Mr Plinkett discusses his thoughts on the latest Disney product.
Filed in: Plinkett Reviews
You’re a miserable bastard, aren’t you?
I get it, it didn’t check anything on your list. Unfortunately, your list is relevant only to you, since you will have different ideas about what those things should be.
Is it a perfect movie? No, but is any movie perfect? I think you just didn’t like the style of the film. I went into this wary, but hopeful, and when I came out, I was impressed and entertained. Some of the acting was perhaps a little off, but seriously, stop being so anal.
Sounds like you’re being a little anal sir.
Couldn’t you say that any sequel or prequel is bad without the setups/contexts/explanations given in the films that preceeded it?
the context exists though. it’s embedded in the public consciousness. do we really want a load of scenes explaining what exactly the force is, why darth vader can choke dudes with a gesture, and why having a weapon that can destroy entire planets is bad? this film isn’t introducing a universe, it’s building upon an existing foundation that EVERYBODY understands, even if they’ve never seen a star wars film.
Wow, did you even watch ®ogue One? Got the ending way off. Nobody died at the end of the movie — they went to a better place.
My Love for Star Wars begins and ends with the original trilogy, The prequels were awful. Now im going say something that going to shock many of you. Yes i did enjoy The Force Awakens. I mean yes its a rehash of a New Hope. Yes Ray is a Marry Sue. But overall its a entertaining enough movie. At least i didn’t have to deal with Anakin and Padmé horrible love story. Anakin going into a 5 year old hissy fit over everything. Or Jar Jar Binks saying “Meesa” every 5 seconds. Rouge One is just boring as hell. But this It takes forever for the film to get anywhere. Even with Jyn more detailed backstory. I didn’t give two shit about her. I didn’t care much for Ray either. But at least she did have some interesting characters as her supporting cast. Jyn didn’t, I think the only person i cared about in this movie was the Robot.
Rogue One definitely got check marks for story and emotion. I don’t take your point on context since Star Wars is embedded in everyone’s brains since birth. It even gets check marks for characters — they are not as good as trilogy but who cares. There are still plenty of great moments if these characters..
I really enjoyed Rogue One, sure it had flaws but it wasn’t boring and miserable like the prequels and it didn’t feel pointless since they cleared up some complaints from NEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERDS and I was entertained most of the time, it’s just one rocky beginning. Sorry if I enjoy some fun Sci Fi instead of boring plot hole crap like Ex Machina and Arrival.
Why is Ray a Mary Sue ?
YES YES YES,
Mr. Plinkett, I´m absolutely on your side.
Thank you !!!
That was short. The entire point of this movie was context, the context that we all knew was there. The movie was never supposed to stand on its own, it’s a part of episode IV’s story – the prologue.
For me it comes down to this:
If you want to see an enjoyable blockbuster film (nothing wrong with that) then Rogue One is for you. It’s a first for Star Wars in that the story has to tell a beginning, a middle and an end, (something we see less and less of in our blockbusters). It has good action set pieces, call backs for fans and there’s plenty of visual dazzlement. With all that it’s easy to see why audiences responded well to it.
On the other hand, if you want to Star Wars to reach the cinematic heights of the original trilogy then it’s a bit of a let down. Fan service can be fun, but it’s a cheap cinematic device and can be very distracting.
Ultimately it comes down to your expectations of Rogue One. If you wanted a fun Star Wars movie, you got it. You could easily argue that the new trilogy should be the films breaking ground, and these standalones are designed to give some breathing room between them. All that being said, this is the internet so I expect in a few months everyone will have completely changed their minds because of a buzzfeed article titled “10 ways Rogue One got Star Wars ALL WRONG”.
Big Trouble In Little China is perfect.
Wow. First time I disagree with plinkett. Still funny, but wholly disagree.
First of all, with the subtext: A Star Wars story, going into it you know that this had to fit into the SW universe. The context is a given. It is a movie made for star wars fans by a star wars fan. Just rehashing all the basics would have been a slow waste of time. Yes remove the context and it becomes a weird sci-fi tale. But then again so does Empire and RotJ. They both rely on previously established movies.
As for the characters, they may not have been as witty or as likeable as the bubbly supercharged Hyberbolic humans in TFA. But these ones felt a little more grounded. A little more human with more natural reactions IMO. They also weren’t made for an arc like the TFA gang. They had enough development to establish motivation to conduct a suicide mission without. It wasn’t a coming of age tale like ANH. Each one of these characters is established aso a worn veteran of conflict with the empire. To me, they are equatable to the characters in Mad Max: Fury Road. They are men and women on a mission looking for some redemption in a world that has always been stacked against them.
Which brings me to my last point. This isn’t a space fantasy like the other Star wars. It is a war movie. It undeniably has all the hallmarks of such and should be judged thusly. As such, sometimes story is conveyed via action, as it was several times in this movie IMO.
Overall I say it got characters and story fine. Emotion it probably does fall a little flat. Cassian is no Capt Miller and Jynn no Private Ryan. But that also wasn’t the objective of the story. It wasn’t meant to be a character study. Still, some more emotions would have been nice.
Also, her dad even says “I built a flaw in the reactor. But you still need the plans to find a way to exploit it”. The answer to why he didn’t just say “shoot the exhaust port” was in the movie. He didn’t know.
I said this exact same thing, though not as well.
I’m glad I’m not alone in understanding this.
The character argument is unassailable. That’s the movie’s design flaw. If they were good, funny, human, and vivid, all the other shit wouldn’t matter. But you’re invited to dwell on the rest because there’s that degree of emotional detachment.
You’re on shakier ground with the context bit, though the screenplay could have been retooled to include little asides for the uninitiated, but if this is episode 3.5, then it’s less of a problem. But yeah, maybe they shot the draft before the shooting script by mistake. The one without those last minute tweaks.
As for the Galen plot hole – why not tell the rebellion exactly where to shoot, etc – it being almost like the film was written retrospectively after A New Hope or something, well – maybe you could argue that he didn’t dare spell it out in case his message was intercepted by the Empire. If they saw the message, they still wouldn’t know what the vulnerability was, so the rebels would still have a shot. I mean, the Empire only really caught on when the rebels were attacking the Death Star, despite knowing they had the schematics, so Galen wasn’t kidding – it was well hidden. Even the people on board didn’t work it out until Luke was in the trench, queueing up his torpedo. THAT and the writers of R1 were bound by pre-existing plot details, like the plans being transmitted and stolen, etc.
So Harry, your real argument is maybe, did this movie need to be made? Well, no, of course it didn’t. But they made it pretty well and arguably closed a plot hole from the original. That’s probably all you can ask of an unnecessary and mercenary prequel.
The point about Galen not mentioning specifically what the weakness was – I got the impression he didn’t tell them for that very reason, in case the message got intercepted.
I feel like I’m sticking my head into a turned-off blender, and the internet has its finger on the “on” switch… I’m going to disagree with RLM here.
You’re comparing R1 to the original trilogy. This is not a fair comparison. They’re completely different movies, and this was intentional. R1 was supposed to heavily rely on pre-existing information and it was supposed to have a different feel.
Plinkett is also avoiding some very hard truths about RotJ. The first hour of Jedi is complete nonsense even within the context of the Star Wars universe. It also doesn’t stand alone at all, just like R1 doesn’t stand alone. If someone watched RotJ, they’d be baffled. Who’s this gay robot and trash can? Why do I care about the frozen man? Why does the white ninja guy get a laser sword and no one else does?
I do agree with Plinkett that the characters in R1 needed more heft. What I think Plinkett is missing are the strength of ideas behind R1. The ideas of rebellion, nearly impossible odds, and harsh realities are essentially the main points for R1. Plinkett left “concepts” out of his analysis, making R1 seem more hollow than it actually is.
I know RLM is aware of the power of concepts in movies. Their Eraserhead Re:view episode demonstrated this. If you apply the same Plinkett logic to this favorite of theirs, Eraserhead suddenly seems like shit.
Come on, RLM! Give R1 a fair chance. Stop making unfair comparisons and using rigged metrics.
With no training or reasonable back story to establish credibility as to why, she is able to confront every challenge she faces with a cool head and expertise, often on her own.
It’s exhausted listening to people make excuses for sausage from the Disney factor. If you have to trash the OT to make Disney Wars bearable it’s time to pack it in.
Reshoot One is a different type of shit than TFA but it’s stil pure freeze dried shit. 27 references and easter eggs? You can keep it.
“Don’t choke on your ambition.”
This line of obvious, intentionally-shit dialogue embodies the whole movie. Disney knows people just don’t give a damn, so why should they?
Just give them 838 easter eggs, references, cameos, etc and go cash the check.
Look how long it takes everyone to explain a non-SW movie set in the SW universe with rote characters, generic action tropes and endless references, callbacks, cameos, etc.
This is become an entetaining spectator sport. Certainly more entertaining that the movies.
Hydrangea spotted in sector four.
Vader gave cheesy lines like that many times before during the original trilogy. Why is it different now? “Apology accepted.” Oh, but he’s actually choking the man to death at that very moment.
Why is it castigated as a horrible pun in this movie, but it’s a lauded joke/line from The Empire Strikes Back?
It’s castigated because it is a HORRIBLE PUN.
The lines from the OT weren’t “cheesy” – they were sarcastic and ironic.
But keep trashing the OT to make excuses for this processed sausage.
If you can’t understand the difference between being sardonic and a pun for children then you are EXACTLY the audience that Disney will continue to rely on for this franchise. I truly hope you enjoy it.
That’s richanged coming from “troll prince”
Also plinkett’s take down is so long it has to be a video. If it was text it’d make my defence look paltry.
I can’t tell which part I didn’t like the most: climbing the stupid data tower, finding the plug to put in a thing to throw a switch, aligning the satellite dish, or the inexplicably placed satellite alignment console on a catwalk to nowhere. Oh and Mr. Grimface McCIA man whatever his name was.
Removing the context of the seven movies that came before “Rogue One,” to place it in a vacuum, is a failure of reviewing a movie when you know that the vast, vast majority of the audience will already understand what the Force is from their prior movie viewings. Spending time on such expectations would service such a small portion of the audience, would serve no good for the characters in the movie, that it would become a useless moment of exposition.
Also, how attached do you want your audience to get to certain characters when your audience knows they won’t continue on to future movies? They obtained plans for the Death Star at great sacrifice. We knew that going in, but it was a matter of how that sacrifice came to be, the details of how it played out, that’s why the audience was there.
I thought the ending was going to steal a bit from A New Hope, sneaking some rebels aboard the Star Destroyer, steal plans from the data banks to get them aboard the Tantive IV (Princess Leia’s ship from A New Hope), who would then ferry them to the analysts to review and find its weakness in A New Hope, as we know happened.
I wasn’t castigating the OT, I’m saying that the pun is inline with Vader’s character. Not all of them will be perfect.
That’s his job. And he’s rebelling – get it, get it? That’s a callback, you have to upvote this post a million times – against this shit.
You’re supporting it with a tired company-man line.
“The OT is bad too, maaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaan”
If you had anything half as interesting as RLM has to say then you could make money making videos too.
Plus you didn’t even understand the argument.
Stupid pun for children are not in Vader’s character. As in HE NEVER MADE ANY.
He made sarcastic, sardonic quips.
I think the difference is lost on you.
I don’t think you understood the argument.
“It’s a war movie! It’s an ensemble film!”
I dunno, I just feel like the movie probably isn’t very good if you have to shout its genre at people as some kind of mic drop.
Especially when most of the tension in the movie is about how the Rebellion can’t be arsed to do anything about it. The whole movie is like some shambling, muttering, pissed off teenager being made to go to family time.
hey Vader, don’t get so burnt up about it
Exactly. Part of the uniqueness of SW is that it wasn’t full of typical writer’s room bag of tricks, action movie tropes and stale generic characters.
I don’t recall anyone in the OT or PT returning from the dead to save the day IN THE END by killing the baddie from off-screen.
It was a war movie with SW production design. Not a SW movie.
So add even more banter? Doesn’t most Disney blockbusters use alot Joss Whedon esque banter now?
the context is that it’s a cash in of a profitable franchise, one of a slew of planned factory made movies that will drain all it can from the fan base before it reboots it again.
they were all sent to another dimension
Star Wars fans are beginning to sound like Sonic the Hedgehog fans.
What the fuck are you talking about? He didn’t say the Original Trilogy was bad, he said that it made no sense out of the context established by the previous movies, and you wouldn’t expect it to because it was part of a series.
Also, he wasn’t spending three paragraphs describing the movie, he was spending that time responding to criticisms of the movie – any movie worth it’s salt is going to promote discussion more than just this.
You want to hate this movie so bad you’re making shit up.
The context was the events of A New Hope, this was the prologue to that movie, it was never meant to be a stand alone film. And you can whine about how the series is going to become too expansive all you want, or you can judge the films on their actual merits and try to enjoy them.
“Part of the uniqueness of SW is that it wasn’t full of typical writer’s room bag of tricks”
I’m gonna disagree with that as it was basically just Joseph Campbell’s Hero’s Journey with a Princess, a farmboy, a lovable rouge and an old wizard.
In fact if you watch any retro interviews with the cast they talk about how it is a classic fairy-tale with archetypal characters. Here’s one of them here where Mark Hamill describes the story as “nonsense”: youtube .com / RDZZDmEyKIM?t=94
You may not think it has any action tropes but that’s because tropes change over time and what’s stereotypical now wasn’t then.
I thought it was pretty obvious Rogue One was a war movie, so obvious I didn’t even realized that people needed to shout the obvious. It reminds me of when people complained about Kylo Ren not being Darth Vader 2.0 and others needed to point out the obvious.
You must have missed the ending of A New Hope when a character arrives from nowhere and eliminates the baddie from off-screen to save the day.
I usually like and agree with these guys but it seems like they’re digging themselves in a deeper hole as they continue to talk about this movie. This review makes it seems like Mike’s never seen a sequel or prequel before. They should quit while they’re ahead and just move on and stop talking about a movie that they didn’t like.
Actually, she does have a reasonable backstory – she’s been surviving, pretty much on her own, on a harsh planet for more than ten years. She’s a skilled scavenger, athletic, knows how to fight because she had to protect herself growing up … you see she’s a survivor early on in the movie and she continues to be throughout. The problem is, so many people are getting caught up with the analog to the ANH that they’re expecting Rey to be the same bumpkin farmboy that Luke was, but she’s not, she’s already a competent person when we meet her.
He understood the argument. The review takes the plot out of context and argues that it doesn’t hold up anymore. That argument is accurate, but the film wasn’t intended as a standalone story. Should it have been? That’s arguable. But it wasn’t made that way and that’s not necessarily the wrong choice. It’s just a decision.
The people on Facebook and YouTube are losing their shit now. Everyone needs to like the movie they like.
Basically, what you’re saying is Star Wars is only good if it fits exactly into the box you want it to.
Can we talk about something else now?
Nope. Most of the internet’s taking shots at these guys so their answer is to dig in deeper.
I think Plinkett makes good points, which explain why the movie had an episodic feel to it. But I quite liked that – it makes an interesting contrast with “epic space opera”. In fact, I thought the end battle was a little over the top for the rest of the movie.
He’s doubling down on wrong.
At the very least we all owe an apology to George Lucas, including Red Letter Media. We were way too hard on him. I liked it better when he was getting all of the money, not some property gobbling corporation.
I’ve seen at least three of your comments on this board and they all contain the same logical fallacy that one has to “trash” the OT to make Rogue One better.
When people are being realistic about films, they aren’t trashing them. They are commenting on them.
Rogue One has plenty of problems. Plinkett says it checks no boxes for him. And that’s fine. For me, it checks the story box. It serves as an interesting set up to A New Hope and a nice bridge between the prequels and OT. It’s not overly successful as a side story and it’s not overly successful as a character piece. But it’s still an entertaining film and at the end of the day… THAT’S ALL STAR WARS MOVIES ARE.
Look, I didn’t trash the OT.
I think they should do a three-hour Plinkett special.
Film criticism is always going to be subjective. Everybody’s got different tastes. But RLM’s reasoning here is totally inconsistent, again, he LOVED TFA, a film egregiously guilty of the flaws erroneously attributes to R1.
He’ll walk it back after he digests it.
He did make some shit movies that showed zero understanding of the OT. The scene of the jedi children with the blast shields and remotes doing lightsaber training was laughable.
Plinkett’s oversimplifying the weakness anyway. You can’t just say “There’s a ventilation shaft two meters wide on the outside of the space station. Shoot it and it’ll blow.”
Even if he’d related the message that way, they’d still need detailed plans of the Death Star and where everything is. They’d still have needed to run reconnaissance that would have taken at least weeks, and the whole point of Rogue One was to show that the rebellion didn’t have weeks left. They were losing and the Death Star was going to crush them.
He did, but people hated those prequels so much that now people act like the Disney Star Wars movies are untouchable and they’re not.
No one trashed the OT until TFA came out. Then they had to. Now they are trashing it more so Reshoot One is AWTHUM!
I don’t know how something that has zero interesting characters, is full of action tropes and zero suspense is “entertaining”.
And you’re wrong – the OT weren’t just entertaining. They set a high bar for storytelling, design and were cultural touchstones. This is just Disney sausage.
But whatever… i guess I’ll just… let it go.
I want it to fit into the box that it built. That’s what makes it SW. Not fucking x-wings and lightsabers. That is fan boy window dressing. You know, the shit they mocked in HITB. Fat beardos exploding in force orgasms. Fanboys RUIN everything.
That wasn’t the argument. The plot holds up. It’s just not at all engaging. They leaned way too hard on fanboyish and not being original.
Dude, when your argument consists of anything more valuable than “Disney sucks, OT rules” you can come back and actually criticize someone else’s argument.
But for now, you can’t even articulate your own argument without sarcasm, exaggeration and personal attacks.
Move along. (Hey, that’s A New Hope reference!)
He came back from the dead AFTER being killed?
Again, missing the argument.
Luke does it too. Or are you counting the ONE moment where the training droid hits him as “failure?”
A Mary Sue character is the projection of the author placing herself into the plot of a story, having all the answers, moves the plot forward with her gumption/resolve/whatever, and can basically do no wrong. Rey, for all her technical abilities, use of the Force, and her ability to fight, she didn’t have all the answers. Rey constantly looked to others to provide information, she only wanted to go home to Jakku to wait for her parents, she rejected the idea that she was meant for something more when Maz wanted her to take Luke’s light saber.
Had Rey been a Mary Sue, she would have embraced her Force abilities without hesitation and taken charge over all events, gone to oppose Kilo Ren openly as the right thing to do, and not only as a means of saving Finn while trying to escape the imploding planet that was crumbling below her feet.
Mark Hamill is an idiot. He’s nonsense with his genderfluid bullshit.
And you are talking about story. The hero’s journey – or new kid comes to town – is as old as the caves and pretty much one of two stories you can tell.
Plot is how you tell your story.
The writer’s room bag of tricks are plot tools, tropes and cliches that they pull out of the hat every week on every single bad TV show you have ever watched. It’s recycled lazy writing that are only accepted because they have become normalized.
It’s still Deus Ex Machina bro. It doesn’t matter how it happens.
he didn’t understand the argument. Go watch the video again.
That’s pretty accurate. At least Force Awakens had heart.
They’re just as bad as the PT just in different and more insidious ways. In fact, they aren’t even SW movies at all when compared to the OT.
It’s not DEM. It’s character in the OT. He came back for his friend. In Reshoot One it’s a plot trick. See the difference, BRO?
Disney does suck. Please continue to feed at the trough. While viewing you may feel a twinge of memory in the part of your mind not killed by cliche, TV and video games. That’s called originality. Force it down, force it deep down. Don’t let it bother you. Just continue to feed.
I loved OT, which includes ANH, ESB, but not so much ROTJ, I don’t particularly like the P, PM was shit, AOTC was shit, ROTS has a little going on but not much, not as much as these geeky abbreviations. Serious, you guys can’t find more efficient ways of busting a SW nut textually, it’s like a textually transmitted disease, and why do people have to be F’d to like R1 or RO,.. Seriously though,people and their abbreviations…you guys should have tried to look like less of an idiot like the ‘FIRST!’ guy who commented on this thread.
Also, Mike tried to debunk Flat Earth, he didn’t and now he hates space science fiction.
First, I’m not a fanboy. I’ve never lived and breathed Star Wars. I just really like it. I wasn’t any different from the other kids who grew up with those movies as a part of my childhood. They represent way more than X-Wings and light sabers to me too.
But you know what the films do represent to me? Rebels acting with urgency against a looming threat to destroy all freedom in the Galaxy.
The Force Awakens didn’t capture that for me. The First Order is a threat, but not the threat the Empire was. And the resistance just suddenly pops up. It’s weird and doesn’t work very well.
Rogue One hits that note perfectly for me. And for that, it gets merits.
You speak with the air of an expert, but your words are just recycled internet memes.
Your argument lacks substance.
You bought the narrative. It’s all weird. None of it makes sense. None of the characters make sense. It’s “drama-facade”. It’s just hitting plot points. It’s empty, hollow, homogenized, safe, corporate, rote, trite, whaever. None of the moments are earned or feel genuine because nothing comes from character.
i do laugh out loud at that silly speech that Jynny from the Cell Block gives because – “where did that come from?” It’s ridiculous. But necessary for this artificial character in a fake movie to be this “great leader”.
I vicerally hate it. Which makes me see through and hate the marvel movies too. Hopefully others will see it and stop supporting it.
Do drugs or something. Never Disney franchises. Not once.
I’ve never read or heard this argument anywhere on the internet or otherwise.
I want a scene by scene breakdown with an audience of registered viewers that are all attached to lie detectors, heart monitors, erection detectors, etc.
The spin off film was better then Ep VII, at least it tried fresh locations. I liked Robot Jox, Mr.Miyagi and David Prowse but hmmmmmmmmmmmmm the rest was okay. Even JJ has to watch it and admit he dropped the ball.
Star Wars Episode 3.99: WORR!
In America… first you flamebait… then you get the clicks… then you get elected President.
Hmm, don’t know about those checkmarks. Emotion as a separate checkmark? How about:
as checkmarks? Emotions can then be the result of any ot those boxes ticked: empathy with a good written character, curiosity/suspense about the unfolding of the story and excitement about the action.
I’d say TFA only ticks ‘action’, while R1 ticks ‘action’ and ‘story’. The characters of both movies are crap and TFA’s story is an incoherent mess, while R1’s story at least makes some sense, though it’s obviously not the best story ever written.
“The Truce at Bakura” is a SW novel that has some of the original characters going on a strange mission set in a vastly different, weirder part of the Galaxy. I don’t know how well received a movie like that would be to fans and a general audience.
Star Wars Rebels animated TV show is the place to go if you want Star Wars that’s completely different from the usual canon stuff. It’s pretty great, in fact.
I’ve only seen it once, but I had the impression that Plinkett’s TFA review wasn’t very enthusiastic.
Did you watch it in a chinese cinema?
Fair point. They could also ignore it for now and strike back with a really good Plinkett review. Now it all seems kind of… juvenile?
Not every film is an action movie, though, so making “action” one of the “check-marks” of a successful film doesn’t make any sense.
“It’s non-canonical. It’s non-canonical”
Tina – Bob’s Burgers
was that a pic of boogie at 1:39? i mean he is technically fat, and rogue 1 technically isn’t the original trilogy. but again Mike makes this movie sound bad when it isn’t
“The movie doesn’t work without context” isn’t a valid criticism of an anthology film. Nobody going to see this movie is unfamiliar with the broad outlines of the Force, the Empire, the Death Star, or Darth Vader. We don’t need those details taking up screen time. We didn’t need to be reintroduced to Luke, Leia, and Han at the beginning of Empire, we didn’t need to re-meet the crew in Star Trek: The Motion Picture, and so on.
This film occupies the same narrative space as Star Trek 09, trading on nostalgia to earn Disney all the money. It was exactly what it needed to be, and in that sense it was perfect. :p
You don´t get it. The movie itself is a metaphor. They stole the script for it just as the rebels stole the death star plans.
– Weird diamond smuggling needs to be investigated. Turns out someone builds a effin space laser: Diamonds are forever
– Name of the female protagonist given by father later helps solve plot: The Da Vinci Code (I think it was)
– Two people oddly in love have to get unnoticed to and up the giant tower to upload (destroy) the plans (ring). Meanwhile their friends create a diversion to draw away the stormtroopers (orcs): Return of the king
– Every other guys-on-a-mission-movie a la dirty dozen for obvious reasons
I could go on…
It´s a masterpiece you hacks!
No, kidding aside, I kind of liked the movie even though most of the characters were quite uninteresting, but I´d loved to see the movie that was originally written. Seemed to me there was some cross or double cross storyline written and thus the whole thing would have been more like a spy story. Otherwise, the Whitaker scenes (which were clearly reshoots) don´t make to much sense. Why would Jyn want to kill him, as he asked. Why would he assume a trap? That would only make sense, if Whitaker thought Jyn was working for the empire. Another hint to me is the line from the trailer where he went “what will you become….” while Jyn was shown in an empire outfit. And in the end K2 says something like “you continue to surprise me” to Jyn… no she didn´t?! She was quite flat as a character and pretty straightforward. To me, all that would make much more sense in the context of Jyn changing sides..
Hi all. What a lovely Boxing Day present! Thank you, Harry.
Are you implying the final storyline was determined in post-production? That does makes sense actually, explaining the “off” feeling I got from it.
“I usually agree with Mike and Jay, but you guys got it wrong this time, because I enjoyed the movie and you didn’t. It’s not that the movie is bad, it’s that you didn’t understand it and will probably like it more upon rewatching it.”
Am I doing this right?
I don´t know to much about movie making so I can´t say in which phase of the movie they altered the story. But I read and I think it´s confirmed, that – after having finished the script – they brought in another screenwriter and gave him a ridiculous amount of money, whereupon he changed parts of the story. Due to that, they then reshot many scenes of the Whitaker storyline (he even looks different than in the first trailer) and parts of the ending
I think the “context” criticism is on-point. Basically, if this wasn’t a Star Wars film, no one would care, which speaks volumes about how boring this film really is. Add the Star Wars IP back in, and suddenly people like it. “Sure, the script was weak, but we got to see Darth Vader again! None of the characters were memorable, but it was great to see the Empire kicking ass!” Most of the OT, however, would be able to stand on its own thanks to well-developed characters and story. In other words, they’re great films in their own right, not bad films with a qualifying dependence on popular culture.
For example, when watching the celebration reel, you can see a scene in which Jyn and Cassian are running along the beach of the last planet whule Jyn has the disc with the plans in her hand, as if they were escaping. Nothing like that happened in the movie, where they just brought the plans from the archive to the tower top for transmitting. Edwards confirmed, that originally they were not gonna kill off the whole rebel crew, so this alone is a major change to the story. There must have been many more. Many scenes died to bring us that movie…
I see, now that’s interesting. It would fit perfectly in the line of product development thinking. Thanks for sharing. I always go into movies blank (yes even Star Wars), and it felt very ‘by the numbers’ and the character motivation didn’t make much sense. Your comments could explain that.
So there you have it: Star Wars was saved in editing, Rogue 1 was clearly not. It’s like they shot a bunch of stuff and made sense of the footage later. Not very successfully though.
Ep VII was idiotic in its pacing, plot, and its forced scriptwriting. Just a bad film all around- at least the prequels had a linear plot that was not intentionally trying to leave holes that can only be filled with ep VIII.
Rogue one was a solid film that from the very first scene, was just shot really well. The acting was better than TFA and I really enjoyed the story, despite knowing a certain degree of the ending. People just dont seem to get that it is the journey and the sacrifice that make the story worth it. It had quite a bit of humor, better battles, and less cg than anything else SW related in the past 20 years, so yeah, these guys are way off on my opinion.
Saw this movie in IMAX 3D, I
have seen every Star Wars movie in a theater, on opening weekend.
a cinematic viewpoint this rivals the original. The direction and the acting is
also extremely good.
2. The story fits perfectly between 3 and 4. In
reflection, R-One gets better and not worse like Force Awakens.
3. The story
is about war heroes and sacrifice. A studio would never green-light this type of
story without the huge Star Wars fans base. This is a Lucas-like prequel without
cheesy acting or characters for kid toys.
4. Vader being Vader – evil
It’s an A- Star Wars experience. The only better was seeing the
original in 1977.
Sure, you´re welcome, but it just is my interpretation of the off-feeling I got during parts of the film concerning a coherent storyline and character motivation and that to me the first half of it kind of felt dull and uninteresting.
Luke is constantly in over his head and needs several people around him to explain things or save him. While he whines about it.
I enjoyed the movie but agree, only because it was a Star Wars movie. The movie relied heavily on it’s context. I’d be curious to see what someone who hadn’t seen any Star Wars movies before thought of it.
I want to join the discussion with a very important point that seem to bother no one else, yet it broke the Star Wars Universe for me.
Three words: Instantaneous Space Travel.
In the original Trilogy it was never mentioned how long it took to hyperspace from one System to the next but it clearly took time. Hours if not days. Enough to play Space-Chess or train a little bit in the Force.
Rogue One establishes that Hyperspace travel is instantaneous and on the top we get instant communication via handheld devices.
Please somebody give me a good explanation why there are not 10000, or at least 1000 Star Destroyers jumping into the system whenever a Rebel fleet shows up anywhere?
I will consider every answer and i try to be gullible i really need a reason to enjoy any other Star Wars movie in the future.
For me this is far worse than midichlorians.
So Rogue One is a movie with a story that’s usually told in a novel or comic book that ties-in with the new movie, fun to know but absolutely unessential to the movie you’re going to see.
I think to make that judgment you would have to know the distances between planets. Tatooine is suppose to be on the outer rim of the galaxy far from the inner core.
Glad that you enjoyed the movie, but you shouldn’t measure movies in terms of plot holes, because every movie has them.
Well… yeah! But you screwed it up by fearing we, poor plebs, wouldn’t get it.
That’s a fair point. Maybe only for action movies? But I do think making ’emotion’ a seperate check-mark makes little sense, if anything, it’s the result of a good combination of characters and their storyline. You could also think of ‘atmosphere’ or ‘cinematography’ as a checkmark instead of emotions. Also factors that evoke emotion, rather than emotion being a checkmark itself.
Why is everybody so obsessed with logic in movies?
I mean it’s a story that takes place in a fictional universe where they talk about THE FORCE, so they can come up with any kind of horse shit to explain this nonsense. Here’s one:
The rebels took some mushrooms before the mission, so they were tripping the whole time, that’s why they were joking during such dangerous situations. So for them only a minute has passed. And they probably used some special fuel from Masamo-nib-Dalen.
‘In Bruges’ supposedly doesn’t have any plotholes but it’s a rarity indeed
I don’t think it’s really fair to judge any prequel movie out of the context of the movie it’s a prequel to. I view Rogue One the way as I’d view DLC to a favourite computer game: it’s an optional expansion that give’s you a little extra backstory, and a little more fun – but obviously you wouldn’t just purchase and play the DLC on its own. What percentage of the audience would watch Rogue One without having already seen A New Hope?
“In America… first you flamebait… then you get the clicks…” then you lose the elections.
One could similarly consider it less than logical for the Empire to destroy the building containing ALL their weapon design archives (when their ground forces clearly had the situation under control), but it’s the price you pay for the cinematic visuals of seeing the death star from the planet through the atmosphere, and the nuclear explosion coming towards the protagonists. As Plinkett argued previously, comparing Star Wars to Star Trek, in the Star Wars universe the faster-than-light travel is just about getting the characters from A to B – the needs of the story and the emotion/character development outweigh any scientific restrictions. After all, in A New Hope, why didn’t the Death Star just come out of hyperspace on the other side of the gas giant, so it could instantly get a shot out at the rebel base? (I agree with you that in an ideal world it can be a little more satisfying if it’s possible to achieve the same thing in the movie and have a consistent logic; but in reality, things in the movies tend to happen in order to create drama, and it’s left to the expanded comics and literature to try to rationalise it later for the most die-hard sci fi fans.)
The part that bothered me was the way they made jumps to hyperspace from within a planet’s atmosphere. In all the other movies, you have to be in space to enter light speed. Now, you can apparently do it from anywhere, because action and excitement! Because wow! Which begs the question, why didn’t Han do this in A New Hope when they were leaving Tatooine? How about when the rebel transports were leaving Hoth in Empire? For a Star Wars film that is supposed to seamlessly lead into the OT, this was a strange design choice, to say the least…
Yep, this movie is DLC alright. Horse armor DLC, that is.
*laughs out loud*
I’m getting that this is RLM’s passive aggressive way of saying “If you didn’t understand our review, here it is – we didn’t like it.”
He made good points, except for when he tried to make excuses for liking The Force Awakens. That’s a movie with characters I didn’t care about, actors who should be working other jobs, and dialogue that made me feel embarrassed for the screenwriter because he hadn’t killed himself yet.
An easy way they could have checked the character box was to do it like “Suicide Squad” did (but without fucking it up, like “Suicide Squad” did).
First, recruit a heist team from hives of scum and villainy. Remake Jyn as notorious pirate with a tragic past, but don’t give her (or the audience) so much information about it. Allow a bit of mystery regarding the reason for her mother’s death and her father’s capture. Instead of hiding in a hole, have her stowaway aboard a pirate ship, and mold herself to fit that role. As a privateer, she becomes infamous for performing daring raids on Imperial shipping lanes. Though you can imply ulterior motives of revenge, she begins her arc as outwardly amoral as Willie Sutton, saying “That’s where the money is.”
The rest of the quartet could include a an aging radical who lost his soul in war (Forrest Guerrera), a blind, Chinese Jedi wannabe (the blind, Chinese Jedi wannabe) and a cold-blooded mercenary who might switch sides at any moment (new character). Bookend the core group with a idealistic boy-scout of rebel captain, and a suspicious imperial defector with his reprogrammed evil robot. Now you have your Maliganant Seven, and all the character conflicts required to create a slew of juicy scenes and punchy dialogue, and get us to a place where we actually care about what’s happening.
The story from there could proceed as a series of revelations, punctuated by acts of violence, valor and sudden betrayal. Jyn could learn of her father’s orgins and fate alongside the rest of us, adding a major complication to her role in the mission. While she ultimately accepts the importance of destroying the Death Star, she also wants to save her father. This heightens her conflict both with the rebel captain and the mercenary, who by the start of act three have become part of an uneasy love triangle.
Cue Big Decisions in the climax. What is more important? Ideals or survival? The fate of faceless millions, or the bonds of love and family between individuals? How will each character choose, and how will their choices affect everyone’s fates?
Or you could just blow up a bunch of cartoon toys, and repeat platitudes like “Rebellions are built on hope”. How badass would it have been if, when confronted with that sentiment in the command center, Jyn had said: “That’s bullshit. Rebellions are built on outrage. They are built on the backs of people who were finally pushed too far.”
So many people on these comments could use a pizza roll… shoved right up their azzes.
Schadenfreude – the joy of seeing others fail.
Schadenfraude – the joy of seeing RLM rip something that everyone loves to shreds.
I wish you’d written the screenplay.
You stayed after the credits right?
Cassian Andor: “What are we, some group of rogue ones?”
Yeah that’s where I break from them too. TFA was to Star Wars what Terminator 3 was to the Terminator franchise: a hipster reboot that thought it was being unique and funny and quirky by inserting lame “jokes” all over the place. TFA has zero redeeming value.
But these are the people who liked Jurassic World, so, whatever.
Woah woah woah. Hold on a second, hold on a second. Star Wars is no longer just a trilogy or a single movie. It’s a series. An ongoing series. Try and watch any one single ongoing TV series episode and understand the context.
Rouge 1 has issues. Characters is one of them, though considering they all die, and it’s pretty easy to see who they are, what they believe, and how they act from the few minutes we have with them, isn’t that bad. Take the Rogue One characters and put them in Star Wars or Return of the Jedi, and they are taking the places of the little guys- the rebel commando’s or a shuttle pilot. Not the big guys.
Now, context is the big thing you mention. Fine. What context is there for any ongoing series that has a enormous back story and past, present and future history. This is a single episode – it’s perfectly fine to assume the audience of the entire planet knows what an Xwing is – but despite that, the film still shows you! It shows you what a Death Star can do. It shows you how Xwing’s are before during and after battles. Hell, it even shows you what the Force can do if you’re not a Jedi!
Rogue One has issues – the underlying text of “Trust” is too thin and missing from the 2nd and 3rd act. There needed to be some more interactions between characters in the 2nd act. The antagonist has two other antagonist’s who distract from his own arc. Go into detail on why that dosn’t work.
But arguing against a Star Wars movie for being a Star Wars is wrong, and worse, lazy. Stop being lazy, Plinkett. Your audience deserves and expects better.
I agreed with everything these guys said in their reviews except this one point. The other movies provide the context for Rogue One. ANH is probably the only Star Wars movie you can watch as a stand alone film.
Perhaps they deserve a better audience. You’re wetting your pants over a movie that … uses everything invented 40 years ago and adds nothing to it.
God every time I see that dumb scene of what’s-her-name from TFA chomping on gum like a horse while she puts on her combat helmet, I want to kick my monitor.
Chomping on gum doesn’t magically make a waif tough.
Oh it gets better. In RO the guy runs away in fear and little waify beats up six Storm Troopers with a little stick. Right after lecturing a bunch of cowardly men about how they need to fight.
I think it was a good adventure movie in the star wars-“world”. There were ofc some things i disliked, like the lovecraftian alien and that the chinese blind guy was a little bit over the top. Does it have to be so epic and give us the orginial star wars feeling to be good enough? I dont think that can be recreated. We can never have the same experience again as we had with the original movies.
My truth triangle would be Lucas, Kasdan, and Kurtz. You can make a movie with one or two of them, but it won’t be bloody perfection like it would if you had all three.
“Perhaps they deserve a better audience” – BAHAHAHA, isn’t it funny how Rich said AIDS?! Oh, ahem, welcome to Masterpiece Theatre…
You realize that’s like trying to shame me with Bible verses after bumping into me in the porn shop, right?
Privateer = Pirate = Smuggler=Han Solo
So you want Jyn to be a female Han Solo?
Somewhat. Differences would include her galactic infamy, and her repressed, personal hatred for the empire.
Boy those germans have a word for everything
Butt-hurt Progressives, death and taxes ……
Plinkett Strikes Back.
Yep I liked the desert planet. Novel idea for a Star Wars movie.
He’s a troll just leave him, I feel bad that I wasted the effort of finding that youtube link.
Thank you… A review by someone who saw the original as a kid, like myself in the cinema. Same thoughts as yours.
So basically this was made to try and defend their hypocritical bullshit with TFA. At least Jay wasn’t in it.
I agree too. I saw SW when I was 7, at the theater when it first came out, with my dad. This took me back to that time, and I loved it. I love RLM reviews, and almost always agree with them, but this time I can’t. I haven’t seen this Pinkett review, and probably wont as I don’t want to hear someone tear apart something I loved.
Geschlechtsverkehr Der Schmerz Entfernt – fuck the pain away.
you mean waifu, not waif–right?
She’s eating food you dumbass.
I was 8. Am adopted so Luke was the dude to me. I really enjoy RLM but feel they got it wrong here. Good to hear from star wars Brothers 🙂
You’re right. These new films are to me little more than fan-fiction. The feeling that the originals evoked was a unique by-product of their production; a feeling derived from the specific time period, cast, and crew that brought Star Wars to life.
things that i liked about ‘rogue one’:
– showed that rebels were capable of being SHIT HEADS for once
– cities get BLOWED UP
– star destroyers get BLOWED UP
– EMperor PALpatines REhab VOlcano LAir HIdeout for DArth VADer (EMPALREVOLAHIDAVAD FOR SHORT)
things that i did not like about ‘rogue one’:
– annoying lead male
– annoying lead female
– annoying weird talker with robot legs
– annoying lead female’s annoying dad
– annoying underdeveloped bad guy
– annoying fake plastic cg grandma tarkin
– annoying ‘funny’ robot sidekick
– annoying asian duo
– annoying darth vader and his annoyingly out of place control panel stuck on his chest
Fuck I love you Mik—I mean, I mean Plinkett. I was so bored during this movie I was ready to leave during the first planet explosion, and then stopped looking at the screen during that spooky rain planet scene. This sort of shit is no better than any random expanded universe text that’s been scrapped by Disney. For me, this is the end of my engagement with Star Wars. I’ll watch 8 and 9, but outside of that, I’m just going to have to hear about it from this channel.
Damn, that means she IS tough! Or at least what she’s eating is. Either way she looks like a damn cow chewing cud.
Question: Why are the alien heads in these new Star Wars films so enormous? Did you notice the buttface guy in R1 and the Nien Nunb type guy from TFA?
I’m with you on that, I like a little consistent logic regarding space travel and universe size, because it helps suspend my disbelief. It’s why I always really liked that show Mike once made fun of, “Babylon 5” – even though in the first couple seasons of that show the effects were on par with Descent (the mid 1990s PC game, look it up you’ll agree with me probably), they made up for it entirely by accurately simulating physics in space with their crappy graphics, and allowing the audience to know just how powerful certain types of vessels were and what they were capable of. When two nations went to war in that show you felt like you could gauge what was going on and what the outcome might be. It also veered off into the spiritual, but other than that it built a more believable universe than STAH WAHZ ever has for me.
In HitB he said he loved it (TFA), that it was everything he hopped it would be. In Plinkett he walked back the praise.
Again, I don’t think R1 was a spectacular film, but I thought it was a solid Star Wars film.
It’s a head-scratcher TFA gets the love. There’s a scene in which Rei and Finn are jumping up in down after fooling an imperial officer or some other shit.
Finn: (hopping up and down, laughing) “How did you dooo that?
Rei: (hopping up and down, laughing) “I don’t knowww!”
It was like Emo girl and her gay best friend just told off the head cheerleader.
Mike’s favorite Star Wars film is RotJ. Return of the Jedi does not stand on it’s own. It ends at what would be the conclusion of the second act. If you only watched RotJ, and no other film from the franchise you’d be completely confused.
I posit you could watch either Star Wars ’77 or Rogue One and enjoy them without ever seeing another Star Wars film.
This is why I think it’s intentional. There’s a lot of different innernet movie reviewers now. RLM need to do something to set them against the crowd, get them some clicks.
Whoops. Wrong video.
Yup. I think the only people that like TFA and dis R1 are those that thought Lucas re-edits of the originals was a GOOD thing.
You finally made a monkey out of me.
The enigma in this is Jay. Mike loved JW, so he ‘s actually being consistent. Apparently he has a thing for hypercharged, underwritten characters spouting silly dialogue that doesn’t make any sense while running a lot from here to there.
But listen to Jay at the start of their TFA-review: ‘I didn’t like JW. It was hollow and phony with boring, annoying characters. I really, really like TFA. It worked in all the ways JW did not.’
Now call me crazy, but I think TFA is almost exactly like JW: a hyped up, inconsistent and underwritten remake of an orginal good movie, hollow and phony to the core.
I’m old and the interwebs scare me. I get confused and don’t know where I’m posting or where the delete buttons are apparently.
No worries, I’m gonna delete my comment too, and post my Simpsons reference where it belongs.
This video needed to be 75 minutes longer. But besides that…
Plinkett is the Heisenberg of movie reviews. You go into your laboratory and work some fucking movie-science magic and somehow crystalize all of my frustrations with this turd of a film into something I can shoot straight into my veins. Suddenly all the pain and hate that I feel for this film is washed away by your Plinketty goodness.
What I’m trying to say is: I will suck your dick in a back alley for another hit that sweet crystal Plinkett.
I don’t know, Oscar Isaac’s head is a bit larger than average, sure, but it’s not THAT noticeable.
wait wait wait. “imagine this movie outside the context of star wars. suddenly all this star wars stuff doesn’t make sense!” what the fuck sorta critique is that? Are you really expecting each and every star wars movie to have to go over what the force is? what the death star is? When you watch documentary films about WWII where they focus on some small but important battle does anyone really complain that they don’t go through exposition about how the war began? who hitler is? No because besides maybe setting up the film within a certain time frame within the war we’re all pretty sure we know the bigger picture going on. Are you actually a person who looks forward to hearing how spider man gets his powers in every goddamn movie?
I agree they didn’t spend enough time making us care about the characters but don’t try to add a few minutes to this review mad about how no one set aside a few minutes to tell you what the force is.
I’m glad that the new Star Wars cashgrab got the Transformers IV treatment from Plinkett.
Which means we can all be friends now and move on to a better and brighter future, maybe plant a tree, look back at 2016 and.. aw fuck who am I kidding, Bowie’s dead and this year sucked. Big time. Glad this charade is over next weekend, because everything’s gonna be aaalright once we get to January.
The point they were trying to make with the context stuff is that the original trilogy movies are good because they do movie stuff right, even when you take the Star Wars context away. They make sense narratively, have characters that are developed, etc. Rogue One doesn’t work out of context because it does the opposite of what the originals did: it doesn’t develop its characters, the narrative makes no sense, etc. In other words, it doesn’t do movie stuff right. It fails as a film, even with the Star Wars context there to prop it up.
Considering the middle-aged beardo fanbase of STAR WARS, I think Disney is leaving a lot of money on the table by not releasing an assortment of different colored light-saber handle shaped flesh-lights. Then you could literally fuck STAR WARS. Or a light-saber dildo, so STAR WARS can literally fuck you. They could get you cumming, and going.
Indeed! Which, of course, is because ANH was the only one written as a standalone movie 😉
hmm i don’t agree personally. i dont think it’s a great film, but I can’t imagine the film out a star wars context. does it lean too heavily on its context?probably yeah, but i dont think that took away from the enjoyment. I think its characters could be better to be fair, mainly the two leads. But I enjoyed the others a lot, did not take Donnie yen the way you did. Wish there was more of Whitaker. It seems to have the modern problem of too much plot and not enough character. but by force of performance i was still engaged, especially with Maads Mikleson around. I didn’t enjoy Force Awakens as much really… I get what people see I daily ridley but on top of being a mary sue, her particular posh affect just annoys the hell out of me. Who else was really in that besides old character? Boyega was my favourite part of it but his character is mostly a warm prescence than a driver of the story…. he’s basically sidelned. The pilot dude, forgetting his actors name…..totally charming actor steals his scenes… but that’s it. Villain was good. it worked fine dramatically, but a villain who is party meant to be a dweeb isnt gonna carry that film. I mean the force awakens is still good, but i feel like that has suddenly become a much better film in peoples eyes comparing the rogue one to dis-favourably. yeah…just don’t really feel that at all. FA had a rote plot, R1 had rote characters. but at least with R1 we got a different kind of story.
I love you guys and Mr. Plinkett and your respective reviews and the reason being is because I tend to normally agree with 99% of what you say. However, I can’t believe how far off you are on Rogue One.
The one thing I enjoyed about Rogue One was the lack of lightsaber bukakee throughout the film.
What they need is a cock ring that looks like a light saber hilt and makes your boner glow.
First time I’ve really disagreed with Plinkett/RLM, which I’ve got to say makes the editing style condescending and frustrating.
You can’t put a over the top laugh track over things that were supposed to be mildly amusing, hell do the same laugh track over Han and Leia’s pithy lines an you’ll get the same effect.
Also the story is where this movie deserved a huge fucking check mark. Things happened for a reason, characters acted for reasons, and the whole universe had logic to it. MAYBE it’s not your kind of Star Wars movie, but that doesn’t make it a shit film. Not every movie character has to over-emote like Finn/Rey, sometimes it’s more interesting to watch reasonable people encounter and try to deal with a problem.
Let alone ignoring how much praise TFA gets when the characters all act like people in a movie. Why the fuck did Rey care so much more about Han than all of the Hosnian system? Because the movie makes expect us to care more (which is dumb because we should care more about the Hosnian system) so Rey cares more. It doesn’t make sense.
I feel like this was just MikeJayRich saying “I don’t like this movie because it’s tone isn’t the tone I think star wars should be” and then making a video that presumes they are totally right about everything. There are clear flaws with the prequels, this was something that wasn’t their taste that they are acting like was flawed because of that. I feel like they made no effort to understand those people who liked the film. That or they are so sick of the marketing and the “product” nature of Star Wars that they came into this movie with such a sour bias in their mouth that this movie wasn’t going to win them over.
idk, I’m just bummed to finally have a video where Plinkett is so frustratingly off the mark.
Here’s a question, is it possible to make a good Star Wars movie that doesn’t have the Death Star in it?
We said man. Walking out of the cinema I was like “I know this sucked, but I can’t quite put my finger on it.”
You’re point about R1 not standing on its own as a story is right. It was supposed to, and neither was any other Star Wars movie after A New Hope. It’s an odd criticism from RLM. I give R1 a tick on story. What we really needed was the main characters of TFA in the story from R1 (not the actual characters of course, but similar types with energy and personality). Then perhaps everyone would be happy.
They all were on crazy juice this day. It’s like they expected it to be JW schlock or TFA semi-schlock so when they got a good logical movie they went “no no no, this is all wrong”
Mike is usually the story guy so I’m surprised he in particular didn’t like it, it had a great logical robust story.
TFA was the cash grab one. This was an original star wars story that somebody wanted to tell, it wasn’t just “we’ve got to come up with an excuse to make a star wars movie” but it was “bob has a good idea for a star wars movie” idk, the other one was so much more obviously fanservicey that I don’t get why this one is the one getting crap for it.
The narrative makes no sense? WTF?!? “There’s a big weapon, we need to find a way to stop it! This guy has the key to stopping it! Let’s go get that key thing! Ok but we are going to have to sneak/fight to get it!” Makes total sense to me. It was a much more robust movie when talking about universe and character logic than TFA.
“Mike is the so I’m he in”
This is your statement with all the things I disagree with removed.
I shook my head so hard I almost broke my neck when I was watching this movie. The illogical inconsistencies aren’t as bad as TPM, but damn.
He liked a movie and he’s wetting his pants?
He’s pretty much on point save for being a bit harsh at the end, but I think the larger point is that plinkett is usually about objective criticism and most complaints here were about tonal choices that they didn’t happen to prefer, but not actual flaws.
I would hope we could disagree here without saying “agree with RLM = upvote, disagree = downvote” because I think they just really saw R1 with the wrong lenses or something because most of the complaints were that Rogue One is bad at being a movie it was never trying to be.
Close but… it wasn’t self-righteous enough. Need an SMH or something in there.
I feel like Jay must have been behind the scenes on this one. I felt like this movie was just trying to plug some plot holes of the original story and spin off star wars as an action/sci-fi “not for kids” experience.
And there’s plenty to criticize about the movie, but I’m not sure having an ending with closure and character development are fair.
I liked that the movie was self contained (all the characters die) and tried to answer some questions like “why can you destroy a giant star base by hitting a poorly defended ventilation system?” or the whole “how did the boffins die?” thing.
Was it a fantastic movie? No, not so much. I think they are playing around with the franchise to see what works. And I think it did suffer from lack of character depth, over reliance on shootings and explosions, and lack of strong villain roles (although I liked how the rebellion wasn’t all artificially sugary sweet good guys).
I mean there’s a reason they called it a “Star Wars story”. It’s not gonna be A-list material.
The thing is that JW might be fun as schlock, I didn’t like it because JP is actually a real good real movie, but Mike seemed to like it as a dumb movie, I guess they went into Rogue One expecting a dumb schlock movie, but since they got an actual good real movie they go “this movie is bad at being a dumb movie”.
TFA wasn’t worthless like JW, Kylo is a clever idea for a villain because he’s basically scary because he’s a sociopath playing pretend at being a “cool villain” but there were major problems with TFA, Rogue One didn’t have any major problems for being the movie it was trying to be.
JJ was the one who fucked that up. JJ didn’t want to be bothered with worrying about that so I guess he kinda set it as the new canon that “things are only as far away as is convenient for the plot” but I agree that they should be more consistent with actual rules, but I wasn’t paying attention too much to this but maybe there are edits such that Rogue One doesn’t travel too fast but rather they just edit around the travel time.
I know right? Why does anybody care about why or how anything happens in movies? They should just get to the ending and say “god machine fixed the problem” that would be good enough for me, but not these dumb nitpickers.
The script wasn’t week, and the context is important, but ESB wouldn’t work if it were a stand-alone, IMO those who say fans of this are fanboys are weird because TFA was fanboy fanservice and this was “a movie with it’s own story it was trying to tell, told well” and yet it catches flak.
“I always agree with Mike and Jay, but now I’m going to satirize one of the many people who didn’t, because there is no possibility that many people liked this movie for any reason other that they are dumb and whiny and worthy of my satire.”
Well yes, but I meant like… modern.
This was way better and way less fanservicey than ST 09. I will say the mid-film scene with DV seemed like a studio meddling to “make it more star wars-y” I would not be surprised if that scene was not in the original script as we saw it in the final film.
Some of the best Star Wars came from other people trying to explain away stupid ideas George Lucas had.
Don’t feed the trolls. It just attracts more of them.
Neal Degrasse Tyson didn’t like the hyperspace from within the planet’s either. According to him, the effect of this would be to destroy the planet’s atmosphere immediately. But hey, it’s s movie. Maybe what they did was extremely dangerous which is why it’s not usually done.
Hey yeah, that’d be great. And then when she goes off to act like a hero and get the plans for the death star, it marks a turning point in her character – where before she was always out to make a profit. And for the first time she finally does something as a selfless act and it ends up getting her killed.
I think they call that… an arc? You just wrote a better character in 5 minutes than they did in however many trips to the bathroom it took for them to shit out the Rogue One script.
I’ve said it elsewhere on these boards, but it sounds like they saw it with a hardcore fan boy audience that made a lot of noise throughout the screening at every bit of fan service and this coloured their view of the movie. I say this as someone who thought TFA was just OK, about the standard of a Marvel movie, so I was surprised by the lack of criticism it received in the original HITB review.
Well, if it really was the story somebody wanted to tell, why the heavy re-shoots? And I know, usually re-shoots aren’t a big thing in the film industry. But from what people told me it’s like they heavily changed the last act, changed complete character arcs and even the looks of that Forrest Whitaker character. And all this inbetween the international trailer and the movie release, that smells more like studio interference than a unique vision of a director.
Both movies are cash grabs the moment Disney got the rights to the franchise.
Both movies are made to sell FOREMOST toys and merchandise on christmas. Every year they plaster those Star Wars logos into every amazon article imaginable.
I heavily disagree with those guys and other critics all the time, you don’t see me running around with torch and forklift.
You like the movie, that’s great, but why do you need Mike & Jay’s approval?
Yes, the Death Star’s as big as a small moon. If he’d said “shoot the exhaust port” they would have been like “ok … can you narrow it down a little?”
oh, come on; we not always talkin like some weird technician: “Fick den schmerz weg” is totaly fine, exept nobody says that, even the germans called it FTPA. so, no, we dont have a word or sentence for everything, but we *do* take anything serious and we dont understand sarcasm and irony *at all*.
same here. thnx.
and be in a theater full with “fuck, yeah!”-shouting idiots among them. not the best enviroment to enjoy a film without distraction.
ups. I should read comments before I post myself 😉
yes bubs, we know; you HATED it! we get it already.
you always need the approval from somebody you love…
I beg to differ; EVERY SW-movie is relying on the first one. even the fucking prequels. aNewHope is the ONLY one, that works as a standalone.
it adds detail to a story already told. works for me.
“I guess they went into Rogue One expecting a dumb schlock movie, but
since they got an actual good real movie they go “this movie is bad at
being a dumb movie”.”
I think that you, sir, pretty much nailed it. thnx.
? there is some time going by, when jyn and the others from Jedha are on their way *in hyperspace* to Eadu.
JJ made the galaxy look like a single solar-system. everything felt so fucking tiny.
Why on earth would they have to understand the people who liked the movie? This is THEIR opinion of Rogue One. I came here to see their opinion, not the general consensus of movie. You don’t agree with them, it’s not the end of the world.
Not everyone liked Rogue One. I sure as hell didn’t.
and it was extremly dangerous, because there were getting crushed from the debris of exploding Jedha. there werent even finished with the calculations for the hyperspace-jump.
I’ll do you one better then…
After a fakeout or two, Forrest Whitaker is revealed to be a traitor in the final act. The reasoning behind his betrayal? He believes that the Death Star blowing up a planet is the best way to inspire a full scale rebellion across the galaxy. In other words, his bitterness and radical politics have finally destroyed his moral compass, and essentially turned him to the Dark Side. It would be the flip side of the coin to Darth Vader’s own corruption, which led him to believe that unbound authoritarian power is the only way to “end this destructive conflict, and bring order to the galaxy.”
And if we go the route of giving Jyn and Saw a history together, it could be a personal betrayal as well as a grand betrayal of the cause. That moment of betray is the seed of a great scene, and would fuel thorniest, morally murkiest Star Wars theme to date. After all, Saw is sort of correct: the empire blowing up a planet would be a damn good recruiting tool for lots of citizens on the fence. It would also echo Stalin’s math of revolution (“One death is a tragedy; one million is a statistic.”), and show how monsters can easily arise from flowery sentiments about liberty and justice. Poetically, it would be the shifty-eyed imperial defector who takes Saw down in the end.
Star Wars doesn’t just have to be about gay robots and space ninjas. They can take chances, but Disney went just about the safest route they could have, given the story. A bunch of rogues stealing Death Star plans is the perfect setup to dig deep into the idea of rebellion, and show some of the contradictions, internal conflicts and mistrust inherent in one. It’s gonna be great!
So the answer is yes
I agree that the movie is marked with the ‘cake-icing’ decadence afforded by a reality that star wars is now a mass-produced junkfood and Rogue is full of fodder for fanboys…
Star Wars Hope+Empire were brilliant, thanks in most part I believe to the adversity undergone in their creation. You can’t measure the whole of star wars by the sum of its parts. That is to say, for instance, a lot of people prefer the ‘puppet’ effects that are marketed more strongly in the new movies. But the OG Star Wars was not one part puppets, one part witty quips, add water and stir.
It was blood, sweat and tears that made it great.
Its helpful when trying to apply formulaic measurements / modus operandi to Hollywood blockbuster film to remember the purpose in the mind of the creators. Above all for Hollywood the raison d’etre is $$$$$$$$ every time. But that’s the common denominator being used. You need to ‘divide by money-lust’ to reach the gooey insides of any blockbuster. If you can’t follow my meaning you’re probably on the opposite end of the spectrum.
Rogue’s existence is side-story or die. It exists only to be a secondary watch for anyone that needs a visual companion to the scrolling text at the beginning of Hope.
Following Plinkett’s rubric…
Good movie = Characters + Story + Emotion
Then the results are subjective to the Nth degree.
1. do you like the characters? Honestly they’re fine. They’re not as deadpan as prequel characters. And in saying so I’d like to apply to the characters another test that Plinkett has invented to appraise script quality. ‘find a word to describe characters without referencing what they wear or their job – as if you have never seen the movie before’
I also like to think of this test in terms of character growth as well…
Well Jyn grows from a hopeless survivor to hopeful solution-minded, underdog battler.
Cassian grows from being a ruthless renegade to an again hopeful supporter.
The villains remain the same as Hope. The heavily flawed empire, lead by Tarkin is also driven by Vader as in Hope. Both are presented as merciless. Tarkin is presented as blinded by his extreme unwavering faith in the empire as before. Darth is presented as an insurmountable destroyer.
The only problem I find with the new characters is the difficulty I have in remembering their names. In that instance they fail a huge test of memorability.
E.g. Jedi-Monk. definitely wise and spirited, cant remember his name but he was great, entertaining and emotive.
Jedi-Monk’s warrior friend. Again a great dedicated comrade. Can’t remember his name.
Forest Whitaker = paranoid, disillusioned freak who had hope but lost it. Can’t remember his name.
2. do you like the story? The story is sound and reasonable, if you view it as simply ‘side-story only’ as intended and not as a standalone entry. Star wars films are all made, now especially, with the intention of being episodic. So this film requires you to purchase OG trilogy to comprehend if you’re tantalised OR be an OG fanboy who will want to buy new memorabilia. (translation $$$$$$$ OR $$$$$$$$). What would have made the film more critically independent? Probably keeping it ‘darker’ before the ‘new’ disneyish edits were introduced. But that would mean less $$$$ so I understand… but still 🙁
3. Emotion. Again this depends… if you like the characters. Then how can you not feel the motional heartstrings as they sacrifice themselves for a greater cause, in an objective they know they will never see the results of. And also in that they know their sacrifice is not a guarantee of success. That raises the tension. Overall, all fanboys KNOW that the plans are eventually retrieved, but on the individual level the audience’s relationship with each character, we don’t know whether their death will count for anything, and so we ‘hope’. On top of that there is plenty of witty banter between the characters. Plinkett shows a scene where there are some storm troopers shooting and being shot at. But that scene is not representative of most of the battle scenes in rogue. Yes there is shooting and explosions, but IMO there are actually quite a lot of them filled with banter contrary to what Plinkett shows. Right now Jedi-monk’s encounter with the stormtroopers comes to mind where his buddy then defends him with his laser machine gun. They have some great banter that really highlights their friendship AS well as their difference in views (spirituality/force vs brute force)
Overall I think on some scales all boxes are ticked but this again depends on your personal scales for rating these three elements. For me, and to come to my point FINALLY, if you understand what the point of this movie is (by dividing by money-lust), this movie is fine and does what it had to do.
I mean we all knew what had to happen in the plot was simple ‘get deathstar plans, even if it means dying’
So to make a feature length out of that simple idea is fun and fine but you can’t expect an epic-length entry in the saga.
Now to dissect the true issues in the film. I too was annoyed at the strange guttural orgasm sounds from the fanboy sitting next to me. If I hadn’t been expecting it, it would have taken me out of the moment.
So for my part… Rogue’s biggest mistake was killing Forest Whitaker for no reason early on. Why didn’t they develop that storyline more and have him die later with everyone else, at no loss to anyone. The death happens regardless… so why not cash ($$$$$) in on the character development. His ‘loss of hope’ could have been his undoing later on rather than earlier and they could have really pushed that line a lot harder making him the anti-hoper. In the end … a new hope is the real recovery made by the rebels. Ah what could have been.
And the biggest problem with Star Wars overall since after the OG trilogy is that we don’t see enough NEW aliens. We see new planets filled with old aliens and characters we’ve already met. In the OG each planet had new aliens and culture undiscovered somewhat. The mos eisly pub was a random cross section of the galaxy far far away. And every person in there was a unique alien…. So now when you go to new bars and pubs, you see some new aliens but a lot of ‘easter-eggs’ that just make the galaxy feel smaller. And EVERY easter egg makes the galaxy, smaller and smaller and smaller.
Okay cool there’s blue milk… but now the question is…. Is blue milk the galaxy’s coca-cola or is everything so close together that blue milk just spills in to other planets.
That is the double edged blade with every easter egg. On one side fans love it so ‘$$$$$$$’ but as the series goes on… each easter egg will condense the galaxy until it is a solid egg-shaped black hole.
Its 2am and I am writing massive trashy paragraphs so hopefully they make sense. If not please feel free to tear up my post and tell me why I am wrong.
Good question… its sort of like asking… Can the ever be a great story about superman that doesn’t involve kryptonite. Its the only plot device that can raise the stakes.
As with the death star… Is it the only plot device now that can offer a real threat in the galaxy? Something has to raise the stakes… and how can you raise them more than blowing up a whole solar system… ?
I think yes you could make one…. but the result of the antagonist’s attack would always have to be SOME type of planetary destruction. So you could remove it by having Kylo Ren unleash legions of stormtroopers to raise a whole planet’s cities. Anything less would pale in comparison to past threats.
The next star wars will have to either have some kind of death star plot device or alter the star wars formula dramatically and split audience opinions. How… is baffling to me!
I have to agree with you.
But I think the Plinkett series of videos since they struck gold by being so right about the prequels now capitalises on being ‘hater porn’. And can you blame them? Much how we rush in to see rogue and new star wars movies we also eagerly await to hear what plinkett hates about star wars movies. What good would it be if plinkett liked a star wars sequel/prequel. But I think that this video was only 7 minutes long and the episode 1 plinkett review was 10, 10 minute pieces on one film speaks volumes.
He didn’t have enough bad things to say to make an epic video.
its hardly an original story. I read it at the beginning of New Hope.
totally agree joe and everfalling.
so good that someone else could do the thinking for you
wtf lol that is the best review I have ever read
how could a movie that takes place 5 minutes before a new hope not use what was invented 40 years ago and how could it add anything new?
I mean audiences would probably be more confused and plinkett would just say how he hates that they changed too much so that it doesn’t match up with Hope.
truth be told they did add the plothole fix and Jedha and a cool beach planet plus some new characters… before removing literally everything they created so that the galaxy is where its meant to be at the beginning of Hope.
To swing one’s penis, making it bump against something.
i saw this. it was called Guardians of the Galaxy
The first two acts were so uninteresting.. here is how to fix it 😉
Make it a story, where Jyn is with the empire and thinks her father is doing good for the empire. So the empire places her in that prison transport to be rescued from the rebels, so that she would lead the empire to the rebels/whitaker. Then Mon Mothma gives her the mission to steal the death star plans (as in the first trailer), where Jyn learns about the true nature of her fathers work. So she leans more towards the rebel side and does not notify the empire about the rebels whereabouts. Then let Cassian kill her father while on that mission (Cassian´s character was written so bad.. he is supposed to be a stone cold killer, until he isn´t), which makes Jyn question her loyalties again.. I think temptation and changing sides has always worked well in Star Wars. Maybe in the end let Jyn and Cassian acquire the plans and let them have a standoff on that platform. Jyn wants to do good and be on the rebel side but is still too pissed about Cassian having killed her father, maybe even shoots him, but in the end lets Cassian escape with the plans, after Cassian tells her that (enter revelation here) … I don´t know, but the first two acts were really not that interesting and didn´t make much sense to me, story- and characterwise. It is a bit frustrating, because there was quality film-making involved
yeah but if thats true wtf is the point of the death star. The empire could just rig a ship to leave a planets atmosphere at lightspeed and save their money
Suspension of disbelief
Han has to finish calculating his route in a new hope before they jump. It still works. these guys had nothing to lose
action is a good checkmark for an action film
lol the blast shielf helmets with the sabres. classic stupid prequel galaxy-shrinking via easter egg
I don’t particularly care where the heist takes place. It’s the how that’s important. Heists are all about meticulous planning by expert thieves, with lots of surprise developments that force those plans to be altered on-the-fly. With this film, the mission was improvisational jazz from beginning to end, littered with explosions that destroyed opportunities to build tension in a scene.
way too picky. that detail is so insignificant. darth could literally say anything. he really didnt say much at all in the OT. so they need to make it up not rehash stuff he’s said before.
regardless, if that was made, there would still be a plinkett video to tell you why it was bad
“Let alone ignoring how much praise TFA gets when the characters all act like people in a movie.”
I’m starting to think Disney actually did slip them a check on TFA.
It’s not insignificant. It’s a symptom of the disease of Disney Wars. They make him cartoonish.
Really, imdb lists quite a lot of factual errors with this movie.
That’s true, but a lot of people liked TFA when they watched it the first time and changed their opinion the second time around. It’s not uncommon, and there’s nothing wrong with that.
The same might have happened to Mike and Jay, maybe that’s why the TFA Plinkett review felt more like they were taking the movie down a peg or two.
The narrative makes no sense? It’s the most straight forward, three act story of the franchise since the 1977 film.
sorry, what?!? if you meant “schwafeln”, that means just talking bullshit aka “schwafel nicht!” as a response to somebody whos say nothing about something or something about nothing or little about a lot (thats a quote).
I was thinking more in terms of over-explanation, I can understand if there’s a barrage of things in a movie that don’t make a lick of sense, like Prometheus (although this movie’s failure had different reasons).
But to say “I didn’t enjoy the movie unless someone explain to me how the heroes travelled from point A to B” is a bit autistic.
I think, as others have noted, they caught an opening night screening and were put off by an overly effusive audience response.
Mike realized for the first time in his life what a nerd he is.
And again, noting their response to the trailer, they were determined not to like the film before even seeing it.
I think you miss the point of the “describe the characters” test. Saying that “so and so was hopeless and now they are hopeful” doesn’t really tell me ANYTHING about that character as a person. Saying “Han Solo is a brash, cock sure ladies man/bad boy, but with a heart of gold” helps me to imagine him as a person.
Because they gonna re-use He-Man action figures for the toy line.
Ford outlives Fischer and star wars outlives us all.
Why does RLM keep defending Rey in these Rogue One reviews? No, people DID NOT connect with Rey as a a character. I might have connected with Rey if she had not mastered the Force without any training at all. Perhaps then there would have been some real tension in her showdown with Kylo Ren; or during the interrogation scene with Kylo Ren; or when she tried to escape from Kylo Ren.
I might have connected with Rey if she wasn’t perfectly skilled in the martial arts – better than the old Chinese guy in Rogue One. Maybe then there would have been some tension when she fought the thugs and the Stormtroppers. I might have connected with Rey if she was not a perfect pilot who could fly (and fix) the Millennium Falcon better than Han Solo. I might have connected with Rey if she was not better than Finn at shooting down Tie Fighters, even though Finn actually had some training and experience in such situations while she had none. Maybe then, the battle with the Tie Fighters would have actually had some tension.
All tension with Rey disappeared the moment we realized that she could beat anyone at anything in any situation. In contrast, Luke was an innocent, flawed kid who made all sorts of mistakes. That’s why we were so proud of him when he destroyed the Death Star. If Luke had been as perfect as Rey, then we wouldn’t have cared at all.
If Luke was had been so strong in the force right from the beginning, and could basically shoot anything with perfect accuracy, then there wouldn’t have been any tension in the trench-run scene. If Luke had been so strong in the force right at the beginning of A New Hope, and had mastered the lightsabre as quickly as Rey, without any training, then there wouldn’t have been any dramatic tension in his duel with Vader.
kinda too late, “skin deep” did this already in the glorious 80′: yTube/0XOKvFyNquM. and yeah, everybody who saw this unfunny flic, and thought it were actually funny, wanted some of these condoms. well, *thats* a film which I hate.
Thank you for presuming to speak for all people, everywhere.
Was Rey perfect when she nearly got everyone killed by letting the Rathtars loose? Was that not a huge mistake that she made?
Why is training so essential in being able to use the force? What was the extent of Luke’s training before he blew up the Death Star? A quickie lesson in deflecting laser bolts with a lightsaber. That’s it. Why can’t a person discover some aspects of using the force by themselves? It’s like saying a runner from a remote Kenyan village can’t run fast unless he has a track coach to train him how to run.
And who could forget about little 8-year-old Anakin Skywalker, who was able to build advanced, jet-propelled pod racers, complex droids, race those pods against professional racers and win, pilot starfighters and destroy enemy ships from the inside, escaping unharmed? All with no training himself. But we can’t accept Rey getting the better of a frazzled, wounded, unfocused Kylo Ren for a few seconds.
Rey never shot down any Tie Fighters
Why do people like you keep trying to convice others they DIDNT like TFA. TFA was a fun enjoyable movie with fun characters…see that word fun is imporant…Was it very similar to ANH? Yes…but it had to be cuz the fuckin chinless git ruinted star wars so they had to be sure to get the star wars feel back.
Also, Luke had zero training with Force and then is capable fo useing the force to guide a rocket to an exaust port…Luke was never shown to have any lightsaber training…Luke was never shown how to move objects with the force and yet is shown doing it…Luke was a farmboy and then there he is outgunning trained soldiers…how come you dont bring this stuff up?
you LOVE plinkett?!? what kind of pervert are you?
of course it is cuz he just shot down all your points
Thanks, because it’s true. If you have to refer to the prequels to defend your position, you’ve already lost.
Butt hurt fanboy.
I think you got that mixed up. I enjoyed TFA.. you’re the butt hurt one..you keep blatheing on about training when none of the original movies supports what you say. In fact you could argue the training is not that important according to Yoda in ESB. It is more about belief..”unlearn what you have learned” “do or do not” “only different in your mind” and not about lightsaber form V or some shit like that
her abilities *were* pretty far-fetched, even by SW-standards.
I agree that Rogue One is icing on the cake, and as someone who used to eat icing directly out of the container I was fine with the movie. I will admit that there were a lot of “why are they doing this” and “wouldn’t it make more sense to” moments, and absolutely no character building, but I still enjoyed the movie. I think one reason I enjoyed it was that I had lower expectations than I had for the other Star Wars movies. I always thought of Rogue One as an “add-on”.
Would I be willing to see it again in the theater? Yup.
If they never made the movie would I have been upset? Nah.
Dude. Seriously. Your hate for Rey will lead you to the darkside.
Some things in TFA were ok, but Rey’s perfection was not one of them. If her character had showed some kind of vulnerability or weakness, I would have sympathized wit her more. The agenda was just TOO OBVIOUS.
RIP, carrie, we will never forget you.
I am out.
FUCK! this news truly breaks my heart! never thought that, but HER dead gives me the tears.
THANK-YOU THANK-YOU THANK-YOU! I am not trying to be a troll/asshole. I just really didn’t like the character or the actor, and I feel she was picked for the wrong reasons. Same thing with Finn. That doesn’t mean I’m racist or hate women!!!
🙁 She died.
Oh come on…. Daisy is a really nice person, but I think they could have gotten better.
Rey never shot down any Tie Fighters? I could have sworn she did. In any case, I’m sure she would have been better than Finn if she tried. The scene was basically ripped off from A New Hope were Luke was the novice shooter and Han was the experienced one.
You should lay off them smokes. Clearly it’s the clickbait and online rants that wins you elections.
Better dust off that CG Leia…
The Ewok flicks were good and didn’t have a Death Star.
jah, a pretty forced one (haha)
can we let death-jokes aside? just this time, please?
hm. on the other hand, she would make jokes about it. ok, fine, whatever.
I think SillyBomb confused it with the Dutch verb ‘swaffelen’ which means exactly what he said. It’s a fun pastime, especially when you step up from knocking objects to knocking unsuspecting people 🙂
easy. in the SW-universe, H-bombs arent discovered yet. right?
ah, thanks for that.
If it’s like CGI Yoda in the prequels, they’re going to decide they like the CGI one better, and go back and stick it over the original in VII for the DVD.
Nah but seriously, 60 is too young to die. *sadness*
Rey doesn’t just shoot down the Tie Fighter.
Fin’s turret locks up facing in one direction. He can’t aim.
Not seeing the Tie Fighter, not knowing its location in space, she positions THE WHOLE GOD DAMN MILLENNIUM FALCON so that the gun is aimed dead straight at the pursuing fighter – at which point Fin presses the trigger.
She doesn’t aim the gun – she aims the whole damn ship.
And she aims the bottom (ventral) side of the ship to boot. And then pulls the whole ship out of a stall by turning it on a dime.
What else did you expect from a Mary Sue?
To aim and shoot and miss like Luke did when he was shooting Tie Fighters using Falcon’s turrets?
As for Luke’s ability and training…
Luke is trained by Yoda in various Jedi arts and skills. Which is when he is trained to move objects with the Force.
Luke is trained by Obi Wan – explicitly to use the light saber WHILE BLINDFOLDED.
I.e. He is trained to use the Force to hit a moving target without looking at it. By “stretching his feelings” until he can “almost see” the target.
Which is exactly what he does when he turns of the targeting computer and hits that exhaust port.
This will be a year long remembered. For its shittyness.
That’s a great idea! We can have a princess WITH facial animation that way 😉
Too soon, but I laughed anyway 🙂 I betcha the toll booth people are already working on it. Sad.
Yeah, it is a sad thing when someone passes. She did have a long bout with addiction that might have weakened her heart.
RLM’s recent cheap shots at Carrie Fisher looking pretty assholish about now…
Yeah, she would have. That was part of her charm. That, and her in that bikini… 😉
Mine began with the first film (unadulterated version), faltered when Han and Leia started walking around on the astroid, and ended when Grover from Sesame Street showed up.
i personally thought it was a nice change of pace from Kathleen Turner jokes
I can’t believe Carrie Fisher is dead. Oh wait, yes I can.
Richard Adams, author of Watership Down, also died today. He was 96.
I have this nagging feeling that we’ve hit some statistical milestone this year.
Some… global population size meets six degrees of separation thing where there are so many people out there who are relevant to our culture that there is always someone at the death’s door.
I wonder… We WILL eventually hit the point where most of us will be losing someone we like or care for – every damn day.
I wonder what will all that continuous stream of loss do to us. As a species… as a culture…
I never said anything about Daisy, but since you bring it up…
I think she was perfect for the role. They needed someone who had a childlike wonder about them, but old enough to do the fighting and stuff. As far as I’m concerned, Daisy hit it out of the park. Also, the fact that she is an unknown is good, too, because it allows the character to stand out more. Who do you think would have been better?
Not really. The entire Star Wars universe is run on the biggest plot device in movie history. Any argument about “who can do what and how can that happen” can be negated by these two words:
The only other “plot device” that can rival The Force is God.
I just want to say. If 2016 was a person. I would give it the beating of its life.
If 2016 was a person then it would easily beat the crap out of you. Spit on your bloody, broken body and then murder you too. Just saying…
So in other words. 2016 is like Michael Myers and Jason Voorhees.
Today is an incredibly sad day. Carrie Fisher breathed life into my first crush and was so more than just a pretty face. Such a talent taken far too young…
I think I finally understand where RLM/Mr. Plinkett is coming from in his distaste for Rogue One. It seems to come specifically from the Disney-speak “stand alone” film. I choose to look at these “stand alone” films and even the new trilogy, like episodic TV, more so than as films that are necessarily great in their own right. They DO depend on what came before to be interesting, and that is ok. Not every film can be or need be “A New Hope” or “The Empire Strikes Back.” We clamor for more content in this Star Wars universe because of the greatness of the original trilogy and the mythology Lucas created. Perhaps one day, even later than sooner, a Star Wars film will have all the check marks of a great film in its own right, but this film was extremely enjoyable to most people and told some of the “history” of the Star Wars universe in a much more interesting and satisfying way the prequels. I do think that they could have explored the characters in Rogue One more, but we don’t need to get attached to these characters. That may be a cop out, but I appreciated the fact that these characters were expendable.
HEH! I SEE DEAD PEOPLE! AND I LIKE IT!
It’s not like RLM was making Carrie Fisher do all of that cocaine and alcohol.
Cocaine use is associated with enlarged hearts, so it was almost definitely the cause of the heart attack. At the very least it would have contributed greatly to any heart-disease she might have had from her diet. That’s what makes this even more tragic, it was for the large part quite avoidable – RIP Carrie.
Looking forward to Rich Evans’ Alien: Covenant reaction trailer……
RIP Carrie Fisher.
Star Wars is now written by social justice warriors. The story and character development take a back seat to providing powerful females roles. Without Hollywood telling women “You are somebody!”, they would shrivel into a weak blob of irrelevance. It’s the same problem with the new Ghostbusters. Comedy was an after thought. Showing a group a women could do what a group of men did was of the highest order. Movie making has gone to crap for the most part.
RIP Carrie Frances Fisher
Right, because placing the storyline almost at the same time as the founding storyline, that’s set in stone? They couldn’t have come up with a new idea?
I honestly wonder if you people would know a good story if it turned into a cockroach on its birthday.
… for the same reason they both kind-of liked the VaJayJay Abrams’ Star Trek reboot: when you’ve gone a long time without something, and someone gives you at least a semblance of that thing, you go easy on it. This also explains how the Hershey corporation continues to make ‘chocolate’.
TFA is indefensible. If they’d released these two awful, forgettable movies in reverse order they’d have probably approached them the same way.
Basically, they hated the first movie too, but they didn’t realize it. Only their brains did.
I love that people pretend that’s some wacked-out conspiracy theory, when the authors of this pile of shit are all over social media talking about being “social justice warriors”.
Every neutered man I know: “I’m taking my girls to see Star Wars!” And then “Hey man, there wasn’t a lot of political or social commentary in that movie! Just tiny women bossing men around, mastering The Force in five minutes, winning lightsaber duels with masters, and beating up squads of clone troopers bare-handed! Off to my man cave!”
This isn’t Reddit.
So I just got back from the theater – saw Rogue One. I have to agree with RLM’s criticisms of it. I found myself quite bored through the entirety of the movie. Even when they died, I did not care, I had no connection to any of the characters. It just did nothing to connect.
Haven’t heard anyone say it’s the best Star Wars movie ever. Saying it was the ‘worst Star Wars movie since the prequels” just means you like TFA more than this one. Mr Plinket can blather on until he’s red in the face, but the fact that RLM liked the TFA but hated R1 is totally inconsistent.
When RLM said that Rogue One should have been more clever, endearing, and lighthearted, it was frankly irrational. It would be the same if they said that they were disappointed with the movie Schlindler’s List, because they expected a lighthearted movie about WWII….
who’s gonna tell em star wars isn’t real?
i fell asleep during most of the death scenes.
yes, more people died this year and will continue to do so each year until most of the baby boomers are dead, that’s a statistical fact. Also, life expectancy for white people is going down, and it’s likely only going up for POC until it reaches equal level to whites (if it even does so) and then will likely stagnate there. Lost my dad and grandma this year on top of everyone else.. sucks man
Are you really that dense? The point is that without that foundation, it’s nothing. It adds nothing. It is just that foundation presented to you in modern pop-culture terms with modern CGI, modern pacing, and modern music.
It’s your own mortality, and that’s all: the people who were famous when you were a kid are now dying. It happens to every generation. Have the dignity to not post “RIP Princess Leia” with a teary emoticon.
Seriously. Like she was cruising, and then read the RLM review and her heart just couldn’t take it. The coke didn’t do it, Plinkett did!
In addition, from what I got from the trailers, I hoped that they had to sneak into the imperial base or even the death star by using the imperial uniform they wore. In my imagination, they then would have to interact with imperial officers and that suspense might come from their effort not to get detected as rebels. I hoped the big Vader scene would be – after getting past all the officers – that they would enter the room, where the plans are.. and there is vader! (remember the scene from the trailer where vader checks out the death star plans? Not in the movie). And this is just really me, but I hoped for some bantering between Jyn/Cassian and Vader, maybe a bit like the one Hobbit movie, where the allpowerful dragon and the hobbit are bantering back and forth, so that Jyn/Cassian would have to come up with some really clever lines to talk or trick their way of the situation, maybe even sell each other out in front of vader, which would create enough diversion to escape.. I dont know something like that.
Ep.1? The underwatercity was cool, admit it.
Mr. Plinkett laying down the truth bombs…
They weren’t just making fun of her for the substance abuse – they attacked her looks and age, too.
Never said they caused her death. Saying it was an asshole thing to make fun of a person’s disease.
She’s gone to Cloud City for real.
Oh wait, that’s not funny.
I think this is so spot on.
She was pretty open about it herself. I don’t think she would have minded if she heard them. She was a pretty cool lady, mental illness and all.
Anyone see that Blade Runner teaser? I definitely got the feeling that Harrison Ford was doing the same beat of “It’s true, all of it. The Force, the Repilicants, everything…”
“It’s true, all of it. Hollywood is crazy about rebooting franchises now! And they’ll pay you a fuckload of money for doing it! I might even make another Indiana Jones movie! Make it fucking rain!”
Also, hey how about that “Alien: Covenant” trailer? I was thinking with the shower scene “Jay would really like that.”
That would be indeed interesting, but then you would have 5 million nerds raising a petition that Vader should have “felt” Jyn’s fear through the Force™.
You can’t win in the Star Wars universe.
The whole defense of the prequel trilogy for the last 15 years has been based on trashing the OT.
She made fun it as well.
hehe you are right. somewhere i read it´s harder to please a star wars fan than pleasing a woman..
What is a “beat”?
With the group of persons going to get the plans, I expected a group dynamic more akin to “Guardians of the Galaxy,” where you end up rooting for everyone, and they all are pieces, that form a whole puzzle.
Unfortunately, that isn’t what happens in Rogue One. They keep pushing Jyn and Cassian as our two leads, but they just feel like someone moving cardboard standees around most of the time.
I think this is one of director Gareth Edward’s things he needs to work on. ‘Monsters’ and ‘Godzilla (2014)’ had this issue, where the lead character seemed little more than a pawn to move the audience where the action was most of the time, as if the surroundings and supporting characters, were the more interesting.
That seems to be what happens in Rogue One: The rest of the crew had dynamics that actually entertained me:
– The two guys who were almost like brothers, a ying-yang of one trusting the Force, the other trusting his weaponry
– K-2SO shows another decent droid performance, that keeps us entertained
– The Imperial-turned-good-guy was a bit like Finn, but his was the more interesting, given he’s in new territory, and has to be the go-between to the mission going through.
I feel there was some fan-pandering (that last scene with Vader felt so much like someone’s fanfiction. I almost expected Vader to start slinging one-liners, given the one he leveled at Krennic).
Yes. I think you touch on something that’s important here. Action is important for an action film, and that’s why this movie feels so off as a Star Wars film. Star Wars aren’t war films, or really even action films. They’re adventure films. There’s a subtle difference, but Rogue One has more in common with The Guns of Navarone than with Star Wars.
I liked The Force Awakens and Rogue One just fine, but I won’t deny both have flaws.
It seems that TFA is filled with great, fun characters inside just an ok movie.
And R1 is a good movie filled with just ok characters (K2SO excluded, because he’s awesome!).
There wasn’t really any defense of the PT on my radar until TFA was coming out.
You missed his point.
You can like a film or not. That is the subjective nature of criticism.
The objective factor of criticism is quantifiable: structure, dialog, etc.
What RLM did in their review of Rogue One was try to pass their subjective opinion of why they thought Rogue One failed as objective analysis.
I’m glad someone understands such a basic argument
Fun, sitcom characters. The exchanges are worthy of that “nerd” show on CBS that I can’t remember, not SW.
How about if drug and alcohol abuse was a person? These people didn’t have to die this young. They chose to.
Yes. And she looked fine 10 years ago. She came apart because she abused herself with drugs and alcohol while continually lying about being clean. She wasn’t outspoken, she was drunk. She wasn’t brilliant she was coked-out. She’s not a survivor, she’s dead. That needs to be talked about BEFORE stroking it to a chainmail bikini.
“Disease”. You mean self-inflicted chemical dependency?
The bitch has big eyes and a big mouth/smile and big drippy tears. Great character.
haha! “Off to my man cave”… fucking cucks.
You’re faith in Disney will lead you to the retardside.
It was a shit movie with a shit plot and shit characters who said shit sitcom lines.
It was shit.
Luke didn’t “guide” a rocket. He just pulled the trigger at the right time. With the help of Obi-wan and The Force.
I recall he got his ass kicked by a man in a suit when he lightsaber fought.
Luke moved the x-wing and rocks with his mind.
And guess what… HE FUCKING WAS TRAINED BY FUCKING YODA.
Stop making finger paintings with shit. TFA is trash. If you like it you are shit for brains.
Disney will continue to count on you for your $upport.
retarded. dumb. stupid. not thinking. making excuses. for shit.
The production design in most of the PT was very innovative and cool. Some of it was total shit like that diner.
Empire doesn’t have a Death Star. And it’s the best one.
I despise the Disney Wars and won’t see any of them after TFA and a couple minutes of Reshoot One but you could easily go for a more psychological character-driven story like Empire. Except… you would need actual characters. Which they aren’t interested in investing thought or time in.
I think of action as what happens outside of dialog. Talking and doing stuff.
Bladerunner 2049 may be another good example (besides Dredd) of a necessary reboot. Bladerunner is littered with flaws, but the cyberpunk setting was cool. I’m not crazy about Harrison Ford being in the new one but I’ll still watch anything directed by Dennis Villeneuve. The trailer was vague, but still intriguing in comparison to Alien Covenant, an unnecessary rehashing of Alien and also one of the shittiest trailers of all time.
I got halfway through before turning it off. A sloppy trailer to an unnecessary clone of Alien.
‘The point is that without that foundation, it’s nothing. It adds
nothing. It is just that foundation presented to you in modern
pop-culture terms with modern CGI, modern pacing, and modern music.’
This is also an excellent description of TFA. Which begs the question: why the distinction between these two?
I think him being in it ruins the ambiguous ending to Bladerunner where you don’t know if he’s a replicant or not, which was (in my op) the strongest story element. I think it’s a necessary reboot since Bladerunner is an imperfect film with a great cyberpunk setting. Dennis V. is also one of the greatest directors of our time, so I believe he can make it work even with ol’ grampa Han Solo in the mix. (seriously can’t he just retire already)
I enjoyed this more than the Force Awakens review.
Damn it…! You’re right. Oh, well.
Every death was the same: bright white light and then gone. SO GRITTY. SO REAL.
I think Villeneuve has a much better grip on story and themes than Scott. So I think it will be an overall improvement over the original. I also prefer sequels over reboots or remakes, so this one can hopefully expand the story.
It’s hilarious that the movie absolutely does not stand up on its own. Anyone who hasn’t seen A New Hope would have no idea what the fuck is happening.
The delicious icing though….
Looks like a sequel/reboot to be, like TFA except hopefully not as lame.
All reviews are subjective. You guys came for their opinion of the movie and are upset that it differs from yours. You aren’t going to agree with them 100% of the time. Get over it.
Fuck IMDB, fuck Rotten Tomatoes, Crank is a fucking masterpiece.
I think your context argument is a pretty shoddy one. The context of Star Wars was the point of this movie and it executed it well. You could apply the same faulty logic to say that Empire Strikes Back was a bad film without Star Wars’ context.
I’m sorry you hackfrauds, but I think your cynicism got the better of you this time around, it’s really disappointing. Love you guys anyway.
“Forgive me if I seem a little… FORCEful.”
“I am a CUT above the rest!”
“Hold on; I wish to SABER this moment!”
I think that the problem with The Force Awakens review was that Mike kinda/sorta liked the movie, whereas with the other mostly-positive Plinkett review (Titanic), Mike seemed to /love/ the movie (while still showing plenty of insight into how it manipulated the audience’s reactions). He had strong feelings regarding Titanic. TFA, not so much.
Not as shoddy as CGI Moff Tarkin. Was this Rogue One or Polar Express 2?
I’m sure everyone over on Breitbart thought Schindler’s List was a lighthearted fictional yarn.
RIP Debbie Reynolds
I thought the Electoral College selected Drug and Alcohol Abuse as a Person to be our next president?
The events of the last couple of days have brought to mind a scene from “Singin’ in the Rain”, where Kathy (Debbie Reynolds) and Don (Gene Kelly) are arguing about life in the theater:
Laugh all you want, but at least the stage is a dignified profession.
What do you have to be so conceited about? You’re nothing but a shadow on film… just a shadow. You’re not flesh and blood.
If only they knew how far the Hollywood gods would go in the “shadow” department. But, Debbie and Carrie were certainly flesh-and-blood creatures, and they will be missed by the same breed.
RIP (and say “Hi” to Liz).
Follow ups from Plinkett to explain their complacency, terrible reviews, and lack of consistency are becoming a tradition! This one is just another brick in the wall if you ask me.
aannnnndd the trolling.
Does that stinkbeard extend all the way down your neck by any chance?
I’m not sure what that means. If it’s a Trump insult, he’s a well known teetotaler. If it’s just a non-sequitur then… well… i don’t know.
All of this rogue-rage is making me comfortably numb, If anything, everyone should be mad about their glowing review of “Paul” back in ’11.
Dear Mr. Plinkett,
I delight in informing you, you senile fat fuck, that you are horribly wrong. Rogue One and TFA shouldn’t be held to the same standards of characters, because TFA is part of the main saga and has to have interesting enough characters to get through three movies. These characters have to be likable, funny, and not hack frauds.
Rogue One is different. The characters here don’t need to have the same grandiose, heroic charm that characters in the other movies have (or should have), because Star Wars is really not about them. All of the people in Rogue One are fundamentally flawed characters; Jyn is dispassionate about the Rebellion, Cassian has clearly done things he regrets (as seen with the friendly fire) in fighting against the Empire, K2SO is a closet homosexual, etc. Having a movie about more ordinary characters isn’t necessarily a bad thing, especially not when the movie accomplishes telling a greater story. Not every character has to be Han Solo. Besides, even if the characters were incredibly charismatic, I guarantee some people would complain about it detracting from the heroes of the original trilogy.
My point is, Rogue One isn’t meant to be a movie about staggeringly likable heroes. If you want that, watch the OT. This is meant to be a movie about the recovery of the Death Star plans, and the characters, however flawed, that were involved. This is what the movie sets out to do, and it accomplishes this in an entertaining way. Your opinion is therefore wrong and I suggest you haul your overly cynical, overly corpulent ass away from human society and contemplate your erroneous conclusion about this film before you further trigger anyone else.
“My point is, Rogue One isn’t meant to be a movie about staggeringly likable heroes.”
You’re confusing “likable” with “memorable”. Plinkett/Mike doesn’t care if they’re likable. Some of the best characters in movie history aren’t likable (Hannibal Lecter, Magneto, Hans Landa, etc.). The problem is that none of the Rogue one characters are even memorable. Describe Asian Minigun-Guy without using the words “Asian”, “Minigun”, “Guy” or “Blind Friend”. I dare you.
IMDB just linked me to a page that said you guys hate everything… But if that’s true then how can I replace Josh?
RIP Erik Bauersfeld, 93, who played Admiral Akbar – April 3.
RIP Kenny Baker, 81, R2-D2 – Aug. 13.
That is rough.
OK, go back to your pretentious art house cinema. I’ll enjoy these movies and get my $10 worth of fun popcorn entertainment without expecting Kubrickan brilliance from movies about space wizards and 7ft. tall ape men.
Substance abuse is a disease according to every major medical institution.
I guess you’re an asshole too. Thanks for making that known.
Prequel apologetics has been a thing since May 17, 1999.
Yeah — whereas some of us wanted Mike to tear TFA a new asshole.
“It’s just popcorn entertainment”
“Here, let me explain to you the theories behind it that allow me to enjoy it”
You’re confusing coherence, competence and common sense with “Kubrickan” brilliance.
I will say it again… no one has to write essays on why the OT were good movies or why they make sense.
Is that what you believe, Don?
Of course the medical industry classify it as a disease. It removes culpability from the “patient” – which make more of them – and allows the industry to get insurance to pay for the “cure”.
Like type 2 diabetes.
So I saw the movie La La Land tonight. I will give them this, it was ambitious as fuck. Trying to do an old-fashioned style musical in 2016 is in itself is pretty ballsy move, but they really didn’t hold anything back in its execution. Whilst I think it was a bit overwrought and had an overly high opinion of itself at times it had great performances and cinematography and the story was quite good.
I was expecting it to be a super pretentious, overly sentimental, arthouse chick-flick and whilst it is totally all of those things I wasn’t expecting it to get as dark as it did in the second half and I was actually surprised by how much I related to it’s message about compromise, failure and the things that you have to sacrifice in order to become successful in a creative field, as a person with creative aspirations myself who has also experienced all of those things.
The music was really well arranged, but unfortunately not particularly memorable and the movie didn’t entirely succeed in it’s apparent mission to get me to develop a strong appreciation for jazz. Other than that though, it’s a pretty impressive statement. If this brings musicals back as a genre and they are all as ambitious and creative as this I would be okay with it.
Yeah, fuck ’em. I can only give a damn when teetotalers die.
Kind of reductionist, right?
Freud and Jung both did cocaine their entire lives. They lived to 83 and 85. Churchill drank almost constantly and lived until 90. There is nothing wrong with using substances in moderation. And moderation can be all day, everyday. In moderation. It’s the “let’s get fucked up” binging and mixing that kills, both immediately and long term.
Carrie Fisher’s passing has only made the appearance of CGI Leia in the movie’s penultimate shot feel twice as grotesque. Just…motherFUCKer.
By the trailer it very much resembles Prometheus, but with more of the classic xenos.
Now you’re just being contrarian. I never met anyone who wasn’t a “LIIIITSTHABERSTH” fanboy who liked those movies or tried to defend them. I’m sure kids who watch them at age 4 might have liked them until they were 12 but no adults rationally defended the PT. As much as Disney Wars sucks the PT will always be a half-assed first-draft attempt at SW by an old rich guy who turned to his children instead of his peers for inspiration and insight.
This is the opinion of the scientific community, not the insurance industry. When you achieve notoriety in the field of medical science and devote your career to studying substance abuse, then perhaps your opinion will carry some weight. Until then, you’re just as clueless as the next person.
Why you riding on my comments, guy? The first thing that needs to be said about Prince, George Michael or Carrie is that they died from substance abuse. Everyone already knows their work and nothing with come from this public display of lamentation. What can be helpful is to call out why they died so young and call it out immediately upon their death. Otherwise, by the time the after-school special or the tell-all book comes out no one will be listen. No, better to call it out now while it’s trending. Carrie Fisher was a junkie that died from abusing drugs and alcohol for many many years.
You didn’t read what I posted. You’re just being contrary.
The medical community will classify basically anything as a “disease” SO they can get paid from it.
Look at what you just said “devote your career”. Nice career you made up for yourself.
Kind of like global warming… err climate change… err climate catastrophe…
You think doctors and scientists ever said “whoa, I’m going to turn down that extra power.” Has anyone ever?
Of course not. Next, criminality will be a disease as well.
Substance abuse is no more a disease than pedophilia.
Oh, and when you have achieved notoriety in the field of film and entertainment and devote your career to making movies then perhaps your opinion on Star Wars will carry some weight. Until then, you’re just as clueless as the next person.
You’re one of those people who nostalgically elevates the original trilogy to a level of untouchable brilliance that no film can possibly ever live up to, therefore setting yourself up for inevitable disappointment at any subsequent attempt to revisit that universe. The reality is that Star Wars is, and always has been, fun popcorn blockbuster fare for families to enjoy. It has never been cinematic brilliance. The OT has any number of flaws that can be picked apart til the cows come home, but we overlook them all because we just enjoy them for what they are and don’t get hung up on the details-like the nonsense beginning of Return of the Jedi or the implausibility of teddy bears destroying a legion of Imperial troops. Unfortunately, people like you lack the ability to do this with the new films, so you’ll always be disappointed with them. The rest of us will simply enjoy the fun ride and not give a shit about the flawed details, while you willfully prevent yourself from enjoying them because you have to take them so damn seriously.
What nonsense in the beginning of Jedi? Rescuing Han?
Teddy Bears? You mean thousands of savage woodland creatures in their native environment alongside of company of rebel troops defeated a company of Stormtroopers will one or two heavy weapons?
THIS IS an argument by PT and Disney Wars apologists that was NEVER heard before fanboys had to make TPM seem like it was something that could be imagined to be palatable.
Are there some continuity issues with the OT? Yes, they story morphed as it went along. But it was ALL EXPLAINED in the movies.
In terms of inventiveness, character development, straight-forward story telling (no mystery box, no stupid fan service, no retarded easter eggs, etc), writing (both plot and dialogue) and any other qualitative metric you want to apply the OT is the most brilliant action/adventure group of movies ever filmed. With Empire and Star Wars being stand alone genius that will never be matched.
Not because it can’t be matched but because “good enough” will do. I don’t see the passion, the dedication, the hunger for greatness, to change the world, the do something that has never been done, the persistence of vision, the whatever in any film makers these days like you saw in Lucas and Kurtz and that whole crew back then. Nolan is the sole exception.
Now we have a corporation making audience-proof and demographic-tested sausage and paying a director to do the lifting and slap his name on it.
Remember all of the bullshit that was pumped out into the ionosphere by Disney and Jar Jar about the inventiveness, the returning to it’s roots, the practical sets and models, etc? THAT – like the movie – WAS FAN SERVICE.
They don’t give a fuck. That’s the difference. If that’s OK with you then stand in line, wave your plastic lightsaber and cheer for THINGS YOU KNOW.
I’ll pass. Wait for Nolan to do another trilogy or something.
None of what you said makes Fisher’s death any more or less doleful than that of a beloved, “moderate” substance abuser’s passing. Just an exercise in affective adaptation.
People don’t die from moderate. People don’t turn into mush-mouthed walking corpses from moderate. There is a limited window to use this example for education and awareness. It needs to be said in all conversation “Carrie Fisher – chronic drug addict and substance abuser “, otherwise her death is in vain. We all know her work, we don’t need reminders of it. We need to be frequently reminded why she – and Phillip and Prince and George and all the others – died young.
It won’t be her penultimate scene (shot I don’t know). All her scenes in Star Wars VIII is already finished.
Great video. Glad you can respect those of us who enjoyed the movie. I personally loved it and enjoyed all the “icing”. I agree with you though, Rogue One doesn’t check any of the boxes. It is candy for Star Wars fans….and since I am one, I loved it.
I also agree about the “context” issues. But again, being a fan, I really didn’t need another sit down to explain the Force. Though that scene probably should have been included to give the proper context. Also can’t argue with the confusing motivations. I suspect a lot of this is due to how the film was cut and re-shot, but it is what it is.
I think overall the movie enhances A New Hope and acts as an extended opening sequence for that movie. Despite all the issues, I still enjoyed Rogue One a lot.
reviews sites should be reviewed, and have credibility scores.
if they are blue and flickering, it could be a bonafide force apparition. i need a medichlorian count
I guess as a person who likes attention to detail and yes even nitpicking I found the sentiment in your comment threatening and my defense was ridicule. To me, things need to make sense, or you need to be able to easily infer answers that make sense.
Also don’t bang on semi-autism, it has it’s perks. I prefer over-passionate obsessive people to dispassionate apathetic cynics any day.
That is literally the premise of this video. It’s half the premise of this website, that there is some objective criticism to be made of the non-subjective parts of film and when a movie is sufficiently stupid we are going to list why.
The nonsense plan of Luke putting his friends’ lives in danger sending them in waves to Jabba’s palace rather than simply confronting himself from the beginning. Did Luke plan on everyone getting captured? Did he plan on being being fed to the Rancor with his lightsaber inside R2-D2? Did he plan on escaping both the Rancor and the Sarlacc? What if somebody found the saber inside R2? What if R2 was scrapped? What if Lando, Leia or Chewbacca were killed before he got there? There is no logic in that plan at all, and no, none of it is explained. See how I can pick apart these movies just the same as cynical assholes pick apart the new ones? The OT is still fantastic and timeless, but if you scrutinize the hell out of them, you can find flaws that stand out, just like overscrutizing TFA and R1 will prevent you from getting any enjoyment out of them. The prequels had a huge amount of new stuff in them, but they were critically flawed films that failed on the basic elements of filmmaking. The Disney films actually are competently made films that fall short of innovation, but are undeniably made with care and feel like genuine Star Wars films. Can you give me any real proof that the people who worked on these two films didn’t care about what they were doing? What the hell, look at some of the behind the scenes docs. Tremendous care went into the fabrication of creatures, sets, costuming, sound VFX and so on. There is absolutely no indication that anything was half-assed about either production.
I come here to see well informed attentive movie viewers discuss a movie, when they aren’t that then that’s not the same as when they are. Think of it this way, if Ebert started reviewing movies drunk and half asleep, I wouldn’t still defend his reviews because “It’s Ebert! I came here for Ebert’s opinion”. You don’t get to fundamentally miss the point and tone of a movie and then get a pass over it.
Somebody suggested they might have seen the film with a bunch of annoying fanboys and if that’s the case then I understand their review, but I still do think it’s off the mark.
Here is where I think the reshoots were:
The mid-sceene with vader, which honestly I feel like could be totally ditched and the only thing that felt out of place in the movie.
How/where the ending fight happened (we want it on a high tower and not a beach front). The beach front was probably more gritty with people getting bloodied and stuff and they thought “This isn’t star warsy”
Beyond that maybe they did some stuff with the look of some characters, but that feels like where the most likely spots for reshoots were. The middle-Vader doesn’t ruin the movie, you can kinda ignore it. And where the final fight takes place also isn’t a huge difference. I probably would’ve enjoyed the original cut more, but I still feel like the arc and premise and feel of the story is totally there and yes original story that wanted to be told.
We have not seen an elaborate war/theft in the SW universe before.
This is possible. They usually try to get their reviews out early and as a result that means maybe they saw it opening night, and if so there might have been fanboys gallore there. It’s a shame, because that would color anybody’s experience of the film, but the film itself on it’s own merits is great. I avoided all marketing for it and just enjoyed it as a movie, and as a movie it’s great.
Oh, you’re so right. All medical science exists for is so that people can get paid. Not helping treat people, not furthering the field of medical science to accomplish great things for humanity. I guess if you ever have a medical problem you treat it yourself rather than relying on those money-grubbing doctors who only work to enrich themselves rather than help people get better? Don’t need no fancy science folk with their so called “expertise” telling me what’s wrong.
Go back and watch it again. It’s pretty easy to figure out. Lando was infiltrated for support. Leia was the primary means of escape. Luke was the safety valve in case things fell apart.
You’re grasping at straws now. I’m not scrutinizing the plot points of ANY of Disney Wars.
I don’t even have to go that far because they fail on the Originality, Story and/or Character and just general sensibility.
TFA has characters and dialogue that leans as heavily on current sit-com tropes and gimmicks (“i need a pilot”, “do i go first”, “um, yeah I’m with the resistance”, “OMG did you see what i did? Did you see me?”) that can be seen in everything from that nerd comedy on CBS to Bridesmaids to Pirate of the Carabeian. It’s cheap, it’s rote, it’s recycling from a tired, old writer’s back of tricks. A writer that is either stupid, bored or both.
The same can be said about Reshoot One. Tired action tropes, driven neither by character or chance but by the need for drama. Drama facade.
Which is the problem with both the movies… the characters are so hollow and are just mannequins to hang the plot points on.
Never mind scrutinizing the actual plot. It’s starting from such a bad place – plot first – that it hardly matters.
Your comments are all responses to my comments. Yes, we know all about Carrie Fisher’s abuse of drugs. But you see, when a person dies, the traditional and respectful thing to do is to highlight the positive aspects of a person’s life and, in the case of these entertainers, reflect on how they entertained us over the years. The asshole thing to do is to self-righteously bring up a person’s negative life choices, and insinuate that the person died because of them and callously blame them for their own deaths. But I guess some people lack a basic understanding of respect and decency and feel the need to tear down others, even in death.
Yeah fuck that traditional shit. It’s for normopaths.
Fuck respect and fuck decency for celebrities that celebrate and flaunt their substance abuse and fuck the people tryiing to silence those talking about it.
And fuck you for trying to be an amateur psychologist.
She killed herself. Just like Winehouse, George Michael, Prince, Phillip Eatmore Cakeman, etc, etc, etc
When was the last time you hear anyone talk about them in terms of self-destructive junkies? Never.
It’s just pathetic virtue-signalling and self-branding about “OMG, i soooo inspirational” and other horse shit that glosses over the real issue.
The truth is Princess Leia, shitty pop songs, books glamorizing fame and addiction, etc never help one person stay alive. It’s just entertainment.
Telling the truth about how and why they died young and how much they suffered while alive will save lives.
LOL. A troll. How….quaint.
Faith? Who said anything about faith? Perhaps that word does not mean what you think it does.
Wow, great half-baked attempt to explain the beginning of Jedi.
The original Star Wars itself drew from any number of inspirations, from lifting the opening scroll directly from Flash Gordon, to re-editing old WWII movies to compose the dogfight scenes, to having John Williams use Holst’s Mars movement and essentially re-write Korngold’s King’s Row theme. It drew from tropes of old Westerns, Kurosawa films, space serials, and so forth. Darth Vader is a samurai, The Empire are the Nazis, Yoda is the prototypical wise old sage. Joesph Campbell wrote all about how fantasy storytelling is essentially the same through the ages, only the aesthetics change. So the idea that Star Wars was 100% original is bogus.
And if you want to nitpick about dialogue, good God, Star Wars has never been strong in the dialogue department, nor the acting department, so once again, you ignore the flaws of the originals and pretend like they are untouchable, while over scrutinizing the new ones because you can’t accept anything that doesn’t make you feel like the originals did, before you decided to become hyper-cynical.
Half baked? It took less than 5 seconds to figure out the “plan”.
You’re are talking about theme and story. And making canned arguments that you read on someone’s blog.
Atchetypes are different than cliches and tropes.
And whatever tropes they took other sources were turned on their head to such a degree than they delighted audiences.
EXAMPLE: Cantina. It’s a western saloon. But it’s filled with aliens from every corner of the galaxy. Alien Cantina. It’s new, it’s fresh.
HOW EXACTLY WAS THAT STAR WARS TAKE(Alien Cantina) turned on it’s head in TFA?
IT FUCKING WASN’T.
Keep running down the OT to make Disney Wars more palatable. The OT has more originality in design and background than anything we have seen since. ANYTHING.
Star Wars OT has some of the best dialogue of any movie ever. It’s character through dialogue in EVERY LINE. It’s textbook master class on writing action or adventure.
There are no flaws. And there certainly aren’t shitty plot and character tropes and cliches from action and comedy in the 1970s that show up in the OT.
Example… a typical comedy trope from the 60 and 70s was:
Gilligan: I’m not getting in a tree. I’m scared of heights.
CUT TO Gilligan in a tree. Laughter.
It’s cheap dogshit writing that wreaks of “i’m just here to do a job and these are the tools of the trade”.
That is TFA and Reshoot One in a nutshell. It has a moldering cliched sensibility that isn’t really descended from SW at all but from the plot and character tropes and cliches of modern action and comedy.
Come on, man! You can’t see all that cutsey Buffy dialogue in TFA is straight off sitcom TV. I’ve seen those exchanges a half dozen times and I don’t even watch TV!!!!
If you can’t see that or understand that then PLEASE DON’T respond.
TFA is just a bland film. Not too much to say. They aimed for the middle trying to please the fan children.
I really liked it. Not a perfect movie, but a smart, enjoyable one that actually sticks to its guns and follows through on its thematic ideas. Adds some welcome depth to the SW universe’s simplistic morality and politics, and introduces some interesting ideas – the force as religion, the cutthroat, partisan nature of the Rebels, and the bureaucratic power games going on within the Empire. Our heroes aren’t really good guys. They aren’t (for the most part) funny, or quippy, or full of bravado. That worked for me. It lent a kind of low-key nobility to their sacrifice that’s at odds with the sort of Big Hero Moments SW usually goes for, and fit the hopeful-yet-unsentimental tone of the film. I can understand if it didn’t connect for other people.
Rogue One’s definitely a film that is interested in the texture of the setting and the machinations of warfare and insurrection rather than a character piece, but I was involved enough in the team’s fate that the third act worked like gangbusters for me. That end scene on the beach with Jyn and Cassian in the face of the oncoming tidal wave was a genuinely affecting moment, I thought, emotional without being melodramatic.
There were definitely issues; Saw Gerrera amounted to little more than an awkward plot device, and the first act tied itself in knots trying to get all the pieces into the right place. I could have done with a few less nudge-wink cameos, and it was a BAD idea to end on the dodgy CGI Leia face. Plenty of lessons for Disney to learn from this film, but as a first effort at expanding the setting beyond the narrow focus of the core films, I thought this was successful.
I think there are definite rules in the OT and the PT for what the force does.
“You mean it controls your actions?”
“Partially, but it also obeys your commands.”
It’s pretty simple what is lets you do. Just from the movies:
Physical: Telekinesis, force lighting, fast movement and reflexes. If you want to throw in slow fall for that shitty AOTC scene then that too.
Mental: Mind control, hyper-intuition – not knowledge – in certain situations (controlling your actions) like piloting, shooting and fighting, a connection to “life” across interstellar distances, cloaking force abilities, nebulous reading of the future and “auras”
What is never did in the OT or the PT was give you technical abilities in either piloting or repairing the Falcon which Mary Sue had in TFA.
Now, if she had been in, or worked on, the Falcon before and had hidden memories they need to explain that IN THAT MOVIE at some point. Not mystery box us.
It really just seemed like Grrrrl Power to me and will never be explained.
Then she’s also doing mind control – having never seen anyone do it before and NOT EVEN KNOWING IT POSSIBLE.
The takedown of MC Ren is also a little suspect to say the least. Luke took out a wild animal with his laser sword before he had training but got stomped by a slow cyborg after his Yoda training.
We assume that the yoda training – though none is seen with the laser sword – honed Luke’s “force focus” quite a bit, enough to at least challenge Vader.
Mary Sue had zero training – unless they mystery boxed us again and should have put up about as much of a fight against a Sith trainee/squire/knight (?) as Tattoine Luke would have against Vader. But I’m willing to let that pass because it’s a grey area in terms of the power levels involved. Vader was 1/2 of the greatest Jedi in the last 1000 years in a Halloween costume. Ren was a emo punk who was injuried.
So TFA violates at least 2 rules from the OT & PT.
What’s to understand? They didn’t like it. Pretty simple concept.
“only their brains did”. nice.
Great point. They continue to break the OT & PT.
Because even fantasy need rules or you get shit like Harry Potter.
The Force has always had rules. Everything has rules. They are set up in SW, enforced in the OT and carried over to the PT.
Disney Wars doesn’t care.
It seems like your main issue is that the main character is a girl. Your constant “Mary Sue’ing” shows your true feelings.
First, you can’t assume the force is limited to what was in the original movies and the prequels. You also left out “immaculate conception”, and guess what other “story” involves that.
Second, who trained Anakin on piloting and building robots and the speeder? The only difference between him and Rey is that he was a male. Is that the real reason you have a problem with Rey?
Finally, The Force is the biggest plot device in the history of movie making. I could make the same arguments about any of the other force users in the other movies you make about Rey, but they don’t matter because The Force. How does a nine year old kid born to a mother who did not have sex build a robot from scratch, build a speeder and suddenly become the best racer on the planet? The Force. How does a little 900 year old green dude move a plane? The Force. How does a teenager who never flew an X-Wing survive a crucial battle and hit a target that veteran pilots with advanced targeting computers can’t hit? The Force.
Power levels and skills are irrelevant. The Force has a will of its own. This has been mentioned in the movies. That’s the only rule that matters.
“…but Rogue One has more in common with The Guns of Navarone than with Star Wars.”
This is literally what I was thinking when I saw the movie.
Sorry, you just aren’t getting some basic premised.
those were the rules established in the OT and PT. They were pretty similar between both and certainly were never altered to provide additional abilities that can’t be explained other ways.
Anakin was more a boy genius with all the tinkering and we were told he was podracing before the Jedi got there.
WHAT HE NEVER DID WAS JUMP UP AND FIX A RANDOM SHIP OR DROID OR JUMP IN A POD RACER AND WIN THE RACE WITH NO PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE OR EXPLANATION.
You can try to be a newmale all you want and change the argument to something you are more used to at college – like yelling sexism and racism or some shit will shut someone down but it doesn’t change the fact that Mary Sue jumps in a ship that she HAS NEVER BEEN IN, FLIES IT BETTER THAN WE HAVE EVER SEEN (including an intentional retreating pulse stall to line up a shot for FN) and then KNOWS MORE ABOUT FIXING IT THAT SOLO.
After which she spontaneously tries to do a Jedi Mind trick as an untrained novice. Without that ever being set up in the movie at all. She went from thinking Jedis were a myth and the Force wasn’t even real to doing something pretty much only trained Jedis do.
How do I know only trained Jedis do it! Precedent! Which is another word for history.
Two huge problems. If that is the kind of thing you want the Force to be doing in your SW then good! Share them with your Residence Hall while you power munch chettos and chug mountain dew! I’m excited for you.
I can’t stomach this approach.
I never said anything about Leia being a Mary Sue in any of the movies because she never did anything crazy with no explanation.
Hell, we all have to assume that Mary Sue is some great force person because Mystery Glasses doesn’t even give us that much info.
Judged an entire movie by watching only half of the trailer, you are the reason i try to stay away from these miserable forums.
Schindler’s List was a depressing mess. As far as its merit… Even Oscar Schindler’s wife said “It was full of Lies” after watching it.
Admit it, as a 60-year-old-who-looked-like-an-80-year-old former(?) coke-head, another day of her living was doing ABSOLUTELY NOTHING for another day in your life. Please stop with the “We’ll Miss You” Bull-Crap, she was already dead as far as 99.9999% of the population is concerned. Her cameo did nothing to help the force awakens and you know it.
For which plague, Earthquake, Tsunami, Genocide??? All we had was a bunch of drub-abusing celebrities get what’s coming to them, and that makes it a terrible year???
I had a bit of a premonition on the toilet this morning. From this day forth, every actor in a major film franchise will be required to shoot a death scene, and/or prematurely sign over their image rights for use with creepy CGI puppets.
Did anyone else start chuckling during the big speech scene in the rebel base? The bit where a guy in the background randomly yells “What is she proposing!?” Felt like something right out of Monty Python.
There was a whole lot of “earnest acting” in this movie that turned me off. You could see the actors desperately trying to “feel” the words as they were written instead of doing what real humans do, which is cover their feelings with misdirection. You know – like humour.
I enjoyed a lot of the second half because it suddenly felt like a Star Wars movie again. Also, the characters I was most rooting for were Gold Leader and Red Leader. It made me so happy to see them rocking the late 70’s moustaches. I didn’t care who else died. Also, that beach scene death was actually really contrived from a cinematic point of view.
I think they have to approve of their image being used since Crispin Glover’s Back to the Future 2 lawsuit over his face mold being used in it without his permission.
Yeah, that’s what I’m saying. The new contracts will include a probate clause that says, “Yes, you may turn me into a soulless CGI monstrosity after death.”
They’ll sign, too. For the right franchise and money.
I can’t really agree with the “context” issue. It’s a nitpick. The context is the last four decades of pop culture. No one needs to be told what the Force is at this point. And we certainly don’t need anyone to explain who Darth Vader is. He’s only one of the most recognized and iconic figures in the history of film.
Does this film work if you’ve never seen a STAR WARS movie? I have no idea, but that’s not the point. This isn’t meant to be anyone’s introduction to the STAR WARS universe. It’s essentially an extended prologue to A NEW HOPE, made hopefully to entertain an audience (and make a shitload of money).
Personally, I loved this film. Aside from the creepy CGI people (which upon a second viewing didn’t bother me at all) I have no real issues with it. It’s a handsomely made picture and I enjoyed it a lot more than THE FORCE AWAKENS, which was a fun film.
I just can’t imagine anyone getting offended at this movie.
I’d sign that for a dollar! Sigh.
It kind of gave me a flashback to Menace: “Will you defer your motion to allow a commission to explore the validity of your accusations?”
Wasn’t that kind of the idea?
Since Rogue One is yesterdays news.
I watched Green Room tonight, pretty solid movie. And I can finally watch that Half in the Bag episode they did before Captain Corporate America – Civil Hooah.
Green Room was a pretty fun movie. I watched it the other day and enjoyed it. Very tense. Stewart’s accent was really odd though.
Alien: Covenant? Is that where a xenomorph pops out of Isaac’s sternum before Abraham has a chance to sacrifice him?
Like the first Gulf War?
Raises the question, not begs the question.
And I actually agree with you: I have no idea why they liked TFA, except possibly as I stated in another post, they were just so starved for competence that anything without a 6-foot talking cartoon rabbit would do.
Oh dear. You’re one of the people who think substance addiction is a disease?
I had to go to imdb to find out the names of 90% of the characters in this movie. Half the character’s names begin with “Senator” or “Governor”.
So, let me get this straight: Leia was present at and presumably took part in the big space battle, escaped in front of the entire imperial fleet when things went south, and then tried to tell Vader that she was on a diplomatic mission when she got captured?
Worse than fan-fiction, I tell you.
Let me clarify…I think its a valid criticism to say the movie lacks context. If you didn’t know what the Force was you would be very confused why the one guy keeps chanting it. But I do agree with you, as I said, that, as a fan and I didn’t need all of it explained again.
I also agree that it is an extended prologue which I why I loved the movie and would go as far to say it might be the third best in the series.
I think there are many valid criticisms to be made, and thought this video was fair. Despite the flaws I love the movie…all that icing is what I wanted.
On the plus side, it gives Vader a lot more motivation to tell her off.
I don’t owe Lucas shit. If the prequels were as good as Rogue One I’d be fine with them, but they were all much much much much worse.
Wow. There are so many things wrong I don’t know where to start.
1) The only assumption you got right in your ad hominem attack on me is I am male. Everything else is off….way off.
2) You have 0 proof of established rules, because there are none. This is why The Force is the biggest plot device in movie history. If you have a reference for these said rules, feel free to let me know where. Hell, it took 30 years after we were first introduced to it before we even found out this “mystical force” turned out to be a bunch of microbes. Instead of issuing Order 66, the emperor could have just gave the Jedi penicillin.
3) Yes, Rey did a decent job flying the Falcon, the same way a little boy who has not even reached puberty took down a large droid ship without being shot down by a bunch of droid pilots. Besides, Lando did a way better job of flying it than she did. But again, the answer here is The Force. Oh, and she did make a “miscalculation” when she let the rathtars lose. I guess you forgot that, but notice how it actually saved the day. Funny how that worked out. The Force.
4) Jedis and Sith are not the only force users in the Star Wars universe.
5) Anakin was 9. What did he do, start training right after he was born to build and fly speeders? Who taught him? Doesn’t matter. The Force.
6) If you notice, Rey does not learn how to use the force powers until they are used against her (which i think is a clue as to who/what she really is). The force can link people (even dead ones) telepathically across space, so where does it say it can’t take all the experience from all those people and implant it into, say, a girl named Rey or a boy named Anakin? If it can impregnate a woman, then why the hell not?
7) The Jury is still out on who Rey is or where she came from. For all we know her parents could have been Jedi (or some other group of force sensitives) who were trying to hide her because they knew her potential. I think there is going to be more to Rey than a simplistic Mary Sue you keep bringing up.
8) As far as what I want from the force, well, it is what it is, and I accepted it as a “plot device” when I saw Star Wars in the theater when it first came out. The only thing I’m not cool with is the medichlorian thing. That explanation just irks me.
Perhaps Rey is the chosen one. Maybe she is Anakin reincarnated. Or, maybe the force needed her to get to Luke so it “Mary Sued” her to move the plot along faster. The thing about a Star Wars movie is all you need is The Force.
Perhaps. I think this movie was made for reasons. 1) Cash grab 2) Explain away that “why the hell did they build that obvious weakness in the deathstar”. Maybe “borrowing” from the Guns of Navarone story was a quick way to get the script done.
I was born in 71 and starwars as a kid was my life. as an adult i moved on so i am no nerd or precious about the subject
was the first of the newer movies i really liked. it felt like the star
wars for me as grown man. The rebels where not black and white. like
the execution to the head of the stormtrooper. It added to the originals
a sense of desperation against a mighty force and that every victory
costs them extremely dearly.
this for me added to the originals instead of taking away form them
its not perfect but despite knowing the general outcome of the end of
the movie i was genuinely excited and did care for the characters.
unlike the the force awakens which i found myself not caring even
i was quite surprised by RLM reaction
I am dyslexic so my grammar and writing might be a bit off
I can deal with two of those. The the butt-hurt progressives really make it difficult to keep on living.
I haven’t seen it yet.
The movie is basically the same as Gareth Edwards Godzilla, which is to say genuinely exciting action and striking imagery, but bland, flat characters.
It works well enough for me, I’ll take characters that are a little on the bland side versus characters that are actively annoying like in Michael Bay’s Transformers flicks, to be honest I kind of liked the fact that the characters weren’t jokey or quippy, even the comic relief droid’s humor was deadpan, it made it different than the other films, which I thought was the point? There just need to be more of an emotional connection, I agree.
Agreed. And I think it’s true that Mike gave TFA more of a pass at the time of its release than he normally would have, because 1) it was the first new Star Wars film in ten years and 2) it actually wasn’t too bad (if still highly derivative of the original trilogy). It was probably a breath of fresh air to be able to say “there’s a new Star Wars movie, and it’s actually /pretty good/!”.
TFA’s job was to say “hey, Star Wars is back!” and “forget all about the prequels; this is the good stuff!”. It had to hit all the magic nostalgic beats and engage the general public all over again. And it did those things very competently (some might say cynically), but it didn’t leave much of an impression after the initial excitement about Star Wars’ return had faded.
Rogue One had a more difficult task, which was to prove that other stories outside of the main saga could stand on their own and be compelling. I personally think they laid on the fanservice much too thick (so they could market the film using those images), not trusting the characters and story to stand on their own.
I think Rogue One could have been a very good movie if they had a more coherent backstory for the characters (especially Jyn/Galen, and Cassian), clearer (and more emotional) character arcs, and less blatant reliance on the iconic images and characters from the original trilogy.
Tell a good story and it doesn’t /matter/ if it’s Star Wars; it’s still a good story. Tell a rushed story without giving the plot and characters their due diligence, and you’re just sullying the Star Wars brand.
I don´t agree, that the whole galaxy felt like one solar system, but JJ fucked up something else in that respect, logic-wise. That´s really the one problem I have with TFA. I know it might seem nitpicky, but to me, that should be common sense. Here it comes, in a nutshell:
FIRST ORDER DON`T NEED TO DESTROY THE REPUBLIC, SINCE EVERYONE HAS ALREADY FROZEN!
What I mean is this: Let´s not argue about the logic of the weapon in that movie. Say, they can obtain the sun´s energy within the planet starkiller base is on, that´s all fine by me. BUT, there is a least bit of common sense, that should have been regarded. If the suns dies or gets drained, every life on the planets surrounding the sun will die in seconds. So what should have really happened was, that the new order shot sun energy at already completely frozen planets (which would make for a good comedic scene i guess.. “the weapon is charged! Fire when ready! Let´s show them!” – Cut to a planets surface; everything has frozen over and died already, wind howling)
I mean of course Star Wars mythology is utter bs, logic-wise, but in the original Trilogy at least they had some standards in regard to physics: In New Hope, they get pulled in by a tractor beam, so the concept of gravitationnal pulse ergo gravitation is familiar. In Empire they put on breathing masks when leaving the ship, because the air might be toxic…
I liked the director’s previous movie Blue Ruin as well, but honestly I don’t know if I could watch them again. They are pretty well made films and the dialogue is nicely written, but something about their realism is off-putting to me.
I think I had a similar reaction to the remake of Maniac.
The Force Awaken’s job was to make Disney a shitload of money and sell toys. In those regards it is a success. Will anyone care in a year or two? PROBABLY NOT.
Yep. True dat.
#1) I just gave you proof from the OT & PT
#421) If you like The Force being able to give people technical abilities like knowing how to pilot or repair a ship a person has never been in that’s fine by me. Disney Wars is for you. You like it this way – awthum!
#1488) Luke saw OB1 mind trick the stormtrooper. Why didn’t her just start using the ability in the Death Star? He knew WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY more about The Force that Mary Sue did at the point she use the mink trick.
Look how much you had to write to explain the Mary Sue. Straws grasped. End of discussion.
Oh look, Captain America Civil War is on netflix. Time to see that one scene where Tony Stark hits on Aunt May. SEEN IT.
Sars Warts is for kidz!
It’s just a two hour advertisement for toys and assorted paraphernalia.
Why are grown men arguing about the quality of this “movie”?
Are their lives that empty?
The entire medical community says it is, so yes.
…Blah, d’blah, d’blah…Marcel Proust…la d’blah, d’blah…Bernard Pivot…If heaven exists, what would you like to hear God say when you arrive at the pearly gates?
You’re welcome for the halo.
Don’t mention it.
I’m a cop.
Every single day when doing speed patrol, I stop a speeder that I saw speeding well over the posted limit, had it confirmed on my RADAR or LIDAR. I follow them with lights flashing until they pull over, walk up to the car and inform the driver why they are being stopped.
And at least once a day I get some motorist who will look me in the eye and say something along the lines of:
“I wasn’t speeding.”
“It wasn’t my car you had locked on your radar.”
“I think you’ve made a mistake.”
Which makes me just about as angry as Darth Vader gets when he confronts Leia on the Tantive IV.
Yes, Jabba the Plinkett is correct: without the context of being an immediate prequel to the original Star Wars, Rogue One is a serviceable sci-fi film with okay characters.
But…it IS an immediate prequel to the original Star Wars and everyone whop watches it is watching it in THAT context. So while the characters aren’t THAT interesting (and next to Luke, Han and Leia, how can they be?), they are part of the Rebel Alliance and therefore we DO care about them. In context, Rogue One is a good movie.
Two Star Wars Nerd questions:
1. Why were Red Leader and Gold leader there in the final battle? Doesn’t everyone not on Leia’s Blockade Runner die in the battle?
2. Where was Admiral Motti? Didn’t he construct the Death Star? Or did he just take credit after that other dude bought in on Sans Scarif?
Man I slept through that Godzilla movie.
Haha. I prayed Leia wouldn’t turn around as well. The scene would have been kind of cool if we just saw her from behind, then a close up of her hands receiving the plans. Cut to Tantive IV jumping into hyperspace. Wipe…Credits…Get out of my way, I have to peeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!
1) Oh, the “guide” and “command” thing.
Force: Hey, little girl, I’m going to “guide” some events around you so you can get involved in this mess.
Rey: Sure. I ain’t doing much else other than taking apart starships for parts. Gee, I wonder if I learned anything about them while doing that.
Force: You will need to fly the Falcon, though.
Rey: That piece of junk? I’ve never flown it before. I “command” you to show me how.
Force: Sure. I need to move this plot along.
#421) I know someone who can help you with that speech impediment.
#1488) You do realize that watching some dude use the force is different that having the force used against you, right? And a couple hours of talking with an old dude does not count as “waaaaaaaaaaay more”. Rey never exhibited force characteristics until they were used against her.
I enjoyed the long explanation. It made me think of some things that could explain who Rey is. Imagine what Anakin, who already had “Jedi like reflexes” at the young age of 9 even though he had no Jedi training, would have been like if he had been allowed to continued to get older and reached Rey’s age. Maybe the problem wasn’t that he was too old for training, but that he was too young. After all, if the Jedi were so damned smart they would not have gotten their asses kicked in the prequels.
Anyway, here’s the short version: Because The Force.
Merely belonging to the Rebel Alliance isn’t enough to create en emotional connection: It’s a film, not a sports franchise.
The better phrasing would be, “The filmmakers thought we were supposed to care about them just because they are in the alliance. But we don’t, because brains work differently than that.”
If anything can happen “Because The Force” they would have done it in the OT and PT.
Except they didn’t. Because that makes for shitty movies (or shittier movies) with zero drama.
You keep confusing implanting technical knowledge with a guiding hand – using previously knowledge (in lukes case in an x-wing trainer and in Anakin’s case – which is almsot as retarded as TFA – in a podracer) – and fast reflexes.
And what about her ability to fix a ship she had never been in before? She also knew the inner working?
I’m sure that is THE FORCE too! It’s like The Matrix!
She knows kung-fu!
So your argument is idiotic. And you know it is.
If you enjoy The Force being a DEM in Disney Wars then COOOOOOOOOOOOOL BRO!
Everything is awesome when you are part of the Disney Team!
Well my biggest issue with the film is that suddenly, being able to blow up the Death Star with a proton torpedo appears to be no big deal. Now, the thing was designed to blow up. I guess the Force isn’t that big of a deal after all.
That’s the irony, really. When I heard they were doing this story I said “Who the hell cares?”, but later on I wondered if maybe they’d use the simplicity and the predictability of the story just as a framework to add more detail to the Star Wars universe. Some more original world-building could have made this movie worth it. But nope.
Yeah, the part in Godzilla where they dove through the clouds by flarelight actually was a very striking image that stuck with me – it’s just unfortunate that I remember thinking during it “It’s a shame I don’t care about any of these characters at all.”
The Force hasn’t been that big a deal since Liam Neeson told us it was a bacterial infection. Still, basic screenwriting tells us that Blind Chinaman should’ve pulled the Big Important Switch using space magic, after being shot near-to-death. It was incredible how many obvious emotional opportunities were botched, even with these wispy-thin characters.
Upvoted just because toilet premonition
But why would anyone get mad about that?
Empire Strikes Back had some fairly iconic scenes involving Luke’s force training, so I don’t think your argument really applies there. That’s about as much explanation of the Force as we’ve ever gotten, sans “midichlorians”.
So Disney basically made a Marvel-type StarWars movie last year and then a gritty DC StarWars film.
Say what you will about them, but they know how to grab those ass-wallets.
And in the meantime people complain what tastes better, Coke or Pepsi.
Maybe everyone is looking at this film wrong. Maybe it’s actually a brilliant neo-noir! It has everything: the femme fatale, the abundant use of shadows, the fatalistic ending… I take it all back! This is a masterpiece! Disney, I present you with the “totally understands movies” award. Congratulations my friend, you’ve earned it.
I think the only real contextual issues would arise from not being familiar with the prequels, like my wife who had no idea who Jimmy Smits was supposed to be. I imagine it could be confusing why his introduction is given any weight if you’ve never seen Episodes II and III.
But as I said, I don’t think this was intended to be an introduction to the STAR WARS universe. People familiar with it get it, so there’s no point adding any more exposition than is necessary. Someone who has never seen a STAR WARS movie and knows absolutely nothing about the mythology would probably be pretty lost. But even they would know from the first scene that the Empire = bad and the Rebels = good.
I think one of the film’s strengths is that there ISN’T much expository dialogue. Certainly nothing on the level of the Han/Leia scene in THE FORCE AWAKENS where they spend a few minutes blathering about their kid turning to the dark side.
Funny you should mention the Matrix, because that’s what I was thinking. The Force implanted memories of events she had no part in in the form of visions, so why not how to fly a ship? Especially a ship belonging to her boss. Her knowing the inner workings of her boss’ ship can be easily explained without use of the force, but I’m sure the force helped.
As far as her fighting, who did she beat up before fighting Kylo? A couple of unknown thugs? Now if she force pushed them away or did some Jet Lee moves (dude, that was an ugly, straight up bar room brawl type of fight, no Kung Fu needed), then you would have an argument. She could have learned to fight because she had to in order to survive. School of hardkocks. The force likely helped there, too.
And yes, Because The Force was used in OT and PT. Anakin’s mom became pregnant because The Force (which is how this whole thing got started). Luke going from bullseying wamp rats to kicking ass in his first ever space battle and saving the galaxy is also Because The Force.
Bottom line is I accepted the suspension of belief regarding the force back in 77, so that’s why I don’t have a problem with Rey or Anakin being able to do the stuff they do.
The dude has a real eye for that stuff, Rogue One is filled with taking familiar Star Wars imagery, the Stormtroopers, the Death Star and so on and showing them in new contexts that you’ve never seen before, the movie really is a feast for the eyes, the dude just needs to hire some better writers who know how to write characters that aren’t flat.
I’ve only seen Green Room once (so far), but Blue Ruin was rewarding for me the second time around. Saulnier is someone I’m keeping an eye out for.
Rogue One made me realize how disappointing TFW actually was.
The second most favorite word behind “turn” in the Entertainment Weekly reviewer’s lexicon.
Again… you are making excuses for a very stupid movie.
Here is an idea… why not just make her a slave or very low wage REPAIRER of ships for that fat guy? And she can be working on the FALCON while it is covered in the tarp so we don’t know it’s the Falcon.
The fat guy can have a really bad name for it which can pay off later as a “He called it what? This is the Millennium Falcon and this is my ship” line from Solo.
She’s been repairing ships her whole life and never flown one. She dreams about flying. She pretends at the controls. She’s an expert at pretend flying.
And then she actually gets to fly and it awesome at it.
Not only does that explain things – it explains it through CHARACTER by creating desires and yearning that give a character dimension. Something TFA and Reshoot One sorely lack.
See… i thought of that in like 2 seconds. And it’s so much better than what they offered us.
How come the screenwriters couldn’t do that? Because they do not give a fuck about it making any sense or building ANY character. Splosions. Running. Laser swords. X-Wings.
Bottom line, I find Disney Wars pretty offensive in their approach to the material. 1990s Lucas didn’t understand SW and neither does the mouse.
They both think the audience is stupid. We aren’t. A lot of people noticed what I am saying. Millions.
And I don’t have that much of a problem with the fighting thing. I explained that already.
Only the Blue team people who got trapped under the shield died. You see most of the rebel ships head into hyperspace right before Vader’s star destroyer shows up.
She didn’t know Vader was there seeing her ship firsthand. Makes sense why Vader’s so mad about her denying it though!
It was the future you saw…….
I was born in 71 and I agree with you 100%. This was the Star Wars movie I wanted since Jedi.
Didn’t the three prequels define the Force? In Rogue, the Force wasn’t a main theme, like in New Hope. There was no Jedi except Vader. It’s all explained in more detailed in the next movie (New Hope) where The Force is a main theme and thus fully explained.
I’m surprised that RLM wanted it explained again. And, that popular Star Wars icons, like the At-At’s were shown – of course they were shown because Rogue came before New Hope, etc. It’s in the same universe and directly tied to the next movie.
You realize that’s the best analogy I’ve ever heard, right?
thats in part what I meant; is it the star of the system, which planets are blown up or some random star somewhere?
“If the suns dies or gets drained, every life on the planets surrounding the sun will die in seconds.”
if we are truly in nitpicking here; nope, it wont. would take at least days, maybe weeks, before everything is freezing to death. nightside of earth doesnt freeze neither, just because the sun isnt visible, right? besides, light from a star similar to our sun to the habitable zone would take some 8 minutes. but thats just nitpicking as mentioned.
Star Wars: The Forced Asleep – A Bedtime Story
yeah well ok Sir, but that fits in quite well with the idea of the earth being flat dont it huhh?
Just kiddin, I see you might have a valid point there. Still, draining the sun will result in everybody fukcing freezing to death, sooner or later. However, if you can convert the sun´s energy into something why don´t you use it to ah fuck it I don´t wanna think about that any more.
Guten Rutsch 😉
that was just a great show (storywise and writing were sometimes really remarkable genius-like), despite the flaws, which were minor.
I miss the live stream marathons.
thanx man; komm gut rüber to you (hope, ah the new hope of a 2017, which doesnt immediately shits us in the faces)
ps; the handwaving from the writers might be exactly that:
“…freezing to death, sooner or later.” or later. that means time to evacuate the people from the affected planets, hence: we need bigger-than-fuck-superlaser, sucking-sun-dry isnt safe enough to kill EVERYBODY.
this town has changed
Uh huh. And after having all that evidence and giving the driver a ticket, does your partner turn to you and say “Giving that ticket was dangerous.”
Everything falls apart when you realize that imperial officers were nervous about attacking that ship. In the context of Rogue One, they had no reason to be. Leia’s ship was part of an attack on an imperial base. They are traitors and murderers. Vader didn’t need to send out a distress signal and tell the senate they were all dead when they got there.
Would you like some watermelon?
Then who snorted all that cocaine with Roy Cohn in Studio 54 during the late 70s?
James Woods. Who else?
Fuck you it’s January.
Our brains worked differently because they just spent the whole film showing what a bunch of assholes and cowards the rebels were. Keep your politics in your pocket, Lucas! Wait….that ain’t George Lucas…..
Fuck you, it’s year.
Happy Fuck You, It’s January!
Alright. Screw this Star Wars crap. Nobody cares about Star Wars anymore. Give us what we want.
Where the hell are the Passengers and Assassin’s Creed reviews?
Yes, if you ignore context this movie makes no sense. Good thing there is context, and we don’t have to ignore it unless we just want to complain about the latest star wars movie.
I imagine his partner might if the driver is a US Senator.
Fuck you it ‘s January to you too sa!
this month its Resident evil: the final chapter.
In Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade there were multiple ‘bad guys’, Walter Donovan was a bad guy.
Colonel Vogel was a bad guy.
Elsa was an antagonist.
Adolf Hitler even made an appearance.
But I doubt it detracted from the movie plot.
AND we didn’t need a bunch of exposition about WHO the Nazis are…and what kind of world situation was going on at the time.
Wow, that was the most pretentious and insufferable essay ever, congrats!
Doubtful. Not when you have evidence. Quite frankly, you guys are embarrassing yourselves pretending that this movie dovetails neatly into ANH.
I’m not embarrassed about anything. I’m not saying it dovetails nicely. I’m just providing an example of how the result might make sense. Anyone who follows Star Wars has become painfully aware of how many stretches and contortions are required to make things ‘fit’.
Also in answer to the ‘not when you have evidence’ factor:
With media and spin being what it is today, evidence counts for a lot less than you might think.
At the end of the day, the only real evidence that remains that someone was speeding is the officer’s say-so. The radar unit doesn’t record the data. We don’t take photos of the results. It’s one word against another.
And I guess we can talk to guys like Darren Wilson about how much evidence counts when you put it against public perception and media.
” Holding her is dangerous. If word of this gets out, it could generate sympathy for the rebellion in the Senate.”
Doesn’t mean that there is any denial that she was there, just that it might generate sympathy.
They had Friday the 13th: The Final Chapter.
Seven movies ago.
An’ we all know Milla Jovovich is even harder to kill than Jason.
Regarding the humor in Rogue One, the robot saying “We have a 25% chance of failure” is just a rehash of C-3PO’s “The odds of surviving are 3720 to 1” in Empire.
I think you’re confusing the information about US life expectancy going down FOR EVERYONE – with it going down for white people in general.
BTW, even that’s barely a statistical conclusion.
Life expectancy of US-ians is down by 0.1 years. Which is about 5 weeks.
Plus… it’s a single year and the first time that happened since the early ’90s.
It’s not like it’s a trend or anything.
Anyway… It’s just a projection for kids born this year, based on a bunch of factors.
Like the fact that we have this climate change thing going which could make a life at a lot of places on the planet completely unlivable – and it might stress the US-ians so hard they might end up kicking the bucket a few weeks earlier.
Nah… For one, a bunch of people who died were of no interest to me.
George Michael is dead? Like I give a fuck. Prince died? Who cares. Pat Harrington died? Who?
For two… I have no intention of dying any time soon. Or ever.
For three… The reality has a tendency of being on the side of the law of large numbers. And we have so many large numbers in the game and they are only getting larger.
Like the number of people on the planet. Making that 6 degrees thing closer to a 5 due to a greater number of possible connections.
Or like the increases in the duration of lives on one side – e.g. Abe Vigoda only died last year cause he didn’t die all those years before.
Or like the effects of widespread use of drugs in the post WW2 era catching up with people – e.g. Carrie Fisher.
Or like the fact that even minor celebs are now much bigger due to the global audience – particularly when they die.
A bunch of statistical probabilities overlapping due to there being a lot more people on the planet.
Someone (not me) should do a proper multivariate regression analysis on it all… if nothing else it sure will get published.
But I’m guessing that the results will be inconclusive and that no single variable would turn out as the main culprit.
Not even when the whole thing is controlled for reptilian aliens from another dimension.
Particularly as we all know that they are only into satanic baby sacrifices.
Not everyone who watches it watches it in context. I know a few people that aren’t familiar with A New Hope that saw this movie and were mostly bored and confused.
I loved it, personally but RLM is right.
Born in 1970 and I agree with all of this. This is the star wars prequel we wanted. Best Star Wars movie in 35 years, as far as I’m concerned. I’m surprised, and rather pissed off, that RLM has been bashing it. I stopped watching their videos since the original R1 review, I’ll be back, but I’m a bit annoyed.
The only death I cared about, and also was the best acted, was the death of K-2SO.
I donated to Red Letter Media a long time ago, in 2010. I’m pretty sure I was one of very few people back then that monetarily supported you guys. And twice in 2013. I’m extremely disappointed that you didn’t think the characters were characters, or that it didn’t have emotion, or that it didn’t have a story. I cried several times, I was afraid for the characters, I felt they were very brave, and the story was nothing that you’d expect from a Star Wars movie or a Disney movie. The characters were a lot more subtle than the other movies. I thought it was very visceral, and this was the first SW movie with a really diverse cast. I’m so sad that this was your reaction to it.
A successful operation. But they’re probably all dead. All Blue Squadron…
You can’t kill a squadron.
I like how you prefaced your disdain of the video with the fact that you gave them money.
So much bitter butthurt in the comments. Keep it up, RLM.
The first half of the film wasn’t what we would now term “prequel terrible”, as some might claim, but it wasn’t altogether a stellar example of an altogether competent story ether. I admit it didn’t meet my expectations in terms of the actual story content, but I like to think I gave the film a fair chance, I enjoyed parts of it; I thought Jyn was potentially interesting, a sort of small time criminal shoved into an adventure well beyond anything she is used to.
We knew she had a troubled backstory, but overall; I don’t think that short look into her childhood really helped us get to know the adult version of that same character. I would have preferred a longer scene, depicting perhaps her capture by the empire or her time in the labor camp; any additional information regarding her father could have been filled into the movie quite easily without what was essentially a useless scene.
Regardless, I was looking forward to watching were they were going to take her character. I thought Cassian and his secret mission to kill the father was a good twist to the story. Unfortunately, from the point of their arrival to Yavin 4; very few things made sense to me. Jyn changed from a reluctant hero at best to a proverbial rebel with a cause without a very clear motivation; remember, thus far all we have seen is a woman who cares mostly for her own survival and the father she has hasn’t seen in years. When she is moved to tears at the sight of his holographic image; I thought that fit well with the vulnerability one would expect from a young woman faced with a reminder of a traumatic childhood event. Add to that, the Rebel Alliance killed her father, not the Empire. And though they can be blamed, they were not actually responsible for blowing up the base with the clear intention of killing him (they only actually tried to call of the bombing run because Cass said he had people on the ground over there).
I was expecting a more hesitant cooperation. Cassian, whom I thought would be explored as a character didn’t reveal anything about his background or his though process as a human being other than a vague mention of losing his family. As a result, I didn’t buy into his character at all. We know more about his robot than we do about him! The other characters where there mostly to shoot stuff, I sort of liked the pilot as a “common man’s hero”, but the others didn’t have much of a depth of character besides their death scenes (a bit too late).
The Rebel Alliance leadership made no sense at all; they where at the same time fearing the death star and advocating immediate surrender, saying it didn’t exist or even declaring that they didn’t join the rebellion to fight the empire (???). The sudden revolt among the ranks wasn’t explained properly ether, but I sort of went along with it and filled in the blanks; it wouldn’t be the first time the armed wing of an organization went rouge (pun unintended). The entire fight sequence on that planet at the end was spectacular but equally confusing. I didn’t really understand what happened and why. I was equally unconcerned with the death of the characters, besides a little bit of sympathy for Jyn’s passing.
Why did the empire blow up its own base? Where its entire records department was stored? If it was to prevent the rebels from getting plans, well, they could have dispatched a few fighters to bomb the satellite dish; a perfectly sound means of both denying the enemy the plans and saving trillions of credits in research and property.
I would have preferred a more character centered movie, consisting of a raid on the death star itself. I think a slow crawl though the death star consisting of a gradual liquidation of the cast of normal people against genuinely impossible odds rather than improbable action stuns would have been far more dramatic. The space battle could have taken place against pursuing Imperial forces, as I did actually enjoy that bit, though I have no idea what the hell a 4,000 year old Republic hammerhead cruiser was doing there.
I think RLM should have made more of an effort with their reviews and explained what the movie did wrong rather than declare it was terrible in a few sweeping judgements and a slightly aggressive comment video. Yes, I agree it wasn’t very good, and I thought it was a missed opportunity, but I had my reasons. Half In the Back mentioned a few of the thinks the film did wrong, but
but seriously, if they want to talk about what disney SHOULD HAVE done, that’s a different discussion from talking about the tone of THIS movie. There’s no way that a movie about the suicidal heroics of the rebellion should be lighthearted. But, meh, that’s just my opinion…
I thought they were talking about what disney should have done, or maybe what they shouldn’t bother doing in the first place. i agree this plot is not lighthearted, but why this plot or this movie in the first place?
No, I read somewhere what I said, but don’t have the source now. It could be wrong. But it might have been that the average life expectancy was going down, but if you break it up by race, you’ll see the phenomena I mentioned. Mortality rates are also increasing, though, and will for some time.
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