sorry about you wife car accident mr prinkett
Regarding Picard’s characterisation, it’s made pretty clear that he isn’t behaving normally and that he’s taking the Borg thing personally. The Borg want to fight their way to Earth in the present because otherwise they give potentially thousands of species early warning of them, and want to stop First Contact so that earth can be assimilated quickly without the complication of other species being alerted. And remember, the Borg want to add to their “perfection”, so they want to assimilate species with the high technological capabilities – this may be why they chose to go to the very latest they could before other species got involved, because they couldn’t stand the loss of all that lovely earth tech as it was, let alone more. If they tried it too early, they may have even considered it a detraction from their perfection, because any tech they gain is already obsolete.
I get the feeling that Ron Moore had intended for this to be a DS9 movie. It would have made way more sense for Sisko to act the way Picard did.
Have you noticed how Lily shoots cybernetic life forms so passionately yet lives so quietly? My theory is that someday life and shooting androids will become one and she will be wonderful in both.
a momment of silence for mr plinket’s wife
I think the room with the window is for an escape if the ship were to crash land on a planet like in Generations. Can’t be solid because people need it to get out, has a force field and blast door because it’s supposed to stay closed but if someone opens it then the force field stops people from getting sucked out into space and the control panel turns it off.
Holy shit you’re right!
I’ve never eaten Pizza Rolls in my life, but there’s something about Plinkett reviews that creates within me an insatiable desire to get in my car and go get some. They also make me want to get married, just so I can kill my wife and make it look like a car crash.
I like how the dish is charged with whatever and can ‘destroy half the ship.’ So if you’re in a battle and somehow a shot gets through shields and hits the dish, 1/2 of the ship blows up? Has that ever happened to any ship in the Trek universe? Maybe it could be a new military strategy.
I am glad you mentioned this. A lot of people don’t see these things. A bit like Anakin Skywalker (or should I say silly moptop generic kid) building CP30 at such a young age. It can’t be done.
In fact building a robot at all would be immensely difficult for any 1 person.
Stop making retarded excuses for crap writing.
You must be extraordinarily stupid to ask what he has a problem with when he explains it in the video.
I want a pizza roll
Yeah, I thought the same upon first seeing the movie when I was 10 years old. New battle strategy: target the deflector dish! No need for trilithium torpedoes or a hidden webcam in Geordi’s visor! Destroying the Enterprise is getting easier!
Well, as soon as the shields go down it’s pretty much over. Whenever this happens it’s always “One more direct hit and we’re done for!”
Obviously you can’t hit the dish when the shields are up.
And there’s another thing he didn’t mention and that’s very unsettling to me: how come energy-based torpedoes such as the ones used by the borg, which were to designed to take on CAPITAL STARSHIPS SHIELDS, only cause that little damage to the humam “camp”?! Just one was supposed to have lain waste to those houses… I guess that’s one more fine example of sloppy writing! XD
I would like a pizza roll.
Well Lily mentions she spent years scrounging up enough material for him to do his work, so I dunno maybe next time pay more attention? Also plenty of famous people were alcoholics
Don’t justify Episode One, ever. There will never be a next time and there was never a need to pay attention.
Also, plenty of famous people certainly were alcoholics but none of them were rocket scientists. The people you’re thinking about are musicians, actors and politicians. They don’t get to go to space.
You know what to do….
Actually if the Borg wanted to pick one of the best times to assimilate people then they should have gone back to 1920. A wave of demiliterisation was sweeping most of the world then in the wake of WWI and with the world decimated by the Spanish Flu as well it would have been prime time to assimilate without resitance.
Crap. I liked this movie. Now I realize it actually sucked.
technically Data used his robot strength to break that big green tube. He also does this really cool James Cameron liquid effect when his head shot in the head in front of an elevator.
With the recent shootings in mind, I wonder if those escape tunnels they used would be viable in a similar scernario. Obviously, the main advantage is cost, but with the size forcing people on their 4’s like in the movie, you’d have backlash from the claustrophobic children and the families. If we lived in a more perfect, utilitarian society, people would see the benefit of such a program and would just acknowledge their children would be last in line. But nooo.
their incessant babbling created the evil mirror universe
and then suddenly worf has a purple space bazooka
I actually did a few days ago. They are not super yummy, but you can eat them. Don’t under-cook them and don’t use a microwave if you have the time.
There are child geniuses out there, and a good example is Tony Stark. The difference here being that he has the means…a genius father/educator and money. Age isn’t a problem in fantasy. But a slave in the middle of nowhere? Then again, Tony built a suit in a cave, so fuck it. This isn’t really a plot hole so much as a “one in infinite probability” type scenario. It’s unrealistic, true, but could it happen? Yeah. It’s just not explained at all. Maybe the guy grew up with people who were trying dabbling in getting back to progress and he happened to have a lucky brilliant idea brought on by an epiphany he experienced while hallucinating on absinthe.
Yeah but it comes out of nowhere. Whenever Picard on the show acts strangely it’s usually because of an outside influence. He just does here because…we’re not even told that he’s having some sort of mid-life crisis or anything. He just snaps. Which is hard to believe given his character. Had that been the only problem with the movie, it’d of been passable But all the other problems show that they didn’t really put any thought into it.
Why not go back to… …I don’t know, tribal times? You could even not touch humanity and have them worship the Borg, learning that human aspect as they grow. Then when the population is huge, assimilate them.
On that matter, if the Borg can just go back in time and all this stuff happens, why couldn’t another race go back in time and stop it from happening? Someone would surely notice at some point… Hell, even the Q might not let this happen.
I don’t believe you can beam in while shields are up.
you mean wives?
That window is where a clamp attaches when the ship is docked for maintenance.
You know, I loved this movie. But I just now fucking thought of this. Why would the Borg go back in time to assimilate the human race? A lot easier perhaps, but it makes no sense unless the Borg are out for revenge. It is stated several times that they assimilate to add to their perfection. There would be no benefit to assimilating humans in the pre warp past. What could they possibly have wanted that would add to their so called perfection? Even on Voyager, some of the peoples of the Delta Quadrant lived primitive, agricultural based lives, so as to not be tempting to the Borg. Another one has Janeway making a shuttle look tastier than it was so the Borg would assimilate it. I suppose they could say they saw humans as an actual threat to their existence so they went back in time to destroy human kind before they grew strong enough to be a threat to the Borg? I don’t know. This is a pretty big deal, and it’s what made the Borg always so scary and spooky. They didn’t care about wealth or diplomacy. They sought the perfection of their being at all costs. They harvested technology and resources from anyone without remorse or compassion in order to fuel the juggernaut. This makes them different from Romulans, who we always see having children, loving them, etc. They have sons and mothers, yada yada. The Borg are completely inhuman, and worse when they make you one of them they destroy you as a person. Terrifying. Unless they decided they had a thirst for vengeance at the meany head humans that wouldn’t submit then assimilating past humans just seems like a lazy plot device. It also destroys all the spookiness of the Borg. Voyager does this a little bit by adding the Queen as a more prominent character. But she’s so creepy herself it kinda works. She IS the Borg. And if you view the drones as her arms and legs the creep factor goes up. Anyway. Sad. I’m with Plinkett here. There are two parter episodes that are far more compelling than most of the TNG movies. But I still think Nemesis was the worst!
The forcefield window could be like an access hatch that isn’t meant to be open in space? For like repair crews and shit from outside? But then if it’s a part of the ship that requires a jefferies tube and a large exterior hatch (you know important enough for repairs/whatever that you have a hole in the hull to get in) why doesn’t it have a door. The purpose of that room might haunt my nightmares for a while.
“…so I dunno maybe next time pay more attention…”
Wow. What an ass!
Put my wife in the microwave? Thank you for the tip!
Well for Anakin its explain in a comic book (like everything about the Prequels) he found CP3O in a dumpster mostly intact Anakin was just repairing him as a hobby. Yeah he does say he wants to use CP30 to help his mom but even she knows its just something for Anakin to take his mind off the whole being a child slave.
Unless its to take out a treat. Lets assume the Queen is like Locutus she’s not the real head but the voice of the Borg (yes Ronald D Moore said she’s a person but he’s also the man who ruin Battlestar with he “god did it” bullshit, so he can’t explain anything for every)
So humans have been messing with the Borg for a while now, first it was Hue who messed of the Collective. Some don’t understand how but it makes seance wend Picard says being “individualism is awesome” they just think he’s being a smallminded idiot being part of the Collective awesome. But wend a fellow Borg said “maybe individualism is awesome” they acuity start to think about it.
Plus Voyager is annoying them so let’s say one cube wants to try and take them out beforehand, the rest want to say and fight the Undine
But yeah this movie is stupid and I can’t believe it took an MMO to give the Borg there balls back
I would like to formally request a pizza roll be sent in the mail.
they look more like pizza pillows. And yes I’d love some.
I hated this movie so much, I’m glad someone agrees with me. They made Zefram Cochrane, the inventor of warp drive into some dumb redneck! They also establish that “there’s no money in the future”. Which is dumb, since that contradicts almost everything else in Trek (there’s plenty of instances of Trek characters mentioning money or alluding to it), and Picard’s explanation sounds extremely naive. Yes, I know this isn’t the first time that was “established”: Kirk said so in “The Voyage home” too. I think this may be another example of the movies contradicting the series. At some point, the Voyager writers took this as canon, and mentioned something called “the new world economy” in the “Think Tank” episode. Loved your review, it made me laugh!
Some help please: In the FC review there is a reference to the purple space bazooka from an earlier review. And I’m sure I have seen it before but now I can’t find it anymore. What review is this from originally?? I can’t find it in the other reviews of Generations, Insurrection and Nemesis. Where is it? Please help me, my brain is collapsing in on itself.
I just noticed something, at 9:59 in the review, they have a coil looking thing that looks very familiar to the the sabotaged equipment thingy in the 1957 film “Forbidden Planet”. I am not able to locate a photo or movie clip, if I recall it is around 45-60 minute into the film, Forbidden Planet seance that is. It is a nearly exact duplicate.
the Plinkett voice has changed so much
Why is there so many injustice advertisements before and during the videos? And why do they have superman promoting the soviet union?
Earth doesn’t use money. Other races do, the Ferengi, etc.
Pretty sure the purple space bazooka is from Insurrection.
Yeah, except humans wouldn’t be any use to the borg as tribal aboriginals. Why assimilate a species with no technology. It would be like Apple trying to train dogs to build iPhones.
Actually if you are looking at Kirk’s conduct during the trilogy he is punished at the end of Voyage Home for his conduct in Search for Spock. In fact he is reduced in rank from Admiral to Captain. Sure it works for both Kirk and the audience, he becomes the Enterprise captain again and we get our hero back where we have always wanted him. But he is punished and that was for one major violation in three movies. At the end of Undiscovered Country it makes sense that there would be no prosecution because they helped to ensure that the peace between the Federation and Klingon Empires was not derailed before it had begun. Piccard in the films however is just disobeying orders because thats what was expected of action hero’s at the time. That they would disobey orders and do what they thought was right. Loving the work Plinkett.
If you take a good,close look at the hatch you see it closes after her.
And of course this emergency exit is only accessible through a tube and not via door?
You can’t have black leads in Hollywood that aren’t Will Smith or targeted exclusively at the “urban” market.
Bah! I love this movie!
I think Enterprise revealed that Cochrane actually told the truth about everything that happened.
Well, one good thing about this movie is that Dr. Crusher looks absolutely stunning! Hello Nurse…er…Docrtor…whatever, she’s hot.
I still enjoy watching it for what it is, a dumb space action movie with ‘splosions. Same with the JJ Abrams movies. Doesn’t mean they’re necessarily good, just entertaining
I could have bought that with some sort of explanation, but they just tie it to the best of both worlds and nothing in between. He’s dealt with the borg numerous times before with no problem, even refusing to commit genocide against them. It would’ve been fine if he acknowledged that and maybe felt guilt for not destroying them when he had the change, and this just being the straw that breaks the camel’s back
yep. he has a penchant for saying peoples names wrong, like Amidalun and Doku, and star track
All those years fighting the borg with phasers when they could’ve dusted off the antiques and used good ol’ fashioned lead!
He doesn’t mention the Space Bazooka again, though he does talk about the stuntmen on the bridge in Insurrection. Just like he doesn’t mention the cartoon chipmunk again. It’s like how when British record companies release singles ahead of an album they don’t put those songs on the album when it comes out.
It would make a great escape hatch like the one in the deleted scene from Star Trek The Motion Picture. If you’re working in a Jeffrey’s Tube and you don’t have time to crawl all the way back to the hallway, you can stop off in the room, jump into an escape suit, hit the 10 second countdown button, open the hatch, kill the forcefield, get sucked (correction: blown) out into space, hit the jets, and fly free of the asplosion.
I want a pizza roll!
I don’t care…still liked this movie. Out of all the TNG films, it’s pretty much the only one that doesn’t suck a lot, IMO. Btw, the whole “Defiant: adrift, but salvageable” bit was added in because the DS9 producer didn’t want it to be destroyed (like it was originally planned to be in the movie).
Did DS9 take place after First Contact?
During, I think it was around the 4th of 5th season.
Because Glenn Beck says gold will never decrease in value or what? What’s so weird about no money in an unrealistic socialist utopia in the future?
I love these reviews…and you make some excellent points as always…but I love this movie XD
funny that it just ended up being destroyed on the show, and they just built another one.
Hey there is one review where Plinkett Mentions DS9 in the context of the ships seeming to have less structural integrity/going down in one phaser shot. Which video is that from?
What does it add to the Borg to assimilate pre-warp humans as they do in the movie? Isn’t that pretty much the same as assimilating stone age humans? “Oh, you guys have invented chemical rockets? I heard those are great for interstellar travel!” Nah, it doesn’t make much sense.
In defense of Picard killing assimilated (or in the process of being assimilated) crew, I think he either A) Didn’t want them to experience what he went through when he was a Borg, or B) Felt that doing so would mean less information for the Borg to use against the Federation.
Couple things I noticed:
1. “That Guy” was played by Adam Scott from “Parks and Recreation”.
2. The one crewmember that Plinkett zoomed in on was the same crewmember who got killed by Picard in mid-assimilation.
This was the only movie where Picard being “out of character” actually made sense. In “I, Borg,” Picard was perfectly willing to commit genocide on the Borg and it takes Guinan-the second-most anti Borg character-to convince him to reconsider his position. And even then, Picard’s reasoning at the time only extended to Hugh because he saw that he wasn’t a Borg anymore.
The same applies in Descent, parts 1 and 2, when it is revealed very early on that these Borg have entirely different priorities than the one that Picard experienced, and the only reason why he didn’t go on a crusade with them is because they weren’t necessarily a threat to the Federation, especially under Hugh’s leadership.
Yes, but they took several episodes before they rebuilt it. It’s not like they did at the beginning of the next episode. This is quite different from how “Into Darkness” handles Kirk’s punishment, or Kirk’s death.
yeah, I get what you mean, I was trying to hint at the lack of harmony between DS9 and the Next Generation movies on a writing level, like this huge galactic war is just a passing footnote in conversation?…probably because they knew the movies weren’t that great on some level. Either that or, I don’t understand why but DS9 was like the black sheep of the Trek universe during this time.
Also it seems weird that they can manufacture all these huge star ships but…2 or 3 Defiant-type ships aren’t waiting in Section 31-land or something? Especially after Best of Both Worlds.
And to your point about Into Darkness, yeah the stakes were messed up in that movie. It was cool to see that little Defiant type ship when during the “will it fit?” sequence…I think that was on Q’onos?
Back in the days of “Q, Who?” and “Best of Both Worlds,” the ship was so massive and repairs could be initiated quickly enough that commando squads with bombs wouldn’t hurt them enough.
And swords. Don’t forget about swords. Even a good axe would help out in melee combat.
As for Data suddenly being bullet-proof, I would caulk that up to technological developments between Qpid and First Contact. Remember that Commander Maddox was still researching on developing androids and while he never succeeded in developing a positronic brain, he was also developing frames and casings for the androids. Over the years, he probably developed more resistant casings and sent them to Data to test effectiveness.
Chalk. You mean chalk that up. I agree that this movie is something of a c(aul)k-up, but I don’t think that’s what you meant.
It’s admirable that you want to make the story work as one giant, canonical continuum, but one of the many points that this review points out is that it isn’t. Period. The motivation for having someone shoot Data and him shrugging it off was not exploring a hypothetical scientific development or even a detailed, passionate review of other story lines like you just provided – if people like you wrote these movies we wouldn’t have this problem – but instead is simply a cheap gimmick for laughs that ignores the world that you and I and all fans have built for ourselves. That’s why it’s so insulting – injecting humour into a story is important, especially if it’s supposed to appeal to newcomers, but this kind of wanton disregard implies that our emotional connection to the other stories doesn’t matter anymore.
Gold-pressed Latinum is the most widely used currency in the Star Trek universe from what I’ve seen. I don’t remember if it’s ever mentioned in TNG, but it features prominently in DS9 because of the Ferengi. As far as I know, The Federation doesn’t use any kind of currency.
Picard should’ve said “You are terminated, fucker.”
Nemesis review, I think.
The thing is that 7 of 9 either implied or said in the final episodes that they had a transwarp conduit network that could allow the Borg to get to Earth whenever they wanted, and it’s always been the case that by the numbers, the Borg could quash the Federation whenever they wanted. For some reason, they try, but not that hard and not in a way that furthers their initial motivation.
One of the biggest problems in this movie is that they insist on intertwining two completely separate plots and they try to unsuccessfully combine them. That’s always why the tone of this movie feels different between the Zephram and Picard scenes. The light-heartedness and depressing emotions in this movie clash in an unsastifying way.
Well Voyager yeah, well I guess the Borg figure sending one Cube the normal way going warp 30 (yes I know Voyager said warp 10 is the max buy again fuck them) would be enough
The Borg are all about efficiency
agree, it should have been one or the other
A good movie should only tell you just enough to get the point across and continue the story, Point of it is for you to fill in the blanks. Which is what he did, you’re just an asshole.
He wasn’t being an asshole, he said that it was admirable that he was trying to make sense of the movie when the filmmakers weren’t, and that these movies would be less dumb if he had written them
Picard should have said “I Squeeze Gats Till Ma Clips Is Spent”
I was gonna say something to the effect of “Maybe since they’re in the Enterprise-e it’s got a new holodeck that projects clothing for you.”
Then you brought up the whole, “Shouldn’t they have small heads on their bodies?” Thing. Awesome. One of many things that prove I have no business analyzing movies on my own.
A lot of these flaws make no sense. The diversion worked because the other people are trying to cram into that hole while Crusher is explaining to HMS. She wastes no time because she couldn’t have been escaping during that time.
Why is there a hole in the wall with a force field? Because it’s some kind of emergency vent that opens when they need to clear out a section or something. Nobody works in there. (there are emergency panels everywhere on the ship)
Why is Picard unforgiving with crewmembers who have been assimilated when the Bog have already killed half his ship and if they succeed all of humanity existing at that time + everyone that existed between that time and his present? I think that question answers itself.
I do agree with many of the flaws, like Picard not just sending his superiors instructions at how to defeat the Borg ship. Zephyr is also very badly cast.
The difference is that Resident Evil was horror-movie/action schlock to begin with. TNG was an actual show that was at least, interested in what it was trying to tell.
Yes, it was on Q’onos, and that’s one of those scenes that gets put in the “Star Wars reel.” Right alongside Sulu’s lightsaber fight and the “dropped my phaser” reaction shot.
Maybe Anakin’s been stealing parts when Watto wasn’t looking…huh, I guess Watto’s nicer than I thought not to torture his slaves.
He said caulk.
“The urban market once took my TV” – one of the greatest plinket lines ever.
I want to know how and why they got The Enterprise-E
I guess Starfleet likes them or something.
You know…that’s actually a good point.
I mean, how often does a ship get replaced with the original crew in mind? Ad what did the crew do while the E was being built? Just sit around on one long-ass shore leave, waiting?
Dude, to enjoy a star trek movie, suspend your credulity…and just be a kid again.
I think you mean incredulity otherwise that doesn’t make any sense
credulity – a tendency to be too ready to believe that something is real or true.
Next time educate yourself before posting.
You changed your original post. You originally wrote “suspend your credulity” which doesn’t make sense, and changed to “engage your credulity.”
Next time, don’t lie on this webzone.
Wow, how dishonest. After reading the first reply you changed your original post where you wrote “suspend your credulity” to “engage your credulity.”
Next time, don’t lie on this webzone.
If they had not gotten the Enterprise E, there would have been no movie.
Well said. Just caulk it up to more of the same.
Everybody saw the original post. “Suspend your credulity” doesn’t make sense…
Wow, how dishonest and petty. Everybody saw your original post that read “suspend your credulity” not “engage your credulity.”
Welcome to this webzone.
Dude, if you can’t take a simple rebuke, get off the internet.
Wouldn’t physical weapons like swords/ guns be more effective against the borg ?
I have this theory about what would have made this movie cooler. What if they brought in some of the DS9 crew. Not all of them because that would have over saturated and already over saturated movie. But what if the Defiant showed up with Worf, Sisko, Bashir and Dax on board. The Battle of Sector 001 plays out the same way with Sisko and crew ending up on the Enterprise-E. Then in an early scene Picard can get captured by the Borg and end up having to reason with them or do something Picard-ish (whatever.) It would be up to Sisko to fight off the Borg and he can pretty much do what Picard does in the movie as it currently is. It would make much more sense for Sisko to go all crazy and have to get lectured because the Borg killed his wife. His arc would be a little more believable because he had a harder time with the loss than Picard had with his assimilation. A lot of the other scenes can play out in a similar way with a few changes. Troi could be off on some other ship doing something not in the movie (the writers can come up with an excuse) and Dax could go down to the planet. Her character would make more sense in those Troi situations there because she is 300 years old (heck, her earliest host could have been alive when the events of First Contact were occurring) and tends to be more reckless and hard-drinking. A lot of the same beats would play out. I just have to come up with something cool for Bashir to do.
Basically I think that would make the movie more interesting. The DS9 people are more suited for action movies and it would be cool to see the two crews working together. The problems would be that it would bog down in backstory and wouldn’t be a movie that general audiences would get as much since it would involve characters from two story lines. Also I don’t know how it would fit in to DS9 continuity. But I can dream… That would have been a cool movie…
Also in his review of Star Trek 2009 he talks about how the Dominion War reduced to the feared Klingon Bird of Prey to having the durability of a TIE Fighter. It’s at the very end of the review.
They even make a passing reference to the “recent Borg attack” in an episode in season 6 if I remember correctly.
Other than Picard acting extremely out of character, I actually did enjoy this film and I believe that this had the best production value out of all 13 films.
A lot of people say they like this movie despite some issues with Picard’s behavior and a few plot issues. And I agree, when I first saw this, I liked it quite a bit. But that was before I watched the TNG episodes. Are you kidding me?! This movie dumbed down so much that the TNG episodes offered. Plinkett even says that it’s a “less than stellar Borg movie.” Bingo. Time travel plots suck balls basically always. I understand that they wanted to make a space action movie that the masses would be interested in, rather than a really deep, intellectually challenging star trek film. But it still objectively wasn’t anything spectacular. Another thing, which I lament in the episodes Best of Both Worlds: the great thing about the Borg was that they were introduced as a collective. Creating the character Locutus, and the queen, actually weakens that idea. Picard in the Best of Both Worlds should have just been another drone. Granted that may have made it easier to rescue him, but it would have been that much more demoralizing. This was a chance to explore collectivism vs individuality in an ultimate sense and they kinda let the ball down, even in the tv show. But really, First Contact, disregarding Plinkett’s nitpicking, is still a dumbed down action movie and it would be actually bold and artistically challenging to explore more intellectual issues. Screw all you morons who don’t get it… Invent something useful before you lament an accurate and precise review of something that could have been so much more.
James Kirk steals a starship, purposfully blows it up, disobeys every order given him and he gets a new ship. And you’re asking why the NG crew was given a new ship that was destroyed in combat (yeah yeah bad piloting jokes aside the didn’t crash it on purpose.)
Sci Fic, suspension of disbelief. It’s not a good question or a bad one, it’s just kind of pointless if you consider all the crap Kirk pulled in ST III.
The reason why Locutus was semi-individualized was because the Borg collective wanted Locutus to be the envoy through which the Borg would communicate with humanity during assimilation. He was supposed to, essentially, ease humanity into the idea of becoming part of the Borg. Hence, giving him a name and the semblance of individuality.
As for the queen…well, even ant colonies have a queen the directs them. It kind of makes sense. But then again, the queen was never in the show, only the movie. So there’s that.
Well it would have to fit in sometime after Worf got there and also after the Defiant was finished.
I’m the original poster of this comment (which I guess I deleted?) and you’re right. Seeing as First Contact was filmed in 1996 they would have had to get some references to this event in season 5 of DS9. It would be interesting to see how they would explain sending the Defiant all the way to Earth during the escalation of the Dominion War.
Yeah, I get why the Queen was put in, because it’s easier to film and the actors have someone to play off of, and I guess the Borg learned from the Locutus thing. Maybe the Queen came from Picard’s mind and interpreted what an ideal woman would be through the understanding of Borg, similar to how the Talosians rebuilt Vina-it’s functional, but they never seen it before.
Why didn’t they replicate a whole bunch of fireaxes and sledgehammers? No matter how sturdy the Borg are, the humanoid shape can only take so much damage before it starts to break.
For what it’s worth, my main problem with this movie is that, well, I just don’t understand the Borg. I can forgive many things here, but I have no idea what the main enemy is up to, which causes problems in a movie.
In context, why would they continue sending just ONE fucking cube at a mortal enemy. Sure, it worked well enough before, but the whole point of the Borg is that they adapt and the last time they attacked their one cube was insufficient. I can even forgive the time-hole bullshit, but one cube!?
Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying they needed to have a massive, sector-spanning Dominion War-style punch up between all of Starfleet and a thousand mecha-polygons, but some time needs to be devoted to the motivations of your opponent.
Huh, in many ways it’s just like Into Darkness; the bad guys’ motivation gets mumbled at the screen and then action happens to quickly distract the audience from engaging in common sense…parallels! Coincidence?
Continuity suggests it was finished a year or less after the destruction of Enterprise-D
He has the space bazooka scene in…I guess it was the Episode II review. If not that than III.
What on god’s earth would you *need* money for? There’s replicators.
Do we know that…and what we are talking about is more the äquivalent of Columbus really or Cook or so, so really I don’t know. It’s not that he works for NASA.
Actually, they did make a quick passing comment about, “the recent Borg attack,” when Sisko was talking to the senior staff about why starfleet didn’t have any extra ships to send to DS9 and help protect Bajor. Anyway, I think your idea for how this movie would have made more sense. However, the flaw in that story line is that the action scenes, for the none trekkers, would be the primary focus of the movie and they wouldn’t take that much attention away from Picard and his cronies in a movie that was primarily about the Enterprise crew. Still… it would have been a cool crossover movie. May have even lead to some decent DS9 films. Ah well, guess we’re stuck with lens flares and female cast showing off their underwear.
“Star Trek: Worst Contact”! Haha, nah this movie’s okay with me.
Could have GONE. Please.
Hang on a second, just re watched this and I’m wondering something. If Picard’s order is not to hesitate to fire on crew members who have been assimilated, “you’ll be doing them a favor.” Than did he go after Data to kill him? I mean one minute he’s ready to kill crew, but when it’s a main character it’s all “oh yeah I was rescued by my crew once, I gotta repay the favor.” I think the movie Jen Luc is schizophrenic.
I rewatched this film lately with a special interest in the time travel subject. Picard isn’t very concerned about going back to their native time. Usually the way back is a big part of the narration in stories like that. But after they accompished their task, opening a time vortex is given. That’s really frustrating. So the time travel aspect is a useless gimmick afterall. This movie could have been the story of the Enterprise pushing a civilisation that is threatened by something out of their league and there could have been another plot device that’s preventing them to get help from the federation. But then the stakes were not high enough, I guess. And there must have been another way for comedic relief.
Look at the destruction of the USS Odyssey. Yup, it happens.
“Who is that guy?”
I don’t know, but I’ll bet he likes U2…
But it pretty much ruined the Borg as an interesting threat. In Voyager became Janeway vs.The Queen.
Shields. But why don’t they just have shields all the time (I know).
Voyager ruining things is the summary of Voyager episodes.
If Worf is able to make a personal forcefield out of a TNG comm badge, then I don’t think the Borg would have any trouble adapting to physical projectiles or swords if they were used as often as phasers.
Let’s fix all the continuity errors in this movie: The Borg had to attack Earth again as they secretly seeded the Transwarp exit seen at the end of Voyager.
All of the TNG movies take place in the Nexus. You see, Picard never left the Nexus, he simply travels to a Nexus representation with Kirk to kill Soren at the end of Generations. That’s why he’s all action movie hero in the subsequent three films, because the Nexus is simply giving him what he wants.
I know it’s been a year, but it’s the Star Trek 2009 review.
I like it. I nominate you to go write the next trek film.
The line must be drawn HERE! 100s of years in the past! with no possibility of reinforcements! And the best case scenario is we return to our own time alive without fcking up the space/time whatsit
I’ve tried to like this movie for the longest time and never succeeded. Ya, it’s probably the best of the TNG films, but sadly that’s not a high bar. They should have either a) made a film with the Borg or b) made a film about the origins about warp technology. Or at the very least forgone the time travel thing in favour of some other way of combining the two concepts. The Borg having time travel capability is just too big of a can of worms.
Honestly, the best analysis I ever saw for the Borg was that rather than being a “species” as such, they’re a massive parallel-processing supercomputer with the drones as individual slave computers. In other words, the Borg Collective is the biggest botnet in computing history.
Ergo, the reason their tactics don’t change is because, like any computer, they’re following the dictates of their programming.
Also, last time the Borg went after the Federation, one cube was very nearly successful because they were up against peacetime Starfleet. This time though, because of the joint threats of the Borg and the Dominion, Starfleet’s in the middle of a huge buildup and has made a number of doctrinal changes. This time around, a couple dozen starships survived against the cube for several hours and the cube is already severely damaged by the time the Enterprise gets there. If Starfleet had had more time, I wager they’d have won without Picard from sheer attrition, but they ran out of space between the cube and Earth.
I really hate the Borg Queen concept. Try to explain her to anyone who knows what a collective actually is. Where once the Borg were this superior race because they all worked as one collective unit, with each Borg as smart as the other, they now become mindless drones following the dictates of some dumbass Queen with apparently no plan other than to get a sex slave. The excuse used is that, but bees have queens, thus why not the borg? Two reasons, one, the Borg Queen clearly isn’t used to breed, and two, Bee and Ant Queens aren’t the actual leaders of the colonies or hive minds. They’re still part of the collective, the only difference being that they breed the larvae.
If you’re gonna make a movie where you want a central villain, maybe you shouldn’t use a race that specifically doesn’t have any individuals.
I just fucking realised ‘that guy’ at 5:48 is Adam Scott, aka Ben Wyatt from Parks and Rec, amongst other roles.
To be fair, as far as the whole Dr. Crusher pointless diversion thing goes, she DID have to wait until everybody else in sickbay made it into the crawlspace before she could go and MOST of the time if she hadn’t been talking to the holo-doc she would’ve just been there anyway, hopping up and down, telling people to hurry the hell up. It only took her a couple of extra seconds after the last person had gone to finish explaining to Picardo what to do.
You’ve stumbled onto collectivism’s dirty little secret… all drones are equal, but some are more equal than others. Shhhh, don’t tell the rest of the drones.
Except this is science fiction. It is impossible for a race of beings all connected through a hive mind to also have an individual leader.
That TV show where Picard doesn’t destroy the Borg was way dumber than this movie. He consigned thousands of civilizations and perhaps trillions of life forms to destruction and death because it made him feel better than personally destroying the cultureless, artificially created, malevolent Borg. That was just so fucking stupid.
It looks the Asian nurse was having trouble getting the Black lady into the hatch. It would have been better for Dr. Crusher to assist the nurse. Or, better yet, just yell at the black lady to get her ass into the hatch. In any case, escaping through the hatch was a dumb, poorly-constructed setup for a comedic scene that didn’t even work. If they really wanted a scene with the doctor from Voyager, they should have come up with something better than this.
The primary advantage of the collective was the ability to combine the thoughts of hundreds of Borg, so that making a mistake was almost impossible. Troy explained this in the episode Q Who. It was the first time the Enterprise encountered the Borg:
You are not dealing with an
individual mind. They do not have
a single leader. It is the
collective minds of all of them.
That would have some definite
Yes. A single leader can make
errors. It is less likely for
the combined whole.
The Borg queen made this advantage completely pointless, since she is individually making every decision.
It’s especially stupid because negotiation with the Borg is impossible.
Yeah I recalled that line. There are so many moments in the movies where they either seemed to just flat-out forget important things from the show, or just ignored them entirely. The kurlan naiskos, Picard forgetting that “single moment in time” (The Inner Light). Sigh.
What would have made some sense is if the Queen had been born out of the whole “Hugh” problem, when Hugh introduced some level of individuality to the collective, causing some internal and logical chaos from within. Hell, we saw some Borg join Lore as a consequence to this. But sadly, this isn’t pointed out in the film so apparently (according to Voyager) this is how all Borg work now.
So now the Borg are ruined forever and I’m sure we can all enjoy seeing them in Star Trek Beyond, where the Borg Queen will be out for revenge for some reason.
The Borg were so much more threatening as a Collective. One of the best scenes in Best of Both Worlds was when Picard was forced to speak to the Borg Collective after being abducted from the Enterprise. We didn’t see any individual. All we saw was this gigantic light source that had this creepy, robotic voice. The sense of intimidation in this scene was pure brilliance. You felt like you were encountering a race that was truly alien and truly superior. This is Trek at its best.
Can you imagine how less effective Best of Both Worlds would have been if they had introduced the Borg Queen in the finale?
The really sad thing is that it could, seriously, have been the next film.
Why sadly? That could lead to a decent Inner Light style episode when Jonny figures out he’s living a lie. Not to mention it totally JJ’s the Next Gen time line so that Nemesis never happens. I’m down with that.
It’s the infuriating simplicity of these movies I’m afraid. Every single TNG movie has a central villain to give the dumb audience something to recognise.
I agree, the Borg in Best of Both Worlds are so awesome. It’s so perfectly done I would’ve been content never seeing the Borg again. I like the Hugh story, but honestly, what more can you do with them without ruining them?
Funnily enough, I think it was Rick Berman who came up with the Borg Queen idea, or at least some other idiot, originally for Best of Both Worlds. We really dodged a bullet there, as well as getting the seriously awesome Locutus of Borg. It’s just a pity that they went ahead with that dumb concept later.
Last little point: The title, Best of Both Worlds. Now, maybe I got this completely wrong here, but I interpreted that as meaning the best of a collective society, and the best of an individualist society, in a clash of civilisations. As you said, the Borg collective seems almost superior, or at least our real equal, unlike the Romulans or Clingons. The moment you introduce anything “individual” to the collective, you destroy the whole point of what the story is supposed to be about.
Neither of those descriptions of Borg are very accurate. If either of you watched Star Trek: Voyager, that series really goes into the Borg and how they work. You can “Bargain” with the Borg (though they’re still assholes for reasons I won’t spoiler). They can also be held at bay with fear. They even agreed to a cease fire with the Voyager because of a larger threat, allowing them safe passage through their space. Plus, the Borg Queen, as seen in this movie, is quite clearly not a mindless automaton.
Borg assimilate culture as a means to learn about the culture, its not just savagely murdering them to them. Hue mentions this in that episode, that they too are explorers, and by assimilation they learn about the culture more thoroughly than we may by exploring.
By our standards their means are heinous, but they’re not mindless killing machines as a whole. Also, Voyager shows a lot of the more “Human” side to Borg, that while they do have a hind mind they are not just robots and when broken from the hive each does have individual thought… some even have such thoughts in small groups (5 or so) and aren’t always harmoniously in tune with eachother.
IDK, Voyager goes a lot into the Borg.
I think you’re misunderstanding Pinkett’s point about saving Borg. If you have an opportunity to save an assimilated crew member, or a disconnected Borg such as Hue, then you should do it. You shouldn’t just kill him. That is what Picard recommended in First Contact, even though he himself was saved in The Best of Both Worlds. It didn’t make any sense.
But this is a very unique situation. When you have a Borg cube coming towards earth, negotiation is impossible. Destruction is the only viable option. For example, in The Best of Both Worlds, Riker had an opportunity to save the Borg ship that was attacking earth. He didn’t. Instead, he purposely allowed it to destroy itself:
SHELBY [on borg ship]: Shelby to Enterprise. There are indications here that their entire power net’s about to feed back on itself. I’d say we’re looking at a self-destruct sequence activated by the Borg’s malfunction. Do you want us to attempt to disarm it?
RIKER: Stand by.
CRUSHER: There’s no way to know what the destruction of the Borg ship will do to him.
DATA: We should also consider the advantages of further examination of the Borg and their vessel, sir.
RIKER: I don’t think so. Data, separate yourself from Captain Picard. Away Team, get yourselves home. Mister Crusher, upon their return move us to a safe position.
(Enterprise whizzes away as the cube starts to spark and fizz. Picard staggers. Then – Ka-BOOM!!!)
If it had been a Romulan ship, Riker would have tried to save the crew of the enemy ship. He would have had mercy on the Romulans. But he didn’t even consider this for a second with the Borg. Forget about “negotiation”. He just let them die.
Now, in my opinion, Voyager sucked. It sucked really, really bad. The Borg episodes were stupid, desperate attempts to maintain some interest in the show and keep it on the air. The Borg episodes in Voyager basically suffered from the same problem as First Contact: the Borg were completely and totally out of character. I’m sure Plinkett would agree with me on this point.
The only reason the Borg even considered communicating with Janeway was because they were being defeated by a superior enemy – Species 8472. This entire scenario was preposterous. A super advanced species, the Borg, who have been conquering races for millennia, is getting their ass kicked by an even MORE advanced race from another dimension. And who do the Borg turn to for help? They rely on a lost Federation ship whose technology is far inferior to their own.
Even worse, they didn’t even try to assimilate Voyager and its crew. They negotiate with Janeway, which is completely out of character for them. Sure, Janeway threatened to erase the ship’s information on Species 8472; which is what the Borg wanted. But that didn’t matter. The Borg could have just assimilated the whole crew and got the information from their brains. This unlikely, dumb scenario also produced “Seven-of-Nine”, a character who was included purely for her sex appeal. Like First Contact, this episode was a poorly written, desperate attempt to make a new Borg storyline. But, like First Contact, it failed miserably.
Now, if you think about this scenario a little more deeply, you’ll see that it actually proves my point. Yes, Janeway helped the Borg, but how did she help them? She helped them by providing them with the means to destroy Species 8472. In other words, Janeway was ready to commit genocide against Species 8472, merely because they were supremely powerful, and it was the only way for her to save her crew.
More importantly, Janeway, in the last episode of Voyager, basically infects the Borg with a deadly virus. It’s so deadly that it causes the Borg Queen’s arms to fall off. She completely fucked the entire Borg continuum and she didn’t seem to care about it all. She basically did what Picard didn’t do in the episode with Hue, and she had no conscience about it. So if you’re using Voyager to argue that people should have compassion for the Borg, you’re really barking up the wrong tree.
Well, I like to think most people who hate Voyager are just the ones who can’t accept that TNG ended… but I know everyones different. I didn’t watch Voyager until about 2 years ago for the same reasons.
But, for the killing the borg there, wasn’t the Janeway that fucked the borg in the end the one that came from a timeline that was so depressing she had pretty much given up all hope and will to live and thus decided to throw it all away to save her past (Current) self from suffering the same fate as her, having watched her crew die for so many years?
If anything, using that example is bunk since it wasn’t really the same Janeway… Voyager dealt with a bit too much Temporal crap though idk. but Its been so long since I’ve made this comment I can’t even remember what point was trying to be made, so I have no where-with-all to argue any further… Other than to say my original point stands. Borg aren’t and never have been simply mindless automatons.
One, The Borg need to be louder, angrier, and have access to a
Two, whenever The Borg aren’t onscreen, all the
other characters should be asking “Where are The Borg”?
↑ Back to Top