirsty, racist/xenophobic, sociopath who has no place on a Starfleet vessel.”

    If I change the words that aren’t adjectives, I get a topical political joke!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Weren’t the Xenomorphs designed by HR Puffyface?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Too bad Harvey Kurtzman is dead.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Art Kumbalek is actually only 7 years old. He got Benjamin Button Syndrome at the Uptowner tavern/charm school.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Pretty soon your posts gets randomly copied and then chaos ensues.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    So that means Klingons are not the type to buy IKEA furniture?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    *hand doing jerk-off motion*

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Not sure what was worse, Vietnam or the Oliver Stone movies they inspired?

  • Gato Incógnito

    Which is pretty impressive, considering Devil Dinosaur’s arms are so short and stubby.

  • RLMkeepitup

    these franchises and their out in space ideas.

  • ChildofLight

    Dead Space

  • ChildofLight

    more like Dead Space

  • Thanatos

    I think the fact is critics really really REALLY do not like Seth Macfarlane, and the scores you see are a result of that. Personally I think Macfarlane inserting himself into the show was a horrible mistake, because it just draws unneeded attention to him.

  • Thanatos

    Yeah they could call it like “The Trekkers” or “The Trek Squad” or

    “The Nerd Crew”

  • Bleurgh

    The first few episodes of any series are often a bad indication of whether the series will be any good, but not always. Breaking Bad and Community for example, bth came out of the gate really strong.

  • Bleurgh

    The first few episodes of any series are often a bad indication of whether the series will be any good, but not always. Breaking Bad and Community for example, bth came out of the gate really strong.

  • Mike Magnum

    I don’t know about that. From my understanding the Klingons are more or less a allegory for modern day White Supremacy. Which would be fine for a episode. But for an entire season? I just prefer my Star Trek like i prefer my Superman. Hopeful and Smiling. Frankly since 911 it feels like every TV Show has to reminding me how much life sucks. Maybe its time people grew out of that. Maybe that the reason people like those cheesy formulaic Marvel movies. Because they walk out of that. And there like Wow that actually fun and i didn’t have think about every horrible thing that happening in the world.

  • John Lesku

    Discovery is set in 2256. Spock joined the Enterprise in 2256. I’m sure we will see the Enterprise under Captain Pike in Discovery.

  • Spoiled Ants

    Well, as someone who never was much into Star Trek, I had no intention to watch the new show. But if they go the route that you are suggesting, then it would get me actually interested in watching it.

  • Spoiled Ants

    I disagree a little bit. I’m not a big fan of movies that just are depressing without any deeper insight in themes or human psyche, which all of the 9/11 films I watched are guilty from. But the Marvel Films I actually start to genuinely dislike because of similar reasons: their Black & White mentality and disinterest in exploring themes.
    I get that people want to have a good time in cinema. I just find it weird that people find it uplifting to watch those Marvel Films where it’s always the same old “leveling a whole city” and “solve the problem by punching/killing a weird looking dude”.

    I think there’s room for nuance and have an entertaining story at the same time and even inject a little bit of humor. The early seasons of Game of Thrones had that in spades, so does The Wire, Generation Kill and many other series. I certainly prefer watching the almost 4hour long version of Lawrence from Arabia than anymore of that empty fluff like Guardians of the Galaxy or Stranger Things.

  • Uncle Dan

    I like this idea, and I’m hopeful that it will become a journey kind of story… but it sounds a bit familiar. People who defended Man of Steel used to talk about how Superman’s sense of morality is earned by the traumatic experience of killing Zod. It’s clearly not something they ever felt the need to revisit, however, so that defense is ludicrous.

    So really, we’ll see. I hope Starfleet and Burnham do grow, as you say, but we’ll see.

  • Uncle Dan

    Do we know if the entire show is going to be about Klingons? I mean, since the conflict with the Klingons doesn’t actually get resolved until Star Trek 6, this could technically just be a character establishing experience for Burnham, and then the USS Discovery can go on and encounter other situations where her perspective is useful and she also learns to refine it.

  • Papa Figo

    Didn’t John Carpenter wanted to do Dead Space? He is enough of a hack to make it a cheezy horror franchise. We could get a sfi-fi slasher to bury this crappy Alien revival once and for all.

  • Papa Figo

    Didn’t John Carpenter wanted to do Dead Space? He is enough of a hack to make it a cheezy horror franchise. We could get a sfi-fi slasher to bury this crappy Alien revival once and for all.

  • Papa Figo

    A pilot is not a good indicator, but a first episode should be. The first episode gets more attention and budget, if it fails it is unlikely the show will get any better. And to soldier on hoping that it will be worth watching someday sounds too masochistic to me.

  • Papa Figo

    I got an anakin atack of the clones vibe from her. Maybe the dark side is clouding her mind.

  • Bleurgh

    I got about 20 episodes into Agents of SHIELD before I realised I was wasting valuable hours of my life.

  • Papa Figo

    Then perhaps you can help me, I mean, a friend of mine. If one were to get a gimp suit, should he choose leather or vinyl?

  • Papa Figo

    Dutch angles as I am familiar with are stationary. These are rotating cameras. I guess they wanted to creat a sense of unbalance, since there is no up or down in space. I am not sure it worked, but I did feel sick watching it.

  • EJ

    I mean, if you have the opportunity to show Bryan Cranston in the middle of the desert in his tighty whiteys, you definitely should.

  • Bleurgh

    Alright I admit I was skeptical, but I did watch and like the third episode of The Orville and felt it effectively captured the kind of ethical dilemma that Star Trek is all about, even if the show blows, specifically much of the “humour’.

  • Terriosaurus Hex

    As an anonymous commenter with no real background on the series, who always appreciated what Star Trek was on a theoretical level, yet couldn’t quite gel with the execution, I like the flawed character approach and style of this, but do agree some of that dialogue is a bit off and the action feels a bit straight out the rulebook of “first scene of story must grip viewer/reader with excitement to get hooks in for the impatient.” Hopefully just growing pains of a new series with insecurities on how to please the variety of interested viewers enough to keep the show alive.

    I can’t bring myself to even try the Orville. Over the years, I have grown only contempt for MacFarlane’s attempt at humour and references. This is from somebody who used to watch family guy religiously.

  • Uncle Dan

    There was noticeably less of that humour in the third and fourth episodes. Hopefully they just dial it back altogether soon.

  • Uncle Dan

    There was noticeably less of that humour in the third and fourth episodes. Hopefully they just dial it back altogether soon.

  • Uncle Dan

    Firefly is a good counter example of that. If you watched it on TV when it originally aired it was out of order and dropped you into the world with whirlwind explanation, and a much lighter tone than the pilot was aiming for.

    Or hell, I really don’t like the pilot/first episode of Rick and Morty, but after the second episode it really ramps up the quality.

    Considering the first two episodes of STD are basically one pilot, the third episode is a more appropriate gauge of what the show will be about.

  • itbegins2005

    Yeah, I can definitely understand that little caveat, but you do have to remember that Snyder had Superman kill Zod as the climax of his two-hour movie (with no thematic build-up and no time devoted to the repercussions of his actions)… whereas Michael kills T’Kuvma in the first two hours of a twenty hour television season. These two episodes are clearly the inciting incident of this particular story, rather than the payoff– so it would take some SERIOUSLY stupid writers to let these thematic threads drop in the end.

    … And yes, while the writers room does include such luminary dipsh*ts as Akiva Goldsman and Alex Kurtzman (*shudder*), the season’s main storyline was developed by Bryan Fuller. Considering the guy’s track record, I’m thinking this show’s headed in the right direction.

  • Trent

    Very disorientating , I was desperate for an establishing shot so I could figure out the bridge layout and who was stationed where ,it also gave me a headache

  • or “Space: Space in Space!”

  • I disagree I think knobs and buttons are actually more functional in real life and therefore would be on a space ship. In a tense situation you need to maximize your efficiency and the best way to do that is to be able to feel what you’re pressing, like a keyboard. No – no I don’t want everything in the future to be an ipad. There’s nothing wrong with real physical buttons, they just have to make sure their sets don’t look like cardboard with christmas lights.

  • I disagree I think knobs and buttons are actually more functional in real life and therefore would be on a space ship. In a tense situation you need to maximize your efficiency and the best way to do that is to be able to feel what you’re pressing, like a keyboard. No – no I don’t want everything in the future to be an ipad. There’s nothing wrong with real physical buttons, they just have to make sure their sets don’t look like cardboard with christmas lights. The only thing I could see being useful is touching the screen to change the context the buttons apply to, so people don’t need a mouse. If you have to directly look at EVERY single thing you press because it’s all located on a flat, featureless surface, I can almost guarantee you that you’re going to fuck up at some point. “Oh shit I THOUGHT I pressed the chaff button but I guess I missed it and hit the landing lights”

  • 9/11 Jumper Guy

    Move over Star Wars we have a new king in town… no wait the opposite. Since 2013 when Star Trek Wrath Of Kahn Vol 2 came out I’ve been ashamed of calling my self a Star Trek fan, now it’s even worse. Thanks Rick Berman.

  • EJ

    I suppose that’s a fair point, I mean modern aircraft and spacecraft cockpits still have a lot of knobs and switches.

  • Jack Smith

    I have to say that TV bores me to death. Most of the shows people rave about seem to be about Assholes,being Assholes and doing Asshole related things. If i have to watch something about Assholes. Then i rather spend two hours watching it than 90 hours. I mean i don’t need constant negativity in my life. I much rather watch a documentary and actually learn something.

  • ChildofLight

    maybe Holderlin was right

  • EJ

    Give the Orville a shot. I despise Family Guy as well, but McFarlane has something good going here.

  • EJ

    Isn’t Patton Oswalt involved with the Expanse somehow? Or is he just a huge fan of it?

  • MonkeyKing1969

    I think the show about all these young officer brought up in a utopia. On Earth, Vulcan, and these other planets of the Federation there is little crime, little conflict, nearly zero poverty. So the young officers are like any ‘suburbanites’ are a secretly thrilled by conflict and eager to roll their eyes at peace.

    SO DO THAT for half the first season episodes. Then use the repst of teh episodes to say, “Oh YOU though crime was sexy?” This is what crime looks like, this is what a species grinding vice looks like and now you are down in teh muck. “Oh, you young officers thought lack of political intrigue or conflict was boring try to solve this try to find the thrill of the politic of ethnic and cultural cleansing and now you are being cleansed too. “Oh, war seems fun….war is people you love or respect dying for no good reason…this is what it is like to watch you friend’s ship blow up near you – not glory – just emptiness”

    In this way you can say, “Yes, the Federation is hopeful and those worlds have peace!” But what do you do against stupid violence, stupid crime, and stupid conflict that others experience? And, how do you thread the needle of a Prime directive when the Federation IS part of the natural evolution of their side of the Galaxy. When is it natural to interfere with planets 100 light years away? What is the point at which the rest of the galaxy’s evolution is linked with the Federation’s evolution?

    What is season 2? Well what happens when the young officers come back? How do they deal with their peers who have not live or seen conflict. How do these young officers deal with being disgusted that people of the Federation are so bored with peace and safety? That there is conflict while being hopeful.

  • EJ

    How much does it cost to get our ruling Generallisimo a sweet hat with lots of gold braid?

  • EJ

    “The show was originally called ‘Going to Other Planets’ but the network made us change it to ‘Wormhole X-treme!'”

  • Iggy

    Enterprise doomed itself in the planning stage: When they decided to base its core on a time-travel theme… Stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid stupid…

    Time-travel is lucky if it holds up for 1 30-minute episode. It takes great care to make it work for a full-length film (and often falls apart)…

    Why oh why attempt it over the span of a whole series…? Dumbasses…

  • Iggy

    I’ve been wanting them to go indepth on Enterprise. There was so much potential in that show that went to waste…

  • Yuhaddabia “Big Shot” Dijna

    SPACE COP: THE SERIES

  • Yuhaddabia “Big Shot” Dijna

    SPACE COP: THE SERIES

  • That show had a time travel theme? I wanna say I gave up halfway through the first season and I don’t remember anything about that – then again I hardly remember anything about the show. I was reminded recently that they tried to “canonize” the evolution of the Klingon look by saying that their entire population contracted some sort of disease that makes their bones grow further? But if that wasn’t stupid enough – doesn’t it take place before TOS? Or does this dumb time travel plot somehow fuck with that?

  • The thing is if people really have to be apologetic for “humor” (emphasizing those quotation marks) in a show that is otherwise a Space Opera, that sounds like a jarring tonal inconsistency to me and I’ve already lost interest. Furthermore with the added elaboration that it’s “potty humor” sounds like stupid childish bullshit and should be left in the dust with the rest of McFarlane’s failed attempts at anything other than Family Guy. Like I’m not going to be interested because it’s “half Star Trek” and the other half is something I have to ignore completely to get any enjoyment out of it.

  • STD gave me space AIDS.

  • Robotpals

    Rich is absolutely right that DS9 held a light on the values of Roddenberry’s “ideal” society of the 24th century, and the Ferengi usually ended up with the last word. One time Jake Sisko wanted to use his Ferengi buddy Nog’s latinum to buy his dad a present. When asked why Hu-mons don’t have any money, Jake launched into a high-sounding (and self-righteous) explanation about how they have abandoned money, and everyone has everything they need and spend their time improving themselves. Then Nog said, “Well, if you don’t need money, then you don’t need MINE.” Let’s face it, without trade, there is no reason for humans to interact with any cultures other than for war.

  • Iggy

    Temporal Cold War —- That doesn’t ring any bells?

  • Iggy

    The arch of the show was based on a Temporal Cold War in which an advanced future species was conditioning a large potion space to make it suitable for colonization by manipulating multiple “timelines”/multiverses….

    I stuck with the show because I really liked the cast and production value put into the show — but I got really POed when it became clear how much they’d made time manipulation a core of it.

    I liked the prequel nature of it. George Lucas didn’t destroy the concept of prequels altogether…

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Meanwhile Robopublicans fail in their 7536th consecutive attempt to repeal Spacebamacare.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I detect hostility.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Every scene is so dense.”

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I thought The Orville was a sex move one makes after eating the popcorn made in the whisper quiet Death Star Popcorn Popper / Fire Hazard.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    When do they start wearing Sherlock Holmes and cowboy costumes? I missed those Star Trek episodes, since they were steeped in gravitas.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Holderin Caulfield? He was a phoney.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I didn’t see that Malcolm in the Middle episode.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    As long as Agent May is kicking ass and taking names, I’ll be satisfied.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Star Trek may have been bad, but it never carried the burden of suckitude like Star Wars with those damn Prequels.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    The fabled Star Trek / Law and Order crossover?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Define “everyone.” Kingsman sounds like James Bond gone through the Boondock Saints grinder.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    The Red Dwarf “Polymorph” cannot be topped by any other comedy. Also, what other sci fi series would go after Jane Austen with a T-72 tank?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    He’ll always be TV’s Son of TV’s Frank to me.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Wormhole X-treme sounds like a crash diet plan I don’t want to try.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Or call it Trekking Shots. Because, ya know, puns.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Spock’s a Piker?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I got the Prequel-itis and Retconny Blues.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Trying to sound clever bad or Mark Gatiss trying to sound clever bad?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “We’re an island. Surrounded by water. Sharks are scary. Me talk pretty some day.” — Trump (actual quote)

  • Pop Culture Reference

    The early turd gets the … no wait, that doesn’t work at all!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    The Founding Fathers thought the same thing. That’s why they invented the Electoral College.
    **slide whistle**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    No Grey Men in your series! Racist!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Inconsistent as all fuck” — Amazon 4-word review of The Trump Presidency.

  • Nah that is just horrible writing and a complete lack of imagination. That epsiode and the exchange actually made me stop watching that show. If you cannot imagine people who have lived in a different society for generations and have values different from your own you really shouldn’t write sci-fi but rather stick to soaps and sitcoms imho 🙂

    Also it means you know nothing of human history, which is quite sad but again not the ideal position to be in to write an episode for a very prolific sci-fi series.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    ST:MEBNTGO: the fresh-maker!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    And Rich could be his Companion. And Jay could be K-9!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    He’s very presidential in that regard.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    So was Robert Heinlein, if Stranger in a Strange Land was anything to go by.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    When you fill up your USAID Punch-card, you get a free CIA Torturer Training Manual. Guaranteed laughs for the whole family.

  • Nope.

  • I didn’t mind it at first (other than that FUCKING AWFUL intro song) but for some reason my interest just sort of unraveled as I got further along. Something about it felt a little more like it was working with a format that is more akin to something like Farscape or Firefly – here’s a crew going on some adventures! And yeah sure that’s what TNG was, but TNG was a lot more methodical about it, but also thoughtful enough that it doesn’t come off as too dry. The difference however was that Farscape and Firefly had a sense of fun to them – and Enterprise was just… boring? But I think it was trying to be fun. And it didn’t work, it comes off dry. I don’t know I might be way off – like I said I don’t remember anything about it. Anything. Except that I kind of liked Scott Bakula as a captain.

  • Iggy

    I wasn’t bored by it. I have just gotten fed up with time-element material, because it usually implode under the weight of its contradictions or becomes nonsensical.

    I liked TNG but like someone else wrote, I haven’t found it re-watchable for the most part —– and I can watch a good show or film a hundred times… More often than not, I’ll load up something I’ve seen before and like than try something new…

  • Iggy

    Yeah, I’m hostile about Enterprise. They really screwed it up on the drawing board.

    And I’m dead tired of time-alteration themes…

  • Well I can’t speak for anyone other than myself but I’m guessing most audiences lost interest because something about it wasn’t working for them.

  • I think he’s just anti-time travel.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    But what does Mr. Plinkett think about this new Star Wars?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    But not my boss. He said he needed my report “like 5 minutes ago!”
    **slide whistle**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Like the temporal Cold War I’m having with my temporal lobes?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    In space nobody can hear you scheme.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Last time I checked, there were tons of Assholes in documentaries.

    **goes back to watching Frontline’s Topical Depress-O-Rama**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Battlefield: Earth was all dutch angles and blue tint.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    WRT? In Cincinnati?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Then who will I know who to root for when I read unexpurgated Supreme Court opinions?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Eyes Wide Shut … IN SPACE!!!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    He hated “Blue Velvet” and gave “Revenge of the Sith” 3 1/2 stars. Draw your own conclusions.

  • RLMkeepitup

    its okay but we’re never gonna beat avatar II nobody can

  • Joe Syxpac

    That’s cuz John McCain’s head-in-a-jar voted against it.

    Again.

  • Joe Syxpac

    That’s cuz John McCain’s head-in-a-jar voted against it.

    Again.

  • Bleurgh

    People keep telling me it gets better, but it’s deadline for getting better for me was 20 fucking episodes in. It’s a real tragedy that AOS season one was one of the last things Bill Paxton worked on.

  • rcollins596

    Episode three was a HUGE improvement over the first two. Here is hoping this continues.

  • Bleurgh

    There were ideas in there that I really liked. Like for example everyone being terrified of the teleport technology because it was brand new and had up until that point only been used to transport cargo and everyone having living memories of it screwing up, but the execution was so so poor that those few good ideas were squandered.

  • Bleurgh

    I love watching TNG, as they said in the video seasons 3-5 are the sweet-spot. They had a really solid run of great episodes.

  • Bleurgh

    The Orville plays like high production TNG fan-fic. Sure there is some cringe-inducing humour, but it’s minimal.

  • Bleurgh

    There is a cowboy holodeck scene in the second episode.

  • Bleurgh

    I liked episodes 3 and 4 for their focus on serious themes and lack of juvenile humour. I’m not saying there’s no place for humour in a Trek style show. I just think like with much of McFarlanes humour, most of it falls flat for me and is way too obvious.

  • Bleurgh

    Maybe the holograms can only be projected over short distances? It would be good if this is actually established.

  • Bleurgh

    Maybe the holograms can only be projected over short distances? It would be good if this is actually established.

  • Bleurgh

    The reason McFarlane got Patrick Stewart to voice a character in American Dad is because he was a huge Star Trek fan.

  • Bleurgh

    The Orville managed to incorporate a gay character into the show in such a way that it was actually interesting and they could write episodes about contrasting attitudes towards gender and sexuality. I really like that about the show. Sure the exact details of that race of aliens doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but I thought it was really interesting and the kind of story Star Trek should have been telling years ago.

    For anyone who hasn’t watched it, one of the alien characters belongs to a one gender species where everyone is male, except when they occasionally aren’t and must be made to conform.

  • Bleurgh

    I think Rotten Tomatoes works for the most part it’s just that people interpret the figures wrong. A rating of 40 percent for example, doesn’t mean the movie is only 40 percent good and 60 percent bad. It means that there is a 40 percent chance that you will be the kind of person who likes the movie and a 60 percent chance you will be the kind of person who dislikes it. I like some stuff that’s gotten low ratings and dislike some stuff that’s gotten high ratings. In those instances I am a part of the minority figure.

    Audience and Critic ratings are generally close, when they are not you need to try and figure out why. Generally comedies are extremely divisive and provoke a more negative critical reaction. Audiences on the other hand tend not to even watch comedies they feel won’t appeal to them. This is why Adam Sandler has extremely low critic ratings and higher audience ratings for many of his films. The kind of mouth-breathing turd-munchers who enjoy Adam Sandler know what they’ll get from an Adam Sandler movie and seek them out knowing they’ll like them. Critics on the other hand get these films on assignment and are horrified.

  • Bleurgh

    Quark was great, the other Ferengi were despicable, but I think that was the whole point. DS9 challenges Star Treks themes. The point of the Ferengi was how do human-beings who have moved past economic issues and gender issues, deal with a species whose primary motivation is greed and who are deeply misogynistic.

  • Bleurgh

    All of the youtube comments I read were unironically bitching about the shows diversity and the fact that the main characters name is Michael, as if that isn’t the whole point of Star Trek and gendered names don’t have a tendency to become unisex over time.

  • Bleurgh

    I was half expecting the pilots to end with it all being a Kobayashi maru style simulation, but no.

  • Bleurgh

    Hope so, just about to watch it.

  • Scumfall

    ep3 – dunno , seems to be getting further away from tos , tng , voy and more into a ds9 type vision of the federation , seems that section 31 has appeared and its all cloak and dagger ….. dunno if war is what trek should be about ……. its good though , i enjoyed it , but it just aint trek

  • Bleurgh

    After watching the first half of episode 3 I have to agree with Rich that this third (proper pilot) episode should have come first and the backstory episodes should have come later. In fact I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the way they originally planned it and the network got involved and re-ordered the episodes. It’s so much more interesting to see Saru give Michael a weird look on the bridge of Discovery and be wondering about what their connection is until it’s revealed later than to know right of the bat what their relationship is all about because I saw it in the last episode. It would have also given me a better opportunity to build sympathy for Michael if I’d seen her as someone accused of a terrible crime and faced with the opportunity for atonement and have those sympathetic feelings complicated later by seeing the mistakes she made to get to that place, rather than me thinking she might not even deserve this opportunity for atonement based on the fact that I already know what she did.

  • Casey D. Mann

    I am surprised about how “Star Trek” The Orville is. Also, I very much
    appreciate the choice to refrain from in-your-face “humor” the likes of
    “A Million Ways to Die”, or even “American Dad” and “Family Guy”. There
    is some low-brow, childish humor, but it takes a back seat to the show’s
    efforts to tell a story. It’s not perfect, but I already enjoy it much
    more than “Star Trek Discovery”.
    STD is not
    terrible, but as of the first two episodes, the dialog is stilted and
    shameful more often than not. The Klingons talk with pauses every 2-4
    syllables, which to me feels like they just can’t speak fluently. I
    don’t mind the change of their appearance too much, but I think the
    setting of the show itself is fundamentally flawed. It should have taken
    place after the events of TNG and Voyager, either directly after, or
    even go as much as 100 years later. It would have been more interesting
    to introduce a new enemy, and/or gradually build a continual unrest
    within the federation. How about producing a catalyst that causes a rift
    between allied factions? I think that would be cool. Or perhaps,
    eventually introduce a new super-sentient race that threatens the
    universe across many dimensions, leading to inter-dimensional conflict.
    Who knows?
    As a prequel, it is forced to carry out predestined,
    overarching themes and storytelling that can’t be ignored – limiting the
    flexibility for organically shifting story lines, should the writers
    feel compelled to change course in some way. It also makes it more
    frustrating for Trek fans that care about continuity, and leaves too
    many chances for inconsistencies that will just leave many fans
    alienated. Also, if the advanced technology in STD was set AFTER events
    from previous series, the CGI/SFX and space technology would feel more
    legitimate.
    Finally, I don’t like the idea of making Star Trek “dark
    and gritty”. Those two words are so overused these days, and
    implemented for characters and shows that don’t really NEED it
    (Superman, for example). It would be fine if the show gradually delved
    deeper into darkness, leading to a more realistic approach on the
    hardships of war, with Heavy Issues to address. However, I feel that STD
    is trying TOO HARD to immediately immerse itself in “dark and gritty”
    atmosphere.
    “The Orville”, on the other hand, very closely follows
    the tone and story beats that came from the lighter episodes of Star
    Trek as a whole, while also trying to address a (albeit currently not
    too complex) morality tale. Granted, there are many 20th- and
    21st-century pop culture references, but 1) it’s Seth McFarland so it’s
    unavoidable, and also 2) it is their attempt to still keep the humor
    relatable. Given time, it’s possible that “The Orville” could become a
    spectacular series. Or, it could just remain slightly above mediocre, or
    nosedive into nonstop poop and fart jokes.
    Overall, I agree with
    those that say “The Orville” is more like Star Trek than STD. By design,
    that’s the point of the series. At the same time, it has managed to
    capture MY attention better than that which comes from STD… where I
    feel that it tries too hard to conform to what they believe is a crowd
    pleaser:”Make it dark, gritty, and have explosions! Make characters that
    have ambiguous motivations!” I feel that it would have been MORE
    interesting if STD started as a more bright, “typical” ST series, but
    then have a gradual arc that twists and bends loyalties and characters’
    perceptions – their sense of what is right and wrong, and so on – over
    several episodes, if not seasons.
    That’s something “The Orville” might not be able to do, even over several seasons.

  • Bleurgh

    I’d prefer a new Star Trek DS9 to Star Trek BSG, which I fear STD will become.

  • Bleurgh

    Minor comments on the new episode:

    I too hate the blue star fleet uniforms. They are too boring, especially with the overwhelmingly blueness of the rest of the show. I actually way preferred the look of Michaels yellow prison jump-suit and the way it contrasted with the background.

    Sylvia Tully is already my favourite character on the show. She’s so positive, optimistic and well-adjusted and provides an excellent contrast to all the other miserable tormented characters. She’s also kind of cute with here hair down, but I have a thing for red-heads.

    I like that they got around the darkness of the new sets by explaining that the new Captain has an eye condition, but this would have been way more effective if the third episode came first.

    Anthony Rapps character reminds me a bit of Bashir from DS9 and the Doctor from Voyager. I’m hoping he becomes a similar kind of pretentious, oblivious, but still somehow likeable asshole character. Every Star Trek series needs one of those.

    At this point the show is still very much BSG and not DS9, but I suppose I need to accept it on its own terms.

    Michael acts like a genuine hero in this episode. All the more reason they should have put this episode first.

    People can teleport from anywhere to anywhere just by asking the computer in this series. This is a bigger problem for me than the hologram technology. What was the point of having a teleportation room and someone manning it in TOS?

    Jason Isaacs is just great as the new Captain. He’s definitely up to some shady shit and I love it.

  • EJ

    They definitely should have made Walter White secretly really good at roller skating, as a callback to Malcolm in the Middle.

  • RLMkeepitup

    the new captain lacks depth perception and investigates the ship in the dark; very shady indeed

  • Bleurgh

    I just hope he turns out to be Sisko evil and not full-blown moustache twirling villain evil.

  • Yeah Quark was fine. As for “the point”, I get that though. The point is hammered home multiple times, and I again echo myself, I found it heavy-handed and annoying. I think they could have hyperbolized capitalism in a way that didn’t remind me of Looney Toons.

  • Yeah Quark was fine. I liked Quark. As for “the point”, I get that though. The point is hammered home multiple times, and I again echo myself, I found it heavy-handed and annoying. You could have hyperbolized capitalism in a way that wasn’t so obvious. I just felt like they were beating me over the head with the point as if it were a club.

  • I love Babylon 5. You have to bear with the 90s video game space graphics for the first couple seasons, but yo… political intrigue AND space physics. It was a win/win for me. Watch their thrusters every time they’re in a battle sequence. People are probably more closely watching the nearly textureless graphics but when you really watch what’s going on – you know they put some real thought into it. None of that “we meet on the exact same plane” shit that goes on in Star Trek constantly. Personally, I liked it way more than DS9. I still really like DS9, though, but not as much as Next Gen or Bab5.

  • That’s not just a theory it’s printed pretty early in the Wiki article. Babylon 5 was actually pitched as a Star Trek spinoff – the network rejected it then made their own imitation of it. That’s exactly what happened, there’s not really any argument I don’t think. Imagine if B5 got the production value that DS9 did though – would’ve been pretty neat, right?

  • EJ

    Yeah B5 is one of the few shows or movies to plausibly depict space combat; no swooping and banking around like aircraft.

    With shitty 90s CGI, it kinda just is what it is – it was what they could afford at the time. I just accept it the way I accept the crappy looking VFX in TOS.

  • Brian Levine

    They’re making a sequel to The Last Airbender???

  • Brian Levine

    Heard that season 5 would have been the Romulan War. They should have gone with this instead of the Xindi war.

  • EJ

    Well, if I can bring up Iain M Banks again, he posits a post-scarcity anarchist (it’s described as communist by some people, but it really isn’t) society that interacts with other cultures all the time. Sometimes productively, sometimes disastrously. But he definitely shows that there’s plenty of reason for interaction with other cultures even in a society where nobody wants for anything and people generally get along.

  • EJ

    Well, if I can bring up Iain M Banks again, he posits a post-scarcity anarchist (it’s described as communist by some people, but it really isn’t) society that interacts with other cultures all the time. Sometimes productively, sometimes disastrously. But he definitely shows that there’s plenty of reason for interaction with other cultures even in a society where nobody wants for anything and people generally get along.

  • EJ

    Well, if I can bring up Iain M Banks again, he posits a post-scarcity anarchist (it’s described as communist by some people, but it really isn’t) society that interacts with other cultures all the time. Sometimes productively, sometimes disastrously. But he definitely shows that there’s plenty of reason for interaction with other cultures even in a society where nobody wants for anything and people generally get along.

  • Mike Magnum

    Yeah i try to watch these show people tell me is so great. And i wonder why should i give a shit about these people. Even in movies as Dark as Schindler’s List. At the center of it. You have a man trying to save every human being can. Even when Andy Dufresne is being raped in prison. He still see the beauty in things. TV focus too much on the horrible-ness of Humanity than Goodness of Humanity. And that why i don’t bother to watch much Tv.

  • Rick Wiltgen

    Not a fan of MacFarlane’s garbage movies, but you should rewatch The Orville. The first episode was rough, but it has consistently improved and is carrying the Trek legacy way more than Discovery.

  • Rick Wiltgen

    Not a fan of MacFarlane’s garbage movies, but you should rewatch The Orville. The first episode was rough, but it has consistently improved and is carrying the Trek legacy way more than Discovery.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Where’s the entire Star Trek series based on Tasha Yar’s backstory?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Don’t insult garbage like that. That’s where Oscar the Grouch lives.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Probably because of the eye patch.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “Bite my shiny metal ass.” — Airbender

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Lucas just destroyed the concept of storytelling, character development, and screenwriting when he buried the Prequels beneath a fuckton of stupid looking CGI.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    The cowboy holodeck is no match for Jane Austen World on Red Dwarf.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Breaking Bad did spend an awful lot of time on pancakes.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    It took them too long to get rid of Agent Ward, aka, Angelus Minus the Charisma, Acting Talent, Good Looks, and Stage Presence. And Daisy as Chosen One was a too-obvious callback to Buffy the Vampire Slayer. Luckily Fitz and Simmons got retooled so they weren’t the Quippy-as-Fuck Wonder Twins. Hopefully the series of more faithful to its source material than Joss Whedon is to his wife. Hey-o!
    **slide whistle**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    My gimp suit is made from velour.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “What do we want?”
    “Tiki drinks!”
    “When do we want them?”
    “NOW!”

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Something something climate change. Something something problematic. Fill in the rest, Millennials!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Before Obama had the entertainment mines closed due to regulations and all the entertainment jobs were off-shored to Canada.

  • I’m lukewarm about the new episode. On one hand I like weird science shit so the idea that the Discovery is a science vessel could make for a lot of interesting stuff – but on the other hand weird science shit doesn’t always automatically make for political intrigue or complex character development. I want more shit about alien cultures with maybe a little bit of X-Filesey type of shit here and there – not the other way around. But on the science shit aspect, I worry that long gone are the days when Star Trek was based in actual up to date scientific research, and that the science stuff will be a little more akin to fantasy. The bigger problem is it doesn’t sound like we’re even getting that, because in the preview for the new episode someone already said “This isn’t a science vessel anymore… it’s a vessel… for WAAAAARR!!!” So yeah Idk. We’ll see.

  • They’ll do a standalone film.

  • Scumfall

    having found out about it here ..ij ust watched the first 4 episodes of orville and apart from the “hey kids its my turn to do a joke” thing and “hey look , arnt we wacky” … its great , discovery is dour and doesnt seem to be interested in tackling anything other than war so far , in 4 eps of orville theres been more sci fi stories and themes than in the 3 of discovery which just seems to be a one note show ….. life is dour enough without watching it as well , …. tv is awash with realistic , gritty depressing stuff ,orville is an escape from that , discovery just amplifies it

  • ChildofLight

    I can almost imagine it. A light hearted picture about the horrors of a never ending civil war where even boys are soldiers and girls…well put a big smile on everyone and it will work.

  • Uncle Dan

    Jason Isaacs is fantastic. I was kind of wondering if he would finally play against type and play a heroic character, but it seems like he’s the usual. Which is not really a complaint because he’s fantastic at it.

  • Uncle Dan

    Jason Isaacs is fantastic. I was kind of wondering if he would finally play against type and play a heroic character, but it seems like he’s the usual. Which is not really a complaint because he’s fantastic at it.

  • Uncle Dan

    I can rewatch individual fantastic episodes of TNG. That’s the benefit of the show also not really having a long narrative. I think I watched the first half of season 1 of Enterprise before taking a break. Later on I saw over someone else’s shoulder the whole Temporal Cold War thing and thought “Oh if that’s where it’s going it’s not even worth continuing.”

    Also hated that theme song. I mean, what were they thinking?

  • Uncle Dan

    There’s *something* to B5 being the first to have that much CGI, but unfortunately it also means that we’ll probably never get an HD version of B5 since the original assets aren’t still around for them to update.

  • Uncle Dan

    It occurred to me as well that it’s also just badly executed as well. The editing and delivery is often just bad for those jokes. They always sound like the actors were like “Okay, I guess we’ll break the tone to make a bad joke now because we have to.”

    So hopefully they don’t have to so much anymore.

  • Uncle Dan

    They already wore cowboy costumes, haha.

  • I can’t help but put this as plainly as possible – you’re all doing a bang-up job recommending The Orville. If you have to apologize about nonmedy and McFarlane’s obvious pop-culture references then I don’t want anything to do with it. What you are describing is called “tonal inconsistency” – and it’s enough to ruin something for me. Not interested. I’m just not THAT hungry for new Star Trek that I will be able to stand rolling my eyes at lame jokes so I can get to the good stuff. That’s kind of like if A Million Ways To Die In The West was not just a bad comedy – but also a good western! So? I’m just gonna go watch TNG again.

  • Rick Wiltgen

    I sincerely apologize if I offended garbage. I love garbage. Some of my best friends are garbage.

  • Rick Wiltgen

    I don’t think you are using “bang-up job” right.

  • That part was sarcastic. What I’ve just demonstrated was tonal inconsistency within my own post.

  • How will the writers explain why Dr. Janice Lester couldn’t become a starship captain because she was a woman, yet at approximately the same time Phillipa Georgiou is captain of a ship? Or lies the answer in the difference between ship and starship? Women weren’t allowed to become starship captains, but ship captains? That wouldn’t make much sense, would it?

  • And there’s a slight error in this timeline, since Philippa Georgiou is a female captain and at the same time Dr. Janice Lester isn’t allowed to be captain because the Federation at this point in time doesn’t allow women to be starship captains. (In the episode “Turnabout Intruder”)

  • And there’s a slight error in this timeline, since Philippa Georgiou is a female captain and at the same time Dr. Janice Lester isn’t allowed to be captain because the Federation at this point in time doesn’t allow women to be starship captains. (In the episode “Turnabout Intruder”)

  • bmcelvan .

    Couldn’t agree more:
    Star Trek reboot (2009)* – WAR! on the federation…well actually just Spock but then wants destroy ALL Federation planets – I’d call that an act of war!
    #2 – WAR! One admiral’s secret WAR Machine.
    ST:D – WAR WAR WAR!!! Seriously, I’ve had enough War. Come up with some better original stories.

    * I liked the reboot movie, it felt fun and fresh to me but now there are three movies and this show…

  • ikdks

    Oh my god. Jeffrey Combs shaved Kathleen Turner’s bush in The Man with Two Brains.

    I just discovered that and thought i’d share..

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Basically he’s reprising his role in Re-animator.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “I do that all the time on my Twitter rants.” — Trump

    [This joke phoned in by three kids in a trench coat standing on top of each other.]

  • Pop Culture Reference

    He was heroic in Event Horizon.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    **cue up “Thong Song” by Sisko**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I fear STD will become swollen and itchy and make it hurt when I urinate.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Time-alteration? Like with hemlines and bias cuts?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Is becoming a captain of a Federation ship based on the results of the US Electoral College? It’s the only explanation that makes sense at this point.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Is it as masochistic as reading a Jonathan Franzen novel?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    And the fact that these new STD Klingons and Steve Bannon look almost identical in their monstrous ugliness. You can almost hear Plinkett yelling, “What’s wrong with your face?”

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Hence why people like Guardians of the Galaxy.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Holograms unnecessary? Then who would Jem be friends with?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “reckognize”? I’m sorry, that’s not how we do English around here. I need to see your papers, sir.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    If STD is causing painful rashes, itching, and painful urination, please consult your physician.

  • All of that sounds fine except I don’t understand why the Klingons feel threatened? Why is their culture in danger just by coming into contact with the Federation? They’re not being held at gunpoint and forced to join it.

  • Personally, I’m very excited for the Lobot Cinematic Universe.

  • itbegins2005

    Why do MRAs feel threatened by women achieving equality? Why do capitalists feel threatened by communism, and vice versa? Why do some straight people feel threatened by gay marriage?

  • Moist

    Duke, duke, duke,
    Duke of oil, oil, oil, oil…

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “You’ll never make a Lobot outta me!” — Lobot before the lobotomy.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “You’ll never make a Lobot outta me!” — Lobot before the lobotomy.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Orange is the New Holodeck.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    **awkwardly raises up hand**
    Because of their tiny penises?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    In Zod We Trust.

  • Gregstradamous

    Looking forward to the Blade Runner 2048 Review !

  • Gregstradamous

    lol…. the man with 2 brains!!!!

  • John Adams

    I’m with Rich on this one. Michael’s monologue observations on s[ace-walking the “artifact” were so godawful cringeworthy and awkward that the show never recovered for me. “Let’s do something like Spock reading a love poem,” someone said. “Sure,” someone else said. And Roddenberry is doing 560 rpms in the grave because of it.

  • John Adams

    I’m with you. Makes me want to rewatch Enterprise on Netflix. It gets better with repeat viewings, more than I can say for the current crap train.

  • The difference I’m seeing is that – the Earth is very small in comparison to – you know, the entire universe. In space it’s actually quite difficult to run into another species – so unless habitable planetoids and resources are scarce, or there’s some sort of aggressive territorial infringement going on, I don’t know why they can’t just say “get the fuck out of here” and have that be the end of it. If an empire wants to remain isolationist, I don’t think the Federation is too adamant about changing their minds. By rule of thumb they respect the cultures of species

  • I don’t know, it sounded like all women are excluded from being a captain. Although, Kirk in the body of Dr. Lester stated in the mutiny trial that Dr. Lester didn’t merit that position by neither training nor temperament. Was Dr. Lester more like Dr. McCoy, whose temperament excludes him from being a captain? The real world reason is clearer: the studio execs felt making a woman a captain (or a first officer like Number One in “The Cage”) as too risky for their sale. Today the people are literally screaming for more inclusion of women and for more diversity, which makes it safer for sales to include a black and an Asian woman in lead roles/positions in Starfleet. I like Michelle Yeoh, I liked her a lot in “Crouching Tiger.”

  • itbegins2005

    But this IS ultimately a territorial dispute– Klingon space shares a border with the Federation. And peaceful coexistence with an equally powerful “empire” would DEFINITELY be seen as a kind of threat to the Klingons– this is a hyper-aggressive conqueror race, remember? To them, even saying “we’ll leave you in peace” is a form of surrender. To show mercy is to show weakness– and the Federation would be seen as the embodiment of that ethos.

    Basically, the Klingons want to prove that they have the bigger space-dicks.

  • Shit, before that – the opening scene in the desert was making me cringe from the very getgo. Both her and her captain are pretty poor actresses I’m sorry to say.

  • None of that makes any sense. It’s not a territorial dispute because Starfleet is not settling colonies anywhere that the Klingons find to be a threatening move. They had a satellite in a place they didn’t know was anywhere near to the klingons. And no – no I don’t remember the Klingons being a hyper-aggressive conqueror race – if that’s what they are in this then they aren’t the Klingons. It’s fine to change canon but they apparently changed it to the most hamfisted thing possible. Big strong warrior race who fights anything they see just because it exists… yeah okay. I’d sure like them to elaborate on how the federation attempted to “usurp the individuality of the Klingons and their culture” – like you need to explain that. You can’t just say “Aaah they threaten our culture they must diiie!” How? How are they threatening anyone’s culture. Maybe one time they said “you can join us…. if you want to.” That’s a threat? To offer a place in a multispecies organization? They couldn’t have just said no? Just summarizing with “they feel threatened! They like conquering” does not do it for me.

  • Brian Levine

    Not many people know that Lobot’s last name is McNulty.

  • Brian Levine

    C’mon, guys…where’s that Riverdale Re:view?

  • Brian Levine

    I’m just afraid that it might spread and affect other sensitive areas.

  • itbegins2005

    Well then, watch another show.

    You’re bringing an explicitly trusting and peace-minded frame of reference to this argument. “How could offering an olive branch of peace EVER be considered a threat?” That’s exactly how the Starfleet officers are thinking, because they can only see their actions from their own frame of reference. They can’t see an offer of peace as, say, an effort to make an enemy drop its defenses, or an attempt to ingratiate itself to a culture it wishes to convert into an ally… and then, maybe, integrate with and supercede culturally. The Klingons are afraid of the LONG-TERM threats to their culture… and given how much pride Klingons take in their culture (which, mind you, is NOT one built on acceptance or tolerance), that’s not something they would stand to chance.

    And by the way? Klingons have ALWAYS been hyper-aggressive conquerors. They solve all their problems through fighting. They relax and unwind by fighting. And they run an empire, NOT a republic or a cooperative Federation. Do you really think they took control of all the planets and systems in their dominion through peaceful means?

  • Klingons seeing combat as a combination of tradition and honor is different from being hyper-aggressive conquers. You just said “they relax and unwind by fighting” implying that there is some zen logic to it, not that it means they want to kill everything they see that’s different than them. Klingons have always been combat-oriented, yes, but I don’t think that makes them crazy-violent xenophobes. They are rooted in some form of feudalism, but it’s a developed form and throughout Star Trek it seems that their combat competition is mostly just a way of them working out their inner-problems. They are Klingons, not Starship Troopers is basically what I’m saying. This was all much more well done in the backstory for the Human/Nebari war in Babylon 5, in which during first contact the Nebari kept their gun ports open because that was their way of showing respect – humans took this as a threat and fired first. Much simpler, but much more logical misunderstanding. It’s almost as if they’ve combined the Klingons with Romulans to be honest – Romulans have always been the isolationist xenophobes of the show.

  • itbegins2005

    I just wanted to point out that “hyper-violent” does not implicitly mean “irrational” or “directionless”. Violence is violence, whether it’s focused and traditional or heated and impassioned. The Klingon culture is DEFINED by violence– which is why Michael had the right idea to fire on the Klingons first. Not to KILL them, but to acknowledge them on the battlefield and assert the Federation’s own power and respect.

  • That part of it I don’t necessarily have a problem with – but I’m pretty sure she said “cut it off at the head” which meant destroy the space ship. I don’t think you can cut a Klingon bird of prey in half without killing everybody inside – so that’s more than acknowledgement that’s accepting that just to say hello you need to rack up a death toll, and I’m pretty sure that goes against the moral philosophy of the Federation. The part of it I have a problem with is the part where they feel threatened by the mere presence of another empire – one that they essentially lured in to attack? We’ve seen they are able to communicate via hologram so sending a message was possible, and in my opinion even a feudalistic “violence”-driven empire would have tried that first – there’s more than one way to flex, and they could have made just as potent a show of power by saying “this is our territory, this is our borderline, do not cross it, do not deploy any satellites to spy on us.” Which by the way, I’m looking through a lot of the lore on Klingons right now and I don’t find much that describes them as a “violent-centric” culture. In fact, the first use of the word “violence” in an overlook of their history is a recap of the episode of Discovery. Other entries describe them as “war and combat”-based, but again I think this is mostly defined by how their empire came to power and how it settles conflicts. It does not mean they thrive off of conflict. Happy to go to war if threatened, but not trigger-happy if you catch my meaning.

  • EJ

    Yeah it was like that sinking feeling you get with TNG when you realize it’s a time travel episode, for every episode. I didn’t make it very far with Enterprise.

  • Moist

    Get in line, Pal. Some of us are still waiting for our “Rubicon” Re:View.

  • Brian Levine

    Actually, what GR is doing doesn’t really concern me. TNG didn’t begin to get good until he was too sick to be involved. Of course, TOS got much worse when he was effectively phased out by NBC and they gave control to Fred Frieswithyourburger.

  • Brian Levine

    The sad thing is that I think that is what they were actually trying to say.

  • Brian Levine

    I just wish MacFarlane had the guts to do The Orville without the goofy stuff. But I suspect that it was the network that insisted he throw in the comedy.

  • Brian Levine

    Had Enterprise started the way they did the final two seasons, it might have fared better. But I’d have done the Romulan War rather than the Xindi War.

  • Brian Levine

    Only the 3rd one felt like Star Trek to me. Also the last third of the 2009 movie. I’m fine with it being different. But it still has to be Star Trek.

  • Brian Levine

    Her back has a story?

  • EJ

    I only saw the first reboot movie – the fact that I couldn’t remember a thing about it a day after seeing it convinced me I didn’t need to see any more. I don’t know if any movie, ever, has made so little of an impression on me.

  • MonkeyKing1969

    I too watched the Orville, and was impressed when ep 2 finshed up. The first episode was meh, but taht was a pilot. However, ep 2-4 were bangers and i think that hsow has a niche with peopel who just want something fun.

  • MonkeyKing1969

    Data can tell you the whole thing…..ekk.

  • MonkeyKing1969

    “She’s also kind of cute with here hair down…” I hate having to agree with you, because I like the unsure ensign character on her own account…but with her hair down she is a looker.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “The fuck did I do … IN SPACE?” — Captain McNulty from The Wire: Discovery.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Come on, get your act together! Where’s my “Fish Police” Re:View?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    All of this talk of WAAARR makes me want to play some Space Orks for Warhammer 40K.

  • Moist

    Fish police? That guy in Barney Miller got his own spinoff?

    [air horn: frr frr frrrrrn!]

  • Moist

    Fish police? That guy in Barney Miller got his own spinoff?

    [air horn: frr frr frrrrrn!]

  • itbegins2005

    Just… feel the need to point out that “war and combat” are simply more advanced, organized methods of violence.

    And I also feel I should point out that T’Kuvma and his followers are extremists. They feel threatened by the presence of the Federation, but the play for power only works by calling on the extremely prideful nature of Klingon culture: “Remain Klingon”, etc. It’s as much a result of long-term jingoistic thinking and indoctrination as it is the threat in itself. Kinda like someone rallying citizens to vote against their own interests by promising to “make America great again.”

  • Moist

    David Simon is a hack fraud for stealing and juuuuuuust barely changing Urkel’s catch phrase.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Or a “Cop Rock” Re:View?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Steve Urkel as Stringer Bell would have been amazing!

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Am I the only one who misses Riker’s hairy man-chest?

  • What you just said was actually exactly my point. I was trying to think of a good way to word the difference between just “violence” and war/combat, but you hit the nail right on the head. The difference is organization and advancement – meaning it probably comes with a slightly more rigid methodology and some set of rules. Like there could be entire systems in place that allow the Klingons to find worthy opponents without being the aggressors in their mind. Like what I’m trying to say – is that it’s possible to go out looking for a fight without the full intent of being the first one to strike. My readings seem to indicate that in order to stimulate their economy, the Klingon empire expands very rapidly – and rapid expansion could be seen by other even more untrusting empires as a threat or an act of war. Or – let’s say for instance they joined the Federation – then whenever the Federation has a problem they can’t solve with peace – the Klingons then have a reasonable outlet for their violent nature that plays to their ultimate benefit. But anyway I guess I’m willing to accept that these Klingons just operate differently because in this time period the empire is in a different shape than it is in later eras. They seem to make a couple points here and there about how their empire is in shambles and needs something to rejuvenate it in order to restore glory – and I guess it was mostly motivated by a single individual like in Michael’s case – but once shots are fired I guess what’s done is done. No backing out at that point. I get what they were going for but I think it could be executed better.

  • Moist

    Star Trek Beyond was a disappointment for me as well.

  • Moist

    “Duke of Oil” and “Ms. Uumellmahaye” are all I remember about that one. But the clips online are great.

  • Iggy

    I stuck it out…. hoping they’d wise up…. They had a few memorable shows…. like Tucker getting pregnant after helping engineering on an alien vessel…

  • EJ

    That sounds… interesting, but goddam it do I hate time travel stories. They never completely add up or make sense – just a total waste of time. Say what you like about the Star Wars prequels or the worst of the Extended Universe, at least AFAIK they never had a time travel plot.

  • I miss his beard.

  • Moist

    You mean Troi?

  • Moist

    As in Troi was his beard because clearly Ryker was O’Brian’s bitch.

  • Seth

    This Trek is actually quite good. Trouble adjusting stems largely from decades of ossification and the staleness (these hacks were correct there) of the Abrams films.

    Mikey is also smoking hot and looks like my most recent ex (who lives in the dorm apartment 20 steps down the hall)…sorely tempted to get her in here for some uh, STD. Lel.

  • Seth

    This Trek is actually quite good. Trouble adjusting stems largely from decades of ossification and the staleness (these hacks were correct there) of the Abrams films.

    Mikey is also smoking hot and looks like my most recent ex (who lives in the dorm apartment 20 steps down the hall)…sorely tempted to get her in here for some uh, STD. Lel.

  • Seth

    I miss his chair sitting method and rapiness.

  • Seth

    They’re both fine actresses, you’re just a sexist basement dweller.

    But no really they’re fine lol.

  • Seth

    It took 12 years to make

  • Iggy

    Time travel has also been done to death……that is the salt in the wound…Not only does it hardly ever hold up, they just keep going back to it again and again and again… That is one of the criticisms the RLM guys have about the Franchises: They start to play out over time — only entertaining much new viewers….and wasting the money of older ones…

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Didn’t the first episode of TNG make a big deal about how they could now finally teleport around the ship, unlike back in Kirk’s time? And they still couldn’t just insta-port without someone manning the teleporter room.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    Taliban time-travelers, no less.

  • Bleurgh

    Yeah it’s dumb. Sure the discovery is a science vessel, but they should have just set the series later.

  • Ultor_IVXLCQ

    Haven’t seen it. Won’t. It is a real fart. Picture this, as I told my non-sci-fi-friend the following metaphor: Imagine now that a new Batman movie is coming out. Batman’s re-re-reboot. With all the known stars and a new batman ‘a la 007′. But now (cheap twist in the plot) Batman has ”some kind of unknown power that He can’t control and he doesn’t know his ”small superpower’s extent” because he doesn’t know HE HAS SOME KIND OF ALIEN DNA ’cause bullshit. That’s what happens with the shit klingons you have in STD. PURE SHIT that destroys the nicely tied klingons history from TOS til DS9 and having it resolved in ST Enterprise. This crap shits all over the told and untold klingon history, AND ITS PROUD OF IT!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Brian Levine

    They could in Kirk’s time. It was just considered crazy dangerous.

  • Brian Levine

    Or his manly hairy gut?

  • Brian Levine

    Lots of episodes where Riker screwed up and almost got everyone killed. Even his supposedly big victory with the Borg was really Wesley and Data’s doing. Not to mention getting his Galaxy class ship destroyed by an itty bitty Bird of Prey in Generations.

  • Robotpals

    Maaaaaybe these Klingons are the pure form, untainted by the human-engineered augment virus. That means the TNG Klingons are still Klingon-human hybrids, just with bumpier heads.

  • Robotpals

    The guy had command of the Enterprise for like 5 minutes, and it got destroyed by one tiny ship. Plasma coils!

  • That’s like, your opinion, man. To be fair I’m not sure sometimes if it’s bad writing or bad acting, it’s a little bit difficult to see a good actor shine through bad dialogue and visa versa. I think it’s a little of both.

  • Brian Levine

    I know. How about “Fire 50 Photon Torpedoes!”?

  • species5618

    I appreciate the strait forward , no holds barred, analysis. I also like the hope. Giving this a chance could prove worth it. As you both said about pilot episodes, you can’t judge a series on them. Case in point, West Wing was piloted with the intention of making Rob Lowe’s character the centerpiece.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Star Trek: Discovery was no Star Wars: Clone Wars.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Star Trek: Discovery was no Star Wars: Clone Wars.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    “I enjoyed the straightforward no holes barred analsis.” — Spellcheck (Harry S. Plinkett2.0)

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Star Trek Beyond lacked the literary brilliance of Joe vs the Volcano, Act 3.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Space Eraserhead starring O’Brien and his mutant baby.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I can get you a toe.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    At least the Tyrell Corporation Casinos are still in business.

  • John Adams

    Day of the Dove, done with explicit warnings to the contrary. But then season 3 is only borderline canon anyway.

  • EJ

    I’m still pissed they won’t Re:View Ski School 2.

  • Idk if it’s fair to say that Geordi La Forge didn’t have a character at all. I mean – maybe he didn’t have a super well developed backstory, and yeah just about every episode about him had something to do with him being blind, or something to do with his visor – but I’d say his presence on the ship served a very amiable purpose. I’m not sure there’s anyone else on the ship who is quite so enthusiastic about doing their job.

  • Brian Levine

    But he only got it on with holograms. Crusher got it on with ghosts!

  • Brian Levine

    I guess we’ll know for sure when they show us the first Tellarite.

  • Personally I hope they have jettisoned that whole explanation for why Klingons have bumps on their head. Visual designs evolve over eras just as sometimes different actors portray the same characters – they really didn’t need to make sense of that small detail.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    I liked his interaction with Scotty in that episode where they find him trapped in a transporter. Basically telling Geordi to lie to the captain about how hard his job is, to make him seem more competent. Good advice, that.

  • EJ

    Are we ever gonna get a big budget 40K movie? Other than Event Horizon? The thing that pissed me off about the recent Warcraft movie was that I initially misread the press release and thought it was a Warhammer movie.

    Like, everything has to be all grimdark now, right? No setting does grimdark in a more hilariously over the top style than 40K.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    But you don’t have to take my word for it.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Klingon taint?
    **begins writing fanfiction**

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Or they could do a Re:View of Freaks and Geeks. Something Paul Feig is associated with that’s actually, like, good.

  • Papa Figo

    Also bad alien-hand gloves. And bad alien-eye contact lens. And bad alien acting. God I love that movie.

  • L.J. Negrete

    We got a Twin Peaks: The Return re:View coming up? I haven’t seen all the episodes yet but man are the ones I’ve seen awful.

  • Michael

    They did at least make him a creepy weirdo with the ladies.

  • Designer Dragon

    Show looks like shit. Pass.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I’d like to see a Starfleet vessel helmed by a Hunter S. Thomson type.

  • Being shy with the ladies makes him a creepy weirdo?

  • Being shy with the ladies makes him a creepy weirdo?

  • Bleurgh

    Thank fuck someone else is saying it, there are generally compelling moments in it, but the whole thing was just so trashy and poorly written. I couldn’t believe it.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    If my shit was that bright and explosive, I’d consult a doctor immediately.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    Good point. I’d like to see David Lynch direct a Downton Abbey* reboot.

    LORD FUSSBUCKET: Oh, I say, Nigel, it seems Audrey’s monster baby is puking blood all over the jellied eel.
    NIGEL SPODE: Again?
    BERTIE WOOSTER: Biffing tennis match, old chum. Funny story. After my third martini I found out I was engaged to Myrtle Smith-Smythe-Smith again.

    *Thinks Downton Abbey is part of the Jeeves and Wooster Extended Universe.

  • Pop Culture Reference

    I thought that was Harvey Weinstein’s/Bill O’Reilly’s/Roger Ailes’s/Donald Trump’s/Bill Clinton’s job?

  • Pop Culture Reference

    and Abed in the mooooooooooorning!

  • skeetslambone

    FWIW – I set my DVR to record the show, but apparently Football ran late and cut off the last 25 min of the episode. After watching the first 35 min, I had zero desire to sign up for any free trials in order to watch the rest of E1 or E2.

  • skeetslambone

    The easiest thing would have been for DS9 to just ignore it…that’s all, simply IGNORE it. Then, Enterprise would never even thought to fix it and we can simply call the ST:Abrams and STD Klingons exactly what they are: Hollywood Make-up Porn.

  • SamWongBal

    haha I shut this off the moment they said it wasn’t Star Trek

  • Puppies_Of_Pestilence

    I think my only motivation for watching this right now is Captain Lorca. I really like the character. A militant Starfleet Capt. who gives zero fucks. He’s like General George S. Patton in space.

  • alex doucet

    you hear that up there you hack frauds!

  • Electickmayhem

    The Orville is what rich and mike are looking for. It’s good

  • Scumfall

    now ive watched ep 4 i can see what they are doing and going for , it seems its a transition toward the morals of later trek v the old human way of doing things . will the tardigrades rights as a being be more important than the war ? i foresee a “we can win the war , but not like this” kind of speech . , what theyve done is tretch a 45 min episode over a whole series . …tng would start a war ,realise that this wasnt right , negotiate a peace and run off into the sunset hand in hand in a maximum of 2 episodes .

  • bmcelvan .

    Scumfall: Which is exactly the way they should have treated the issue so they can get on and EXPLORE new and fun ideas in the other 20 episode of the season…versus what we’re getting here which will be 23 episodes of WAR WAR WAR WAR!!

  • bmcelvan .

    So are you pretty much feeling the same way after seeing ep.4? I sure am. This show literally has NOTHING TO DO WITH DISCOVERY!

    So far we’ve only discovered that the old captain kept around and old light microscope!

  • Papa Figo

    I agree, except peace isn’t part of human nature, it was archieved through generations of constant conflict. And some think peace has turned humanity weak, and want to start new wars. That is Idris Elba character and pretty much the whole plot in Star Trek Beyond.

  • Brian Levine

    TNG started a war? Which episode was that?

  • Brian Levine

    Except that the humor is dumb and seems completely out of place for an otherwise intelligent series.

  • Brian Levine

    A) Scotty was written extremely poorly in that episode.
    B) Georgi was a total dick to him, not giving him the time of day. I get that Geordi is socially inept, but this was a living legend.

  • Brian Levine

    Star Trek Clone Wars. Wasn’t that Nemesis?

  • Scumfall

    would, not did.

  • Whiskey Jack: Lord of Pith

    I can’t wait for season two of Orville, where they return with a lot of ridiculous dark gritty reboot designs for the season two-part opener, then immediately go back to the TNG-esthetic with no explanation whatsoever.

  • Nathaniel Pitts

    Well, I just don’t know about Star Trek: Discovery. From what I’ve seen so far, for a number of reasons, I am fairly disappointed. I appreciate the way Mike and Rich situate the discussion, because they fairly encapsulated my own perspective going into it. We’re not quite in Plinkett review territory yet, but without a major course correction, I think we will be. About the only thing I really like so far is Saru. I think he has the potential to be a very fun Star Trek-y character.

    The special effects are excellent but still boring; you can tell that a lot of work (and cash) went into rendering the CGI, but I’m hard-pressed to think of a visual that really stuck with me, that I thought, “Ah, well that was money well-spent.” To me, these kinds of fancy visuals are getting to be old hat. I guess it’s something that we’re seeing it in a Star Trek series now, as opposed to the big screen, but since I’ve already seen it on the big screen, I’m not apt to be moved by it.

    The performances are solid.

    Lorca’s interesting, I grant, but I’m not sure he’s really as unique as he seems at first glance. Star Trek has always had Lorca-esque characters, these sort of ruthless pragmatists; Nechayev and Captain Peter Weller spring to mind immediately, but these characters are generally antagonistic foils for our more idealistic heroes to play off of.

    I can say in all honesty, I was willing and am still willing to give the show a fair shake, but it’s not looking too good so far. In fact, I’d argue it’s looking pretty stupid, pretty shallow.

  • Nathaniel Pitts

    And incidentally, though it’s something of a commonplace to dump on TNG season 1, I’d put just about any episode of TNG season 1 up against any of the first five episodes of Disc.

  • Brian Levine

    You go right ahead and put up Justice. Nothing is that bad. The worst part is that they spend the entire episode threatening Wesley Crusher’s death, and then DON’T kill him.

    Say what you want about TOS. Still the only Trek series with a great first season.

  • Is anyone still watchin this show? I kinda gave up after episode 3.

  • Out of disagreement or disappointment?

  • I loved it.

  • SamWongBal

    Both. Because everybody has the right to hate Discovery, to say it sucks and they don’t like it. That’s fine. But saying it’s “not Star Trek” is unbelievably stupid. Star Trek has been evolving for 50 years, it’s different in every new incarnation, and it shouldn’t stay the same. The absolute worst parts of Enterprise, Voyager, DS9 & TNG were when misguided studio executives tried to force them to be more like their predecessors.

    If Mike & Jay want Star Trek to keep doing the same old stuff it did back in 1966 then they’re no better than the “booger-eating” mindless audience plebs they like to make fun of so much.

  • I miss Plinkett’s reviews of Star Trek. He would have torn this shit apart.

  • See, but there’s a very fine line – a fine line between reinventing and just using the namesake. Personally I haven’t watched past episode three, but I won’t get too into what my problems are with it. But I’ll put it this way – the genre of cerebral science fiction is a very large umbrella with a lot of surface area to cover. And to make a Trek-like analogy, personally I think we’ve only explored a small quadrant of that. It’s like jazz. Jazz has been going on since the early 1900s – so why make jazz anymore? It’s been done to death, right? Now you’ve got NEW genres of music. Except most of those genres are derivatives and wouldn’t exist without predecessors. But on occasion when you hear something that is not jazz-influenced at all – like I don’t know, a flat-out country-pop jam? You know it’s not jazz. To me – this new Star Trek just isn’t giving me those jazzy vibes, so to speak. It’s giving me ehh… I don’t know… Firefly vibes or something? It feels like an actioney space-adventure. I’m fine with doing war, but I’d prefer it done on Star Trek in a way that makes me think about things. I haven’t thought about anything in the new Star Trek other than “why did they do this? Why are they doing that? Who is this meant for?” It’s completely possible that it’s been getting better as it’s been going along but it just didn’t hook me in with the pilot or the followup episode. Also with the whole jump-drive thing by the way, even though it’s not a high-brow show I have to point out that they are straight up ripping off the plot device from Dark Matter. That’s the entire thrust of that show – “we have a new jump drive, this makes us integral to the course of every space battle because we can jump in and jump out at will.” Where are the rules? Where’s the philosophy? Where’s the science? And don’t take any of this the wrong way, this is my reaction to the first three episodes, not the whole show thusfar. Maybe when the season is complete I’ll watch it all the way through. If it’s really made a turn for the better, please let me know.

  • Super Bro

    Rich’s communicator is on the wrong fucking side

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