Mike and Jay see some little independent film nobody’s heard of called The Dark Knight Rises, directed by Christopher Nolan.
Filed in: General Updates • Half in the Bag
Bad-times – to think you’d rather be raped by the Fuckbot 5000 than go to see a midnight screening of Batman….
I would seriously watch a Half in the Bag weekly show. It would probably be the greatest thing to exist.
inb4 nerd rage
No doubt a movie with this amount of anticipation will feel to fall flat, especially if it has so many more issues that the others.
Still a blast, though.
Oh my god I’m here at ground zero. Under double digits on the comment section. I think I could officially call myself a “dedicated somewhat so-so hardcore fan”. Either that or unemployed.
Whichever way I love you guys.
The script was a muddled mess. The pacing was waaaay off. We don’t need 90 minutes of exposition for the third installment of a trilogy. Add another 60 minuts of torture/rising and that only left an hour for the Gotham under siege plot. I wanted that explored more. I loved Bane. Wanted more of his character fleshed out.
I haven’t even watched this yet, but I know this is the review of this movie I’ve been waiting for. You guys are the princes of my internet. Many, many thanks!
Woop der it is
I have to agree with Jay–Mike does the WORST Plinkett impression.
Dudes, so happy you enjoyed the movie
“Thats the worst Plinkett impression I’ve ever heard”
I want to watch the new Half In The Bag so much but I want to see TDKR first. ):
I was left a series of questions about plot inconsistencies that I’ll about rant now:
Why didn’t Miranda steal the bomb after she knew where it was?
Why go through Dagget if she already owned the device?
How did she know the device worked? Wayne stated it wasn’t working.
What if he wasn’t lying (it was a fusion reactor). All that work for
nothing. It’s pretty convenient that it was operational.
Why leave it set up if you have blue prints?
If the fusion bomb is unstable, is dragging it along the ground a smart idea?
When Miranda slept with Bruce Wayne, why didn’t she kidnap him then? Or
fight him then? The League of Shadows attacked Wayne at his home in the
first movie. Would it just be rude now? Why not attack the people he
loves, like Alfred and Lucius?
Why did catwoman want Bruce Wayne’s finger prints? They are never used, but seem important in the first act.
Did Bruce Wayne’s leg heal while he was in the pit? Did Bane leave him with his magic leg brace? Why would he do that?
Was the pit in another country? Did they fly there from Gotham? Did
they fly first class? Did they hijack a plane? How long was the trek?
Where did they put Batman during the flight? Did they also kidnap an
engineer to put a TV in the cell? How did that work? Why is it filled
with old men?
If Catwoman’s great at stealing other people’s
identity to the point where she was hired by Bruce Wayne and co. Why
does she care about eliminating her past? It never seems to be a problem
for her freedom.
WHY DID THEY INCLUDE ROBIN?!?!?!?! Fuck Nolan!
It’s depressing how many people have tried to apply Plinkett-level deconstruction to every goddamn movie now.
Also Bat,an s stabbed at the end but then it just kinda didn’t matter.
It seems to me you’re missing out on a whole connected plot line here. For starters, Catwoman stole the fingerprints for Dagget. Dagget gave them to Bane so he could force through the trade which ruined Bruce Wayne. Once he’s ruined, he would lose control of the nuclear reactor. She knew the reactor was functional, she stated the facts that led Bruce to state it wasn’t working after the nuclear scientist’s article. She never actually owned the device until she gained control of Wayne Industries, and even at that point if she had stolen the device she would not have been able to keep it. One of the reasons her plot advanced to the point it had gotten to was that Bane was able to incapacitate the police force and convince the populace it was a “liberation.”
My biggest gripe with TDKR was that the evil plot started getting stupid after a while. I really liked the financial-hijacking stuff it started out with, it kind of brought the whole league of shadows antagonism full-circle since in BB they were talking about attempting to take down Gotham economically and all that. But then it just devolves into LOL WE ARE THE 99% ARMY where it beats you over the head with current event commentary and my eyes just rolled out of my skull.
Sometimes, people deserve to have their faith rewarded.
Bless you, Jay and Mike.
She never stole the bomb because the government of Gotham and it’s infrastructure were still pretty intact.
No one said it wasn’t working, they said they were afraid to use it because it’s incredibly powerful and used wrong, could be used as a bomb.
If the fusion bomb is unstable, dragging it along the ground is pretty inconsequential to it going off altogether. He was proooobably just looking to gtfo of the city with the bomb.
They never attack the folks close to him because that is never their goal. I guess they could(?) but what purpose would that serve, that isn’t served and THEN some, when they attack all of Gotham and serve it carved on a platter for the world to see?
Maybe you didn’t see the movie, but the fingerprints are used to sell Wayne’s money on the stock market, putting his company in the ground, and forcing control of the company, to that evil bish. Catwoman steals them, in exchange for “a clean slate”.
Agreeably, his leg, and the hole in general are never clarified or given detail to, they are just there.
Catwoman was okay-ish at stealing identities, it’s theft of real property and having a silver tongue that made her an excellent “cat”burglar
Please please please provide a link to that E.T. without music clip!
Respectfully disagree. This movie is BAAAD. Editing, story, acting it’s all so bad.
You guys hit it right on the head. I thoroughly enjoyed the movie the whole way through.
The fingerprints were used to authorize the stock trade that put Wayne in the poor house.
Also, the fusion bomb was unstable because of decay of a substance on an atomic level, not because there are wires loose or a piece banging around inside or some nitroglycerin about to set it off or something, so banging it around wouldn’t have been too much of a problem.
I always thought The Room had a pretty emotional core…
Wow, I need to watch this, too bad it doesn´t come out in my country until Thursday next week 🙁
And The Dark Knight was brilliant, damn near being a masterpiece.
Btw I have never heard people complain about plot holes in Nolan movies. Must have missed those online message boards, but am glad that I did.
the bruce bane bit cracked me up so much 😀
Thanks for the awesome review. We should start a drinking game where every time you down The Amazing Spider Man we all have to take a shot. There were 8 or 9 at least in this review.
Great job guys, nice and balanced without any of the rabid fan-boy moaning (Harry “Wah!Wah! They didn’t make me MY Batman movie!” Knowles).
I didn’t think the thing with Alfred at the end was such a plot hole. He had said originally, “I go to such and such place in this city and order this drink.” It wasn’t completely random.
wait so that part at the end when alfred sees bruce, that’s actually supposed to be real? i thought it was like…a dream or just alfred imagining it because he wanted it so badly for him and bruce. idk i guess just thought it would be too far fetched if it was really happening
I’m glad that you guys enjoyed this movie, and didn’t tear it apart. I agree that there were some small plot issues (or “holes”) and I agree with Jay about the first act. Things seemed a little bit clunky, jumbled, and messy to me in the first act, while the pieces were being put in place. After that it was great.
Also, most people have mentioned how it was sometimes hard to hear what Bane was saying. I can admit that I didn’t catch everything either. TDKR shared some issues that I had with TDK, in that sometimes the dialogue in general didn’t always come through. Sometimes I wish character voices were higher.
I saw this movie in IMAX and really felt the punch from explosions and gunshots. I’m not that big into gunfights but in this movie, every shot was intense.
All this said, my biggest problem was how ambitious TDKR felt for a single movie. It had 2 hours and 45 minutes to get things done, but it felt like it was always rushed along to fit everything in. I could easily see it being a two-part movie, giving more time to certain elements in each part. In the end, though, fitting everything in and tying it all together with the two previous movies while staying below a 3-hour running time was an impressive feat.
Mr.Pink, good call about the Alfred/Ending. I was sure he said where he was going to be. BTW I think a better drinking game would be whenever the guys say “Schlock” (although I think they managed to go without this week!).
Hmm i agree with a lot of what they said, i thought bane was well done as was catwoman and the central theme about the rise of batman was pretty effective. That being said i think the movie started to fall apart in the last third, it was so convoluted/over the top and so much stuff happened that what tension there was disappeared entirely.
IE he gets stabbed in the back by a trained assassin and its no big deal, spends two minutes dodging missiles because they wanted to blow some of the cgi budget, the whole melodramatic charge of the cops etc. That and Talia/Bane’s motivations don’t really make sense/their plan just seems stupid.
Worst of the series for me, though had enough good things not to be a bad movie
So you’re saying Nolan can do whatever he wants and everybody has to believe it? At what point do you call him out on his bullshit? A guy getting his vertebrae punched back into his body is okay to you? What if Bane ripped off Batman’s head, and the old guy sewed it back on again and everything was okay? Would you accept that? Why not?
I’m willing to accept a lot, as long as the preposterous implausibility isn’t slapping me in the face and insulting my intelligence.
I imagine Bruce followed Alfred, to make sure that cafe moment happened. You know, in a Batmany appear/disappear kind of way, that he does so often.
Weird. More time was spent talking about Inception, The Avengers, and Spider-man, than actually giving analysis of TDKR. Too much schtick at the beginning too.
I knew you geniuses would love this movie, because apparently we are destined to disagree about every superhero movie. Except The Avengers, of course.
who else lost it at that’s my bane?
Serious? I didn’t like the Amazing Spiderman but it at least was a tighter story than the bloated mess that was DKR. This was the Jabba the Hut of movies. The pacing is annoyingly slow. All the major action happens within the first third of the movie making all tension disappear. The “love” stories were tact on and the “twists” were insulting to a baby’s intelligence. And NO ONE can give me a good reason as to why this movie is good. All I hear is it was a “spectacle,” and “visceral”. Transformers was those things too but that doesn’t make them good!
It’s the elderly that hate Christopher Nolan.
I do agree that it was kind of odd that Bruce Wayne just magically appears back in Gotham when all the bridges are blown up and no one is allowed in.
“Robin” isn’t THE Robin, otherwise the rebuilt Batsignal would be a…Robinsignal or something. It’s just a little tongue-in-cheek reference to the Batman universe. Like that comment earlier in the movie about giant crocodiles living in the sewer. Croc doesn’t REALLY exist in Nolanverse Batman, it’s just a little fanservice remark.
you guys havent seen The Prestige….OHHHH MYYYY GOOOODDDDDD
Agreed. I’m curious as to why Mike and Jay (as they even admitted in the review) decide this time to forgive elements of the film that they thrash elsewhere. Saying ‘it just works in this movie’ is pretty lame. A weak script, several bad miscasts (they mentioned mathew modine), stupid macguffin bomb, stupid way of making bruce wayne broke (thumb print and hacked wallstreet, really?) m knight twist that contradicts things they told you in the movie, predictable ending (on the auto pilot and last scene), unnecessary social/political commentary that doesn’t service the story (as they said it’s about batman rising), the worst “tuff guy” slug fest fight scenes from two HIGHLY trained martial artists, character actions that made no sense (we’ll trap, then feed thousands of cops for 4 months telling the audience we plan to rehabilitate the cops, even though they just planned on blowing them up anyway), scenes that make no sense (lightly armed police will run down tanks, fire a few rounds and then get in fist fights- that’s police tactics 101 at the academy), and the list goes on and on.
I will agree the start was horrible and clunky and took me a long time to get into it (and there were a few times I could), but so many other things pulled me right back out of it. Matthew Modine was a horrible casting, Marion Cotillard is just annoying with her horrible accent, and only bane’s voice is surpased in horribleness than by christian bale’s batman voice. Anne Hathaway and Joseph Gordon-Levitt were good casting/acting. My opinion- the script was on par with Star Trek Generations and First Contact for having characters do things for the sake of getting an action scene, regardless if they made sense or not.
I think the whole Occupy-esque bad guy thing wasn’t meant to be taken seriously since we know Bane was just trying to complete the League of Shadows’ mission. The League wasn’t actually trying to make Gotham a better place, just starve it to death, and Bane was after the same thing. So I think the Economic Justice thing was meant to be a ruse so Bane would have something other than “your city needs to die” to tell the people of Gotham and get bad people on his side.
Agreed. Last third was rushed for sure. And why even bother having Batman get stabbed if you’re going to ignore it completely? I didn’t get that at all.
Because TDKR wasn’t that good. If they actually took the time to analyze it they would reveal how much it sucked.
You realize the film was written and shot (partly) before the occupy movement and the whole 99% craze began right?
I hope the next Batman installation will have him sounding like a human instead of that weird dinosaur growl that Bale seems to be stuck in. It ruined Terminator and it’s the reason I still haven’t seen his Batman performances.
… That’s the reason you haven’t seen Nolan’s Batman films? Are you some kind of idiot?
To me, this was a movie that had a lot of great ideas that, while not necessarily coming together in the most perfect fashion (the script could have been tightened up, some elements combined for a better flow, etc) were definitely worth exploring. Although you’re right, it was about as different from the Avengers as could be, and I’m sure that’s got to just be pissing some people right off. I saw this at a marathon, and it’s really amazing how different all three movies are. At the very least, you gotta commend Nolan for not just making the same thing three times over.
Good vid but get some sun boys, the new set up shows off those pasty legs.
No one else is Batman.
Miranda does not steal the bomb because she wants to the bomb to go off.
She goes through Dagget because it involves destroying Wayne on a financial level.
The device did not work as its intended purpose. Hence Bane bringing the scientist with him to alter it into a bomb.
She didn’t kidnap him then, because the whole point was taking the Batman to his lowest point. She took his money. She took his company. She took his city. She broke his body. Then, she would have killed him.
Bruce’s finger prints were used at the stock market to poorly invest Wayne’s stocks (this part was clearly explained at least twice).
Bruce’s leg brace re-set his leg. He was in the pit long enough with it having been reset that it would have healed (a bigger plot hole though is how over the course of 3 months, he could have healed well enough to escape the pit from having vertebrae sticking out of his back).
Catwoman wanted to erase herself so she could start fresh and not have to rely on her thieving anymore.
All the major action happens within the first third of the movie making all tension disappear.”
Did you run out to the bathroom during the entire cop battle/Bane-Batman fistfight/aerial nuke chase segment or something?
I like pale skin. Stop being a douche.
Regarding the whole “How did Bruce did back in Gotham” question: I assumed that he just walked across the ice. He was able to do so because of that fight he had with Liam Neeson on the ice in the 1st movie: “you must learn to mind your surroundings” or whatnot.
The cop battle was pathetic. That’s how we’re going to end it? Serious? Batman has used his head to get out of every situation but with Bane it all comes down to a boxing match? I thought the whole idea around Bane was that Batman could never beat him in hand to hand combat so it always had to come down to brawn vs wit definitely wasn’t that in the end.
Regardless, it shows just how horribly misled all the “Occupiers” were. They weren’t good people regardless of who was leading them. And isn’t that the way communism always works in practice? It always requires someone to rule with an iron fist, and the leader is always led by self-interest and merely using the naivety of the idealistic communists to put themselves in power or further some agenda. The idealists are called “useful idiots” for a reason.
I agree with them. Spiderman movie wasn’t as good because it was just oh time to stop the lizard guy. TDKR has much more of a emotional connection with the film. Also it had just as many plot holes if not more.Tranformers is a clusterfuck of having no idea who is fighting who and what is going on. TDKR you knew what was going on at every moment. It has a better story about coming back into doing something after being gone a long time. The struggles of overcoming your fears and rising again.
Batman’s strikes damaged his mask and led to his defeat. Seemed like wits to me.
Hurrr was Drive also a bad film? They talked about it not that long either.
Comic book movies aren’t really there for realism. Look at superman.
Not when in the last film he saved hostages from being killed by the police while also catching the Joker. That took brains, slicing Bane’s breathing thing should have been the first thing he tried to do.
They didn’t ignore it completely. You’ll notice Batman didn’t get into anymore hand-to-hand brawls after he was stabbed. He just managed to hold his insides together long enough to pilot the Bat, which a guy who’s been stabbed would be capable of doing.
If you wanted him to wince a few more times while piloting it, okay. That’s your preference. I find it pretty nitpicky.
Considering Terminator came out like 4 or 5 years after Batman Begins, I’d have to say you had other reasons for not seeing the movie and more so, you’re a blithering idiot for not recognizing that fact.
So you didn’t like it? And why? (genuine question as I haven’t seen it yet.)
Also, Talia wasn’t aiming to kill Batman. She told Bane she wanted him alive to see Gotham die.
Lenon was a doctor in Memento, hence why he makes a cameo. In your world, you saw him as the Gyno from a terrible rom-com that only re-tards would watch. (FIRST)
Uh, what “superhero” movie is realistic at all? Thoughts?
TDKR is the worst superhero film EVER !!! Yes even worse than Spiderman 3. Its on par with Batman forever. Crappy acting, shitty directing and lame half ass action scenes. How can anyone like this film is beyond me. If you like this film your a hipster. Sooooooo many sheep everywhere. Glad ive got good tatse and can see this film for the trash/rubbish it is.
Are these adverts for real? Fuck off
Is it bingo night grandpa?
I never thought about it like that, but that does make a lot of sense. Bravo, sir.
What emotional connections? How could anyone feel anything for any of these characters? Bruce has just gone emo over Dent when in the last movie it established that of all things his death should have inspired him to be better. The love stories were dumb just straight stupid. I can’t understand how this was a good story, it was convoluted, two hours of filler, and a last minute effort to create a story at the end.
There isn’t really much spoilers in it.
Haven’t seen it. Thought we were talking about DKR Hurrr
Kickass or super maybe? Actually they are pretty unrealistic too.
Rich Evans, Mike S & the Plinkett voice
Trent Reznor, Johnny Cash & the song ‘Hurt’
Actually they shot in NYC last autumn during the Occupy thing. It was a deliberate effort to add that in.
Mathew Modine did have a purpose in the film. He was afraid and let his fear keep him from standing up against Bane. He withdrew into his house and Gordon helped change his mind. He ended up dying for his cause as a police officer.
Glenn Beck ladies and douchebags.
The plots don’t necessarily have to be realistic but suspension of disbelief only goes so far. It’s why in the Avengers when Iron Man is falling from the sky and Hulk catches him, it seems more likely he would have survived that than if he had landed straight on the ground.
Ha ha, totally. Can’t wait until school is back in session so these children stay away from grown folks.
Great movies but not 250 million dollar spectacles.
I’m pretty sure you’re actually retarded.
Thomas Lennon played a Doctor in Memento.
If you like TDKR, you’re a mindless sheep but if you don’t, you’re some sort of hipster douche.
Frankly, anything that inspires such rage is doing something right…
Well… it was Gordon and Batman who helped change his mind. Remember, Foley looked out of his window and saw the burning Bat symbol on the bridge.
Remember, these movies have always been concerned about Batman as a symbol. People need dramatic examples to shake them out of apathy. What chance does Gotham have if the good people do nothing?
ha douche. comon man lighten up.
This conversation has to be sarcastic, since when did ice freeze lakes in the deserts of Arabia or wherever he was suppose to be?
BUt the movie was shit?
I am pretty sure I remember right now at least 3 to 4 DC comics characters that can pull off the head thing, the point its never how implausible the act its but how you present it for the audience to believe it.
WOW they rewrote the script half way through shooting the movie and it wasn’t based on the book “A Tale of Two Cities” ?
I’m glad someone else doesn’t feel the need to compare this to The Avengers. Both are great at what they do.
That is my fav Non-Batman Nolan film.
I don’t want to die from alcohol poisoning!
I find it cute, how everyone is bashing this movie, but RLM loved it, they trash everything to shit and they liked it, I think you people are the hipsters here…..
Arabia? you complain to much about a movie you apparently didn’t even see its prequels
I think the reason Bane’s voice was always so loud and clear and front-and-center was because if it was quiet and in the background, nobody would understand what the heck he was saying.
Skip to 0:55 – the fight on ice that I’m referring to happened in a scene in Batman Begins, not the Dark Knight Rises.
The joke about the elderly: the controversy regarding people posting about Nolan was that any critics who had anything negative to say were inundated by posts rabidly DEFENDING Nolan, not bashing him. Of course, most of these posters were probably kids who were at an impressionable age when they first saw the Nolan Batman movies, thus the joke about old people; but you completely missed what the controversy was actually about.
So glad you enjoyed it. It’s the first 5-star film I’ve seen this year. You didn’t mention what I consider to be Nolan’s masterpiece “The Prestige”. Have you not seen it? Where many of his films are a little sloppy and messy, The Prestige is quite the opposite, and is what I consider the best constructed film of all time, and the best film overall of the previous decade.
Yes, I think of RLM in the same way I think of the video game critic Yahzee (who has a show called Zero Punctuation) or Charlie Brooker.
They understand that most films, games and TV (respectively) are shit and have the taste and wit to trash what’s bad in an entertaining fashion.
The problem is; most of their ‘fans’ expect them to hate everything, so get butthurt when they finally point out something that’s good.
People who hate everything have just as little taste as those who love everything.
Sadly the skill to be able to tell the good from the bad and appreciate something for what it’s trying to do is dying out.
If you are familiar with Florence (Firenze), Alfred told Bruce almost exacty where he had been going on previous trips. Florence is not a large city, and there a only a handful of restaurants that overlook the Arno, IIRC. I think Afred even mentioned it was near the Ponte Vecchio. That probably narrowed it down to one or two places. (I don’t recall ANY open-air establishments in that area, for what it’s worth.)
RLM gets it wrong again. If it wasn’t for the Plinkett reviews, and the slaying of Jack and Jill, this site would be useless
Great episode. The widescreen gag was one of the funniest things you’ve done in a while. Lots of good points and very entertaining, but I wish you wouldn’t let the real world bleed into the show were you end up talking more about how you think others should interpret movies and try to claim some sort of “truth” to how it is supposed to be done. I think you will eventually wind up stabbing yourselves in the foot if you keep doing things like that, seeing how it is all clearly opinion.
If anything, make a satire of the fanbase and/or the people complaining and make a point as to WHY it is sometimes ok to have, for example, a whole bunch of plot-holes laying around. To stand up and just explain why you think it should work that way just makes your show preachy and awkward rather than entertaining. There are no set rules for how movies are intended to be appreciated or critizised. If you feel like doing it in one way that is fine, but don’t go around telling other people how they’re supposed to do it.
Again, if you can make a point through an ACTION by a gag and such in the show I think that is more acceptable, but when you’re just sitting down TALKING opinion on how to appreciate movies I think it belongs more in an oversized wall of text such like this rather than in a show that’s supposed to talk about movies rather than talk about how you’re supposed to talk about the movies you are talking about. That’s what I’m talking about.
Amazing as usal
That was more or less my take as well. Basically, you could either handle it that way, or you had to pull a Goldfinger. The point of the scene was that the true big baddie needed to gloat and reveal the “real” master plan, while Batman was helpless to intervene. While the stabbing wasn’t a perfect solution, it sure beats putting the hero in a death trap and walking away.
I guess you are too cynical to enjoy movies these days
Michel Keaton and Michel Peiffer forever … seriously, who needs that patriotic batman … do they always need to bring down the whole society for you to be able to be emotionaly touched? … and what whith this military stuff? … this isnt badman or any form of ‘movie’ at all … anyone who gets touched by abominations like this has just fallen to the commercial manipulation of hollywood … better luck next time
Yeah I assumed that Bruce knew which restaurant he liked and deliberately went there so Alfred would see him.
Michael Keaton is not that good of a actor. He always has that dull expression on his face like Keanu Reeves. You obviously don’t know what you are talking about. Bale did give us a better performance. Michel Peiffer I might agree with you on. Burton’s Batman films were much more cheesy and not in the good way. It wasn’t as bad as Batman Forever, but it didn’t have anyone with the same performance Ledger had.
Dang it. There are two David Ls here. I’m the one who LIKED the movie.
Naw. Really liked The Dark Knight. This one had too many plot holes and tried to do too much. Bane was great though (until he turned into a crying lackey at the end anyway)
Dark Knight had just as many if not more plot holes. What the heck are you even on? Joker jumping on the civilian bus when exiting the hospital with his makeup on and no one noticed? Bank robbery in broad daylight and nobody notices a bus going through a building or a guy sky lining across to the bank? You are the nitpicker they talked about in this video who doesn’t get Nolan aims for the bigger picture and core message like in Inception.
I agree about the plot holes in Dark Knight. But I would need a notebook to keep track of all the ones in this film. I love the spine repair by one punch, and the guy escaping a prison and getting back to Gotham 30 minutes later, in costume and exactly where he needs to be to save Robin. Talia was rubbish too. Like I said, I didn’t bring my notebook to the theater. Glad you liked the film.
Michael Keaton was always miscast as Batman. The fact that he ended up doing better in the role than either Kilmer or Clooney is damning with faint praise.
There’s nothing “patriotic” about the Bale/Nolan Batman; he’s a humanist that doesn’t want to see millions of people killed or maimed.
Didn’t pay attention to the movie = plot holes/worst movie of all time
Huh I’m surprised they didn’t talk about or maybe didn’t notice that the movie repeats itself. Batman returns gets his butt kicked and dies, Batman returns, kicks butt back and dies again.
I would have liked the movie more is if Batman had been crushed by Bane almost immediately and spent a majority of the movie in the pit getting his shit together while Bane runs rampant in the city. As it was it just felt rushed with extra characters that didn’t need to be there, other than for setting up a spin off. Harvey Dent act is evil, yet only people we see being oppressed by it are hard core criminals, so who gives a fuck? Once the city is occupied the population disappears and the only people we see are the mercenary army and the cops (who lined up in a giant line and somehow don’t get mowed down machine gun fire). It’s stuff like that kept popping me out of the movie.
I suspect that the main thing that will divide people between loving this movie and being ‘meh’ about it is if they were able to guess the plot and twist in the first 30 minutes. I did and it sucked a lot out of the movie but for the compatriots with me who didn’t they had a much better time.
There is also the fact that Bruce Wayne is one of the most skilled infiltrators on the planet if anyone can sneak past the insane security surrounding Gotham at that the time it’s him.
I thought The Dark Knight actually fit in rather well with the first and third movie. Rachel’s death and Harvey’s corruption mark the point in the overall story where Bruce realizes that fire cannot be fought with fire, and that using his fists to club crime into submission will never bring justice to his parent’s memory. The Batman was an agent of fear, perhaps useful against opportunistic mobsters, but useless against an enemy as chaotic and tortured as The Joker. It isn’t until the third movie that Bruce Wayne realizes the truth of what Rachel tried to tell him in the very first film: his father’s legacy had nothing to do with fighting crime as a symptom, and it had everything to do with addressing lawlessness at it’s root: helping to establish social justice and economic opportunities for the underclass, many of whom, out of desperation, join Bane in his attack on the affluent. And it is anger, we learn in the third movie, that had for so long closed Bruce’s eyes to what he really needed to do. Bane was Bruce’s “reckoning”.
Not sure if the spoiler-ending-time is correct… :/
I also like the “I will torture your mind by making you watch this video monitor of Gotham City”. And then a little while later batman just throws a rock and breaks the TV monitor
This. The film was expanding upon the situation Bane presents, and came to the same conclusions about what would happen that we’ve seen played out in practice in virtually every communist revolution ever (show trials, executions of the members of the upper class, etc). I do think Bane was just doing it as a blind to mask his real intentions, but the man obviously knew what kind of chaos he was going to bring into the city by declaring his actions a social revolution. The film’s not commenting on the OWS movement, just the results of these kind of class warfare movements, in general. And if that bothers anybody in regards to OWS… well, maybe it’s time to read up on some of the history of communist/Marxist revolutions.
Goddamnit now Im more exited about finding out whats going on with the kill-the-repairman plot than about watching new batman movie. Fuck you.
I understand what you mean, because it did feel very Inception-ish. But yeah, with the autopilot fix… it wasn’t a dream.
you guys have to see Nolan’s best movie “the prestige” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And he is the World’s Greatest Detective…
I saw this movie today, and was delighted to find the HITB review already up. You guys provided a lot of relief after Prometheus.
I thought that the movie was great, and I left the theater a very satisfied customer. I also enjoyed the review, however I would say that I missed the part where you guys actually get into ‘the meat of the review’ and pick the movie apart?
Don’t get me wrong, I agree that the movie was excellent overall, and I would recommend anyone to go and see it. But I still found plenty of stuff to bitch about afterward and I would have loved to see you guys discuss it… For example the utterly pointless plot twist toward the end that (in my opinion) rendered the main bad guy totally pointless; and the entire character of Miranda Tate – why was she in this movie?
Overall I’d say that I found Prometheus something of a missed opportunity, while this is a… ‘Grabbed’ opportunity. Still, there were some annoyances, and I want to see other people bitch about them on the internet. I guess ultimately what I’m trying to say is that Mike and Jay are overrated hacks and frauds, and HITB sucks.
The highlights and shadows on the billboard in the last scene was all wrong, You overrated hacks!
I know right, two weeks feels like forever. I mean, I get it, but still.
I’m pretty sure he came back as Bruce Wayne, not Batman.
You need to rewatch Batman Begins, mon capitan.
Oh wait, I just read the ice thing. But what I mean is he didn’t come in is as Batman, meaning he didn’t use any gadgets or flying devices that would help him enter the city. I guess walking across the ice would work.
How did he get into his Batman costume though? Did Bane leave it outside the prison/well for him? Or did he walk across the ice, go to his house/Bat Cave and get it, then spread diesel or whatever in the shape of a bat on top of the bridge, then go into the middle of the ice, then walk back to shore in time to same Gommissioner Cordon? If so, nicely timed.
It doesn’t matter btw, it just didn’t make any sense and I accept and am fine with it.
I agree that TDKR could have flowed a lot more smoothly.
In HD the video played a little faster than it loaded, so I was stuck looking at Jay not moving for a long time. I decided Jay needs to be a hot chick. Please make that happen.
So, are you guys saying that Whats your number and The Dark Knight Rises take place in the same universe?
I don’t think it was a plot hole either, but it was my least favorite part of the movie. It felt a little forced and cheesy, and ultimately inappropriate, especially since Bruce raised his glass to him, and the last time they saw one another it was on such bad terms.
I think Alfred should’ve told him about the restaurant, and he should’ve said that he always hoped he’d see Bruce with a woman, and that he always stayed in the restaurant until the person *turned around* and he could confirm it *wasn’t* Bruce before leaving.
Then, during the end of the film, you could have the same seen, yet this time have Alfred smile at the couple (not seeing whether or not it was Bruce), and then have him leave before the man turns, just happy in the *hoping* that it was Bruce. Then after Alfred leaves, we can (or maybe not) reveal that it is actually Bruce. I think that would’ve been better.
He’s talking about the prison that Wayne escaped from.
That’s another thing that isn’t really covered. Apparently it’s just a hop skip and a jump from this nondescript, middle-eastern prison to a metropolitan American city.
Miranda Tate should of been left out of the film. I think I would of liked TDKR a lot more if she wasn’t in it. Her story felt rather pointless and just added more to an already crowded movie.
I still enjoyed TDKR, I just think the pacing could have been better. 3.5/5 stars for me.
How on earth is the Alfred seeing Bruce Wayne at the restaurant even a plot hole? It is more than plausible they kept contact after Bruce Wayne fakes his death.
The uberfast day to night transition in the stock exchange chase scene IS a plot hole because the plausibility simply isn’t there.
The whole day/night transition thing happened quite a number of times throughout the movie, and while it didn’t really bother me much at first, it gradually took me out of the movie the more it happened. It was also pretty jarring how it went from, okay, Bane enacts his master plan, and now it’s spontaneously 40 days later, and then after a couple of scenes it’s spontaneously another 40 days later. Christopher Nolan doesn’t really seem to deal well with time, and while it’s okay to overlook some of that in terms of plot, I think having a sense of WHEN things are happening can be just as important as where. It’s like the time version of shaky cam.
I have to agree. Matthew Modine’s entire character story was unnecessary in this movie. The story would’ve been the same whether or not his character was there or not.
How did Batman get his costume back? They show first hand how he gets his costume back! Bruce and Lucias Fox stop by the makeshift “Batcave” Bruce was using in The Dark Knight, and they even have a big moment when the costume rises out of the floor! It’s not like he only had one suit or something– that was true for the Batman Begins suit, but since his newer suit was specially manufactured for him, there’s nothing saying he couldn’t have multiple sets made.
The only real question here is “how did Bruce get back to Gotham City”– which isn’t much of a question, since… well, he’s Batman. Even without his usual resources, he’s resourceful.
Thank you guys for so eloquently stating my own personal feelings about The Dark Knight Rises. I loved the movie, but I’ve been getting a little bothered by the anti-Nolan sentiment I’ve been reading online a lot recently (from the elderly, of course). His films really are sort of more about emotion and character than plot, and I guess that rubs some people the wrong way or something, but the backlash coming off of some of his films is just ridiculous…
Anyway, great review, guys! Keep up the good work.
Didn’t Bruce have to find Luscious Fox first to ask him where the suit was? or am i mixing up the order of scenes?
I’d have to agree with what you’re saying. The biggest problem for me in this film though was the fact that the city turned to shit so easily after Bane blew up everything. This is the same city that faced the Joker and his anarchy-inducing attempts only 8 years previously. The set-up was similar in that film, with the two boat-loads of people who had the option of killing the other boat to save themselves, but didn’t because they are humans! In this film, anyone we see just loses control and goes ape.
Everyone just believes Bane when he reads the Commissioners retirement speech. How did everyone know this giant, scary monster man (who just blew up a good chunk of the city and is now trapping everyone in the city) was telling the truth? It reminded me a bit of Palpatine fooling the senate in the Star Wars prequels. But I guess they had no cops to fight for them since they all went into the sewers to find Bane, and got trapped but not killed. (Were the sewers THAT big? Why didn’t they just go upstream from where Commissioner Gordan exited the sewers when he got shot?). That was a bit of a “magic plot device” moment when all the cops decided to go into the sewers on that day, on the day of the big football game.
Meh, didn’t like it. Dark Knight was way better. This review was inconsistent with other RLM reviews I felt.
Also, how is Plinketts house anywhere near that corner at the start of the review? Didn’t they get driven for like 1/2 hour to a place they were unfamiliar with a couple of episodes ago? :o)
Did they? I totally forgot that scene. Honestly, all I remember is him looking out on the Afghan (?) city near the prison, then him walking across the ice. What do Bruce and Fox talk about in that scene?
Bane sounds like an eastern European Sean Connery.
I just chalked it up to “he’s the goddamn Batman”
Pleasantly surprised. I half-expected you guys to tear it apart.
Did the gang perpetrate a deliberate continuity error while discussing Nolan’s sloppiness as a film maker? Just before the E.T. clip Mike has a cup – it disappears during it – and following the next clip he acquires the same bottled beer as Jay. Half in the bag sucks – it has so many plot holes. Nah – it’s the emotional journey of our heroes that counts. I’ve a great suggestion – stand the the widescreen TV on its end and re-enact the beginning of 2001: a space odyssey. (Get the gorilla suit out of wardrobe!) It could segue into a scene featuring Fuck Bot 5000. Will Mike & Jay fare any better fixing the communications dish of a spaceship en route to Jupiter?
I agree with you guys about the “forgivable plot holes” in good movies. Take a look at one of the greatest Sci-Fi films in history “The Terminator”, which has a 100% Fresh rating at Rottentomatoes. That film has one of the largest plot holes in the history of cinema. Why would an army of machines, an army run by a computer, use nuclear weapons to annihilate all of mankind? Wouldn’t the resulting EMP’s from those bombs really fuck up the works for Skynet and it’s terminator army? Wouldn’t it have been better for Skynet to a few robots to break into some CDC and release some sort of virus or bacteria that *only* affects living things? But like you said, you forgive those holes because that’s not the point of the movie. The point was, Machines tear down civilization, and this seemingly normal woman from the 1980s has to come to terms with the fact that she’s going to give birth to the savior of mankind. It’s about Sarah Connor’s story arc, not the future destruction of the world.
I have always really liked Christopher Nolan, and when people talk about plot holes or inconsistencies in his films I feel like they’re missing a huge part of why he makes films the way he does. Nolan has stated over and over again that his film deal very much with subjectivity. The audience does not have an omniscient perspective of the story, they have a very limited perspective of the story, usually restricted to the point of view of one character, and that’s what makes it interesting.
A subjective perspective is not going to be flawless, our biases, our perspectives, our emotions all change the way we view things, and things we believe may not always be objectively “right.” It’s the classic literary device of the unreliable narrator.
In a way, Memento is almost like his thesis statement on this as the whole film deals with memory and how someone with a flawed point of view will not necessarily understand things in the same way as you or I. That is why I find Nolan’s films so fascinating is because they force the audience to filter everything through point of view rather than having an objective perspective, and it leads to thought provoking discussions about the film and how each person interprets it.
One plot hole I was hoping you would bring up was that Officer Blake just *knows* that Bruce Wayne is Batman because they are both orphans and orphans can smell their own. My brain was really bothered by that one.
Also, you could have thought of a more creative setting than just returning to Plinkett’s house. You are both overrated hacks. Just kidding, I love you guys, no hard feelings OK?
I have to avoid Nolan movies precisely because people spaff over him like he’s a genius. These are films about a man who dresses up as a bat and puts on a silly gravelly voice, but people act like it’s King fricking Lear.
They’re making their plan to stop Bane, and they’re pulling equipment out from some kind of shelving unit that comes out from the wall. Fox says he can get the reactor stable, but that they need an EMP drive (or something) from the Bat to stop any sort of detonation signal sent to the bomb. Fox asks Bruce, “You remember where you parked it?” (This line is in a lot of the T.V. spots.) The scene doesn’t even last for a full minute, but they do make a point of showing the Bat-suit come up from the floor (just like it did in The Dark Knight).
The very next scene is Fox and Bruce on a rooftop, pulling the plot-device doohickey from the Bat, and Fox bringing up the autopilot that Bruce never supposedly fixed.
Eh, I let that Blake plot hole go because I think it was supposed to be a loose callback to Tim Drake, who figured out Bruce’s identity though plain detective work. Sure, the reasoning behind it is… tenuous, at best, but they needed to establish a rapport between the two characters, and the scene also gives us some nice insight into Blake’s character.
Have not seen this film and will not. So many people agree its shit. Cant argue with the majority. Gonna wait for online stream instead.
I think I might have missed something because I stoill cannot understand why Jay’s shirt is tore up. Please tell me if this is a reference to something because I am a die hard red lette media fan and seen it all; but I still cannot figure it out why. Is Jay just a bum because he is a VCR repair guy?:)
Yeah, but the whole reason Blake exists in the story is that so his full name can be revealed at the very end. The character could have been a combo of JGL and Modine. Also, I think that had Heath Ledger not died, the Joker would have been the Judge at the show trials. But by mentioning the Joker aloud, I’ve just disgraced the memory of Heath Ledger. Oh well.
You do realize that every critical aggregator has given this thing a positive rating? That would seem to imply that the majority thinks this is a GOOD movie.
But either way, congratulations on deciding not to form your own opinion.
Please don’t ever become a screen writer
Sloppy? When was he sloppy?
Yeah, actually, I though the Joker was probably meant to be the show-trial judge too! Goyer and Nolan have said that they were coming up with ideas well in advance of writing a script. Maybe I’m just thinking too much about that episode of “Batman: TAS” where the Arkham inmates hold a show trial for Batman with the Joker as the judge. Or that episode of The Flash where Mark Hammill’s Trickster holds a show trial.
Either way, it would have been awesome… but I guess it just wasn’t meant to be.
Also, I don’t think the ONLY reason Blake is around is for that little tongue-in-cheek reference to his name. The point of the movie is supposed to be that Batman is a symbol that can be perpetuated by ANYONE– even a beat cop from Gotham P.D. Blake represents ALL the good people in Gotham who are just trying to fight for decency in a world crumbling all around them. He just also happens to be named… well, you know.
It’s not a bad film. It is one of the best action films I have seen in a long time. Catwoman and Bane were great. It just has some flaws, and it doesn’t quite live up to the last Batman film
Plot holes are ok now? As long as it Batman right? Banes voice was hilariously bad, and wasn’t Lucius drowning? That wasn’t a very sealed chamber if he could somehow swim out, good thing it wasn’t built to stop a nuclear melt down or anything. I’m kinda of lost gentlemen, i usually love how you can dissect and show how things don’t make sense, but nope not for batman because it had some “emotion”. Kinda seems like you got paid for some good press…..
There could be extenuating circumstances that explain Skynet’s decision, but are never delved into in sufficient detail. For instance: Skynet is already in control of the US’ tactical nuclear strike capabilities. It’s all set up to start the war. Killing humans with a plague from a CDC sample would require infiltrating a secure facility which–presumably–isn’t computer-controlled, releasing the virus, and waiting for it to spread. And remember, this was after the humans already tried to shut down Skynet. So given the decision to wipe out most humans and some technological infrastructure in a matter of days, or wipe out most humans and no infrastructure in a matter of years, it went the quick and dirty route.
From SAMSUNG, maybe. The review didn’t affect my desire to see TDKR, but I now have this overwhelming urge to buy SAMSUNG products. SAMSUNG.
The plot would have been the same, but the themes wouldn’t have been as emotionally emphasized. The temptation to do nothing in the face of tyranny, the final decision to make the ultimate sacrifice in service of a greater cause–it shows how a person without the moral fortitude of Batman falls… and rises again.
Plus, there had to be some character in Law Enforcement that lead the hunt for Batman.
They don’t trash everything. In fact, they’ve praised a few movies that I didn’t like.
I think the truth about Nolan is, that he has these amazing complex storys in his brain but just isn´t a brilliant director or editor. That is to say he can make storys, that are endearing, frightening, exciting, meaningfull and generally engaging but his pictures for those are just diffrent versions of “personal” or “epic fight scenes”.
He is still a good director, don´t get me wrong, but he doesn´t speak with pictures like the top directors. He´d probably benefit greatly from a collaboration with a really brilliant director. I´m thinking David Lynch, Nicolas Wending Refn (Drive) just to name a few.
I concur, The Prestige is an awesome
film. I love how Nolan plays with narrative timeline. I love how he shows the
characters as ambiguous and lets the audience not route for one or the other.
This is how people really are. Great film.
I think when Mike talks about “the elderly” hating Nolan, he has to be referencing Rex Reed hating Nolan down to his very core.
I really wanted them to talk about John Blake.
The bridges weren’t all blown up. One was still intact to bring in pizza rolls and meds. If plain-clothed federal agents could sneak in through the front door, why not Batman?
Yeah, but the whole thrust of the Nolanverse was making Batman realistic.
The most disappointing thing about Kickass was that it sold itself as realistic, but completely abandoned that goal and went full-on fantastical.
Does the whole thing with Batman getting stabbed piss anyone off? Like, it looked like he was gonna die right there, then later hes running around rigging a nuke to his flying thing. It was totally unnecessary.
Can’t argue with the majority? What the fuck are you talking about? Transformers and Twilight are two of the most successful film franchises ever. 2.5 Men has higher viewership than The Wire. McDonalds is the most popular restaurant in the world. Less than 50% of Americans believe in evolution. If you wanna wait for the small screen, fine, but don’t rationalize that decision will bullshit.
The premise revolves around a man dressing as a bat and beating up criminals, I think we’ll live.
I actually prefer Kilmer, even if the movie around him was worse.
If you want to express support for Michael Keaton and Michelle Pfeiffer, maybe you should learn to spell their names. And how was Jack Nicholson’s Joker not trying to “bring down the whole society?” Batman movies have always featured a large-scale threat.
Always ruffles my feathers whenever someone calls the Nolan Batman movies “realistic” in any way. It’s no more realistic than the Marvel movies, just so grimdark that people are ignoring that it’s just as unrealistic as everything else.
One thing that I noticed (and many other people have noticed as well) was that there was little suspense.
In TDK, you never knew for sure what the Joker was going to do, where with Bane, you could see everything happening a mile away. Especially with the revelation of Raz Algul (sp?) daughter. That was the least surprising part of the movie and her death scene was flat out comical.
Well, considering the Terminator franchise centered around a robot who can imitate anyone, but has a thick Austrian accent, I’d say a weird voice isn’t what ruined Terminator: Salvation.
Also, can we call the sequel by its full name? Or at least “T4”? “Terminator” is a movie that came out in 1984, and doesn’t suck. I’d hate for them to be confused.
See, I didn;t like the movie. The plot was too complicated. They kept cramming way too much stuff in. It didn’t help that I couldn’t understand half of the characters’ voices.
Also, the action never stopped for the last hour or so. I was suffering from some serious action movie fatigue by the end. It was like trying to play through the entire Call of Duty campaign in one sitting. I got to the point where I was so burnt out that nothing happening onscreen affected me.
Being more towards the “Nolan hater” side, I don’t actually hate any of his movies, but “emotional core” is something I feel he utterly lacks. I feel zero emotional attachment when I watch the films, and the “spectacle” feels like a way of covering up bad storytelling. Plot holes galore, and I can’t get over it when that’s ALL I see. Terminator 2 has plot holes but I still love the film, I just wish Nolan knew how to have the craft of a film like that. Too much bombast, not enough slowing down and letting us get to know the characters better.
This movie is the completion of the Christopher Nolan Batman saga, known for it’s grittiness, gravelly voices, gray stuff, gray gravel, and gritty / gravelly voices. Our story opens the very next day after the events of the Dark Knight and we see Batman and Commissioner Gordon throwing the Joker in the slammer. The Joker says “I want my attorney!”, but Batman says, “Tough luck, sucker! Throw away the key!” and Commissioner Gordon LITERALLY flushes the key down a nearby toilet. Poop gets on the key! Great intro!
Next, Batman gets metaphorically and literally castrated. Because of his fall off of the roof in the Dark Knight, his privates get hurt and badly infected. They graphically show the surgery and this is another great example of the realism and grittiness these films are known for. Batman takes some time off to let his junk heal and cry about the death of his ugly girlfriend from part #2. Alfred, played by the sweetly charming Sir Michael Caine (Jumanji, Human Centipede, Jaws 4), keeps trying to boost Bruce Wayne’s spirits by dressing up as a clown and hiring strip-o-grams to come to the Wayne Manner, but Batman is like “Get away from me, old man! I’m mourning the loss of my privates and Rachel!”. Alfred gets sick of his whining and is like, “I loved you like a father loves a son, and like a man loves a woman! I’m out of here!”, and he leaves to go on vacation in Florida / Epcot Center.
All of the sudden, Catwoman sneaks in through a window they forget to latch and one of the great things that actress Anne Hathaway (Princess Diaries, Turner and Hooch, Jumanji, Human Centipede) brings to the table is her literal emulation of a cat, complete with purring sounds and “spraying” to mark her territory. Batman catches her sneaking around and they immediately have sex. This gets awkward due to Batman’s recent surgery. Catwoman is very sexy, like an ostrich or a giraffe wearing a wetsuit, but with human boobs. You will immediately get boners.
The next morning, Batman kicks Catwoman out of his bed and says “Go get a real job, you hooker! Here is twenty bucks for cab fare. Now get the hell out of my mansion!”. She starts to cry and leaves. All of the sudden the villain Baint shows up, played with relish by muscular thespian, Tom Hardy (Inception, Bronson, Air Bud 2, Human Centipede). Baint is a great villain because he tricks everyone by talking strangely. He says to Batman “I am your reckoning, because I am about to be ‘a-wreck-oning’ your city.” And Batman is like “Say what? Come again?” But Baint doesn’t repeat himself because the joke is already ruined. Baint gets frustrated and beats the crap out of Batman, pummeling his crotch, which is already in plenty of pain from his recent balls-removal surgery and Catwoman sexcapades.
Enter police rookie, John Blake, played with palpable sensuality by Joseph Gordon Levitt (3rd Rock from the Sun, Hesher, The Shawshank Redemption, Jumanji). He joins Batman’s team and becomes the superhero known in comic books as “Hawk Man”. Together these two guys become an unbeatable team of fighting fighters.
Next, Baint blows up a football game to help his favorite team cheat and win. Batman gets super mad about this because he wanted his team to win, so he asks his friend Lucius Fox, played with relish and somber delicateness by the wonderful Morgan Freeman (Shawshank Redemption, A Dolphin Tale, The Bucket List, Pirates of the Caribbean: The Black Man’s Chest), to build him a special ship called “The Bat.” Lucius does it and is like “We painted it black for you, because black people are the best, sucker!” Batman disagrees with this statement, but accepts the ship anyway. Morgan Freeman also constructs new genitals for Batman that look exactly like the Tumbler Batmobile. This new, powerful wang gives Batman the confidence he needs to rise (metaphorically and literally), and he “rises” into the air in his ship while blasting Chumbawumba’s “I Get Knocked Down” on the stereo (and he is also visibly aroused). Also, he “rises” to the occasion.
Next, he uses the ship to defeat Baint and decides to retire because his throat and his crotch is getting too sore from being Batman. He tosses the keys of the Bat Ship to Joseph Gordon Levitt and says, “She sticks a bit in 3rd gear and watch out for the blind spots”. Batman winks when he says “blind” and JGL immediately gets the joke, since bats are blind. They walk away together hand-in-hand, laughing hilariously as the sun sets on Gotham in the background. Cue Hans Zimmer’s bombastic score as credits roll across the screen.
Ten out of ten stars. Stick around through the credits for a hilarious blooper reel with Baint where he takes of his mask to reveal an awesome thick, black mustache.
Well that’s all fine, but what about Beasts of the Southern Wild? I won’t know how to feel about it until someone tells me.
Hi, I’m the point. You completely fucking missed me.
Well, unless you count those animated shorts they released between Begins and Dark Knight. But I can’t blame you for ignoring those.
As useless as your comment?
I understand *why* Nolan added him, but in a 2hr 45min movie, it really wasn’t necessary. They could’ve got that entire point across with a quick shot of a cop passing by a evidence wall in the police department.
the issue with bruce getting back into gotham was not hard to believe. Bane made it clear for no on TO LEAVE gotham. and that army and police had to help to keep them in. but it was said that the wanted to workout a deal for getting supplies and such into the city. then when the 3 special forces guys came in, it was under the guise of that delivery truck with food. so it is possible to smuggle yourself into the city. again, you can realize these things with the clues given. they are not yelled out to you. apparently, nolan wants his audiences to use their brains, and think. the nerve, right ? 😉
My “problem” with the movie was the foreshadowing killed any potential surprises.
You know the scene with the cafe will be something at the end of the movie. You know with how many times the auto pilot is mentioned it will come to play at the end of the movie. You know that the dude will be “Robin” when Batman keeps talking to him about masks and why he hides his face. You knew Talia was going to show up AND the be the kid in the prison as they only ever say “the child” over and over again”, etc.
None of this made the movie bad, but I just felt it made the film far worse than it should have been. That and there is too little Batman and far too many speeches/monologues in movie. The Dark Knight is a far better film but this is a fitting end to the Nolan trilogy.
Now hopefully we can actually get a Batman comic book movie.
there you go. the issue with bruce getting back into gotham was not hard to believe.
Bane made it clear for no on TO LEAVE gotham. and that army and police
had to help to keep them in. but it was said that the wanted to workout a
deal for getting supplies and such into the city. then when the 3
special forces guys came in, it was under the guise of that delivery
truck with food. so it is possible to smuggle yourself into the city.
again, you can realize these things with the clues given. they are not
yelled out to you. apparently, nolan wants his audiences to use their
brains, and think. the nerve, right ? 😉
Why? To me the presented scene was more unrealistic to the characters than the rest of the whole movie, which is literally a comic book movie. They went from “How dare you?!” and Alfred basically abandoning Bruce at his lowest point, to toasting one another with no in between time. WTF to that shit. Sorry, but it was some of the laziest film making I’ve seen in such a high quality film in a while. Don’t get me wrong, I loved this movie, I love the franchise Nolan created, hell I love all of Nolan’s films, but I just don’t like that scene. It just played as…. weird.
How much time was devoted to Modine that didn’t involve another key plot element? Four minutes? He was mostly in scenes with Gordon or Blake when exposition of Bane’s actions was being dispensed.
Nolan’s movies are just like the comics
He’s a brilliant director when he focuses. But his movies have gotten more and more bloated and expansive, so he struggles to hold it all together. Memento was short, efficient, and worked like a finely-tuned machine. While I’ve certainly enjoyed his BIG films, his best work is done with a limited scope.
You forgot the scene where he get’s the suit but remember the scene where he walks across the ice? I’m sorry I have to be the one to tell you but you have a brain tumor.
Wait…they got their opinion wrong? That must be embarrassing for them.
The computer’s programming didn’t allow it to attack it’s own country so it launched an attack against it’s enemies knowing that the retaliation would destroy the people it really wanted to kill.
Robbin VS. The Riddler.
Prob, one of my all time fav movies, i actually like it more than batman…oh and i actually like Begins more than Dark Knight, i love origin stories and i love how in Begins there is a very solid build of tension through the whole movie. How all the different villains and their plans kind of melts together towards the climax of the movie. And i actually love the idea of drugging people through evaporating the water supply ( wait what? ). It kind of walks the line between comic book silliness and the real world. Altough i consider Heath Ledger a God for his Joker performance and I love the visible scars on his face, paying tribute to the The man who laughs, which was the inspiration for the Joker in the first place. I never liked the “i just want to watch the world burn” chaos craving villain. i much prefer villains with one clear goal, like the league of shadows in Begins. Ugh, i just wrote a long comment on the internet. Flame suit on.
I didn’t say the character was pointless, i said the casting of that actor was bad. As far as acting went, his was the worst.
If Modine’s “police commissioner jr.” character wasn’t there, then Bane theoretically wouldn’t have gotten away after the Wall Street heist. Unless I’m remembering incorrectly, he was the one who ordered all the cars after Batman instead of after Bane on his motorcycle.
That scene was actually one of my biggest problems with the movie. There is no way they couldn’t have spared at least a couple of patrol cars to go after the guy who just freaking shot up and held Wall Street hostage. Instead they let him go after his whole “armed assault and murder in the Gotham Stock Exchange.” I still really enjoyed the movie, but damn did the plotting bother me through the whole film.
I’m surprised you didn’t mention Joseph Gordon Levitt. I thought he did a great job. He made (SPOILERS) “I figured out you were Batman by seeing your face” and “I have to save this one bus of children from the atom bomb” surprisingly believable.
Personally my theory is that this scene takes place several months/years after the end of the movie. Alfred, suffering from both dementia and grief decides to take a vacation. He arrives at the restaurant, orders his drink, and suffers a massive stroke. His dying vision, a combination of dementia and grief, is what we see presented in the film. Bruce with Selina is Alfred’s dying hallucination.
Alternatively the entire series is a story being told by Alfred from within a retirement home. Alfred and his good friend Lucius both suffer from Alzheimera and spend their days “recounting” stories of the time they helped The Batman saved Gotham. Sadly this retirement home is located in Miami and there is no such thing as Gotham.
Also Catwoman was wearing the missing pearls with a tracking device (mentioned earlier which alfred knows about) and he would probably find it odd that they would be located so far away.
I feel like you’re missing the biggest plot hole of the Terminator movies. The robots have a time machine. If they send robots to the same time they’ll all arrive at once. And 1 robot is nowhere near as good at killing people than 1000 robots.
Your all Missing the most important part of the review, when they talk about editing Mike Has a Coffee, Then Nothing, Then a Beer! Im the first to notice, what do I win? A Plinket Button?
The framing with the flat screen TV clearly suggests a separation between man and what Mike and Jay have become.
I’m starting to feel like people are confusing the term plot hole with unanswered questions. A plot hole is something that doesn’t make sense. How Batman got into the city is not a plot hole. They just didn’t show you that scene. They could have added 10 minutes to the movie so that you could see him get back to the city but they figured that’s not really important. The same applies to the Alfred scene. His dream was to casually run into Bruce, and that’s what happened. It’s a coincidence whatever there are plenty of coincidences in the world. Remember, just because they didn’t tell you something doesn’t mean it doesn’t make sense, it just means that it wasn’t important or it might come up in another movie . . . or it’s bad writing. I happen to have liked this movie.
I don’t mind the unanswered questions. In fact, they make the movie more interesting. My problem with TDKR is the overabundance of characters. I think they could of gotten rid of a few people (Miranda Tate mostly) to make the plot flow better. The middle of the movie was loaded with too many things going on.
Overall, TDKR is a good movie. I loved the fight between Bane and Batman and the last 30 minutes were epic. Everything in between kind of dragged.
3.5/5 stars for me.
Nolan’s ideas are interesting and his films are full of spectacle but I do agree, his characters lack emotional depth.
I NEEED to see that in it’s entirety!
I don’t think you know what literally means or how to use it in a sentence.
shut up, faggot
I can’t agree with you because you used “butthurt”.
It’s exactly like that part in TDK where the Joker leaves Bruce’s penthouse. We’re not shown it, because it’s not important. Yet plenty of people complained that it was a huge “plothole” when it wasn’t anything of the sort.
As an audience member you were probably assuming that Alfred was going to see Bruce at the restaurant. You assume this because of Alfred’s earlier monolog combined with the revelations that the auto-pilot and bat signal were fixed. I think that, after all that, it would have been enough to just have Alfred stare across the restaurant at something off camera and smile. Actually showing Bruce felt pretty forced. And the way they filmed that scene felt REALLY forced.
Ultimately it was the only scene I disliked. I thought it cheapened the ending.
But in defense of the idea of the scene, it wasn’t the fact that Alfred saw Bruce that bothered me. It was how cheesy the scene was. Alfred was staring at the camera for a few seconds, cocking his head, trying to get a good glimpse of something off camera – which was awkward enough. Then they reverse the camera to show Bruce Wayne sitting RIGHT THERE, looking at the camera and smiling. It was too much.
That said, it was still a great film and the ending was still awesome. I
just thought that this Chris Columbus moment was more than just a
little out of place.
“We have twelve hours until the bomb goes off”
“Oh. Well then I probably shouldn’t have spent that last six hours painting a bat on that bridge over there.”
(not that it matters, still a great scene and great movie)
really great review, guys — best one yet imo
hit all the major points, and i love how mike brought up the possible perception or claim of his hypocrisy. well, it’s true, plot holes are excusable when there’s a kind of cathartic element, as in this film. and the plot holes weren’t even noticeable enough to create a distraction
thanks mike and jay
Here you go: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kWcg3cITkTI
Regardless of what the take on it happened to be, its outright presence one way or the other felt incredibly corny to me.
He wasn’t abandoning him. He was refusing to cooperate with what he saw as Bruce’s ongoing suicide attempt. It was the opposite of abandonment even if you think it was misguided. Bruce ended up seeing his point, since he gave up the mask and went off to nail Catwoman in France instead.
That didn’t even cross my mind as a plot hole. The plot hole was more how only 3 special forces guys made it across in 5 months. But that goes towards the whole ‘everyone but the villain and batman would drown in the rain’ problem with the universe.
You remembered correctly. Modine’s says something along the lines of, “I’d rather catch the guy who killed Harvey Dent than some robber.” He is obviously trying to make a name for himself, and he makes the decision to go after Batman cause that would have guaranteed his spot as commissioner since we already know that is his primary goal considering he talks earlier on about how Jim Gordon is a “war hero, but Gotham is peaceful now.”
I have nothing against any supposed plot holes or contrivances in the movie. Bruce Wayne suddenly shows up inside the city at the end, nevermind the fact that he just escaped from a prison hole on the other side of the planet a few days ago and has little financial resources anymore. Doesn’t bother me, I can work with that. What bugs me are the big picture problems, not the small stuff.
The movie feels like 2 movies chopped up and shoved into a 3 hour runtime. The movie suffers from writing and editing 101 problems. It is competently shot and directed. But it has problems all over the place and it is simply not as good as the last movie. The biggest problem though is definitely the rushed chop-suey pace to the movie. It’s very long and tries to cram in too much even with a long runtime.
The movie needed a very critical editor and story rewrite. Reduce the length by 15mins and remove at least one major plot or story thread. Let the movie breathe more. And for FFS get rid of that cheesy plot twist at the end with the chick and Bane, it’s not believable if you reflect on character actions/motivations up to that point, it feels like an unnecessary cheat on the audience.
My beef with the movie:
1) Bane was dispensed with rather summarily. While I appreciated the twist, Bane ending up being just the accomplice of the whole thing was a bit disappointing.
2) there were quite a few plot lines that were unnecessary; the police wanker who was a total coward, but then Batman inspired him to be brave, and then he dies valiantly. Sigh. Most annoying character ever, and in a three hour movie you can’t wank around with an idea that could have been done any numbers of ways that took less time and less sank. What was the point of the special forces guys?
3) There are four classes of people in the Batman movies.
1) Civilians. These people are not only helpless cowards, they are too stupid and/or lazy to actually help.
2) Cops. When they aren’t corrupt and/or cowards, they are still dumb as hell. Obvious trap is obvious, but they always fall for it.
3) Batman. Batman is half smart, but usually ends up falling for all the tricks of the villain and then figures out a way to punch his way out of the situation.
4) The villain, who is a genius. They can operate openly in a city of millions pulling off highly elaborate heists, hiding dozens of barrels of explosives or literally mountains of cash. No one sees the crying hostages and the men in clown masks enter the building; batman needs to turn cell phones into sonar. Just impossibly smart. I suspect their villainy is just the frustration of being the one guy in the whole planet who doesn’t think Chutes and Ladders is a strategy game.
5) Why wouldn’t Raz’s wife just let them throw him in the pit, then, I dunno, show up with a fucking rope so he can climb out? That was the dumbest prison ever. I’m sure it was chock full of symbolic value, but at least put like one guard up top so people can’t just show up with 100 feet of rope and bust out the worst of the worst prisoners in that part of the world.
I can forgive all that, but the latest one was really pushing it. My suspension of disbelief was getting a bit frayed. Good movie, not sure it will stand up as a classic. It was Matrix Revolutionsy to me. Wasn’t upset I paid to see it, will not be adding it to the blu-ray collection.
Definitely agree with you on how Bane was dispensed. This guy was completely indestructible for 98% of the movie, doing nearly superhuman displays of power and strength, and then is killed with one cheesy line of dialogue “I have to disagree with you on the whole guns thing”. So this badass died as part of a punchline. Yay?
I guess it’s movie logic right? Once we discover as the audience that he is not the real badguy, all of his movie powers are instantly stripped away and he wilts like a daisy. It’s so wierd and unrealistic in a supposedly ‘more real’ batman movie.
It’s almost broadcast quality. They should go to HBO. I bet they’d give them free reign to do their show however they want and air it during late night. They air The Ricky Gervais show (podcasts) with animations, this isn’t too far off what with the funny skits they do to bookend each episode. It’d be great!
I like how Mike has a coffee at the beginning of the video that magically turns into a beer by the end. Sneaky intentional plot holes are sneaky.
You guys are losing your critical edge with Half in the Bag. I loved the Avengers movie, I loved the last Batman movie. This film had a lot of problems and needed to be called out for them. Why are you giving it such a pass?
Yeah. Considering he’s fucking Batman it’s no stretch of the imagination that he could figure out your surrogate parent’s daily habits.
It’s a testament to the fact that haters will search for any detail to hate.
I thought The Dark Knight Rises was the best film of the trilogy, because it finishes the story the other two films had set up.
These films aren’t just about Batman and Bruce Wayne, but about the story of a city learning to take control of their destiny against those who are very motivated to do it harm. Bruce was seeking to change the culture of Gotham City, the very culture that not only allowed a thug like Joe Chill to kill his parents, but allowed a guy like Falconi to run the city with money and force.
People, in real life, are told not to do anything in the face of evil, for a variety of reasons. You see someone get hit by a car, and the car doesn’t stop, you dial 9-1-1, ordinarily, but do you actually get out there to help the guy? Maybe hold his hand? Maybe even get him off the street? Who knows how long an ambulance will come?
No, we’re taught, instilled in us, not to do much of anything. There was just this very incident that took place not long ago in Hartford, Connecticut, where an old man was the victim of a hit-and-run, and for several minutes nobody did anything. Not even to call the authorities. This was caught on camera. You see, we’re told not to do much because we’re not qualified. We might do more harm than good. We might even get hurt. We could get killed.
But that’s how evil is spread. The more you tolerate, the more you allow, the more the evil continues.
The Nolan Batman Trilogy is about one man trying to inspire a city to change.
A free society requires impeccable character from its citizens, the utmost responsibility from the majority of them. If citizens yield their responsibilities, they become victims of whatever life will throw at them. Bruce Wayne even fell for that.
The Dark Knight Rises has slight and small problems, all of which I overlook because the story was great. The symbolism was neatly tied to the plot (blowing all the bridges, forcing the outside world to keep Gotham’s citizens in to deal with their problem themselves), and it also addressed the fundamental issue that Gotham cannot always have a Batman to protect them.
My only real problem with the Joker. I realize adding anyone who resembled Heath Ledger would’ve been tacky, but they needed to at least tell us what happened to this guy.
Oh my god, Plinkett got rid of his little rug!
I’m not a nolan hater, I think he’s alright. That being said, he and his brother should not be writing scripts. None of these characters felt like real people to me. Catwoman was the worst, because she was written as “hot lady” instead of as a female character. I’m not a feminist, it just seemed like she was just a collection of stereotypes all mashed together. Anne hathaway was fantastic, but she didn’t have much to work with.
I think with Nolan it’s his smaller films that are the best. I think like 95% of big budget directors he tries to go too big and ends up sacrificing complete clarity for a bigger epic. The problem is that his fans treat him like a fucking god because at the very least his big budget movies have some semblance of intelligence and thought put into them which is so rare.
Nolan is a great storytelling when he’s reeled in a little. Memento and Prestige both are fantastic stories because they are on a small scale. So please Mike and Jay watch The Prestige. It’s a damn fine film.
And how did Jay’s shirt make it back to Gotham after all the bridges got blown up?
Because at the end of the day: Batman and The Avengers are enjoyable where as things like Star Wars prequels and TNG movies are not. Besides, Half in the Bag has never been about picking movies apart (like Plinkett reviews), but rather give a broad review of movies while suggesting the ones they found enjoyable.
“Isn’t it about time they end this show?”
NO. DO NOT EVEN JOKE ABOUT THAT.
You guys missed the most obvious plot hole: How does Bain eat? They establish that he can’t live without the mask in the final fight. A big guy would need thousands of calories a day to stay that big.
Yeah, how the fuck DOES he eat? Maybe there’s some gas chamber he goes into that gets flooded with the gas so he can eat and breathe at the same time.
People like you demanding unnecessary explanations for things are why we have that Midichlorian bullshit in the prequels.
I was really hoping they’d just destroy that shiny new TV
Am I the only person that thinks maybe Batman was killed? Considering he was 20-50 ft away from a 4 megaton nuclear blast..And maybe the scene of Alfred in Florence at the end was just Alfred fantasizing that he saw Bruce and Selina because that fantasy would give him some happiness and closure. Like now that Bruce is dead, he’s finally free from his burden of protecting Gotham and can rest in peace..by figuratively enjoying a coffee with Selina Kyle.
And personally I think the film should have ended with Alfred smiling at something, and then cut to black before it is revealed whom is sitting at the table.
Alright I’ll grant you all that. I guess I do expect sharper criticism when coming here.
Oh bull. I don’t really care either way, I was just wondering.
And Lucas pulled the Midichlorians out of his ass because he’s a shitty writer and director, not because there was some huge demand from fans to know exactly how the force works.
I think Jay, specifically, is not critical enough. Although he is likeable =)
They establish it would be “extremely painful”, not that it would kill him.
He could do injections?
I feel like Mike’s big “But” speech is a response to my calling shenanigans on his giving Prometheus a pass when Trek and Wars movies get Plinkett’s microscopic overhaul (I’m sure I’m not the only one). And I think it is a fairly good response.
While I did raise an eyebrow in the theater at things like the U.S. Government ceding what amounts to New York City to a supervillain just because he’s got a fusion bomb, I could chuckle at it because it’s a Batman movie. Sort of like how I think that two hundred cops that can’t escape a sewer in three months time probably won’t be too useful against a well-fed and well-armed insurgency. Eh, it’s a Batman movie. The story is more important. When my girlfriend asked how Brucie could possibly have gotten out of his Batplane safely before the bomb went off, the answer is “Batman”. It’s like a meme that’s older and more effective than Chuck Norris. Batman is so awesome that his name is useful as an adjective for other people doing amazingly awesome things. I don’t need to have screen time spent sneaking back into Gotham to know that he’s capable of it. Hijacking a city bus to save your friend’s pinky toe, for example, is a “Batman” thing to do. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rkpvON6IpNs
That said, I question the extent that the Batman series gets a free pass on technical details, as SO MUCH of the first was spent trying to justify and give an origin to every little detail of how a Batman comes to be. The film opens up by providing justification for his ability to fight ten guys at once. Most of the first hour of the film is spent on painstaking details like where he gets his cape and cowl, his Batmobile, his baterangs, how he knows ninja tricks, how he first discovers his Batcave. Not saying that that shit wasn’t completely awesome or that it wasn’t presented in an entertaining way, but it sets a tone for the series that makes me less inclined to hand wave details when we get to later installments.
But then again, another way to look at it is that the first movie was spent setting that stuff up and justifying this character, both emotionally and logistically, so that later installments can focus more on story. When Bane holds the city hostage, my first reaction was that it was something surreal, like out of a far-out comic book. Doesn’t mean the comic book isn’t good.
My problems with the film (which I did think was very good) are story related. Two things specifically really irked me. The first is that after setting up the second most awesome Batman villain to be put on film for over two hours, we’re given a bait-and-switch deep in the third act when it’s revealed that Bane isn’t really the for-real villain of the movie. He then hands his balls to a girl (totally called her identity as soon as she and Bruce humped, btw; I just didn’t think she’d be the mastermind boss) and is instantly reduced to a mere minion. His grandiose Genghis Khan dialogue suddenly becomes “You’ll just have to imagine the heat” which is something a two-bit thug would say in, like, a big dumb 80’s action flick (think Commando). And then he’s blown away by Catwoman, without even a glorious death! Also, why didn’t Batman just rip his face hoses off in their first fight? But here I am, harping on details again. My point is that this movie builds up to a final confrontation between Bane and Bats for a LONG time, and then that confrontation is two minutes of punching, followed by the introduction of a new villain (the REAL villain) and Bane getting swept under a rug as part of the emphasis of the dramatic turn of a minor character. A character that’s been much less important to the story than Bane was, up until now.
That brings me to my other problem: Catwoman. What was the point of her, exactly? Sure, Anne Hathaway did fine, and no, they didn’t make her over-the-top, licking her paws and saying “Meow” and crap, but seriously, what was her role in the story? She was a love interest for Bruce and she had the most obvious Han Solo “I changed my mind” turn that I can think of. Also, why did Bruce trust her upon returning to Gotham? Last time they met, she was turning him in to Bane. There seemed to be no consequence for that decision (I realize the city went to hell and she felt bad, I mean that Batman didn’t seem interested in holding her accountable).
So to sum up, she was there to have a completely forced heart-of-gold face turn and to be a weak replacement for Rachel that is really only inferred in subtext until the very end. Also, tits. Black Widow, to name a recent example, seemed to have a lot more going for her and much more of an arc and some characterization, and she was in a ginormous spectacle with not one, but five other attention grabbing superheroes with their own arcs (and that’s excluding Samuel L. Jackson and villains). How is it that the “goofy” summer spectacle with the alien invasion and the Galaga reference has a much more well-rounded and fully realized woman, and the dark, brooding, “serious” film that has aspirations of reflecting the political atmosphere reduces it’s heroine to eye candy so much of the time?* In high heels, no less! For shame, Nolan…
*A: Joss Whedon.
He holds his breath while switching to a different mask that fits snugly over his nose. One that he doesn’t wear any other time because it’s not combat ready. Then he eats with his mouth.
Either that or he takes a giant syringe full of bananas and protein powder and injects it directly into his stomach. Possibly through his anus. Necessary vitamins and minerals are administered through injection.
You punks think you know everything. You can’t even make your reviews rhyme like all my scenes do.
Tell that to Adam Sandler.
I only had 2 real problems with the film.
1 – Bane’s sadistic point is to show the world how Gotham will tear itself apart in the interim before the bomb kills everyone. However, I never really saw the people turning on each other. The criminals Bane broke out of jail holding mock courts and executing the wealthy, yes. But normal people being degraded, not really.
2 – Marion Cotillard’s character was far too inconsequential for me and while I recognize the director wanted her in his movie for old times sake or whatever in the end her part should have ended up on the cutting room floor. Had Bane turned out to have the lineage we are originally led to believe the end result would have been so similar as to be of no real difference.
Otherwise I bloody loved this thing.
About the SPOILERS!!! Alfred seeing Bruce in wherever… the reason why Bruce knew where Alfred was, and knew where to face, is cos Alfred told him the name of the country and the cafe beforehand, and said he came to that place at roughly the same time each day. Bruce, being ex-Batman and all, simply tracked to what time Al shows up, and went to meet him there, to show him that they both made it out alright.
BTW thanks guys for getting this Half in the Bag out so quickly. I hadn’t expected TDKR from y’all until next week, and I appreciate it.
Why would Bruce even need to know the name of the cafe or country? He could use his Batman powers to simply track the man’s movements, and when his recon report came back showing him haunting a particular cafe, he shows up there.
If the story is good enough, you fill in the blanks yourself.
Well, there you go, Mike and Jay liked The Dark Knight. Will you stupid dumb assholes quit asking Plinkett to review it now?
Exactly. See, both of us just came up with completely different explanation for it, both of which are equally valid. Point being: while this movie does have problems (I would dearly love to cut out Miranda entirely), that particular point of argument is not one of them.
Actually, they established in the very first scene of the movie that Bane CAN live without his mask; just that “it would be very painful…” I guess it’s just excruciating when he needs to eat.
I want to see E.T.’s end without music.
Also, remember that those special forces guys seemed to have gotten into gotham okay, which seems to establish the precedent that most of the security is preventing people from getting out, rather than in. It still would have been nice if they had spent 30 seconds explaining exactly how Bruce did it though.
I’m willing to buy how he traveled from the pit TO gotham, because he was travelling around in Begins without money or connections just fine, and it makes sense that he could stow away on a cargo plane/shit, but how he got IN was a bit of a mystery.
Good joke, internet tough guy.
This feeds to the argument that these movies are more about the spectacle than cherrypicking nitpicks and plot holes. I never event thought about how much time it took him to create that flaming bat, but damn was it a cool moment to see a flaming batsignal above the bridge when the original batsignal had been broken so many years ago. But Jay’s right; Nolan’s a horrible director and a hack.
I personally had no problem with MC being revealed as Talia. I actually called that one after she and Brucie humped on the floor or whatever. (I’m not a genius; a new love interest with a foreign accent that Batman beds, in a series where Ra’s Al Ghul is the original villain AND in a movie where the League of Shadows has already resurfaced was too many red flags).
What I had a problem with was the fact that she turned out to be the “for-real-villain”, the boss, the mastermind. Suddenly the villain that I’d been watching splendidly develop for over two hours became a minion, with appropriately two-bit minion dialogue. “You’ll have to imagine the fire” – not a terrible bit of dialogue, but certainly not befitting the awesome Genghis Khan that successfully conquered Gotham. He’s then dispatched unceremoniously as part of a PAINFULLY obvious Han Solo turn by a minor character. Minor compared to Bane, at least, who had been the primary antagonist since the spectacular airplane hijack that opened the film.
PLUS i think Alfred said he went there every day. So even at least, maybe Bruce went to like 12 other restaurants every day previously before he picked the right one and saw alfred. NOLANS A HACK
BUT DID THE TOP FALL OR NOT
Anyone else notice that the climax amounted to “Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb”?
Keep it going, guys. I’ve long ago disabled my adblocker just for you lot.
In that case, can I interest you in some Penis-biggening products?
Um, excuse me, um…why does Mike, enter Plinkett’s house with a beer, but during the first half of the review, he’s using one of those venti cup things, but then in the second half of the review, he has a beer, and the venti cup disappears. I feel like I’m watching Unicron’s face.
After Bruce Wayne escaped the prison, and returned to Gotham, he shouldn’t have had any access to his equipment, and should have relied solely on his brain and raw abilities. Bane wiped out Bruce’s money, pillaged his entire armory, then locked him up. Bruce was reduced to nothing. Bruce escapes the prison without any of his toys, but just on his own strength and willpower alone. So then when he returns to Gotham, & defeats the bad guys not with his will or smarts, but with his toys that he had hidden underneath his giant mansion that Bane already knew about? He didn’t employ some ingenious clever bat/stealth like moves to save the city, but used his huge bat plane thing? Whatever attempt the movie makes at developing a story arc (like the title of the movie suggests) was destroyed. It’d be like if Daniel LaRusso pulled out a gun and shot the Cobra Kai blond guy in the face at the end of the Karate Kid. “Wait, what about the training and crane kick thing?” Oh….
people dislike nolan movies for reasons other than plot holes.
Nah, it’s nothing like that. Batman using Bat-equipment to defeat the bad guy isn’t stuff that comes out of left field. He doesn’t return to the mansion; we see him go to his construction hideout with Lucius for his armor/gear, and then on to where he stashed the Bat plane on top of a building. The cycle was hidden in a… thing in the city.
He uses Bat-Stealth to take out the guards on the ice. Then he uses his plane to free the cops and make an assault on Bane. And the entire reason the plane is in the movie is to get the fusion bomb out of town in the end.
All stuff that had been set up earlier in the movie, or in the case of the city hideout, in a prior film. Not the same as your straw man LaRusso gungslinger argument, unless it was in a crazy director’s cut where Daniel-san spends a scene or two shooting cutouts of the Cobra Kai with real bullets and a grim look on his face midway through the movie.
It sounds like what you want is a film where it isn’t Batman that defeats Bane, but a Bat-Free and poor Bruce Wayne, who is nevertheless good at fighting and back in shape. Yes, he had to escape the prison through strength (more strength of will than physical strength, as the doc points out). There is indeed a sense of stripping away excess to get to the core man, but an underlying theme of these films is that that core is then built upon using his considerable resources. Much of the first hour+ of Batman Begins was devoted to this, and it was explored a little bit in the Dark Knight (his heavy, overgadgeted suit is traded in for one more agile but more vulnerable, his Black Tank traded in for a mercurial cycle). He has assets for Act 3 of DKR, and they include a plane, cycle, batsuit, and some clever (Lucius), brave (Gordon), and sexy (Selina) friends. He uses all of them – anything less would be foolish.
OK. I must just be confusing that scene with the 1st time Bruce gets back into the suit. I remember the rooftop scene, & Bruce seeing the suit a 2nd time, its still in the metal/perspex holder-thing, just did not realise it happened just before the ice-walking scene.
Ok, just for fun.. Why does Batman confront Bane a 2nd time in the big cop/merc battle? Batman is in the Bat at the start to inspire the cops, fair enough, but then lands somewhere and just wades into a fistfight. (Would he have been more useful in the air, shooting tanks and snipers?) He is trying to rescue female-baddie-super-plot-device-lady-Neesons-daughter, so he punches Bane to the floor, then has the chance to escape with her, but stays to interrogate Bane about the where-abouts of the bomb even though the commissioner is working on that. How would Bane know where the bomb is at that point and would he really tell Batman if he did? Would two martial-arts experts really fight like that? Would post-spinal-injury Batman really have defeated Bane, who absolutely crushed him when Batman was much fitter and stronger? I guess they had a similar interrogation scene in the first two films, and needed one in this one too. It felt unnecessary here though.
(Would have better if batman had to outsmart Bane to defeat him, since he tried route 1 earlier, and was almost killed. Batman was much stronger than the Scarecrow and Joker and could defeat them physically once he got past there tricks/goons. Bane is way too big and Batman is in too poor condition physically to challenge him. Would have been more interesting for him to use his brain, but he just wades in with the haymakers again!)
Again, it doesn’t really matter, just having a bit of fun..
That’s a good assumption. It would have been good for the movie to show something of it.
I will, however, agree that we don’t see nearly enough of Batman using his smarts in the films. He’s supposed to be a Detective as well as a superhero; we’ve never really seen that side of him on (non-animated) film. About the closest we come is magical CSI stuff from his super-rich crime lab. The ridiculous magical bullet fingerprint extractor, for example. Or Michael Keaton cracking the joker’s poison code, which we’re not allowed to actually see. Bale does some interesting recon/stakeout/disguise work in the first film, but what wouldn’t you give to see a Batman film that had an honest-to-God Murder Mystery in it?
This is something that isn’t explored enough in the comics, either, I might add. Bruce Timm Batman is about the most detective-oriented take I’ve seen so far. Timm wasn’t afraid to throw in some noir-flavored episodes that didn’t have any proper supervillains, or at least some where supervillains made an appearance but weren’t the focus (I’m thinking of Matt Frewer’s wonderful portrayal of “Sid the Squid”, for one).
Because you ripped that scene from Good Will Hunting. That’s why you shouldn’t be a screen writer.
Why no mention that Bane was played by Patrick Stewart?
There’s nothing inherently wrong with using the bat-plane or gadgets… it’s just that he “didn’t require any discipline to attain it.” It’s a bit too much of a loaded Chekhov’s gun to say “Well, they set up the secret Batman stash thing quick-like in 2nd movie.” If Batman had employed cunning stealth (like the shipping container scene in “…Begins”) to re-acquire the Batmobile and some of his toys back, then I would’ve had no problem with him using those same gadgets to save the day.
Do you guys think you could post a lower resolution version of this video? My old and awful netbook cannot play this without slowdown. Thanks!
My hair is getting pulled out they specifically say it is in West Africa, not Arabia.
Fill those ”plot holes” with you damn imaginations!
We don’t have to have see him taking a leak while wearing the suit. We don’t have to see him taking a break for lunch. We assume what happens that does not have to be shown because it is not necessary for the telling of the story! The point is it happens. If it were needed, or interesting, they would’ve shown it.
No one pointed out the plot hole that Mike and Jay never talked about going to see a new movie, they clearly had just escaped from the comic book store and went o plinkett’s house and started talking about batman without ever seeing it in a theater or the television
It ain’t no big budgeted Hollywood Wes Anderson blockbuster, but this Chris Nolan North, or whatever pretentious fucking hipster name these indie d-bags have, gave us a pretty charming gem of a summer flick. Hope to see more of these Black Knight movies soon . . .
Didn’t Alfred tell him about that cafe?
So that kinda makes it obvious that Bruce would follow him
I thought the biggest problem with the story was its initial premise: that Batman’s been retired for eight years. Surely, the events of TDK would’ve motivated him, not discouraged him. In fact, I thought they would’ve validated why he is The Batman. But instead, for eight years he sulks and limps around his mansion, (and in this scenario, you would’ve thought that Alfred would’ve revealed the truth about Rachel’s letter much earlier). And then he’s Batman again — ignore the eight years of total inactivity which would’ve caused his instincts, skills, and muscles to atrophy.
Well, the thing is, he’s not looking for the bomb– he’s looking for the REMOTE DETONATOR that Bane supposedly gave to an anonymous civilian that can blow the bomb at any time (he mentioned that he did this during the stadium scene). But Batman thinks BANE has the detonator, so he goes in to stall him with a face-to-face confrontation; if it was just an army of cops tearing through his forces with Batman in the air, Bane could theoretically rush over to wherever he’s keeping the detonator and just kill everybody.
Besides– c’mon. How could Batman NOT go up against Bane in the finale? Logical or not, there had to be a final showdown!
But by the by, Batman was supposed to be MORE fit when he faces Bane at the end, because he’s been spending the last five months exercising like crazy and building himself up to beat the man. The idea was that Batman had gotten weak with inactivity over the past eight years, and his complacency and overconfidence is what got him his ass handed to him– it’s kinda like Rocky III, actually. Sure, he spent some of that time recovering from a massive spinal injury, but it’s the movies, man– EVERYTHING happens in a compressed timeline.
It’s one of those “just-go-with-it” things, I guess.
I just assumed “He’s Bruce Wayne, he’s insanely rich, he can do anything.”
But I think the reason people are picking on the plot holes more here is that it’s trying to present itself as a “hyper-realistic” sort of superhero movie, and when there’s a plot hole in something like that, people tend to notice them more.
They won tickets and Jay went in drag, pay attention.
His skills and muscles did atrophy. That’s partly why Bane broke him.
Besides the start, are these half in the bag videos scripted? Seriously seems as if you guys just set up a camera, sat down and talked about the movie.
I don’t even care if you review a movie, I’m watching for the back ground story. Incidently, which episode has the scene of you holding the returned used colostomy bag?
Laughed out loud during 15:41 – 16:01.
Did anyone else notice the cave/jail that Bruce is in, every time they had a camera angle that showed the exit of the cave, the walls of the cave were full of hand ledges that stretched high enough for you to just simply climb out. This REALLY bugged me.
I’m surprised they didn’t discuss the Aurora shootings (maybe this was recorded before). Not about gun violence or anything, but about how violent media impact unstable personalities. And maybe more towards their expertise, how we view movie as an escapist safe haven…the thought of ACTUAL violence crossing over with fantasy violence is tough to fully comprehend when in that moment…just a thought…
Mike, Jay… um, I was wondering about something with regards to Chris Nolan’s endings. Now, I’ve noticed with his recent movies that he really likes to have multiple sequences happening simultaneously at the end while intercutting between them. He does this in BB, TDK with the ferries, Inception obviously, and also now in TDKR.
Now, you’ve called this the “Ending Multiplication Effect” in your Episode 1 review. I was just wondering if you’re more tolerant of it in Nolan’s movies or if it’s just as bad and you dislike him doing it? Personally, I don’t have a problem with it because Nolan always manages to pull it off successfully.
Some days you just can’t get rid of a bomb!
For the real ‘visceral spectacle’ check @ 4:50 ~ where Mike ‘goes Bundy’, relaxing to let the swill-belly spill forward. Then be amazed as within a few seconds Jay in competitive jealousy raises a leg to flash a ball-nut and something like knotted gut from those revealing pantaloons!
What hidden meaning can we derive from this unsubtle exposition … ?
Does every conversation anyone has now about TDKR have to be prefaced with a conversation about the crazy asshole that shot up a theater?
That’s exactly how I described my feelings of this movie- It’s the Matrix Revolutions of the Batman Trilogy.
There’s over 300 comments on this video, and over 1,000 on their Prometheus video and you really think that Mike’s comments in this episode are a direct reply to YOU?
Also, I stopped reading after that statement. This is a comments section, not your own personal blog.
I didn’t say prefaced, but I think it’s at least worth a mention. And again, it’s not about the crazy asshole who shot up the theater, but the interaction of movies, media, and crazy assholes. And also what movies mean to us as an escape from crazy asshole.
Batman coming back despite the city being locked down is not a plot hole everyone whos familiar with the comic books knows that he has multiple ways to get in and out of the city.
If you wanna be nitpicky and say well IN THE MOVIE its not explained therefore bla bla well.
Batman begins show that he is a ninja “disapearing “at will mid conversation. its not hard to see he could get past a barricade unseen.
TDK shows that he has secret passages in the city and in his penthouse. its not a big stretch to imagine he has others.
also how did he get inside the bank safe in TDK without the dozens of cops seeing him. anyway point is hes a ninja with extensive knowledge of his city.
Yeah I can’t imagine why they wouldn’t bring that up in their discussion of a movie.
LIked it very much but one glaring problem I had was that it is established early on that Bruce Wayne is crippled due to no cartilage in his knees…so how did he escape the prison without these devices? also how does a child manage to climb out when a grown man couldn’t reach it? Little details hurt this movie a lot!
I’ve got to say, I was worried Mike and Jay were going to lambaste this movie with hate, but I’m glad they enjoyed it and that they did in the same way I had.
A very even handed and well thought out review. I agree for the most part. I still think your review of Amazing Spider-Man was a little unbalanced in some places, but well done here.
Surprisingly you guys continue to be completely inconsistent in how you judge/evaluate movies.
It really isn’t fair to take shots at The Amazing Spiderman for its villain’s cartoony motivation, when it isn’t going for uber realism like the Nolan films. Sure it’s a grittier take on the Spiderman character, but that doesn’t marry it to a Nolan esq universe where comic-book elements have to have some basis in reality.
Anyway they Nolan films aren’t as practical as people might think. On the surface they appear pragmatic when in actuality they’re littered with contradictory fantastical elements and logic gaffs. There’s a giant microwave emitter in the first film that should have killed everyone, and in this film you have a nuclear device which even though it was 6 miles away from Gotham during detonation it would have via fall-out had a devastating affect on the city. I don’t buy the poetic excuse(George Lucas anyone?) or that the film isn’t meant to be taken literally, because there’s no movie evidence to support that claim. It’s a very straight-forward film that is trying to be as practical with the Batman mythos as possible, so your excuse for the logic fallacies hold absolutely no water.
Also get someone on your team that disagrees with you guys from time to time. Friction is a lot more fun in movie criticism than uniformity.
The Prequels were also about spectacle, but let’s be sure to pick their logic gaffs apart. Once again, you guys are awful and inconsistent.
Hi there, I’m the point. You totally fucking missed me.
The Prequels were ABOUT the mechanics of the story. Dark Knight Rises is about themes and isn’t meant to be 100% literal.
Also, if you find these guys awful and inconsistent, why do you bother watching them? Oh right, so you have something to bitch about.
at this point in the movie bruce wayne is broke all his money was taken from him all he had left was his mansion.
The prequels were also shot in a completely flat, artless way with bad dialogue, bad performances, and horribly rudimentary and linear editing. If you can’t see the difference between a George Lucas-directed film and a Christopher Nolan-directed film, it’s time to hang your hat on watching movies.
Or Comedy Central?
The end scene with Alfred is not a plot hole. In the earlier scene when he explains about his yearly holiday Alfred mention’s where he goes on holidays. And if Bruce Wayne can fake his death and create new identity’s for himself and Selina Kylen. Also taking in to fact he’s the world’s greatest detective. Is it really that hard to find out where and when Alfred goes on holidays and arrange to be in the same restaurant/coffee shop.
Wow guys; there’s a lot of negativity and it’s kind of off-putting. It’s fine to criticize, but not in such a directly hateful way. Anyway, I enjoyed this review and they’re very fair imo :).
Nolan should never have killed off Harvey Dent/Twoface he would have been a much better villain than Bane. The scene with Scarecrow as judge and jury would have been perfect for Twoface heads they walk damaged heads they die.
Do you need some sort of disclaimer before a movie starts letting you know that it’s not meant to be taken literally? I don’t need that because I have this thing called a brain helps me process and understand ideas.
Dont get shot seeing the Dark Knight!
Please don’t end Half in the Bag. It’s SO nice to see people who actually know about film TLAK about film. I went into work and had to deal with my stupid co-worker’s “plot hole” complaints. I tried to explain about the emotional core and how these “plot holes” are forgivable, but they wouldn’t listen. Yet, they all loved Spider-Man -____- It’s nice knowing there are people like me out there, so keep it up 🙂
Half in the bag must NOT end. We all love your work
Great point about the music
Who noticed that during the first Batman vs Bane fight that there was no music playing in the background? Great touch that made that scene more brutal.
TOM LENNON WAS ALSO SAMMY JENKINS’ DOCTOR IN MEMENTO. WUT.
I liked it when Batman punched the Bane man.
Tut tut. Yet another Half in the Bag review without a single mention of yours truly.
What about the film gave you any indication that it wasn’t meant to be taken literally? Was David Lynch a guest director?
That was hilarious.
I bother watching because they have such a large following, and it boggles my mind what attracts people to these reviews so much when they offer nothing resembling insight or consistency.
You don’t think Star Wars is about visuals and themes? Star Wars is all about poetry. It rhymes, remember?
I’m going to start using this bull shit “It isn’t meant to be literal” line to explain away all the plotholes in films I adore too.
No, none of that is true. The visuals of the prequels are far more striking than anything in Nolan’s Batman films. Nolan really isn’t that impressive of a visual director. The only reason he receives in praise is because he uses practical special effects, otherwise his films are visually boring. And don’t even get me started on the editing in Nolan films which rarely have any stylistic flair to them. Also as the guys pointed out how do you miss something as rudimentally simple as what time of day it is supposed to be? The editing is sloppy and is to blame for the horrible pacing of the film.
The only difference I can see is that Nolan is in vogue, but once his time has passed his films will be exposed for the hollow, emotionless, stylistically vacant films they are.
“The visuals of the prequels are far more striking than anything in Nolan’s Batman films.”
Bwahahahaha! Thanks for that. Funniest thing I’ve heard all day.
“I bother watching because they have such a large following, and it
boggles my mind what attracts people to these reviews so much when they
offer nothing resembling insight or consistency.”
So…you watch them so you can bitch about them. Got it. What a wonderfully productive way to spend your time.
Feeding tubes and IV drips.
I’m fine with Modine’s character all the way up until he puts on his uniform and dies in the goofiest way possible. Up until then he was just a side character, but once they showed his poorly choreographed death, it made it seem as if we were supposed to care about his arc, when I don’t think anyone did.
Yeah, it wasn’t just luck. He probably wasted a whole day to create that little nod moment.
He wasn’t interrogating Bane to find the location of the bomb, he was trying to find out where the trigger device was because he knew Bane wouldn’t trust it to an ordinary citizen.
Half in the Bag’s time has come. Like Constantinople or Rome before it the video series has become a breeding ground for suffering and injustice. It is beyond saving and must be allowed to die. This is the most important function of the League of Shadows. It is one we’ve performed for centuries. Half in the Bag… must be destroyed.
Why does Bane give the heroes 5 months to foil his plans like some extreme Bond villain? Was the reason of giving “hope” to the city worth it?
The bat signal bugged me also. When did he find the time to do that?
When you go with such a “realistic tone” for a superhero movie. Plot-holes and quick fixes really stand out.
They’re not being overly critical because they liked the movie. See how that works?
Will you please please keep your foot still next time? It draws all the attention and is sooo distracting. Thank you.
To be fair, in the situation where it seems to go from day to night in 3 minutes, Bane’s henchman says they have 8 minutes left to download, and then the police take out the cell tower they’re using to download. It’s then states it will take longer. Bane then starts the chase, still daytime, and then it switches to nighttime. My only conclusion is they were being chased long enough for it to go from day to night
While I agree that the editing and shooting in Batman Begins is subpar compared to the sequels, I don’t think you used the best example. I thought the scene you used intentionally was shot in a chaotic, shaky-cam manner because we’re supposed to share the experience of Batman as this unseen and disorienting force, just like the guys he’s kicking the shit out of feel. I always thought it was shot in that manner to make him seem like a nightmare creature, an urban legend.
Whereas the train sequence in Begins is a good example of shoddy action.
Just my two cents.
I still feel like it would have been much better without the shaky cam going on.
Lol, been trying to figure who was actually Plinkett. Thanks for clearing that up
Actually, there is a very good reason Nolan went with the bomb idea I think. Bane (and the League of Shadows which he considers himself still a part of), consider themselves to be the fire that must burn Gotham from the face of the Earth. Also, Gotham itself has become a bit of a ticking time bomb. Also, the bomb helps create urgency, which is much needed here.
Ok, maybe I do have a brain tumor, I didn’t realise thats what Batman was asking Bane, I was too busy rolling my eyes and laughing to myself. The idea of Batman interrogating Bane in his gravelly voice hoping for the totally incomprehensible Bane to answer was just too much for me at that point. (I was ill at the time of viewing, and dehydrated/light-headed, so that is my excuse)
Of course there had to be a show-down at the end, but it was very unsatisfying. The two basically just belt each other in the face again, except Banes mask gets damaged, he goes into a rage and Batman is able to beat his ass. Then betrayal, stabbing-in-the-back, big reveal… and then CatWoman shoots Bane with the bike-cannon and saves Batman. (Was that good for you? Thought is was bad myself.) Then Bane is never heard from again and Batman just goes off with CatWoman to catch up with the bomb. In the meantime, the commissioner has caught up with the bomb and used the doohickey ™ to stop and remote signal anyway. So there was some tension, but it just fizzles away, and all the characters just slip away to the next scene, except Bane of course who just chillaxes on the ground.
And how is Bruce stronger after doing sit-up for a few months? Some asshole punched one of his vertebrae back into place! Even if that happened on day one, and you had the full 5 months to recover/retrain, you are not going to be stronger than you were pre-spinal, no matter how many sit-ups you can do. Maybe it was Bane who got lazy and complacent in the meantime, and he was weaker rather than Batman being stronger? Just would have been cool if Batman had to use his gadgets or his brain to defeat Bane in the showdown, since Bane obviously outclassed him physically, thats all. I thought the 2nd punch-a-thon was boring. But the film was way too long at 2.5 hours & really dragging on at that point, so I guess a quick fistfight was best.
Ok, last one. I promise. Where was the Joker during all of this? Was he not locked up in the prison like the scarecrow? I guess it would have been tough to have him and Bane loose, might be a clash of leadership… Why have Robin save the kids on that bus, but have the very injured Commissioner hanging off moving vehicles and swinging around the place and everything tracking the bomb. Would they have been better swapped around? How did Batman survive the blast at the end? And why? That was one the points of the film that I really liked (ultimate sacrifice and all that), and I thought it would have been brave to end it like that. And have the guy who turns out to be Robin be the next Batman instead. Instead, based on the date of a firmware update, we find out Bruce is alive, and in a throw-away scene that the young cop is Robin.. COME ON! That IS lame, don’t care what you say!
“I thought it fucking ruled”
What was it about it that ruled? The meandering, out-of-control plot, the long, tedious dialog scenes, or the failure to execute SO many of the ideas that the film contained?
I just watched this, it’s three hours of my life I’ll never get back. It’s a rare day I disagree with Jay and Mike, but sweet baby Jesus that film rambled all over the place delivered foreshadowing with a hammer and was so full of stupid little plot holes. I’m doing my own review of this thing, no link I’m not plugging or anything I just don’t want people to think I haven’t thought my opinion through.
actually he rose twice in this film (3 times if you count when he
boinked Talia) – which is another example of this film trying to do too
Unless he has a side job I don’t know about.
With the wrapping up of this trilogy, we have the ushering out of the Geezer Squad Batman movies. Michael Kane, Liam Neesom, Morgan Freeman, and Gary Oldman – and they all had SO much screen time and SO MANY lines of dialog – a cure for insomnia if there ever was one
I very often agree with the reviews these guys dish out. This review was no exception. I thought TDKR delivered on all fronts. I loved Bane’s voice, as flawed as it might have been. HOWEVER, one thing I want to point out: when Mike and Jay talk about plot holes in Nolan’s work, and bring up Alfred’s run-in with Bruce Wayne at the end of TDKR (even though Mike and Jay thought this was a plot hole that could be overlooked), I think they were mistaken to call it a plot hole. When Alfred tells Bruce earlier in the movie about this fantasy of his, Alfred specifically names the cafe that he would visit in hopes of seeing Bruce. So, I do not think it far-fetched that Bruce would regularly visit that same cafe with the intention of spotting a hopeful Alfred.
Where did the hd button go? 🙁
4:12 “Ominous presence”? THE MONOLITH!
That’s unfortunate that you can’t pay attention to more than one sentence said in an over-30-minute-long discussion.
it’s unfortunate that you don’t understand that a movie that has all those flaws cannot “rule”
I’d like to just think he punched his way through Michael Bay style
4:14 Next Plinkett’s gonna be 2001 😉
Superman isn’t human.
“The Prequels were ABOUT the mechanics of the story. Dark Knight Rises is about themes and isn’t meant to be 100% literal.”
They weren’t really about the mechanics – they did attempt to invest more into “the plot” and all those political background events (explained in the novels! :p), but overall, it VERY much was about spectacle and emotion.
Comparably, one can say that TDK (far moreso than Begins) tried to go intellectual and logical by having the police carrying out all those “real world” operations on mobsters, seemingly making it important what exactly happens there on a technical level.
First Contact and Nemesis were pretty spectacular and had their emotional character cores, as well.
I really think it’s as they said: the WORSE the movie is, the more fun it is to eviscerate its logical flaws.
But Plinkett also did that to Star Trek 11, and people love picking apart the OT – so really, I fail to see any inconsistency.
He couldn’t be the hero any more during that time. To secure the narrative that Dent died a hero, batman had to take the blame, and stop doing heroic acts. If he was back on the streets saving lives, people would question the Dent story.
You know a way to judge a movie without seeing it?
“it boggles my mind what attracts people to these reviews so much when they offer nothing resembling insight or consistency.”
Uh, there’s plenty of “insight” in all these reviews, and the “inconsistency” you’ve spotted is a false one – they’ve given a positive review to Star Trek and still eviscerated it logically. At the end of each prequel review, he stressed that all that nitpicking was really a secondary reason for why the films were bad.
But since they sucked, it was more fun sinking the teeth into them – as they say here. Got it? Good.
Uh, Inception was VERY visually striking and had a powerful atmosphere – practical or not.
The Batman films have much better acting and writing than the Prequels, which WERE “visually” more impressive and versatile despite some fakey looking graphics, and obviously you’ve missed that over all the shiny planets and SFX.
You’re not qualified to post here – sod off.
I think that applies to the dialogue scenes, not the visual scenes which were more of an eyecandy than Batman (and SUPPOSED to be that).
But yes, bad performances, the emotional core not as much absent as badly done.
I always thought this, our confusion mirrors the mob bosses. It’s also a good scene as every time I’ve seen it I see something new.
Considering that he later casually walks up to Gordon (and company) from a direction were the ice is clearly broken (in another scene) and the fact that there’s more people on the ice, making it more unstable that theory doesn’t work. Also consider that the bank is going to be watched and the ice is a big blank sheet to stand out on and I just don’t see it working.
I agree, Nolan is trying to present Batman as a viable character in a real world setting, which is a shame. I would never want a return to the 60’s series but tdkr leaves too many plot points dangling about. I get what Mike and Jay are saying, sometimes the style has to come first eg. I completely get how Bruce Wayne is sitting across from Alfred, it’s feasible and you don’t need an explanation of how Bruce did it. Also we know there are supply trucks that can enter Gotham maybe Bruce dropped from under one of them to get back in. But then there’s things like how did Bane smuggle bikes into the stock exchange? How did Alfred know about Bane’s connection to the league of shadows? And so on.
Well, to each his own, I suppose. As you can probably tell, I loved this movie.
As for the Joker, he was probably being held at a rebuilt Arkham Asylum, which remember, its in the Narrows– a completely separate island from the rest of Gotham City proper. Crane, however, was probably in Blackgate (which WAS on the right island), so that’s why he would be in Gotham but not the Joker.
Also, Gordon wasn’t injured. It had been FIVE MONTHS since the city had been closed off by Bane, and Gordon was already recovered enough back when that first happened to take out two assassins without a problem. By the end, he should have been in good health.
Besides, apparently taking the kids out of the city was Blake’s pet mission– dramatically speaking, since he had a connection to the kids, it only made sense that he should be the one to try to save them. Plus, that arrangement put Gordon in the right place to have a final moment with Batman before he flies off with the bomb. Drama always takes precedent over logic in movies.
And apparently, Batman ejected from the Bat sometime over the water (but well before the bomb went off). I didn’t think that was lame. One of the points of this movie was that Alfred was arguing that Bruce Wayne wanted to die as Batman because he didn’t know how to live as a man– that he’d been locked in a state of arrested development for years. If Batman had died in the end, all he would have done is proven Alfred right, and gone out a stunted, immature (but undeniably noble) human being.
The theme of the movie (for Bruce, anyway) is that its about growing beyond pain, and not letting suffering define you as a person– “rising” above hatred, rage, and revenge, if you will. This movie gave us the ballsiest ending of all: a Bruce Wayne who actually gets to live his life, who actually gets a HAPPY ending, instead of all the bleak, violent ends he’s gotten before. But there’s also an idea there that the symbol of Batman and what it represents are too vital to let lie fallow– hence, John Blake and the intimation that he will carry on as the next Batman.
‘Cause while Blake may be named “Robin”, it’s not like he’s “ROBIN” Robin. He’s just an ordinary cop. But as the film reiterates over and over, Batman could, theoretically, be anyone; it doesn’t MATTER who’s under the mask. What matters is what he stands for, and what the Bat MEANS to people. Like Wayne said in Batman Begins, “As a man, I’m flesh and blood. I can be ignored, I can be destroyed… but as a SYMBOL? As a symbol, I can be incorruptible. I can be everlasting…”
This is what he meant.
There’s only so much you can say ‘doesn’t matter’ though. For example when they stop the bomb truck and Talia is all messed up in the cabin and the clock is ticking down, she floods the tunnel with the core in it (how exactly that works I don’t know as the core of the device should be the thing that actually powers the bomb) but THEN they spend about a minute listening to her waffle on before doing anything, and it is pure forgettable waffle.
Mike really nailed it with the two different types of movie watchers and how Nolan polarizes them. There are not many directors who can appeal to both mindsets and Nolan isn’t one of them.
Personally I pretty much “hate” Nolan’s films because his style and approach just annoys the bejesus out of me because I like films with a good meaty plot and care relatively little about the emotion and style, but I can still objectively say they are good movies.
The more fun it may be, but the inconsistency comes into play with you take a film such as The Dark Knight Rises and use excuses to explain away logic flaws that you wouldn’t do for another film simply because you didn’t like it. If Nolan didn’t try to stress realism at every point, then I think I could forgive the plot holes and overall incoherence of his films. I’m not buying the excuse by the guys at Half in the Bag that the film is somehow meant to be taken abstractly; that all the emphasis on realism is a smoke screen for an epic lucid poem. These are literal films with high concepts and themes that are very much not open to interpretation. When the story falls apart as it does ever so frequently in these films it isn’t because of some grandiose point Nolan is trying to make it’s because of bad storytelling and its less forgivable in a Nolan film because they pretend to be much smarter than they actually are.
They’re easy targets. Plinkett goes for films he can easily tear apart, without provoking the ire of fanboys.
I would love for him to review The Dark Knight or hell, the original Star Wars trilogy. That would actually take some guts.
I must say it’s rather shocking that you boys gave positive reviews to both The Dark Knight Rises and The Avengers given that both films, while not without some merits, would miserably fail the Plinkett treatment. The Avengers had zero tension because there was no main character, no character arc, and all of the heroes were shown to be totally invincible. The Dark Knight Rises, however, was more a blur of bad. Plot holes so numerous and so gaping that the movie made no sense (why didn’t Bane just blow up Gotham the minute he got the bomb? He clearly was unafraid to die and gained nothing by simply waiting for the core to deteriorate so why not just skip everything else? And, if he waited so that he could cause Bruce to suffer by forcing him to watch the city’s erosion, why did he do so by leaving him in a prison, specifically notable because it could be escaped, and why did he trap, but then keep alive by providing food and water, all of Gotham’s police, when both of these things greatly increased the chances of the master plan failing?), a really unclear and convoluted character arc (Bruce needs to confront his emotional issues in order to escape the prison but this somehow didn’t involve Bruce thinking about the death of his parents or Rachel, but instead revolves around the idea of Bruce gaining a fear of death, even though, earlier in the prison sequence we are told that it is fear that prevents people from escaping) and worst, just a slew of wasted opportunities (if they were dead set on the John Blake twist at the end, then why did the character do so little in the film? Why is Alfred, who has always served as the audience’s entry point to this fantastical universe, absent almost the entire time? Why does Catwoman have no clear arc, why is Holly Robinson simply forgotten about halfway through the movie, why is Bane’s motivation so incredibly generic and bland and essentially interchangable with any other Batman villian, and WHY did this movie play it so safe. On the surface everything about it seems risky: the choice of villains, the leap forward in time, the epic scope, but at its core, it is just another bad guy wants to blow up the city plot and one executed without any heart or finesse or, tragically, logic.) I have wondered if the reason you boys seem so forgiving of the really glaring flaws in both of these films is because you care less about comics than the Star Wars, Star Trek, and Indiana Jones canons. Is there any truth to that?
“would miserably fail the Plinkett treatment”
Mike is Plinkett. His opinion is Plinkett’s opinion. Therefore, you are wrong.
I think you miss the point of what I’m saying. Plinkett very clearly points out how the prequels, for example, have no clear main character and how this was to the films’ detriment. The Avengers also lacked a clear main character and yet this went unmentioned. Thusly, the conclusion I’ve drawn is that Mike and Jay are reviewing these movies with criteria (perhaps unconsciously) different that that used in the Plinkett reviews. I think Mike and Jay would agree with that sentiment. I am simply asking if Mike and Jay review these films differently because they have less invested in these stories and characters than they do in the Star Wars, Star Trek, and Indiana Jones films. Also, Mike is not Plinkett. Plinkett is a character. You seem to assume that Mike’s opinion would be identical to that of Harry S. Plinkett. But is Mike a murderer just because Plinkett is?
Mike is NOT Plinkett. Therefore, you are wrong.
Of course they’re viewed with different criteria. Not every movie can be judged by the exact same standards. Would you complain about the lack of a protagonist in 2001: A Space Odyssey? Would you complain that the motivation of the villain is weak in Friday the 13th? No, because the goal of those movies are much different than the goal of something like the prequels or even the Star Trek: TNG features. Movies should be judged by what they’re trying to do, and whether or not they succeed at that.
Watch The Prestige. Watch The Prestige. Mike and Jay, please watch The Prestige. I can’t believe you didn’t mention it. You’re supposed to be big movie assholes, and you said nothing about The Prestige. Idiots.
Why would he rip apart movies that are good? That’s not having guts.
So…because they didn’t mention The Prestige, that means they haven’t seen it? They also didn’t mention Howard the Duck in this review. Does that mean they’ve never seen it?
In the case of Avengers, don’t give it shit for ‘not having a main character’. It was an ensemble, ‘genius’. Of course it doesn’t have just ONE protagonist. And besides, in the Plinkett review, he also states that there can be more than one but mainly it’s best to just have one.
And the heroes in The Avengers were ‘invincible’? How? They were all shown to have their own set of weaknesses and they even had scenes where they were shown to have to fight for what they wanted (i.e. keep the helicarrier from crashing, fight Hulk, fighting the Chitauri, etc). And no character arc? What about Tony going through an arc to become a hero and be a part of a team? Or Steve trying to acclimate himself to a new time era and a new group of teammates? Or Black Widow coming to terms with the blood on her hands after years of being an assassin?
You’re missing his point entirely, but that isn’t surprising.
They gave Prometheus a positive review. I’m not surprised.
Yes, Plinkett is a character. But if you think that the character is written with a different opinion than Mike’s own, then you are what the kids call “stupid.”
I have posted three times and each time my posts are deleted. I am not cursing or being belligerent in them, so why is this happening? Can anyone tell me what I’m doing wrong?
The Dark Knight has plenty of flaws, and I bet you anything he could find a couple in Return of the Jedi, but I understand why he plays it safe.
I’m really suprised you guys liked it this much. While it was a decent movie, I don’t think it met expectations. I really liked almost every Nolan film because he always tells a great story and had awesome characters. In TDKR, I feel like the story felt more like a 90’s bank heist movie than a Batman film. The whole last half of the movie was less about Batman vs Bane and was more about Batman vs a bomb. It became super cheesy, and felt like they kept reminding the audience about how important it was to stop the bomb. They kept switching between 4 sec clips of….a clock winding down….Fox describing how important deactivating the device was…..Robin telling people how the bomb might go off soon. It just got to a point where the main villian was the bomb, which has no place in a Batman movie. I really wanted Bane to be another great Batman villian. I didn’t expect the Joker’s unbeatable expectations, but when all he does is beat Batman up, put him in a pit, and play with bombs, it’s a bit disappointing.
Now, many may say, “but the joker had a bomb at the end of the last film”, but I feel like this scene was very different because of the psychological aspect of it. It made you think about what you would do in that situation and how the other boat has convicts on it versus random citizens, ect. It was less about the bomb and more about the decision.
I also thought that the characters were very poorly written. I feel like they didn’t focus enough time on either Catwoman or John Blake. It was hard to really get the emotional connection you got with Rachel or Harvey Dent in the previous films. I remember all of the scenes with the one-sided coin and thought that was just amazing way of showing who Harvey was before he turned into Two-Face. Catwoman didn’t really have much characterization and was basically, she doesn’t like rich people and she helped a kid steal an apple. I can’t really root for her and Batman to end up together like I did with Rachel in Batman Begins.
I also hated how Blake basically calls out Bruce as Batman because of “his face” and then Bruce doesn’t really deny it. Just irritated me a ton when watching.
Didn’t like the whole Bruce being a cripple at the beggining. Didn’t make a lot of sense as to why. I think I would have liked something more along the lines of Bruce’s personallity becoming crippled that he had to rise from rather than making the physical part so much of the story. For instance, maybe Bruce start becoming more of the billionaire playboy rather than Batman and he loses his focus (e.g, Tiger Woods). A story like that would have been much more interesting than “Hi, I’m Dr ___. OMG you have no cartilage in your knees”.
And the Dark Knight literally rising from the pit was a bit disappointing from Nolan. I kind of feel like too many people complained about Inception being confusing, so he dumbed everything down for everybody. I hate it when an analogy/metaphor like that is just spoon-fed to the audience.
I also hated the whole twist with Miranda/Bane at th end. It felt like they just wanted there to be a twist, so they invented a character for it. She slept with Bruce and I still felt like she was hardly in the movie. If she was supposed to be this important to it, I feel like they could have done a lot more with her character. She was just “there” for a lot of the film with very few lines.
“The Avengers had zero tension because there was no main character, no character arc, and all of the heroes were shown to be totally invincible.”
ALL of its characters were main characters – it was a protagonist ensemble, each of whom by the way was properly introduced, with arc and all, in the previous movies.
Whereas TPM had a group of quasi-main characters that felt like secondary characters – not quite identifiable, not introduced properly, not proactive motivations absent or murky.
Also the Avengers compensated what their characters lacked in personal investment and development with their sparkling PERSONALITIES, which TPM didn’t.
The arc was a collective one, they defeated the bad guy. Bad guy did something that made us hate him, and we rooted for the good guys against the opposition.
Individually, Iron Man had character development, he and Captain had some good INTERACTION, and Thor developed the established relationship with his brother – although both might’ve used more or a better connection to the Thor movie.
The “invincibility” thing I don’t remember quite as well, might have to rewatch it – although they obviously did have to sweat for their victory.
The prequel characters weren’t invincible, either, just unrealistically easy-going with lesser enemies – wasn’t really anywhere close to being the worst flaw of those movies, in my opinion.
But generally, “invincibility” means: FUN. Rule of Cool. The Avengers certainly delivered the fun, justifying their characters’ uber-strength – the SW prequels kinda attempted that with some amusing one-liners and buddy humor, but it was just mildly amusing and kinda fun.
RLM are not always right and often, at the end of the day, reasonably subjective – but their approach to movies isn’t anywhere as formulaic as you’re making it out to be.
“It works best with superhero and action genres” => “a superhero movie with no central character is bad.”
“characters fly through a city, defying physics in this movie is bad” => “similar element in a completely different movie is also bad”.
Try thinking more organically here 🙂
“you care less about comics than the Star Wars, Star Trek, and Indiana Jones canons”
You can ask them that on the forums, but I think it’s pretty obvious that the TNG reviews were obviously made by a (self-aware) nerdy fan of the TV canon, rather than independent reviews of of them as movies.
Picard’s “arc” in FC wasn’t even dealt with, it wasn’t what the review was about.
All the franchises you’ve mentioned have a much more direct link to their predecessors than comic book movies to the comic books, as well – being loose adaptations and all that.
What the internet has taught me is that if you like a film enough you’ll find any excuse to defend it, but if you dislike it enough you’ll use those same excuses against it.
“Plinkett is a character. You seem to assume that Mike’s opinion would be identical to that of Harry S. Plinkett.”
Again, not speaking for others here, but it appears to be the same thing as with the Nostalgia Critic – his movie opinions are the exaggerated, less compromising impressions of Doug Walker, while the way he slams the actors (like Mara Wilson) is just the character being an asshole.
Sometimes, NC almost feels like Walker talking as himself.
Him interacting with other TGWTG’s in many ways reflects their actual background, but is obviously “the character”.
Some people may be pissed at this comparison, but I think the way both “characters” are conceived in terms of separation from their creators are actually very similar.
All the opinions expressed in the Plinkett reviews are probably pretty much Stoklasa’s (or maybe not just his), sometimes straight, sometimes exaggerated.
The jokes and dark background stories are the character.
When he’s judging Anakin’s psychopathic behavior or the “ethics” of using the Gungans, are those opinions invalid because Plinkett is a psychopath? Or actual valid observations of those plot elements by a sensible viewer/critic, and you pretty much just listen to Mike saying what he thinks in a funny voice? Certainly felt like the latter to me. *shrug*
Maybe click “newest” instead of “best” on the top left above the comment section, where it says “Discussion”?
Clarke’s book of 2001 apparently had a TV set standing at the place of the Monolith at the end, and a guy named Rob Ager has argued convincingly that the Monolith looks like a cinema screen and the movie is full of hints about “turning the frame around”.
So here we’ve got a large, black horizontal screen right in front of them, and they mention an “ominous presence”.
Originally I just made a little joke, but I’m starting to wonder whether it really could’ve been a 2001 reference.
So Bruce Wayne, who spent 7 years in the criminal underworlds learning about the mind of a criminal and fighting them for practice, who trained with the league of shadows in combat and deception and still barely managed to defend the city of Gotham, is being replaced by a guy with police training and a kind heart?. . . .well. . .sealed this one up well Nolan
I think it’s less about “grandiose points” and more about “emotional pull” that they’re talking about.
A movie focusing on the emotions of images and characters (and delivering those) can get away with more nonsense in the mechanics of its plot.
I’m not sure how it applies to the Nolan films, even Inception (that movie certainly has a high “puzzle” appeal, i.e. making sense of the exact mechanics of what happens at each point and what everyone is doing – like most heist movies), but it would apply to something like X-Men Origins, which may be sloppy to the core, but held together by its ferocious protagonist and his revenge arc, embellished by fun side characters and a nice rugged villain – just so you get the concept.
It’s not an excuse, it’s just how a story is perceived.
Uh, STAR TREK 11, GUEST.
Best points you’ve made, and discussion you guys have had since the People vs. George Luca!. Especially the points at the last part of the episode.
“They’re easy targets. Plinkett goes for films he can easily tear apart, without provoking the ire of fanboys.
I would love for him to review The Dark Knight or hell, the original Star Wars trilogy. That would actually take some guts.”
You know, while HitB has several of dozens of episodes by this point, the Plinkett reviews are only one so far, and you don’t really have an excuse to be this unfamiliar with their history.
ST First Contact – the most popular TNG movie, considered awesome by lots of fans, and even in my opinion pretty damn good (with “flaws”).
He tore it a new one. Was he afraid of the nerdrage?
Even the Prequels have much more fans than you embarassingly realize – RLM constantly get hatemail and “rebuttals” from the fanboys of those movies, and they still hold up not that bad on Rotten Tomatoes.
They also get flak for supporting ST11 from those who, well, disagree.
He could very easily review TDK or the OT, biting into all the “flaws” while simultaneously explaining why they don’t much detract from, or in some instances, even contribute to their general quality, or aren’t as severe as in the prequels while still undeniably there, etc. – it would only take “guts” to make those reviews negative, but then why would he do that if he finds the movies good?
We wouldn’t want to be “inconsistent” with the Prequel reviews, wouldn’t we? 😉
Not to mention Baby’s Day Out and Cop Dog. Pretty sure nobody was clamoring to hear RLM rip those apart. It’s pretty obvious that Mike/Plinkett/RLM does whatever they want and aren’t just concerned about ripping apart movies that are popular to rip apart.
Batman represents a shadow Christ… a dark version of Jesus. So that’s why the theme is *rise* and he suddenly reappears in Gotham even when it is impossible to get in or out…
So am I to assume you guys didn’t like Batman Begins as much as the latter two? I hear Rises measured against Dark Knight a lot, but honestly, villain aside, I thought that Begins was better in pretty much every way, certainly story-and-character-wise. You’re right about the camera work, but that was Batman The Terrifying Barely Seen Shadow, instead of Batman The Slow Moving Kevlar Boxer, and I thought it lent itself to that.
Actually, I got more of a Nietzsche-esq vibe from it– “Übermensch” means literally “overman”, and Thus Spoke Zarathustra makes several references to overcoming (or “going over”… as in, rising above) who you were and what is holding you back. So if you think of Batman’s rage as what he’s overcoming and rising above… ah, it’s just the impression I got from it.
Their both wrong . . Dark Knight Rises is not nearly as good as The Dark Knight. There’s an immediate affection for a film like this when it’s first released but, as time goes by and people start to review it objectively, it will be remembered as a jumbled mess and a disappointment.
How hard is it to keep this shit straight?
They ARE. They’re.
alfred told bruce in the film where he like to take a vacation to and which french restaurant…..didn’t anyone figure that out? so bruce knew where alfred was going to be since alfred goes there every year, the staff would know who this english guy was and its not hard to find out where he would sit if bruce just ask where the man sits whenever he comes for vacation….or maybe he had a planner book and bruce just look into that.
I don’t think you can easily dismiss inconsistencies as ‘just part of the spectacle’ when the series has held itself up as the ‘gritty, realistic’ superhero movie series. Stuff like Batman clanging a nuke into every streetlight in the city is stupid as hell when viewed in the context of ‘No, we’re the SERIOUS superhero movie, remember?’. I usually like these reviews, but between your inconsistent stances from movie to movie and the up-your-own-ass-ishness of talking about how you’re the enlightened, ‘both sides of the movie’ type reviewers, the whole thing fell flat.
Love the disjointedness of the intro. Nice throw back to the movie. 😀
come on what? if youre going to speak, then say something
I seem to remember reading something about how test audiences couldn’t understand what Bane was saying, so they went back and cleaned up his voice. Seems plausible to me.
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with using gadgets, but the problem was that they “didn’t require any discipline to attain it”. The character arc that the film’s title alludes to is one involving Bane destroying Wayne’s wealth, Wayne’s company, and pillaging Wayne’s armory, and from the depths of the grisly prison Bruce Wayne emerges only to have Cat-hotpants shoot Bane with a missile from the bat-bike. Wait wwaatt? How does that in any way fulfill Batman’s character arc? Had Bruce broken into the enemy compound using his stealth abilities, and stole back his Bat-plane & gadgets, and then use them to subdue Bane, in an intelligent manner like the briefcase in ‘From Russia with Love’ to, then that would’ve fulfilled Batman’s character arc far more satisfyingly.
Well, in Inception it was kind of the point of the whole movie (or the second half at least) – dream levels, stuff happens everywhere at once, and at the end, converges just in time.
If anything, you could whine about that – the “stopping the bomb at the last second” at the end of Inception.
Star Wars tacked on that multiple ending, and it wasn’t helped by logical problems there. Although I personally didn’t mind it all that much
There’s absolutely nothing wrong with using gadgets, but the problem was that they “didn’t require any discipline to attain it”. The character arc that the film’s title alludes to is one involving Bane destroying Wayne’s wealth, Wayne’s company, and pillaging Wayne’s armory, and from the depths of the grisly prison Bruce Wayne emerges only to have Cat-hotpants shoot Bane with a missile from the bat-bike. Wait wwaatt? How does that in any way fulfill Batman’s character arc? Had Bruce broken into the enemy compound using his stealth abilities, and stole back his Bat-plane & gadgets, and then use them to subdue Bane, in an intelligent manner like the briefcase in ‘From Russia with Love’ to, then that would’ve fulfilled Batman’s character arc far more satisfyingly.
The spinning top was still spinning!
Bruce got back into Gotham because it was convenient for the plot.
Exactly. The thing that is missing most from this movie are “scenes.” That’s why the Game of Thrones HBO series is such a breath of fresh air to me – because there are long un-interrupted scenes
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgwaD7h9Ttk&feature=relmfu There’s never an expository break, or a moment to get to know the characters in the latest film… it just feels like it’s one big rush to get to the ending.
I read your post with the Plinkett voice.
What was the point of Talia taking over Wayne Industries if Bane was going to pillage WayneIndustries’ armory and destroy Bruce’s wealth anyway? It’s not like she gave the keys to Bane… he brute forced himself in there.
Well, he was talking about fan defenders and I doubt those two had that many of those 🙂
I don’t think reviewing really bad, less famous movies is that much of an unpopular move – the Nostalgia Critic and some(;) of his colleagues have made a career out of it.
But why does Talia need to be in the movie? Why even surrender control of WayneIndustries to Talia when Bane destroys Bruce’s wealth, then pillages WI’s armory through sheer brute force? Her character is completely worthless.
I loved the part where Bruce Wayne, Bane, Bruce Bain, and Bruce Banner sang “Insane in the Membrane” in Brisbane.
You guys didn’t feel that shoehorning Bane’s motivation into the League of Shadows was a bit cheap and unimaginative? Compare that to the originality of the Joker’s scheming in Dark Knight. To him, morality was a big joke, and his scheming was designed around that philosophy. Bane was nothing more than a League of Shadows thug. It seems that without venom, in Nolan’s real world vision, they needed a viable reason for Bane to defeat Batman. Enter: League of Shadow training. Unfortunately, their solution resulted in Bane becoming a mercinary for someone else’s vision, and a bodyguard for some dumb chick. Combine that with the lack of character and expression due to Bane’s face mask, you get one boring villain. For those reasons I missed Joker the whole time.
HAHA! It SHOULD have been Luscious Fox.
Excellent point! My reaction exactly.
I agree. Make Bane a mercenary with his own motives – and he becomes a much more interesting character
How did Bane get out of the hole again? Why were prisoners in the hole letting them get in and out without a fight? Why was the hole even in the movie, when I saw it, it was the first time I looked at my watch? Second time Bruce Wayne tried to get out I almost yelled “DROP THE ROPE!” in the theater.
Don’t even get me started on the Alfred-movie ending predictable story.
The only unpredictable thing in this movie was the “villain at the end”-reveal, which was very good.
Some of the action scenes were clumsily done. At one point, I thought, why doesn’t that guy hit Batman now? Oh, NOW he did! but what about that guy? Oh, now that it was 1on1 again, he swung at Batman.
Why was the character of Foley even in this movie, cut him out and we’d have saved 10 minutes of our lives.
It was a better than average action movie, but nowhere near the second movie.
I’m a bit disappointed, I was looking forward to one of your great indepth reviews again, and all I got was this.
People hate Christopher Nolan? Perhaps I travel in different circles, but I see nothing but overwhelming fanboy devotion to the guy online. Hell, just look at the hate when that one reviewer “dared” to give TDKR a negative review.
Its either Mr. Plinketts sister or Adam Sandler who is out to get them 🙂
What do you guys say?
batman is literally a goddamned ninja, you bet he can sneak into gotham
‘American’ city is new york (clearly),
the ‘non-descript, middle-eastern prison’ is actually near Mehrangarh Fort in Jodhpur, India
It only takes about 15 hours and is completely free!
“Hey, that’s the name of this show.”
They make a point to say in dark knight that Wayne manor is outside the city limits. Batman getting his gear and infiltrating isn’t that out of place.
The Illusionist is better.
How did they get to the vcr store so fast, nothing makes sense anymore
The characters in The Avengers did have character arcs but you were probably too busy messing about on your iphone to notice them. Switch it off and put it away, it’ll still be there when the film has finished.
As for your worries about giving comic book movies a pass, I think it’s quite clear that they don’t care for The Amazing Spider-Man. ;-D
Those weren’t really the plot holes that ruined the movie for me. ***SPOILER*** If Bane had a
trigger to the neutron bomb, why didn’t he detonate it at the first sign
of trouble? Why was the trigger necessary as a plot device? Why didn’t
they flood the reactor as soon as the core was retrieved, or simply
destroy it? Why was the convoluted Miranda-as-daughter-of Ra’s-Al-Goul
plot twist remotely necessary? Was there really no other way to reveal
Ra’s-Al-Goul as the mercenary other than to have a ghost-dream sequence
where he (bwahahaha) reveals this to Batman himself and fades away
before the cut scene? How exactly is Gotham City inhabitable after a
neutron bomb is detonated a few miles away? How was the city spared by
flying the bomb offshore for a minute and a half when the blast radius
alone is 5 miles? Why did Bane decide that he had to kill Batman 11
minutes before a nuclear weapon was to annihilate the both of them,
other than as an opportunity for Cat Woman to redeem herself? If the point of this movie was slap-stick, then Nolan nailed it.
The Dark Knight Rises had So many problems. (SPOILER ALERT!!!!)
#1 Batman does not give up…ever. So for him to quit fighting crime is ridiculous.
#2 For Batman to quit fighting crime because of Rachel? TOTALLY RIDICULOUS. You may as well make it Darth Vader asking about Padme.
#3 Alfred would NEVER EVER leave Bruce Wayne. Please refer to Batman Begins.
Near the beginning of the movie:
Bruce: Don’t give up on me Alfred.
After the Wayne manor is burned down
Bruce: You haven’t given up on me Alfred
But then THAT IS WHAT HE DOES!!! Bullshit!
#4 Referring back to Darth Vader. Bane is supposed to be a powerful general. For him to be relegated to a lackey who does what he does because he is in love with Talia Al Ghul….that makes Bane weaker and very much what the prequels do to Darth Vader.
#5 Why were the cops underground for three months with no light, limited food and limited water and they look just fine…not disheveled or worn out?
#6 When I come back to Lucious Fox after the same three month period…when he has been robbed of all of his goods….he looks the same. No five o’clock shadow. Not dirty. Nothing has changed.
#7 The storyline with the orphans on the bridge, and knocking on the doors to warn people, makes no sense. There is no reason for the kids to be involved that much.
#8 Why would Bruce Wayne pretend to be dead? What is the point? All of the villains who knew he was Batman are dead. John Blake (Robin) is invited to his cave. Commissioner Gordon knows who is he, but is okay with it. Catwoman knows who Batman is, but she always has known in the comics. So why would Bruce Wayne pretend to die since he apparently plans to still reign as Batman?
#9 So Bruce Wayne pretends he is dead. Alfred is torn to shreds emotionally by this. Then Alfred goes to Florence….sees Bruce and is just like, “Oh, Okay”. Wouldn’t he be either very relieved or very pissed?!? Most people would be knowing that the person you lived your life to protect and raise just put you through emotional turmoil.
#10 Ras Al Ghul was always against the decadence of Gotham City. When Talia and Bane succeed in taking away the decadence and have wrecked the upper class of the city….why would they then decide to destroy it? They accomplished what they wanted. So why destroy the city?
#11 And they were planning to destroy the city….while they were occupying it? So they wanted to destroy the city that they just made to way they wanted it…and were willing to kill themselves? It makes no sense.
Like I said…there were a TON of issues with this movie. These were just the most glaring. Was it a decent movie? Yes. But it created too many questions than it answered. And it took away all of the great stuff we love about Batman. Gadgets, smarts, cool vehicles, and being a bad ass. To see these things…watch the first two movies. Don’t expect them from The Dark Knight Rises.
Also, the movie is riddled with contrivances that no one seems to be discussing. For example, Bane seems omnipotent in his estimation that Gordan would send the entire police force down the sewer and astronomically lucky that they were sent during the Gotham Rogues game, his post-detonation pulpit. It was also odd that the trapped police officers surfaced after several months under the city clean shaven and in tip-top shape to fight Bane’s goons. Also, why did Bane need to blow a hole through the floor of Wayne Enterprise’s research department if he had taken control of the board through Miranda (or vice versa)?
These little issues I can forgive… it’s an action movie, after all… but the character development is also abysmal. For example, through the first act of the film, Miranda seems to be a philanthropist lesbian until she’s invited to the Wayne Estate, and then magically transforms into Bruce’s love interest literally overnight. Additionally, Cat Woman has an Occupy Wall Street rant or two without the background or moral footing (a thief calling millionaire philanthropists thieves is a bit unconvincing) as if to scream to the audience, “I am a sympathetic villain!”
I’m usually a fan of Christopher Nolan movies but I didn’t like this one which surprised me. There were just too many plotholes and completely stupid character motivations and it dragged on for entirely too long.
Okay, fine… but why does Bane have a trigger at all? Why is that not a laughable plot device to everyone? The bomb is timed to go off in 5 months, and Bane clearly had no intention of setting it off earlier (or he would have the second he saw a gigantic flaming bat icon on the bridge). It seems to me that the only reason the trigger existed was to have a reason for a chase scene.
I get why Batman might fake his death when he didn’t really die (kind of). I don’t get why Bruce Wayne has to fake his death and lose his entire fortune or why no one seems to notice what an odd coincidence that is.
Oh, and ….SPOILER! ^^^^^ sorry
That answers many of life’s questions, I find.
And right after the Spiderman thing, the exact reverse now:
Make of that what you want 😀
You can edit your posts, you know.
Remember in BB that the first way the League tried to destroy Gotham was economically which actually inadvertently created Batman. Also the Wayne family created that train to help(cheap transportation) which actually staved off the fall of Gotham. So in the ultimate act of revenge against the Waynes for disrupting there plan. The League chose Bruce(Gothams favorite son) to help destroy Gotham and to poor salt in the wounds they tried to use the very train that helped save the city to destroy it, by running it into the water tower.
DKR the League uses the same logic by once again turning something that Bruce Wayne wanted to use for good for Gotham into something that would destroy it (Free Energy into Fusion Bomb). The series has always been about LOS out to destroy Gotham and their seeking revenge against the Waynes for stopping them.
Also i had no problem with the Fusion bomb blowing up and not causing radiation fallout. It was comic booky logic to even be able to create a bomb from that anyway.
Not sure if my last comment got posted, but there’s also a short RLM shout-out in this one 🙂
To be fair, I agree with your statement about the end with Alfred.
BUT: Alfred also said there was a particular restaurant in Flourence that he went to everyday, hoping to see him there. So, seeing him there may not have been as big of a stretch as it could have been.
Yeap…all that too.
Very interesting take on the series and how Nolan works as a director, the whole emotional core over the plot business. TBH I have not been enjoying this series. I don’t really like the realistic take and I find Bale to be a poor Batman. Thing about that is he could be better. Much better. But Nolan was not interested in making a real Batman movie. I didn’t understand what he was trying to do until your review. He is using the external plot as a metaphor of Bruce Wayne’s internal struggle. Losing his parent early and not having any direction, Bruce Wayne did not know what to do with his life. The villains represent what he could become and the movies show him physically battling with that possibility. I don’;t know how he finally turns out and don’t particularly care, but you’ve given me a fresh perspective on the movies and what they mean that the rampant fanboy warbling just could not convey.
Interestingly, your description of Nolan’s methods remind me of another well-known director: M. Night Shyamalan. Shyamalan similarly has movies with an emotional core with plots full of holes or hopelessly convoluted. The difference between Shyamalan and Nolan is that Nolan has not had the serious misfires Shyamalan has had and had his audience turn against him. That may never happen or it might happen with his very next film. I can’t wait.
Batman got back into the city by using snakes as ropes. In the Batman universe everyone uses snakes as ropes.
I dont get why people love superheros so much. We’re all imperfect people who do bad things. Batman would give you a speeding ticket or bust you for pot if you met him in person. How can you cheer for a character like that any more than you can for someone who wants to destroy the world?
I think that its not important how he got back to the city. It was already a long movie, its not beyond suspension of belief that Bruce Wayne could figure out a way to get back into the city
BEG TO DIFFER: Nolan also ‘does as he is told by the studio’.
“Hollywood spends millions of dollars trying to buy off politicians. They’ve even repeatedly let Senator Patrick Leahy — the sponsor of the Senate version of SOPA (called PIPA) and the chairman of the powerful Senate Judiciary Committee, which has jurisdiction over most bills that Hollywood cares about — appear in their summer blockbusters. He’s in the Dark Knight Rises, and was also in the last Batman movie.”
This legislative bullying by the MPAA (“Hollywood”) — would- no doubt – hamper any future “Plinket Reviews”.
Was it just me, or did it seem like 90% of the movie was shot at noon? Kinda sunny for a Dark Knight.
I think it’s time to add another layer to your tin foil hat
… Why does Bane have a trigger? For the bomb that could, theoretically, be defused by simply hooking it back up to the underground power station Lucias showed to Miranda Tate and company? I don’t know, maybe because SHIT HAPPENS?
If Bane had no way of setting off the bomb before the five months were up, then its possible that someone could have captured the bomb, say, three months in, and either hooked it back into its power station or found some other way to dispose of it. Sure, he could just SAY he had a detonator, but if a resistance force sprung up and overthrew Bane, discovering that there was no such detonator, they could just take the bomb and defuse it or get rid of it someplace isolated (with the aid of the military or something). Hell, they implied that submerging the core in water would effectively neutralize the threat, so maybe all they’d have to do is dunk the damn thing in the Gotham River.
The reason Bane didn’t set it off sooner, though, is because he wanted to instill false hope in Gotham, the world, and Bruce Wayne, so that the city’s destruction could be even more devastating. And as for the flaming Bat-symbol on the bridge… come on, he had no way of knowing if it was Batman, or just some psychological tactic taken by the underground resistance. He figured he still had things in hand. And again, if it WAS Batman, better to blow the city after giving him the barest hope that he could save everybody, so that the man dies in anguish.
What is wrong with Jay’s shirt? You are weird, man.
I think that was an intentional choice considering the first two films were shot at night or in the dark.
Thanks for the upload! Keep up the great reviews. Loved the movie!
I haven’t seen the movie yet but it’s been pretty well spoiled for me. What you said about the fairy tale presentation seems well served by lines like “But is Ra’s al Ghul immortal? Are his methods supernatural?” and “I think you and I are destined to do this forever.” and “I went to fucking ninja school so I can walk across a missing bridge invisibly” except not that last one. Yes emotional momentum is imporant but look at how regard for Prometheus has/is already changing since people had a chance think about that. You guys had to do two videos on it. Logic-shmogic, indeed. Sorry that this idea is probably already posted but rabid fan sentiment has put me off reading TDKRi comments. It’s only fair then that people don’t read mine, you say? LOL Too late!
So, you want the movie to be even LONGER? Will Hyland is right. He was able to get into Gotham because he’s Batman. No other explanation is needed.
Though I really like Inception, my biggest problem with it was at the end how “scripted” it felt. The characters were great, the action was good, reactions and story felt natural. BUT, “the bigger picture”, everything sorta fell too well into place, like almost every corner was polished off. My point is everything complimented another everything else too well. Leonardo is years out of the country, and everything sorta falls together in a month, helping a billionaire who then helps him in the end, while realizing and coping with his dead wife and his guilt over that. All the details worked a bit TOO well together, and due to that the movie felt a little less real and more scripted…
THEN WHO WAS PHONE
major plot hole
I honestly was a little scared to watch the HITB review of this movie which is why I’ve come to it a little late, but I think Mike and Jay gave a perfectly fair review of it and I have nothing else to add. I guess my only “complaint” is that they didn’t mention Joseph Gordon-Levitt’s character, but that was because I really enjoyed his role in the film, so I was curious to know what they thought of him. oh well.
Nowhere else to go with this? How about putting Dick God Damn Grayson in the movies? Dick’s the best Robin there is.
Agree with the other comments, you guys should have a wider exposure! Late night cable at least. Any chance you can get on Rotten Tomatoes? That would get you more clicks.
I disagree with you on the movie … the pacing was weird. They breezed past 80 days in like a 90 second montage. And there was too much crap packed in, like Robin trying to help the kids on the school bus (why, just to give him something to do?) And then they set up a sequel perfectly with Robin, but there’s going to be no sequel, so kinda pointless. Plus they made EVERYTHING so explicitly tied up, like did Alfred have to tell Batman about the letter he burned? It would have been so much better dramatically if he took his dark secret to the grave even though he regretted it. Anyway it was still an enjoyable film, I just didn’t love it and I doubt I’ll watch it again.
Too bad the bomb makes no goddamn sense. How do they know to the minute when an UNSTABLE nuclear reaction is going to take place?
Why is there a huge glowing timer on the side panel? Did Lucius put that on there just in case a scientist they thought was dead removed the core and rigged it to blow?
And it’s a NUCLEAR bomb, right? It explodes a few miles offshore and everything’s just fine? No shockwave? No horrible death to anyone? What?
Just because Modine was present during plot-relevant scenes doesn’t mean his character was necessary for the plot.
A large part of the “ending multiplication effect” comes from each of the endings having disparate emotional tones. Nolan’s endings are certainly more consistent in that regard.
They make a pretty big deal about Lucius finding out that the auto-pilot on the “bat” had been repaired 6 months earlier by Bruce Wayne. Its heavily implied that Bruce faked his own death, used the identity earaser that Catwoman was so eager to use, and the two of them started a new life together.
Would be a pretty massive red herring if that was not the case.
As an aside, this part of the movie bugged me a lot. Earlier, Bane was in a similar situation where he had Batman at his mercy but chose not to kill him so Batman could witness Gotham’s suffering. Batman escapes and interferes with the League of Shadow’s plan. So she’s going to keep him alive again to again witness Gotham’s suffering? Ehhhh.
… What? You somehow think that a character who’s trying to enforce laws is just as unsympathetic a character as someone who’s trying to destroy the world? Do you realize that you’ve just morally equated giving out a speeding ticket to murdering people? Are you intentionally trolling, or are you an anarchist or something?
Sure, people are flawed and all people are capable of doing bad things. But it’s not like that’s ALL we do. Morality doesn’t fly out the window just because its not perfect in all cases. Superheroes represent the drive to do GOOD things with our lives, and to try to make the lives of others better for it. (They are also, undeniably, power fantasies, but that’s besides the point.) And for better or worse, that’s the purpose of laws, too: to allow people to live harmoniously with each other by providing guidelines for appropriate behavior and protections for our basic rights. It’s not a perfect system, but it’s all we have.
Wow, this review was somewhat uncharacteristic of you two. I think your view of “don’t think, it’s artsy” was a real disappointment from your regular intelligent and analytical reviews. Very disappointing actually since The Dark Knight Rises was riddled with plot holes (such as Bane’s plan of dying in a nuclear explosion Gotham to stop crime all over the world).
Furthermore, this movie really wasn’t as realistic as you led on either, and was actually quite goofy at times. The Calvary charge of cops and big brawl in the street being an example, or slapping a vertebra back into position.
Not to say I don’t enjoy character development, but this should a Batman movie, not the Jim Gordon movie or Bruce Wayne: In a Hole. This film was 3 hours long Batman should should have a little more screen time than 15 minutes.
In conclusion, WHO HAS THE TRIGGER? WHO HAS THE TRIGGER? WHO HAS THE TRIGGER?
Excellent review. I agree completely. “big, sloppy but highly entertaining”. And im glad you guys liked the ending. After hearing people bitch incessantly about it (mainly giant comic book nerds), its nice to know that some people basically get it.
“I think your view of “don’t think, it’s artsy” was a real disappointment from your regular intelligent and analytical reviews.”
Actually, that was the exact attitude in the ST11 review.
Come on, you’re reading waaaay too into a Batman movie. You’re in the wrong Nolan film to be questioning your own eyes when it comes to the ending.
However, I think Alfred smiling at someone off camera (or maybe we see the back of his head) would have been a pretty classy way to end it. Maybe not quite clear enough, bearing in mind that you really ought to make your Batman movie completely accessible to, like, ten year olds.
Well, now it’s a logistics problem. Seriously, how long do you want the movie to be? Also, Bats doesn’t want reports of BatGear being reclaimed to be what alerts Bane that he’s back. He wants the dramatic symbol of the flaming Batsignal, which leaves Bane wondering if it’s really him, or if someone else is trying to spook him, and from the look on his face, he’s almost second guessing whether Batman is some kind of unkillable phantom that lives up to his rep, in spite of his LoS training.
I don’t think the Batman stash was “set up quick-like”. It was established as his new base of operations because his mansion was still being rebuilt. The Dark Knight doesn’t strike me as a movie Nolan made with a sequel in mind (unlike Batman Begins).
Don’t know about you, but I found Bruce’s climb to be plenty exciting and dangerous, as well as cathartic and totally living up to the title. Ever do any climbing? It’s plenty dangerous and exciting. I know it gets my heart pounding.
My girlfriend, who could give two shits for Batman and wasn’t jazzed about the second film (but nevertheless came, not working on Friday and not wanting to miss out on this pop culture event), said afterwards, “I really liked that scene where he was climbing out. It made me feel like I could climb out of problems.” To which I informed her that she had fallen for the intended catharsis. Had it been a montage of Bat-ninja stuff, she would have yawned.
Point: not everything in the movie has to be Bat-fanservice. The climb out of the prison is an example of a scene that’s so riveting that it transcends Batmanness. At the same time I would argue that it’s totally in character with the best Batman stories and is a great example of stripping away a hero’s toys, friends, and even health and watching him overcome all of it.
“I’m sure I’m not the only one”.
Read: I wasn’t the only one who voiced that opinion. While I don’t feel that Mike “personally” replied to my comments, I think that he responded to people calling him out for not applying the same scrutiny to certain films (especially Prometheus). People including me. Possibly because he’s flooded with emails of people bitching at him about this, and he felt the need to clarify his perspective.
Long-winded? Yeah, I guess. The movie was on my mind all weekend and I looked forward to the opportunity to vent.
Curious that you had time to research how many comments were on each video but didn’t could be bothered to read the post to see if you disagreed with it. But did have time to tell me it was too long. Well, thanks for sharing.
More concise and without insult. Thanks.
You’re right, it was too long. I don’t post on messageboards very often and I guess I forget to break up my thoughts or self-edit in the name of brevity.
I can’t fault the ‘bomb mcguffin’ because I see it as a tribute to this http://humormood.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/batman-bomb-run-o.gif and it makes me love it more. I choose to believe it was intentional!
Who else wants to see a sequel starring Joe-Gordon Levitt? No Nolan, new writers, different tone to reflect the change and the fact that it’s a different man. No Bale, no Michael Caine (as if he’d ever do another Batman movie), no Morgan Freeman.
Gary Oldman would be nice, but not necessary. If he refuses, maybe a “Who Killed Jim Gordon?” murder mystery might be a nice initial thrust.
There’s certainly plenty left in the rogue’s gallery. Eccleston finally gets to be Riddler, maybe? Or maybe Poison Ivy done right? Even Firefly (Scott Beatty Batgirl version) would be really cool on film. Also, Scarecrow’s not dead, and has yet to be “The Main Villain” in a Batman movie.
Worst thing since bag pipes!
You are absolutely obsessed with that ST11 review.
Terminator 2 is shit though.
I don’t see why people don’t talk about this more. Batman should not be fighting a bomb! He should be fighting a villian! This plot was like a Die Hard movie, not a Nolan Batman film. It’s not comic book fans or nerds that dislike the movie. Its anyone that paid attention to the writing. The script was terrible. Ignoring the plot holes (which I agree for the most part aren’t the problem), the actual story sucks. The “rise” of Batman from a literal hole is not “artsy” but a lazy metaphor for dumb people. He fights a bomb. There’s a twist in the end with Bane that is thrown in for the sake of having a twist.
For me, it’s just disappointing that the guy responsible for the Dark Knight, which imo has the best and most complete story in any movie I’ve watched, would put out this quality of script. I didn’t like the Nolan Batman movies for their visuals. I liked them for their story and deep characters. TDKR was a big letdown in those areas.
How does Bruce get back into Gotham? He’s batman, do you think every time he comes into the city he pays his bridge toll? The man has his tricks and considering his bat cave is connected to gothams drainage system I’d bet that’s a good place to start. Maybe he walked across the ice- like he did later in the film? I think the biggest plot hole is how he wasn’t more crippled by the end of the film than he was at the start
Dark Plinkett Rises:
Please. Nothing is intentionally hidden in these films and the movies are not made for “thinking” audiences. They’re full of interesting concepts but then everything is explained so thoroughly to the audience, it just removes any thinking from it. The number of times they talk about “the hero everybody blah” in DK should make that obvious, and it’s one of the major problems I had with that film. In short the movies seem to trick people into thinking they’ve gone through a really deep experience, when everything has just been spoon-fed to them. And you think Nolan want’s his audience to put the pieces of the puzzle together themselves!?
Hey, you kids, keep it down. Some of us haven’t seen this movie yet.
Firefly? Wasn’t he a GI Joe villain
Batman had an arc? He spent almost the entire movie doing a few push ups in a hole haha.. Then without money or ID he teleports right next to Cat Woman in Gotham.. Great.
When you find yourself thinking, “huh?” and “what?” a lot, that’s usually a bad thing…. I’m extremely surprised that both of you enjoyed this movie…I thought it was a garbled mess of a plot, wrapped in a nice bow of visuals that were supposed to outshine that lack of sense being made in the movie… It was just a series of things happening. Most of the movie felt like waiting for nothing to happen.
As for characterization, whereas “The Dark Knight” was a perfect realization of the dichotomy between the Joker and Batman, “The Dark Knight Rises” somehow manages to break a fundamental character trait for EVERY character from Batman down to Alfred, with the single exception of Commissioner Gordon… And I guess Bayne isn’t broken, because he’s never properly developed in the first place… You learn virtually nothing about what could have been a very rich character…
I thought the 2:45 running time of this movie was to allow it to make sense of how many plot elements they already crammed in…It turns it out was just used to cram even more elements in,not do any of them justice, and to set up what will surely be some kind of terrible sequel … It was already stupid to try and do Bane and “Catwoman” in the same movie.
I didn’t expect to dislike this movie at all… I was VERY excited that they picked Bane, because from seeing the other movies, I thought this crew had a pretty good handle on making things there own without breaking them. This is like the third X-Men movie all over again. There are too many things wrong with it to list… This goes into my personal non-cannon section of my mind, along with the Star Wars prequels, and Matrix sequels….
How did I misspell Bane….?
I couldn’t get on with this film once it was apparent what the plot was about, as it was basicaly inspired by the no-mans land graphic novel story arc, only no where near as good in any aspect whatsoever. They should have just done a film version of that minus Two-face and had done with it.
The problem with all the Christopher Nolan Batman films is they’re just too, well, constipated. Watching them feels almost like doing a really long and difficult poo.
Personally I always found Nolan’s movies kind of “empty”. It’s great when you are watching it because of the spectacle. But when you think about it afterwards, it just feel “empty”, a lack of substance.
Now I can overlook plot holes if they are not too “explicit”. So that’s not my problem with him.
I don’t really know what’s wrong with his movies. Part of me feels that it might be because the “emotional core” of his movies are poorly presented. They are not at the forefront, they don’t drive the movie. OK, maybe they do drive the movie, but the emotional core isn’t what’s pulling me along. In a way, it’s like his movies are driven more by an “on paper” theme with the characters (and emotional core they form) as background props.
The plot holes in inception/batman don’t matter, and that’s the big difference. What would be served by having a 10 minute scene of him re-entering the city? Whether they do a 10 minute scene or he just appears from the mist the same thing happens, Batman returns to the city. So why not just cut the 10 minute scene out and get on to the important stuff?
The difference between plot holes in Batman and, say, Prometheus is that in batman they’re about small things that don’t affect the story or the characters whereas in the Prometheus the plot holes are about major characters’ motivations and the main plot points like why the aliens would want to exterminate Earth. Those are big plot points because they involve major parts of the film instead of the minor things in Batman.
“small things that don’t affect the story”
It affects the credibility. This plothole had an impact on people because nearly everybody considered it a flaw, even the casual viewers. Plot holes are unimportant if people don´t notice them, like for example the fact that Banes plan to destroy Gotham is kinda pointless, since Gotham has turned into a peaceful town. But nobody gives a shit about that because nobody notices something like that.
What is your definition of “nearly everybody?” Sounds like you spend too much time in message boards listening to vocal internet nerds. The movie’s been critically and commercially well-received.
The only Nolan movies I’ve ever really liked are “The Prestige” and “Batman Begins,” the others – especially the 2nd and 3rd Batman movies – feel like they’ve been edited within an inch of their lives. It feels like most of his scenes have very little room to breathe.They’re well made, enjoyable movies but no more than that. The crazy OTT fanboy adoration really mystifies me.
Yea, since the editing is kind of meh, there can’t be anything special about TDK for those fanboys to adore.
Nah, it just flies in the face of your and Rob’s comments – kinda makes them dumb and pointless, you know? No big deal.
Personally I thought the only real serious plothole in this movie had to do with the bomb.
Primarily why the heck would they just drive it around the city for 5 months when the villains clearly planned to blow the city up with themselves still in it the whole time and had a detonator? Why not just blow it up right away? Were they trying to make a point to the rest of the world? So make your statements about why you’re doing it and then blow it up. The only reason to drag it out for 5 months was to give someone (batman) the chance to come stop them. Having characters act irrationally simply because otherwise the plot falls apart isn’t good writing in my opinion.
you really think the only reason people are nagging about plot holes is because it’s “hyper” realistic? It’s semi-realistic, and people will complain about the plot holes in winnie the poohs rumbly tumbly hefalump what-have-you if it’s worth arguing about. People complain about flaws because they think it makes them look smart
I assume that however the special forces guys (including “Franco” from “Rescue Me”) got into Gotham City, Bruce Wayne is at least that resourceful. The special forces guys were asked how they got in, and “Franco” responded, “This is what we do.” I’d even buy it if Bruce did a Snake Plissken and glided in at night onto a rooftop.
they didn’t mention the joker out of respect for heath ledger, and what would be the point? Nolan probably wanted the movie to stand alone from the previous one, and not needlessly draw comparisons for the audience. Blake was saving the kids because thats what Gordon (his superior officer) told him to do, and they established his connection with the orphans earlier in the movie. Gordon was “swinging around” because he had been cooped up in a hospital bed with a morphine drip the entire movie, and being one of the major supporting characters in the movie, he needed a few more lively scenes, or they wanted to show the resilience of his character. Both Gordon and batman were characters of the “Old Guard” dealing with battle wounds where they had to “play through the pain”. the ending was to say batman did retire and Blake was the new batman. when Blake goes into the cave at the end his jacket is designed to look like the costume for Nightwing (Dick Graysons’ persona after he gives up being robin). i believe it was an homage to the comics where Nightwing, after Bruce’s “death”, takes up the cowl and becomes the new Batman. Oh, and DC would never allow a movie to be made where batman ACTUALLY dies, never going to happen.
His characters tend to be very sterile and loveless is why. He’s not good at writing about real love.
He’s great at writing sequences and selective repetition, but he can’t seem to write characters that can believably love.
Really? You wanted to be exactly like the clusterfuck of a thing that was No Man’s Land? No Man’s Land was a good concept, but it was executed like fucking ass. TDKR took the concept and executed it masterfully.
I thought the breaking out of prison sequence was riveting the first time I saw it in Shawshank Redemption, or was it Cool Hand Luke, or was it the Great Escape, or was it the Count of Monte Cristo, or was it Escape from Alcatraz… not sure if “riveting” is the right verb to describe it, as the only reason it suddenly became not sleep inducing was because Bruce denied the rope/harness.
It wasn’t like in the Count of the Monte Cristo where Dantes had just a split second opportunity to escape, and accomplished it in a very ingenious fashion. Bruce’s denial of the rope was more exciting the when Alfred told him to “Use the Force” and “Let go” when he was flying the bat-plane out into the ocean in the end.
Using your girlfriend as a source may be what’s called an Appeal to Girlfriend fallacy as I’m not sure what level of expertise in film she has. How did she like Magic Mike?
Alas, I didn’t have a major problem with the prison or prison break sequences – so kind of a straw man there. Adding sequences involving Bruce Wayne stealthily sneaking into Bane’s HQ, hanging suspended over a guard, waiting for the perfect time to strike is a lot more riveting than Blake running around with a school bus of snot-nosed kids, or that idiot captain that got shot, or any scene involving Talia, or Gordon playing a real-live version of a 16 bit platformer, jumping from vehicle to vehicle, looking for a nuclear bomb that should be securely hidden and guarded by 50 foot soldiers.
Great film. I agree with the point of the beginning being too fast, I would’ve appreciated it being a bit slower paced. I also found Bane a bit difficult to understand, but the gist of what he was saying was understandable.
Overall, well-composed films that justified most of what it tried to do. It didn’t try to cheat you, it tried to earn everything.
Hey, assholes! Bruce Wayne knew which cafe Alfred went to every year because he gave him then name at the start of the film so he knew where he would be…..so that isn’t a plot hole. Also, when it comes to how Bruce Wayne was able to get back into Gotham when the city had been closed off……not only could he have walked over the ice but also one of the bridges still hadn’t been blown because we get to see that happen later on.
Reviews are never objective. Also denial can be an ugly thing.
Wait, if Rich was planning on killing them all along, why did the save them from those other dudes? WHAT A PLOT HOLE. Get it together guys.
(I’m being sarcastic in case it isn’t obvious)
“Batman Begins” and “The Prestige” are great Nolan movies because they haven’t edited the fuck out of them…..the scenes have room to breathe. With the last 2 Batman movies in particular they feel like the product of some highly efficient, well oiled machine…..trained to the minute….not an ounce of fat on them. While this doesn’t prevent them from being enjoyable movie going experiences it does render them somewhat more disposable…like a catchy pop tune….here today and gone tomorrow. These movies won’t be seen as great in 50 years time. I expect the fanboys will still manage to make TDKR the greatest movie of all time on the IMDB though…..they’ve got to have something to occupy them until the Hobbit movie is released :O/.
knight rises is not that good its massages are built on huge plot-holes and these massages are overdone watch this:
Wrong, wrong, wrong-a-bong-bong. Christopher Nolen is a great director because no other director could use the same material and execute it as well. The plot of TDKR is dumb, yet the vast scope of the film and the giant spectacle somehow one forgive or ignore it. It actually felt like Nolan had control of an entire giant city and the practical effects are just mind blowing. The plot, however, is just as dumb as Drive where you’d except Vin Deisel to be the star if you only ever heard the story.
Another great example of a movie relying heavily on execution is Brick (another J.G.Levitt movie). It would very, very easy to get that script and fuck up the tone royally. That movie could have easily been extremely cheesy because of the “kids acting like Noir adults” conceit.
Inception is also not a “simple” movie. It’s executed so well that it’s easy to follow. Genius is often defined as making a simple solution for a very difficult problem and the simpleton will see Inception as just a dumb action movie – a rather nice backhanded complement. But, it just proves how well the execution works when things like recursion and time scale shifting are presented so simply. Watch the movie again and try to prove if Cobb is in reality and see if you think the movie is “simple”.
Yeah, but honestly, this David Combs guy is up to something. You have written a novel in comments already.
What is your point? You didn’t like the movie? You didn’t like Christopher Nolans take on Batman? Nitpicking small details is fun, and sometimes even clever, but this can be done with your favourite movie, too.
I enjoyed Nolans Batman despite all the plotholes. It was the Batman approach I always wanted to see after being a big fan of the 1989 Batman… and already hated the 2nd Burton.
It is far away from being flawless but it is the best we got so far, even if Bane wasn’t taken out by a gadget.. or was he.. wasn’t Catwoman shooting him or sthg.. with this Batbikey geary thing.. naah, but that was just lame, you’re right. Totally ruined the whole Nolan/Bale Arc for me as well. I’m done with that, professionally.
I know you’re just trying to be funny, but the real answer would be that Rich didn’t know who they were when he saved them.
Where’s your photo?
He didn’t know that they were VCR- Repairmen.
Blood transfusions don’t work that way.
I also love prestige, but I seem to be the only one who thinks that the machine didn’t work and that, even in the end, it all was just a trick.. by Jackman this time. The movie dosn’t back up my theory… but it would have made a lot more sense, that Jackman was tricked by David Bowie and Gollum first. The whole movie was about making a plausible illusion.. at all cost.. woudn’t it be much more plausible that there wasn’t such a thing as a cloning machine and the audience itself was tricked in the end.
Sorry to bring up such old topics, but this one haunts me eversince and I need on-screen backup for my theory…
Spells “messages” wrong, links to That Guy With the Glasses.
Why hello, small child.
Slower-paced?? Did you watch the film?? After the opening plane scene, there is like 30 minutes of snore-fest dialog scenes.
How about in The Dark Knight when the joker shoots up the party for Harvey Dent? Batman jumps out the window to save rachel and then…. cut to the next day? Wait a minute! What about the Joker and all those people upstairs? What, did he just leave??
How would seeing the Joker leave the party affect the story at all?
It was an awkward resolution to the scene. It’s less of a question of how seeing the Joker leaving the party would affect the story, but more why didn’t Batman go back up to stop him?
The Joker could have run out immediately after Batman started falling. This is a stupid complaint that I’ve heard way too many nit-picky assholes use.
This entire site is dedicated to reviews that are overly nitpicky.
I think the bigger problem is: how did Batman and Rachael survive the fall?
Wait, I forgot the scene wasn’t meant to be taken literally.
I’ve thought about that plot hole where the penniless Bruce Wayne
somehow gets from the country with the hole prison to the section of
Gotham that’s cut off from the mainland too. Perhaps he stole a plane
and then walked across the ice?
The thing though, is that this is present in other Batman works too.
Take the Justice League episode “Injustice For All” for example, where
Batman manages to escape from titanium chains without any explanation.
But that is part of his character – he’s the goddamn Batman (as we
Batman fanboys say). The blown bridges didn’t stop him. No explanation
is given why, but he did it. Sometimes it’s ridiculous, and some may
hate this part of the character.
But I can forgive it, as it wasn’t a big plot point. Just as in
Injustice For All, where the important part is that Batman is a genious
who can manipulate his enemies with his mind, Rises showed that Batman
could succeed in rising from his lowest point and return to save Gotham.
(If for example Batman had miraculously disarmed the bomb without
explanation, then I would say it’s a terrible plot hole/decision.) 🙂
Very fitting review. As to all the bitching about the “main plothole” which can inded be observed on many other sites to me it seemed kinda obvious from the editing that there WAS a sequence explaining his return which was cut out.
Just think of it: When Bruce Wayne emerges from the “pit” you get this great shot of that beautiful middle-eastern setting and in a way you EXPECT that there must be at least one more scene in this exact setting (which just doesn’t happen). But well, in a movie that’s almost three hours long a scene like that might very well have been so detrimental to the whole movie’s pacing that it just wouldn’t have worked out.
Well, I like to imagine Bruce Wayne just slipping into a plot hole on his waay to that middle-eastern city which turns out to be a quantum slipstream portal back to Gotham (also changing his attire on the way 1966-Batman-style).
This has nothing to do with “literal” – unrealistically surviving falls on trashbags etc. is just an action movie staple, it has nothing to do with symbolism or shit like that, and no one claims it to be.
The Nolan series has tried to be “realistic” in the sense of taking Batman into the real world, giving the premise, equipment etc. a “foot to stand on” so it doesn’t appear magical or comic book like.
I don’t remember anyone saying it was supposed to be hard science, or avoid any unrealistic Hollywood tropes in terms of combat or acceleration physics.
Your criticisms are getting petty and pathetic, and you’re just shooting off strawmen by this point.
There are NO plot holes in the story! You obviously can’t remember correctly because when Hansel dropped the bread crumbs, the birds DID eat all them, which is what caused them to get lost. They happened upon a candy house, which belonged to a witch and then Gretel murdered the witch. AIR FUCKING TIGHT.
Batman’s memory cloth cape partially deployed and slowed down their fall.
Thought the same! But the way the Grimm fairytales are, that very well could’ve been in one of them and it would’ve been one of the least significant absurdities in the whole work.
They’re all very formulaic and “tropey”, and mostly just ask the reader to go with it.
Says who? It’s left open-ended as to what John Blake does after the events of the movie. And even if he does take up Batman’s masked vigilante mantle, how do we know that he does it immediately? How do we know that he doesn’t contact Alfred Pennyworth at some point to ask what kind of training and preparation it would take to go down that path?
bum reviews are very exhausting….fts!
I’m a big fan of redlettermedia.com, but I’m a little disappointed with the fact that, while “Avatar” got slammed for its left-wing political messages, there was no mention of the equally overt right-wing messages in “The Dark Knight Rises.” This isn’t a political gripe, either; it’s a cinematic one. For the same reason that “Avatar”‘s heavy-handed messages took me out of the movie, so did TDKR’s. The villain is right out of Fox News: a Russian-accented foreign jihadist from a post-Soviet Arab country, who wants to bring down an American city through class warfare. I love redlettermedia.com, and will keep loving it, but I wish there was at least a *teensy* mention of this in their discussion. (Or did I miss it?) Thanks!
Mike and Jay like to talk about how JJ Abrams manipulates the audience. But Christopher Nolan is the master of this. Nolan can take a story which is mostly nonsense, with a villain who can’t be understood most of the time and turn it to some kind of superhero opera.
Even Mike (who usually focuses on plot holes) got swept up with the music and emotion of TDKR. He sounded like he was giving a Roger Ebert review; where nothing matters except a gut reaction. Mike’s gut told his brain to shut up and just let his emotions take over.
Regarding whether Bane is subordinate to Talia, I’ve seen the movie twice, and I don’t see any concrete evidence of that. Are we to assume that, because Talia has the detonator for the fusion bomb, she must be, and must have been, in command of Bane all along? Are we to assume that because we learn Talia’s motivation for her actions, and Bane’s connection to her, that Bane could have no independent motivation for his actions? That Bane is just “the muscle”? Because Talia got to give a “bad guy speech” near the end? All I see is further confirmation of at minimum a vital role for Talia in the overall plan. It doesn’t make her “the” mastermind, or boss.
What’s Talia’s part in the plan? Several years prior to the beginning of the movie, posing as a wealthy (probably legitimate) humanitarian (illegitimate) businesswoman, she enters into an arrangement with Wayne Enterprises to fund a clean energy fusion reactor for Gotham City, I suspect with knowledge that the reactor could become a weapon if someone figured out how to convert it. She continues to present herself as an unwavering ally to Bruce Wayne for at least 3 1/2 years after he shuts down the reactor project when Dr. Pavel figures out how to weaponize the reactor. She eventually gains Bruce Wayne’s trust in his hour of financial and company leadership crisis, in order to become CEO of Wayne Enterprises, and gain direct access to the reactor, by way security clearance. She also uses this clearance to disable the reactor core’s emergency shutdown measures, unbeknownst to Lucius Fox. After becoming CEO of Wayne Enterprises, she presents herself as a potential love interest for Bruce Wayne, and the keeper of his family’s legacy. Prior to the siege of Gotham City, she calls a Wayne Enterprises Board meeting, which Bane crashes, allowing Bane to use Talia (CEO), Lucius Fox (Chairman of the Board), and any additional board member (plus Dr. Pavel), to access the fusion reactor and weaponize it, before removing it from the core for transport. Talia is then able to freelance, and gets herself in position to signal Bane to her location to deal with the special forces guys who later sneak into Gotham City. She later volunteers to help Gordon, and is part of the operation to identify the truck carrying the fusion reactor, when Bane’s men show up to capture Gordon and several police officers, probably based on information from Talia. She later stays near Bane as bait for Batman. Later, when Batman has beaten and disabled Bane, Talia stabs Batman, fixes Bane’s mask apparatus, and reveals to Batman her true identity and the fact that she has the detonator to the fusion bomb. Finally, while Bane deals with Batman, Talia goes to try to secure the bomb truck to make sure it detonates in the city. In the parts of the foregoing that we do see, we never see Talia issuing a command to Bane.
What’s Bane’s part in the plan? First, he’s already developed a business relationship with Wayne Enterprises Board member Daggett by leading a coupe in a central African country to secure some valuable mineral rights for Daggett. That may not have been part of the Gotham City plan, but it came in useful for what we know was part of the plan with Daggett in Gotham City. Bane kidnapped Dr. Pavel and faked his death so that no one would be looking for him in the 6 months prior to his reappearance in Gotham City. With Daggett’s financing and construction resources in Gotham City (due to arrangement with Daggett to get him control of Wayne Enterprises), Bane and his men were able to rig all of the explosives throughout Gotham City, storm the Gotham City Stock Exchange and use a computer program to bankrupt Bruce Wayne (driving him to Talia for salvation), and break into the Wayne Enterprises R&D armory. The explosives were ultimately responsible for trapping most of Gotham City’s police officers in the sewers, likely killing the Mayor, and cutting off most of the standard transportation routes in and out of Gotham City during the siege. The weapons and vehicles in the armory made it a lot easier for Bane to maintain control of the city. Bane (with some subtle assistance from Talia) forced Fox, board member who resembles John Hurt, and Dr. Pavel to give him control of a weaponized fusion reactor. Bane defeated Batman in combat, captured him, and imprisoned him for months. Bane freed the prisoners of Black Gate prison, and encouraged the citizens of Gotham, criminal and non-criminal, to rise up and take their city. Bane set up the court of death or exile, and Bane’s men carried out sentences. Bane left one bridge in working order, so that his men could get supplies into the city as the siege continued for months. Bane was the public face of the siege. And it’s been asked, why do Bane’s men follow him? I don’t know. What was it about Fidel Castro? Or Idi Amin? Of note, we never see Bain issuing a command to Talia.
Overall, Talia took care of the more personal, covert details, and Bane took care of the big, showy stuff. Talia was hardly inconsequential, or necessarily the “big boss”. But despite that, what could Bane’s motivation possibly have been for everything, other than loyalty to Talia? Maybe it had to do with his rejection by Ra’s al Ghul and the League of Shadows, and Bruce Wayne’s acceptance by, and betrayal of the same. It could be that Bane was simultaneously in it out of loyalty to Talia, a desire to succeed where Ra’s al Ghul had failed, and to destroy Bruce Wayne for the same reason that the Biblical Cain slew Abel.
Not sure if your comment is supposed to be a complaint or what. You’re basically just reiterating exactly what they said in their discussion.
Except for all the reviews that aren’t. RLM has gone out of their way at this point to separate themselves from nitpicking, constantly complaining nerds (positive reviews of Prometheus, Hunger Games, etc).
Avatar didn’t get slammed at all.
So dialogue = snorefest to you? That’s depressing.
Blip tv just won’t work on my firefox for some reason, really want to watch this.
There’s a link to a youtube version right under the video player.
Walker’s own review is I think what was linked to.
Jay’s beard is embarrassing to humans as a whole.
I hate to say this, but if you read the novelization, there IS a moment where we see Joker leaving the party…
Aw, screw it. It was an awkward cut. It happens.
I really loved the point you guys made about how some movies can work and can be successful despite the plot not being as neatly tied together as it should be.
Because while some movies are all about the intricate workings of the plot, others, like this film, presents a more character-driven story that focuses primarily on the message/emotion.
It wasn’t about the bomb or even Bane really. It was about the disintegration of society, unshackled and stripped away from the foundations of law and order that the world functions on. It wasn’t about how Batman got back to Gotham. It was about why he was back in the first place– what he discovered about himself and his role in the city before managing to return.
I’m surprised by how much I didn’t mind the little, minor ‘plot holes’. It honestly was a genuinely enjoyable movie and one which has, personally for me, brought about a satisfying end to the saga.
these guys remind me of the london olympics mascots.
I liked ‘Following’, but I never thought he’d end up being a comic book movie directer back then.
You sound like Brecht whining about Stanislavski.
What the hell is going on with you guys? In what bizzaro world is DKR spectacular and Spiderman 4 is inferior? The two are much closer to each other in the average zone.
There hasn’t been any Batman development since Batman Begins. Bruce Wayne is boring, always has been. By the end of DKR, do you even care about Catwoman or Robin? Too many characters, too little development, too much contrivance.
At least Spiderman 4, with its lame LIzard and hokey plot, still had a better Peter Parker (ie, didn’t lose his powers because he felt badly about MJ, didn’t go Gothic and dance around like a douchebag), and had a better, more vulnerable Spiderman.
Sure it did.
No, I’m attacking feeble excuses that are being used to defend this movie/series.
If Nolan is striving for realism then there is no excuse to have park your brain at the door moments where characters survive seemingly impossible feats(such as falling from a skyscraper and landing on the roof of a taxi). You can’t have a film that’s so pedantic simply suspend its own formula during moments of high tension for dramatic affect. It works in the moment, but it makes the sum of the parts less cogent, especially on rewatch. I’m not ever going to buy the excuse that the flms are going for more of a emotional response, because I see little emotion in these films. I see a film series that is as black as night, with characters that are barely fleshed out who perform impossible feats while at the same time it tries to have a real-world explanation for everything, which is its ultimate undoing.
Nolan is trying to have his cake and eat it too.
What about the blood transfusion at the beginning?
Yeah, when I imagine peter Parker, he’s always skateboarding to Coldplay. Spot on.
Spoilers I guess.Why isn’t anyone complaining about the retarded short amount of time it took him to recover from having his fucking back broken? Didn’t ruin the whole movie, but I’m just saying…
Aww, what happened to all of Plinkett’s awesomely shitty furniture?
You said you liked “The Dark Knight”? What a disapointment… after all your profound reviews I would have expected a better judgement from you.
YOU THICK FUCKS DIDN’T TALK ABOUT JOSEPH-GORDON LEVITT/ROBIN. ie: ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT CHARACTERS IN THE FILM. 0/10 YOU FAILED.
He’s one of favorite actors, I would have love to know your opinion.
I donated money to Red Letter last week. Not even the standard “thank you” form letter email. You guys kind of suck a little.
batman didnt win the first fight because he didnt have the will to win, eye of the tiger style, because of rachels death and alfred leaving. when he fought bane 2nd time he had trained with apollo and jumped the ledge showing he got the eye of the tiger back and thus knocked bane out in round 2.
Nolan was completely subservient to the studio. They released that story about suits wanting DiCaprio as the Riddler so you would assume he wasn’t. And why go to that trouble, you ask? Simple: to cover up that the inclusion of the congressman’s ugly shirt was planned long ago for purposes that can only be described as … sinister.
Just making an observation about Mike’s inconsistency. He almost always talks about the logic of movie plots but he doesn’t think that the plot of TDKR needs to be logical? And this is because he was manipulated by the emotion of the story. He didn’t seem to be very aware of that. He became the emotional film reviewer; ‘it just felt good’. Someone who picks apart Star Wars/Star Trek for hours and he can’t focus on TDKR story? That = a disappointing review imo.
Even though I really liked the film, it had some really weird problems that could have been fixed pretty easily.
For example, the way that John Blake figured out Batman’s identity was just so ridiculous and corny. They could had that as a part of the reason why he was able to discover Batman’s identity, maybe it made him suspicious of Bruce and later gather more clues on the subject, but to have him find out that way was just way too easy.
Another example is the fight between the police and Bane’s army. So the police just run directly towards Bane’s men, who have automatic weapons. What made things worse was that only a few policemen were shot. That could have been fixed very easily if they just had Batman launch some stun grenades into Bane’s forces before the police made their charge.
Have you seen TDKR yet? Jesus, it *beep* sucked. It sucked so bad, that I
need to talk about this movie because I think this was perhaps one of
the stupidest films I have ever seen. I see people confused about the
plot and some details so I’m going to take you through it bit by bit,
logic holes and all. It’s not all bad. There’s some good stuff in here
but it’s basically a sh** sandwich. So here we go…
open up the movie with the plane hijacking which is our introduction to
Bane. They pull off a Bond-centric stunt and kidnap nuclear bomb guy and
it was pretty cool even if Bane sounded like my grandfather on a
respirator. So far so good.
Then we’re at the Wayne residence.
And it’s time for what Nolan does best. Exposition baby!! That train is
never late. Let’s get started. It’s Harvey Dent Day!! Celebration of the
Dent Act which is keeping Gotham’s worst criminals behind bars with no
parole. Gordon is bumbling and stumbling trying to come up with some
kind words for Gotham’s deceased psycho DA. We learn through convenient
conversation from unnecessary new character #1 (Foley) that Gordon’s
wife took the kids and left him and he won’t be commissioner too much
longer because they’re planning to dump him. Foley is obviously an
ambitious little weasel and he’s like Gordon is about to get canned?
Ch-ching!! Why the audience needs to know this I have no idea because
nothing ever comes of this info. Miranda Tate (unnecessary new character
#2) is still trying to see Bruce Wayne for some big project. Alfred
tells her to step off.
We also find out Bruce Wayne is a Uncle
Fester crippled recluse who never comes out of Wayne Manor. Why? He’s
been retired as Batman for 8 years still brooding over the loss of
Rachel even though they had the chemistry of Tom & Jerry in the
previous two films.
Selina Kyle is busy masquerading as a maid
and stealing pearls belonging to Bruce’s mom which also contains his
fingerprints (for a later thread in this convoluted story). Bruce goes
Hawkeye on Selina with a bow and arrow and they have a nice chat before
she takes John Kreese’s advice and sweeps the leg on that cripple Wayne
and hops out the window.
Bruce is intrigued by this chick so he
goes to the batcave which looks like it’s been rebuilt even though
Batman has been “retired” for 8 years. This scene is basically there to
give Bruce his one minute of doing detective work. Alfred finds Bruce in
the bat cave and gives the same old tired monologue about how he wishes
Bruce would end up as just a regular Joe with a nice family blah blah
blah. And to top it off Nolan shows Alfred’s little dream sequence where
he sees Bruce in a cafe with his family. Nolan has the subtlety of a
sledgehammer to the face so as soon as I saw this scene I knew it was
going to come into play later in the film.
Bruce’s fingerprints to Dagget (unnecessary character #3 AKA plot
device) who’s working with Bane. He’s planning to set up Bruce to lose
his wealth later on in the movie in an attempt to take over Wayne
Enterprises. However, Catwoman gets double-crossed and doesn’t get what
she wants in return which is the macguffin device known as
“StartYourLifeOver”. No, that’s not it. I think it was called
“LifeEraser”. No…it’ll come to me later. Anyway this ridiculous little
device is supposed to wipe out your entire criminal history from the
computers. However, if authorities have a paper file on you that’s two
inches thick with your history and photos that little device isn’t going
to help much. Anyhow, Catwoman tricks Dagget’s thugs into calling the
cops who show up right away. She plays victim and screams her head off
as they tear up the place. She escapes.
During the melee the
action somehow goes into the sewer with Gordon being caught and taken to
Bane and his little army. I can’t remember how because I was a bit
bored by then and ruffling my popcorn trying to find the ones with
butter. Bane isn’t happy that his goons brought Gordon to his pad so he
starts breaking the necks of his troops like Darth Vader…except
without the Force. Gordon is like *beep* this and rolls into the sewer
where the clairvoyant John Blake (unnecessary character #4 who steals
Batman’s movie) arrives just in time to find him coming out.
of the clairvoyant John Blake he stops by Bruce’s place to clue him in
that he knows he’s Batman. How? Because they’re both orphans and Blake
could read his face. No, I’m not kidding. That’s the reason lol. I
*beep* chortled in the theater when he said it. Blake tells Bruce that
Batman is needed once again.
To speed this story along. Bruce
tracks down Selina at Miranda Tate’s party. They dance and chat it up
and Bruce takes his mom’s pearls back. To return the favor she steals
his car and goes on a joyride. Bruce also visits Fox at Wayne
enterprises to talk about the new macguffin device that can be turned
into a nuclear weapon which plays a role later in the film. While Bruce
is there he gets a look at some new toys that have been in development.
Most notably “The Bat” which as we find out later in the film any person
can apparently drive and operate with no training whatsoever. Even
Lucius has taken it for a spin on occasion when traffic is just too
Bruce goes back to the bat cave and tries to figure
things out. Luckily ex-CIA operative Alfred conveniently knows the scoop
on Bane’s history and of course spoonfeeds the audience of his origin.
What, you really thought Alfred was just a butler? Cmon lol. This guy
can get the info and motivations about anyone just by snapping his
fingers. I wouldn’t be surprised at this point if Alfred knew who killed
Back to Bane. He and his goons attack the stock
exchange in an attempt to bankrupt Bruce Wayne (using his fingerprints)
and they succeed. During their escape they use hostages strapped to
their motorbikes to get away. The cops are chasing them and one of the
cops actually says shoot the tires LOL. I’m laughing about that because
if they shoot the tires and the bike falls I’m pretty sure the hostages
strapped to the front and back of those bikes are going to incur some
major head damage when they wipe out since their arms are tied and they
can’t protect themselves lol. The chase leads to a tunnel which suddenly
starts going dark and you guessed it!! Batman is back and comes out of
the darkness on his cool Batpod. The senior cop tells his little young,
flunky partner “BOY, you’re in for a show tonight!!”. Actually, no. Not
much of a show at all. Batman rides his batpod and really does nothing.
Ambitious weasel Foley who was chasing Bane at first suddenly turns his
attention to the bigger fish Batman and wants to take him down even more
than Bane to make Gordon look bad. So the whole police force chases
Batman. Batman drives down a dark alley and the cops conveniently stop
their pursuit (why? I don’t know) and think they have Bats surrounded.
Suddenly we see “The Bat” rise from the alley where it was conveniently
placed (and not a single person in the city saw it fly there and noticed
it was parked). That thing must have stealth. Batman escapes of course
and the “show” is over.
Back to the Wayne residence where Bruce
is getting cocky and underestimating Bane. Alfred in one last ditch
effort to stop Bruce admits he destroyed Rachel’s letter and that she
chose Dent over him. Bruce says low blow man and Alfred once again pours
on the monologue and waterworks like we haven’t heard this sh** enough
times already. By now I’m getting annoyed with the crying and just want
Bruce to kindly tell Alfred to STFU. Bruce says nothing damaging but
Alfred leaves for good voluntarily and Bruce is on his own. Good
riddance I say.
To make matters worse Fox informs Bruce that
he’s broke now and they make plans for unknown Miranda Tate to take over
Wayne Enterprises just to stick it to Dagget. However, they must inform
Tate about the macguffin nuclear device sitting in the basement and
that it’s not a toy to be played with. If it was that dangerous they
could have just saved time and dismantled the thing but that would have
been too logical. A little while later Tate goes to visit Bruce at his
home for some reason. The lights go out since Bruce has no money to pay
his electricity bill. She starts the fireplace up and yeah Stevie Wonder
could see where this is headed. Bruce and Ms. Tate get it on and that’s
Bruce is feeling spry after gettin’ some and sets out to
meet Catwoman to track down Bane. However, before he does that Nolan
tells him to dress up as Batman and climb onto to something really high
so the Batman fanboys can get their obligatory shot of him looking over
the city with his cape flapping in the wind. Batman stares out for
awhile and then says “Good enough?”. Nolan nods approvingly. The very
next scene has Batman in the sewer meeting with Catwoman asking her to
take him to Bane. A short stroll 20 seconds later and they’re in Bane’s
lair. Catwoman locks Batman in the UFC cage with Bane (one of the few
cool parts of the movie) and he proceeds to thrash Batman while talking
trash in his old man, high brow, raspy Darth Vader voice the whole time.
Batman uses all the tricks at his disposal but Bane has seen all of
this crap before since he was also trained by Ra’s. He beats Batman like
he stole something and breaks his back over his knee. Catwoman looks on
with the guilty conscience.
Meanwhile the entire police force
goes underground to search for Bane and his men. Yeah, seriously. They
send the ENTIRE force down in the sewer. Sounds stupid? Because it is
lol. Bane clairvoyantly planned for this kind of convenient stupidity
and had bombs planted to trap the cops underground and to also blow the
bridges. And while he was at it decided to blow up the whole Pittsburgh,
errrr, Gotham Steelers team as well. If that doesn’t get the citizens
of Gotham on your side nothing will lol. It gets better. He says there’s
an atomic bomb in the city and it will be detonated if anyone tries to
leave Gotham or anyone sneaks in. You’d think there would be mass panic
in the streets right? People saying *beep* it and fleeing for their
lives? Maybe try to hop on a boat? Nope. All goes according to plan and
millions of Gotham’s citizens hole up in their homes. It’s a ghost town.
How does Bane’s little army keep tabs on the whole city? How do the
citizens of Gotham get food and everything for months on end? How does
the city continue to operate? Who the *beep* knows? No one lays out any
rules. The underlying message of this far-fetched plan is loud and
clear…this movie is starting to suck.
Bane also finds time to
drop Bruce off at the Lazarus Pit in some other country and tells him
that he intends to give Gotham hope before killing them all. Yeah,
everything he’s doing to that city really inspires the people with hope,
right? lol. Anyhow Bruce’s punishment has to be more severe so Bane
leaves him there with built-in cable TV and snacks so Bruce can watch
the destruction of Gotham helplessly.
Back to Gotham where Bane
is now on a loudspeaker telling the city of Gotham that they’ve been
lied to. He pulls out a letter written by Gordon and gives the details
in fire and brimstone about DA Harvey Dent. Why the city of Gotham would
believe a madman who blew up their bridges, trapped their cops
underground, blew up their football team and threatened them with an
atomic bomb is beyond me. Bane tries to give them even more hope by
releasing their criminals into the street. Who in the hell writes this
stuff? lol. I guess Mr. Logic took a break from this movie for awhile. I
hope he makes it back because this movie is getting a little
Blake is disappointed in Gordon for not telling the
truth about Dent. Gordon snaps back defensively and that’s that. Blake
starts doing a lot of detective stuff because he seems to be the only
cop left in Gotham. He takes over the movie for awhile while Batman is
out of commission. It’s basically “John Blake Begins”.
the pit Bruce is getting his back rehabilitated by the resident witch
doctor who knocks Bruce’s back into place Looney Tunes style and strings
him up to heal. The movie speeds ahead (in a Nolan movie 3 minutes
equals 3 months) and Bruce is back doing pushups and situps in no time
trying to get out of the pit with the locals chanting gibberish cheering
him on. The third or fourth try is a charm (I lost count by then) and
Bruce finally he gets out. He looks around and is in the middle of
nowhere except a village in the far distance. Then Bruce is back in
Gotham asking Selina Kyle for help and…wait a minute, what the *beep*
?!? How did Bruce get back into Gotham with no money and no resources
and with Gotham supposedly locked down? Secondly, how did Bruce find
Selina in that HUGE city in the first place? And why is Bruce asking for
the help of a woman who assisted in bankrupting him and set him up to
get beaten within an inch of his life? Mr. Logic? Are you there? Oh
that’s right he left a long *beep* time ago and apparently isn’t coming
back. Selina tells Bruce there’s nothing else he can do for the people
of Gotham. She’s getting the hell outta dodge and he should come with
Meanwhile the locals have been restless and kicking the
sh** out of the rich. They hold mock trials and sentence the Mitt Romney
types to walk over the frozen ice where it eventually collapses and
they comically fall in. Gordon and his crew of Merrymen are caught and
sentenced to death by Jonathan Crane (aka Scarecrow) who has nothing
better to do these days. As Gordon and crew are walking to their
eventual death you’ll never guess who appears? Batman, who despite his
heavy armor can walk across the ice just fine with no problem
whatsoever. He also conveniently knew where to find Gordon JUST IN THE
NICK OF TIME. That’s not all. Batman is also a budding artist. He gives
Gordon a flare and tells him to go ahead and light it. Gordon need not
worry about melting the ice…it’s Bat-tested. So Gordon throws the
flare on the ice and it starts a line of fire (I’m laughing as I’m
typing this because it’s so dumb) and it reveals a HUGE fire logo of
Batman’s symbol. Not only did that probably take hours to do but it also
ruins the element of surprise. Hans Zimmer’s score blares the Batman
music for this monumental feat and I keep telling myself it’s going to
get better…it’s going to get better. Sad to say, it doesn’t.
by now this movie is so far gone it just doesn’t matter anymore and I
think Nolan knows it. I honestly believe he’s trolling the audience and
the critics just to see how much crap he can get away with. So back to
the movie. Bruce conveniently found Selina Kyle, conveniently found
Gordon just in time to save him. What’s one more time going to hurt?
John Blake, you’re up!! Batman saves Blake just in time from Bane’s crew
and for some reason tells Blake to wear a *beep* mask. Jesus H. Christ
Nolan can you telegraph the ending of this movie any more?!?
cops get free and they all exit their sewer-dwelling existence as if
they’ve been doing Bic shaving commercials. Ambitious weasel Foley has
turned to last minute good guy after Gordon convinces him to lead the
police charge against Bane’s men. The unarmed cops run straight into
Bane’s mercenaries who are armed with tanks and automatic rifles. Batman
once again comes out of nowhere in “The Bat” at the last second to aid
in the charge. I guess Bane’s guys run out of ammmo after a few seconds
(they can’t shoot worth a piss anyhow) because it just becomes a battle
royale of fists flying everywhere. Batman makes his way through the
crowd practically untouched and comes face to face with Bane for the
rematch while the chaos ensues all around them. The final fight scene of
Enter the Dragon instantly comes to mind with Bruce Lee about to battle
Han lol. Batman and Bane go at it and Batman targets Bane’s mask. It
seems he can’t breathe when that mask is continually getting hit and
Batman gets the upper hand. Batman starts screaming in his gruff comical
Bat-voice asking Bane the whereabouts of the trigger to detonate the
bomb. He’s about to do Bane dirty when Miranda Tate (aka Talia Al Ghul)
shanks Batman in the back and reveals her true identity. It’s supposed
to be a big plot twist but by this time I’m like who gives a rat’s
ass?!? Talia (like father, like daughter) talks about her and Bane’s
history and monologues her whole plan to a stunned Batman. While she’s
flapping her gums Gordon is playing action hero and manages to plant a
convenient device to block the neutron bomb from being detonated. Talia
finishes her life story and hits the button waiting for the explosion.
Nothing happens. Her plan has been foiled…curses!!
leaves Bane to finish the job on Batman but Catwoman sneaks up on
everyone with a suddenly silent Batpod and just in the nick of time
(yeah, it’s a running theme) saves Batman and blows Bane back to the
stone ages. Batman gets his 2nd wind despite having a serious knife
wound and chases Talia down in “The Bat” with Catwoman assisting on the
Batpod. Talia crashes the truck and starts the typical villain death
monologue. Rather than get the bomb out of Gotham ASAP Batman, Gordon,
and Catwoman stand there comically listening before she dies one of the
most horribly acted deaths I’ve ever seen. Batman looks at his watch and
figures he has a bit more time to waste with Gordon and Catwoman before
he finally starts towing the bomb out to sea away from Gotham. We see a
closeup of Batman’s face as he’s flying out to sea and the bomb finally
explodes. Gotham is saved and it’s the end of Batman….or is it?
everything is wrapped up nice and neat. We see Bruce Wayne’s funeral
with Alfred crying once again that he failed the family. I know it’s
supposed to be sad and all but I’m sick of Alfred’s sh**…sorry. Wayne
Manor basically becomes an orphanage. Batman gets a really cool statue
in his honor. We find out John Blake’s name is actually “Robin” in the
most cringe-worthy, eye-roll inducing way possible. Gordon is seen
checking out what looks like the new Bat, errr Blake-signal. Fox learns
the autopilot was fixed by Bruce Wayne and he gets a knowing expression.
Then we see Alfred in a scene that looks just like his cafe dream that
he had earlier in the movie. He looks over and sees Bruce with Selina
Kyle. Bruce smiles and Alfred smiles back….Batman is ALIVE!! I sure as
hell didn’t see that coming. The final shot of the movie is Blake
finding the Batcave signaling he’s the new Batman even though he’s had
no training and no wealth whatsoever. I can’t wait to see him get his
ass kicked. Cue the credits.
What do you mean he doesn’t seem to be aware of that? He specifically states that that’s the case!
That’s not how donations work, guy.
Again, we’re talking different categories of “realism” here.
Movies like Commando or Shoot Em Up are completely fantastical and absurd, as far as what actually happens in the shoot-outs and even the plot – but they do take place in the real world.
Someone else could’ve easily tried to make Batman into that – made him some kind of smarmy James Bond like guy, with entirely out-there gadgets, shock wave immunity and way too easygoing attitude in dangerous situations, fighting megalomaniacal terrorists.
BUT, it would take place in a real city that isn’t made of trippy cathedrals from a nightmare and is populated by normal people rather than a bunch of hammy, theatralic freaks, each with a nickname.
The realism level would be low by virtue of taking place in such a “rool of cool” universe, but the BATMAN ELEMENT, the COMIC BOOK ELEMENT, would be integrated into that universe, and not cause additional detachment from reality.
That’s exactly what the Nolan Batman movies seem to be – except they’re not aiming for frivolous absurdity like Shoot Em Up or Die Another Day, but mildly believable action thriller material like, uh dunno, Die Hard or something.
The action in them isn’t necessarily realistic; the physics are good enough for the average film goer, but not good enough for the “trashbags don’t work that way from that height” folks – although still nowhere as stretching as the AOTC chase.
The dialogue doesn’t even try to be Iron Man or Alien – so the “realism” obviously doesn’t apply to that, either.
BUT, the BAT ELEMENTS. The city isn’t full of freaks – anyone trying to act eccentric is initially met with disbelief and ridicule, until they show they’re in charge (and even then); Batman isn’t Batman because, well, it’s all dark and broody, but because he’s consciously creating a theater act to make an impression on the normal population; the technology is explained away as high-tech gadgetry, and that’s good enough, don’t ask any further questions.
Also no revolving door policy as far as death or Arkham goes, but then there probably wasn’t time for that anyway.
The tone generally lacks “camp”, and the atmosphere seems to imply a real city rather than something from a modern fairytale like in the Burton films.
THAT’S where these movies are “realistic”. They take the Batman tropes, deconstruct them and put them into the “real world”.
If they also claimed to be realistic in terms of action technicalities, then I guess they kinda failed in that regard – but one doesn’t necessitate the other is what I’m saying, and what you desperately fail to understand.
Am I the only one who thinks the idea of capturing almost EVERY SINGLE policeman in sewers for MONTHS is incredibly retarded? Hasn’t Gotham got manholes? What did those policemen eat, if everyone else was starving? How come they didn’t drown in their own shit? How can they all be well nourished, in shape and crystal clean after spending months in sewers?
Unfortunately, this movie is full of such retarded ideas, and since I’m not a retard, I didn’t like it very much.
RLM hates Amazing Spider-Man, likes Dark Knight Rises.
Doug Walker likes ASM, hates DKR.
I like both films and both reviewers.
BUT HOW DID HE GET SUCH PERFECT SEATING, HMMM?
No concrete evidence that Talia is subordinate to Bane?
I look beyond the story of the film. Riddle me this, RW – after Talia is revealed, what cool thing or things does Bane have to do? Nothing. One rather cheesy line that amounts to “bad guy gloats as he’s about to kill hero, gets killed himself”. There’s not even a good twenty seconds of Bane kicking a wounded Batsy around the lobby so we can anticipate a little “how’s our hero gonna get out of this one?”
One gloat line, shot, dead. Never seen or heard in movie again. Movie has presented a new villain to you, and new villain has better motivation, so movie has moved on. The nemesis you thought you had turned out to be a red herring.
All that other motivation and stuff that you’re injecting into it is just that – you reading stuff into it. That’s fine, and I’m glad you enjoyed it. As I have said, when the story’s good enough, you fill in the gaps yourself.
I just think that for me the bait-and-switch was emotionally unsatisfying. I wanted more of an arc out of Bane. That said, I have now also seen the movie twice, and I enjoyed the film as a whole much better the second time, when I knew what was coming and could look for clues from Talia. I thought the most telling moment was when Gordon trusts her with the Geiger counter and all she has to do is flat out lie about which truck the bomb’s in.
No straw man intended. You called the “rising” moment of the film “without danger or excitement”. I simply pointed out that climbing out of the pit was both dangerous and exciting even to non-Batman fans.
Not sure about an “Appeal to Girlfriend” fallacy. We could talk about how dumb I thought Catwoman’s high heels were, and how I’ve heard at least one girl talk about how cool they were and how empowering, and I don’t really give a shit and still think they didn’t belong in such a serious take on Batman.
My point was that it was an example of a scene from a great movie, and it didn’t need to be beholden to the comic book versions of Batman. I could also cite the fact that non-Trek fans still dig Star Trek 2, such a cool movie that it is. We haven’t seen Magic Mike and I’m not sure what point you’re trying to make.
You end your post with four examples of scenes you would have cut in sacrifice to your need to see Batman do more Batman things in this Batman movie. One by one:
Blake and the kids on the school bus gives Blake something to do that isn’t beating people up during the climax of the film. This is important because of where he ends up at the end. More importantly, showing you children and their reactions to the events happening is an easy way (and considering that this is a superhero movie, not a cheap one) to provide the audience with some stakes to get them emotionally invested. This is something that each of Nolan’s films has done toward the end, to varying degrees. In each film’s third act, a child is witness to the fantastic, apocalyptic events that are occurring, and this helps to ground the far-out nature of the films (this ain’t no theoretical abstract scenario; people have to live in Gotham and some of them are children) and provide the audience with a nice emotional hook. So it was with Katie Holmes’ little friend and, much more effectively, so it was with Gordon’s boy at the climax of TDK. And so it was with a school bus full of kids. If you feel that a school bus full of kids in danger is Nolan being too sappy or melodramatic, then I would respond by pointing out that it’s a Batman movie.
Joker getting shot – (that’s Full Metal Jacket Joker, mind you) – yeah, his entire purpose in the story was to die there. Why? For the same reason that Larry Kasdan wanted to kill Han Solo in Return of the Jedi – war needs consequences. The finale of TDKR is war, an “all-out assault”on Bane with an Army. There needs to be at least one casualty, and it needs to be someone that you’ve known throughout this story. The Mayor’s already dead, Blake has business at the end, Fox is too old to fight, Gordon has a whole other thing to do important to the story. Who would you pick? Also, his death shot is like five seconds of film, at most. I wouldn’t argue that it’s worth cutting his entire character (who has other uses as an expository sounding board in the beginning, and as a replacement for Gordon after Gordon gets hurt, and as an example of a coward who would rather hide until Gordon’s “Get involved speech”, which I would say needs to be there for the audience and also illustrates Gordon’s character via contrasting example) for the sake of one more scene of Batman being a ninja (which we’ve scene plenty of over the course of two prior installments and this movie).
Talia – I’ve beaten that topic to death elsewhere.
Bomb – if 50 men guard it, the Air Force knows where to send their surgical air strike. Even if that doesn’t work because it’s unstable or whatever, it’s inspiring creativity. From the people of Gotham even – hey, why don’t we all storm that bomb and push it into the sea? Fuck it, we’re living in martial law under a crazy madman anyway…
Instead he keeps the bomb mobile and plays a shell game, which requires like 3 drivers and frees up those 50 men to patrol and guard the borders. And the cops. He doesn’t have infinite manpower. Bottom line – the threat of an anonymous citizen blowing the bomb is supposed to be what prevents anyone from tampering with it. The shell game is more or less there to keep everybody honest. Can’t make it too easy to call Bane’s bluff, after all.
The only version I’m familiar with is from Batgirl: Year One by Scott Beatty. Which was AWESOME. Actually, there was an issue that just focused on the villains Killer Moth and Firefly, and it was far and away the best ish of the entire series.
That’s absolutely true. Batman has secret passages (and I’ve heard that he tells that to Selena, but I don’t specifically remember). My only issue is that I would have wanted to see it happen, especially if he has more secret “batcaves”. It reminds me of how he got into Hong Kong, and Nolan handled that pretty well, so I want to see how Bruce Wayne gets into a miltarized Gotham.
“It’s like Poetry!”.
I’m a huge fan of Edward Norton, but that movie dragged like a dead body.
It’s not meant to be taken literally. It’s very Lynchian in its execution.
This one reminded me of Burton’s Batman movies in a way Dark Knight and Batman Begins never did. For example, Batman and Catwoman became partners REALLY quick, making it seem like Bruce was becoming headstrong (which was a major point of the movie, as he tried to find and stop Bane). Then the campy dialogue- it was surprising after TDK because Bale has been so serious while in costume. It was almost strange for Catwoman too because her intro scene (at the trade-off for the fingerprints) was almost like a Joker scene. Later, she makes a quip after blasting Bane into a wall with an explosive.
Overall, I liked it. It was strange that Batman got with Catwoman so quick after TDK was all about whether he can trust Harvey Dent (and maybe he shouldn’t have). Perhaps it wasn’t his brain doing the talking, and Catwoman was a more vulnerable than former incarnations (hence, she runs away with Bruce Wayne at the end). But it did remind of Burton and of The Animated Series, and I never saw a scene that couldn’t exist in one of those amazing series.
Dude 10 SECONDS just to explain how he got in. Show him using the rope and canteen as a grappling hook – oh wait, he left the rope behind. Show him running a crazy-long distance …with his spinal injury …why are we watching this movie again?
I hope you understand how the voice was put in the movie- I’m sure Tom Hardy said his lines during the scenes, but the movie voice had to be made in a sound studio. In TDK, even Batman’s voice was altered. But with so much Imax in this movie, they can’t use the set’s audio over the loud Imax cameras, so they have to go back and install every bit of audio in post-production.
Anyway, Bane’s voice was amazing.
“If they also claimed to be realistic in terms of action technicalities, then I guess they kinda failed in that regard”
That’s my entire point.
I may get some hate with this, but I think this one was A LOT like the Avengers. I liked Avengers when I saw it, but I went again and it’s not very entertaining to me, and the characters are really flat. DKR also uses a lot of characters in varying relationships, a LARGE set (mostly filmed in the Big Apple, too) with explosions, flying, and even A NUKE. But I feel like DKR beat Avengers at it’s own game. Plus, almost all of DKR was actually filmed with practical effects (most of the time, the Batwing was actually in the air with cables) so it gave a much stronger sense of destruction.
i love how these guys make a living picking apart movies for their plot holes and inconsistencies but these particular films are above such criticisms because they are about “feelings”. i enjoy this site and these reviewers but c’mon, these are blockbuster action flicks, not art films.
Yeah, it shows Heath running to the side after Batman jumps out the window. But we’re never meant to know what Joker is doing, we never get insight into his plans until they’ve taken they’re toll on Gotham.
TDKR almost made Batman the mystery, which was strange after TDK always focused on Batman. However, this one was more like Gotham’s point of view- he first appears chasing Bane through the streets, disappears after he’s broken, reemerges in the Batwing to defend the police, and finally vanishes in a nuclear explosion. It’s a very interesting way to tell the story, even if I would’ve liked to see more of the events.
He obviously rode a shark across the ice, using his shark mind control spray (his gadgets have become much more advanced)
Microscopic Bacteria? WHAT THE FUUUUUCK?!
It seemed completely fitting that Bane’s voice is up front, and I’m not joking with this point. I believe that he talks so loud so that other people will try and talk back and he can kill them. He likes to break people, and I always believed that Tom Hardy could kill the other people himself.
I still don’t know if we’re supposed to take the ending at face value. I think Alfred was only seeing what he wanted to see and Batman dies. I know that the pearls are listed as missing. I’ve only watched it once, so maybe when I watch it a second time I’ll feel differently, but I don’t think he lives. What’s more likely: Nolan does a cheat and Batman wasn’t really piloting the thing seconds before a nuke went off, or he was returning to the thing Ra’s said when he appeared before Bruce talking about how there are many forms of immortal life? Why is everybody so quick to say that Bruce could not appear before Alfred, when we saw Ra’s do the exact same thing minutes earlier?
Dear Matt and Trey: Thank you again for an enjoyable movie review of “The Dark Knight Rises.”
Too bad. I thought this review was about the new Batman porn-parody…
Oh dear – in your dream world, actors, who pay personal trainers to give
them “killer abs”, and who are mostly entitled rich pussies, are
Blockbuster action flicks are a lot about feelings, though. Art films is where complicated symbolism and stuff like that comes in. 😉
Well bad for them, but if you watch the movies, that’s not at any point the impression it makes.
From the get go, it’s a rather formulaic origin story, with characters dropping Chekov’s Wisdoms right and left for Bruce to remember later on.
You see him fending off 7, okay 6 muscular prisoners without any further problems, engage in a prolonged sword duel with a master swordsman (how long do you think real swordwights go until someone is injured?), and what was that how he “defeated” the confused ninjas?
Where do they explain how he can just appear out of nowhere and snatch off the drug dealers one by one like a magician?
Do they justify every gadget he uses with hard science?
Oh, and that evaporator thing… it’s “sciency” and that’s really all it is, I wonder how they wanted to pass that for “completely grounded in realism”.
I don’t really care about whatever bullshit the creators said about the movie – it’s pretty obvious what it tries to be and is, and in the genre it’s in, action tropes somewhat bending technical realism and physics are the name of the game, rather than a flaw.
None of that interferes with the kind of realism that the movie DOES go for, which is setting the story in the real world rather than a “gothic” hammy comic book world – and that realism the movies DO succeed at.
If you want to cling to interview soundbytes, just think of Lord of the Rings: there, the scriptwriters also claimed how they tried to “stay true to the books as possible”, but of course they didn’t do that, they just went ahead and changed plot points as the saw fit.
And yet that doesn’t mean those deviations are “flaws” – what those movies ARE, is a close adaptation with creative, mostly justified changes, and it should be primarily reviewed as that rather than how well it conforms to what the creators claimed at some point.
How long did it take Mike to realize he no longer had alcohol and grab a beer?
In the interest of full disclosure I drank 3 Mexican Martinis (4 1/2 shots tequila, 3 shots orange liquer [with same alcohol content as tequila]
during this review. This is also the second time I’ve watched it. The first time had much more alcohol involved and watching it for a second time post-alcohol-induced-amnesia was akin to watching a Nolan film.
Can someone link me to the ET edited out Music score ?
…and there’s the passive-aggresive counter-opinion thinly veiled as a response that will ensure I steer clear of forums/comments sections for at least a couple of months.
What exactly were you looking to add with that comment? It basically boils down to ‘I disagree with you’, which, for a species that numbers in the billions, is par for the course. If you’d elucidated in some way, or made a new point, I’d understand. As it is, you’ve just reacted to what I put. Cheers for that.
How is a massive fight between the police and an army of mercenaries not supposed to be taken literally?
And I know that a lot of the things in the film are more about the emotions and ideas involved rather than the actual execution but this is still a superhero action movie. Take the fights with Bane for example, yes it was supposed to be more about Bane defeating Batman psychologically than all the stunts that they did in the fight but it’s still an action scene and all they did was have them punch each other and Batman using two or three gadgets. The movie had a $250 million budget, have Batman throw some more gadgets at Bane, do some more acrobats and stunts. I’m not saying that they should go overboard like the Star Wars prequels but they can at least emulate the martial arts movies that infuse heavy emotions into incredible action scenes and stunts.
Knowing multiple cops and non-LEOs who own guns, I am willing to use my small sample size to theorize approximately nine out of ten of everyone involved in that last fight couldn’t shoot for shit. Seriously, it takes a certain type of person to have the responsibility to drill with their weapon to the point of being competent, and that distinction is definitely not drawn at whether or not they are a cop. The ratio of gun owners to responsible gun owners in the USA is absolutely disgraceful.
You’re seriously trying to say that the cops, with no cover, bunched up together, facing a hell of a lot of automatic weapons, wouldn’t have been mown down???? Dude….
I like the other idea, the tear gas. Sounds like a better plan than ‘run at the superior force with no tactics whatsoever’.
I also like the idea of batman using his gadgets, which he did constantly up until he faced Bane. Kinda bugged me that he tried nothing different, no matter how outmatched he seemed. He could’ve taken a step back to consider a different approach instead of ‘punch Bane til he falls down with no tactics whatsoever’.
My biggest question was Bane’s motivation. Take over the city, live like hostages for a few months…..die. Ra’s ah ghul’s plan was to kill everyone in Gotham, destroy it then take over and rule it the way HE wanted it ruled. He wanted control. His daughter’s plan was make everyone angry(or let the baddies rise up against the rich, rule for a while, whatever) then die without anyone knowing who she was or why she was killing everyone. After they had the bomb, why not let it be known she was the mastermind??
I was just a little confused. Heaps of money, time and effort, people dying just so he can hold a city hostage for a while then die.To prove that….having a bomb means you can do whatever you want in a city…?
Actually they would have mentioned the joker (all the bad guys got a little flash back or cameo) but Nolan said there was no mention for the Joker simply to honor the memory of Heath Ledger.
By “that” I mean the manipulation by the dirrector. This is something that Mike frequently talks about with JJ Abrams. But he does not mention this kind of manipulation in TDKR review imo.
You have to understand that it’s a poem.
The fanboys are getting upset. The comments, the nitpicking, the defensiveness, the heated comments…the fire is rising. It’s time for Lord Plinkett to review this movie. Rise……
In an ACTION movie? Sort of, yeah.
This film definitely had some great “moments”, and is also visually interesting, but overall, when you step back and view it as a whole film, it lacks. I am surprised these guys gave it such a quick label of approval…. I am hoping Plinkett does an 8 part review a few months from now…
Except they’re supposed to be experienced mercenaries, not just random people Bane grabbed off the streets. Did you see the stunt they pulled when they kidnapped Dr. Pavel or when they robbed the stock market or when they implemented a plan that allowed Bane to hold a city of 12 million hostage?
Since when did a series of movies that are supposed to be a somewhat realistic and grounded interpretation of a story where a billionaire dressed up as a bat fights criminals and super villains turn into a surreal Lynchian poem?
I don’t know, but apparently it did.
you have to remember all this is happening as humankind is about to destroy skynet. It can’t send that many back because it can’t build that many that quickly and it can’t necessarily power the time machine for that much materiel. In the sequels, you get upgrades because of timeline changes cumulatively impacting skynet’s ability to send shit back into the past, resulting in more advanced terminators. why they didn’t send those back to kill sarah connor at some further back point is mysterious.
I was sooo disappointed coming out of the theater, and was expecting Mike and Jay to be the LAST people to be give this film a positive review… I’m not one to say every movie I dislike should get the Plinkett treatment, but I thought this one TOTALLY qualified … and then Mike and Jay like it. I can’t believe they do. … It’s like Star Wars prequel denial… Or they were just pleasantly drunk when they saw it…
because among the mountains of problems with with this film, THAT actually comes out as one of the smaller problems.
I have to say i really enjoyed it. It was slow and i found it interesting. Kinda like sunshine. My ass went numb a few times because its a million hours long, but other then that i really liked it. The dark knight was the worst in the series barring the character of the joker. Nice to see they brought the story back to batman again.
agreed, but this review is odd. they start as though its a 10/10 film. feels like a 7/10 by the close of the review. love these guys, but they contradict themselves way too much
Hey, idiots. Good criticism = hating everything that is popular.
Go gain some critical thinking skills and then realize what giant retarded, ignorant retards you’re all being.
Actually, I take that back, using “retard” gives mentally retarded people a bad name.
Yeah, so that’s why Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon wasn’t such a smash box-office hit. Because it wasn’t full of lengthy dialogue scenes.
I pointed out that making it exactly like No Man’s Land, which was your idea, would have been stupid. Your opinion was stupid. Stupid. Stupid.
Really? How do you imagine Peter Parker? Doing the Twist, the Locomotion and listening to the Beatles? 1962 is when he was a teenager after all.
Big deal if he has a skateboard or listens to Doucheplay.
The problem with the plot-holes is that they break your suspension of disbelief and make you question what you’re seeing, effectively taking you out of the movie.
For example, the thin-ice “exile” scene. It makes no sense at all and, as I said, breaks the immersion effect and reminds you you’re just watching some movie.
To recap: the commissioner and friends are being made to walk into thin-ice, that we have seen in a previous scene, is fucking unstable and dangerous. They are being watched from their backs by armed guards.
Now, they are all walking close to each other, making the changes of breaking the ice greater, and the situation more tense.
Then, Batman comes walking casually, literally from nowhere (how far did he walk across just to get there?), fully-clad in armor that can only decrease his chances of NOT breaking the ice (and probably killing everyone in the scene to boot).
And to add to the WTF, he then he hands over Gordon a flare to throw into the ground. First of all, wtf buddy, don’t walk up to me, you’re just adding weight to the fragile ice I’m standing on! Second, I wouldn’t throw even a penny on thin-ice my life depends on, much less a fucking huge BURNING flare that then BURNS a path across the damn thing!
As if that all wasn’t enough WTF already, the scene cuts and they’re all somehow back into the city… how the fuck did Batman get them out of there?
This is just an example, mind you. The movie is full of incompetency that ruins the experience.
Addendum: I guess I can best summarize the problem of the thin-ice scene like this:
The film establishes the lethality and dangerousness of the thin-ice in the scene where Daggert is made to die by walking through it.
Then, Batman comes walking across it, casually to boot. And, somehow, the armed guards on the back (opposite to where Batman came from, so he couldn’t have taken them out) phase out of existence in this scene, unexplicably.
Why bother establishing something in a previous scene only to contradict it in a later scene? is the writer or Nolan senile?
the first thin ice scene was during the day & we could presume the ice was thinner… in fact we don’t necessarily know how much time has gone by between that first thin ice scene and the second. The second one was at night and one could presume the ice was thick enough to hold them. Regardless, having a few people leave via ice in the dead of winter is hardly a threat to Bane and this thugs. In a movie that some consider too long, do we really need to know every single “how”? I could care less about the details behind Bruce coming back or how he got them off the ice. Irrelevant and lets also say not very entertaining info anyways.
a plot hole is having seen something happen and then having something to contradict what you saw previously. Bruce Wayne plays it so “close to the chest” in all things Batman related that there are things that nobody knows except for him. Not knowing how he got back into Gotham only adds to Banes “WTF” moment when he sees the bat signal. Knowing how Bruce got back into Gotham would have just been more fodder for the naysayers to say “Oh well why didn’t Bane’s people cover THAT area?”
this may have been something everyone thought but I believe Bruce had a contingency plan for this as well and if anything would want his enemies to THINK he was down and beaten.
Here’s a few more:
So, at the start of the movie, the rookie cop just walks up to Bruce Wayne, tells him he KNOWS he’s Batman because he is also an orphan, and then Wayne basically just says “omg, eventhough you only have a wild and stupid hunch I have no choice but to reveal to you that I’m in fact the Batman!”
Why does Batman walk casually on the thin-ice, from the ocean’s direction, and to top it all off, none of the guards watching them from the nearby shore shoot at them?
In the “hellish” prison, why is everyone clean and proper, with good hair-cuts, clean clothes and tidy cells?
Wayne manor is within the city’s jurisdiction, but not within city limits, its outside the area cordoned off when the bridges are blown. Batman has a flying machine in this movie. If he parks it in the bat cave, he could have flown it into the city. Later on in the movie he even shows it parked on a random building covered in camo.
The film establishes the lethality and dangerousness of the thin-ice
in the scene where Daggert is made to die by walking through it.
So having a later scene utterly contradict that causes a WTF effect in non-brain-dead audiences which breaks suspension of disbelief and pops you out of the movie.
I am picking this scene as an example, but the film is chock-full of them.
This may have been written 50 times already but, regarding the
*SPOILERS* segment, earlier in the movie when Alfred told Wayne the fantasy of how he wanted to see him happy, he was very specific about what restaurant he visits, even so specific as to what he orders to drink. So Wayne knew where to go to give him what he wanted. Figuring out when he would be on vacation was obviously a non-question.
Speaking of non-questions, the supposed “plot hole” of “how did he get back” – he’s Batman, if you have to ask, you’re missing the point. Obviously the point was, it’s a trivial matter for Batman to get back – to get anywhere really – he’s fucking BATMAN. The movie was already nearly 3 hours, did you want it longer just to see him skiing across the fucking ice or whatever? Crikey
Answer to both questions: He’s Batman.
Where did your childlike innocence go, where you would go “WOW! Look, Batman is so badass he knows exactly where to walk on the ice! He must have some awesome ex-ray fish-finder tech or something on his batsuit that shows him how thick the ice is! THAT’S PROBABLY HOW HE GOT BACK IN TOO! AWESOME!
I guess you guys haven’t watched Batman Begins recently. If you had, you would remember the scene where Bruce and Liam Neeson had a sword fight on thin ice. Nothing more to say…
You’re actually correct with your point about the Joker. I’m not certain if the DKR “novel” is Nolanverse canon, but it explains that Joker is kept in Arkham Asylum (which has always been his second home) while just about every other criminal is sent to Blackgate. Perhaps Bane/ League of Shadows even had something to do with this, even he didn’t want someone so unpredictable to run loose. I haven’t read the story, but it’s been mentioned.
Which has nothing to do with that scene….unless you’re implying that Batman now instinctively knows the structural integrity of an iced-over body of water and thus understands how to navigate it better than anyone…..which would be absurd.
So, Mike, in essence you love chick flicks that logically make no sense but are “emotionally satisfying”? (laugh)
Wait a second – if Gotham City is under lockdown by a single terrorist, what is the Federal Government doing? Are they twiddling their fingers saying, “Meh. Who needs Gotham? We have Metropolis!” Is Gotham City some sort of Italian city-state? That’s a Phantom Menace-sized plot hole, Mike.
Yeah, but feeeeeeeelings and stuff.
That’s not a plot-hole.
They show you what the Federal Government is doing in the movie. They show the President giving a speech essentially saying that there’s nothing that they can immediately do so long as there’s a threat of nuclear demolition. Plus, they managed to sneak those 3 special forces guys in when they disguised themselves as deliverymen.
In essence, the Federal Government didn’t act because they were afraid of the millions of casualties their actions would have incurred.
that was explained in the film, brainiac
What didn’t you like about the movie?
If you even paid any attention to the movie, Bruce Wayne acted like he got caught and was taken to where they kept Lucius Fox and Cat Woman helped him out. Fox later took him to the under ground area that he used in “The Dark Knight” and Bruce got his suit from there.!
“Great way to tie in everything in a nice bow in the end when he fell in the cave”
Just like Lucas says,
“It’s like poetry. It rhymes”
eh, i dunno how you got so many thumbs-down, jack. you’re talking sense.
In the opening scenes of the previous movie (The Dark Knight), didn’t Batman discourage other vigilante impostors and telling them they couldn’t be him?
Then why is he in this movie all like “anyone can be Batman, that’s the entire point of Batman, you just need to wear the mask”…
Did someone with Alzheimer’s write this?
Yeah, that’s just what we need. Another quality show that gets dragged through the dirt by intruding advertising running for 5 minutes between 2 minute segments until people stop watching and they can the show completely.
The reason you’re enjoying this show NOW is because they DON’T have an executive producer pulling a leash trying to please stockholders and PR suits for the sake of revenue.
They really should’ve removed the Alfred scenes of pointless whine and explanation and add scenes of Batman fixing his back and training some more and in the beginning of Batman showing mentally signs of the 8 years he was out of game, instead of immediately going STRAIGHT into computer, arrow shooting, smooth talking, crime solving mode.
They really should’ve taken their time with Batman being in hiding and made him a complete recluse, they also should’ve had his ass handed to him in by Bane’s henchmen to really show he’s out of the game. Also, his rise didn’t take the appropriate about of time to feel like a real rise.
Doesn’t work that way. Listen to yourself, and try to figure out how the FUCK THAT’S POSSIBLE.
Do something new.
It was a hostage situation on a large scale (the entire city). Your question about “why didn’t the government do something” has been answered – move on, moron
rename video: “3 months til next review rises”
Half in the Bag comes out every couple of weeks. What are you talking about?
Don’t blame the movie because you don’t understand simple things. Try paying attention to the movie instead of searching for things to pick apart.
harrycarrybigfoot, for disliking these guys so much, you sure do spend a lot of time here. Seems like kind of a waste of time.
Have you guys seen Hardy’s Star Trek: Nemesis screen test? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6blOgs6r7MM&feature=player_embedded
I would normally be spending this time on rottentomatoes, but that ship has sailed.
On the point of why Batman won the second fight… Two reasons:
First, he gained a mental toughness in the pit that he lacked the first time around. Mental attitude is known to make a difference in sports and similar competition.
Second, and more important, he learned that Bane’s weakness was his mask/face. Notice that Batman punches him in the face over and over and over in the second fight. He wouldn’t have won if he had used the same tactics as the first fight.
Tis strange to credit the movie with gritty realism as a contrast to the cartoony Avengers then explain away the REDICULOUS plot holes because it has a “fairy tale” feel.
Whatever, these guys have almost zero continuity in how they rate a movie as great/passable/trash (see their review of Battleship vs the review of What’s Your Number). Yes, they are entertaining but Mike and Jay aren’t much past that (kinda like a Nolan film)
Check out Watchmen for a gritty realistic superhero movie that will probably remain unsurpassed in its awesomeness.
Gritty in tone. There’s a serious mood to the Nolan Batman movies but a light hearten quirky semi comedy in the Avengers. Both have Comicbook logic at one level or another.
Well a large amount of praise I hear about these 3 Batmans and other Nolan films films is how they take the cartoony comic book logic out of them and are more action dramas. Like they are some kind of “thinking mans comic book/action movies” That’s horse shit. the more you really think about it, the more absurd it gets. And I’m not talking about a man in a bat suit, I’m talking about Blake just know that Wayne is Batman beacuse they are both sad orphans.
Did my reply really get deleted for saying “horse shit”? Fuck this.
Don’t know if it was a joke about Nemesis, but Bane came out about a decade before Nemesis and his origin has always been a child born and raised in a terrible prison. Nolan just made the prison a pit.
You, um…you do understand that tone and story are two totally different things right?
well the real plinkett is the taller one
asshole that was in the himylayas
do another plinkett review Mike
he got into Gotham using the Bat submarine.
and he traveled the world using the Bat Credit Card
LOL. You were doing OK until you praised Watchmen. Then you lost ALL credibility. Unless you were being sarcastic or something
Who here didnt expect Robin
half in the bag: “8 month stay-cay in between videos”
Make an Android app you fat homos.
You guys are painfully unfunny. Please stop trying to be funny. You are bad at it. Very, very bad at it.
Just review movies. Just. Review. Movies. No skits, no “story”, no fake accents, just review the movies you idiots.
I have an even better idea!
You should fuck off!
They have about two weeks between episodes. I know in your short-attention-span brain that two weeks feels like eight months, but it’s really not their fault that you’re an entitled douchebag.
That was really funny bro, the complete lack of subtly made my laugh burst outloud in the office. Also RLM is great comedy, this guys just full of bull shit.
Picking over such trivial matters like characters walking next to other characters whilist trying to cross the ice, which is a pretty fucking stupid thing to do granted is reading into this movie waaaaay to closely in my opinion. Who the fuck cares if some of the stuff doesn’t make much sense? This is an action film, plain and simple. It’s not meant to have every aspect endlessly picked at until all you can see are the errors, which blind you so much that you get none of the joy that you should be getting from this film.
I thought it was thoroughly entertaining, which is something that i rarely get from holywood productions nowadays. Moreover it’s a great flick to relax into without the need to think my way through the plot. People need to just chill out and try and enjoy it for what it is.
It’s an action film that tries to be intellectual, so when it does stupid things people are going to call it out on it.
I’ve been saying that for forever. These two are awful. Just awful.
You hit the nail on the head.
I can’t wait for our generation to eventually shun the films like they did Burton’s.
Hey maybe if you complain more, they’ll go away! Oh wait…but then where would you go to pointlessly bitch about something you don’t like?
I love you guys, you guys are funny, something different in this day of age, you guys seem semi-professionals, and i realy hope some dumb ass hollywood producer lends you guys a chance to make a movie or some rich hollywood guy recognizes you, but, you guys are lazy when it comes to updates or regular schedules, in this day of age, i get it, you guys are probaly bussy but, it comes off amateuristic, updating every .. when you guys feel like it. Its 2012 guys. Have a time schedule. So people know when or what to expect.
It’s a free Web site dipshit. How much are you paying to see the content here? Nothing? Then STFU good sir
A guy who can’t spell or use proper punctuation is trying to call someone “amateuristic.”
In the scene where he reveals his “fantasy” about Bruce having a wife and kids and being happy, Alfred does tell him EXACTLY where he used to go on his annual vacation in Florence, and that while sitting there he hoped to look up and see him, and both would know he could make it on his own in the world.
Its not really a plot hole; with access to the type of software Bruce tempts Selina with, it would be very easy to keep tabs on an old English butler on vacation…thank YOU biometric passports ;D
The Bat remaining hidden at the top of a skyscraper was a more obvious plot-hole or just lazy writing. Surely in 3 months some of Banes pals or the anarchist element of Gotham’s population would have gone onto that roof and found it!
If only Lucius had mentioned Bruce being a gifted programmer or engineer in Batman Begins to set up the big reveal about The Bat…
We never did find out much about his education or interests. Something like Lucius having a desk toy that Bruce designed and built as a child for his favourite “uncle” might have been a nice touch and established a relationship going back further. It would server to highlight Lucius’ understanding of Bruce’s potential. It’s believable enough that a bereaved kid would become a reclusive, angry teenager after the death of his parents, plunging into technical subjects that he could control as a way of coping with that loss.
Bruce Wayne only emerged in the last of the trilogy, so we have more to digest in terms of his development. There really should have been a bit more of that history in Batman Begins, but its an understandable omission: Nolan couldn’t have known how well the movie might do or whether sequels would be made at all.
Stupid people aren’t going to notice such plot-holes or worry about them to begin with. The clues are there for the rest of us. Nolan is bright enough to let us work out things sometimes, otherwise its not terribly engaging or rewarding.
I’d agree that Gordon’s speech at the end of TDK was the weakest part of that movie. It wasn’t done with any sort of subtlety or presented well technically. My biggest complaint was that after nearly seeing your son shot to death by an horrifically disfigured former colleague, you’d be unlikely to be able to utter such pseudo-Shakespearean soliloquies.
To use Mike and Jay’s terminology it was “clunky” 😉
Nolan didn’t fuck it up so now he can make more movies that even at their worst are an order of magnitude better than Michael Bays action-porn. Anything that gets cinema goers to think just a little bit is better than mere brain candy.
The Prestige followed the success of Batman Begins, Inception followed that of TDKR.
That’s really not a bad investment for the cost of a ticket!
I can’t believe no-one has spotted this before 😉
Plot holes or plain inattentiveness? Nah, must be plot holes!
wow, I just got home from seeing batman and I can say that this is the first time that Half in the Bag has been way off of what I consider a good movie. First off I know it is a batman movie and that I should let some things go, but I felt it was very cheesy and I felt that their were WAY too many instances of being brought out of the film in a immersion kind of a way. For example: when all the cops are “charging” Bane’s army and all they have are hand guns. In Bane’s Army almost everyone hasa fully automatic rifle or bigger firearm. So what do the bad guys do with their clearly superior firepower? they shoot in front of the cops and then run and get in a big brawl/ hand to hand battle with them. Your all holding guns!! Use your guns!! But anyway I felt like Nolan’s other 2 batman movies were, while not perfect, much better at keeping me immersed in the films. But i have to say that when the New Jersey Cop guy who was guarding his side of the bridge actually blew the bridge and didn’t let the children across I was shocked. I was also knocked out of the movie because this time the cop does exactly what he was suppost to and it just didn’t feel right after all the other scenes of dismersion. It made me stop and say “wow that actually would have happened, that way, in those circumstances!” and after the cop on rebellion brawl it just was weird to see Nolan go back to a semblance of plausibility.
And really does the chick need to be Raz’s daughter? How does that add anything of value to the story? It just seems very unnecessary. The film just felt full of stuff that was unnecessary for moving things along.
Batman should have died too.
By the way, Tom Hardy is definitely worth watching in some more roles – he’s portrayed an excellent Bill Sykes, for instance.
“For example: when all the cops are “charging” Bane’s army and all they have are hand guns. In Bane’s Army almost everyone hasa fully automatic rifle or bigger firearm.”
We buy semi-automatics, they get full automiatcs.
We run out of semi-automatics, they still have full automatics.
The “retarded short amount of time” it took for Bruce to heal up was 5 months.
But even though I laughed at your comment, you’re wrong. These copycats used guns and attempted to murder Scarecrow and the other gangsters – and according to Batman that is wrong. It’s the most important point of the first movie.
If these guys had used their fists and tried to take the gangsters alive though, I’m sure Batman would’ve approved.
Yup, This is Nolanverse canon.
I have to wonder why exactly you are here on RedLetterMedia’s site if you don’t like their humor. O_O
It’s like watching The Dark Knight Rises for the comedy and romance.
Perhaps the tarp covering the Bat was actually an invisibility cloak (called the BatCloak) made by WayneTech?
Plot hole closed! Move along! 😀
About Bruce’s computer expertise: Batman is, in probably all versions, among the smartest persons on earth and a computer genious. In the Nolan movies, this isn’t very highlighted though. In Begins, after he has been cured of the fear toxin by Fox he doesn’t seem to understand when Lucius explains the chemical stuff of how he cured him. But in TDK he’s shown to have developed Lucius’ sonar concept to be able to monitor all of Gotham, and in TDKR he fixes the autopilot all by himself. So while Bruce is definitely a technical genious, all of these feats happens off-camera.
I agree with you. There should have been more highlighting on Bruce’s education and a little more focus on his technical genious. In the years before he goes on his around-the-world trip, there’s plenty of time to establish that he learned a lot about computers and stuff.
(As I am not a native speaker of the English language and doesn’t really know much about technical and chemical stuff, the terms I have used may be completely wrong and make little sense. I apologize in advance!)
I’m just gonna address your problem with the unrealistic charge scene:
If you dedicate half of your negative comment to that particular logical fallacy, you’re gonna have a hard time enjoying the majority of movies. This stupid choice of charging the enemy like it’s 1342 CE when they are wielding machine guns (or in this case, BOTH sides charge despite the fact that both are armed) is present in so many movies, probably because directors (or writers or whoever is responsible for this) seem to forget the idea of logic and realism when they see the possibility of an EPIC CHARGE SCENE!!!
It’s the same with punches and fight scenes in general. The hero can take a beating that would kill 20 men because a 5 minute long fight sequence is AWESOME!!! The first one deals with stupidity while this one deals with realism, but they’re both equally common stupid things you see in movies.
It basically symbolizes that there’s no such thing as deescalation in Gotham City… okay I’ll stop now °_°
…Yeah, I’m going to call hypocrite here.
Attention to detail indicates attention to the big picture. In a film this huge with so many people working on it there’s almost no excuse for anything that could be conceivably be fixed with a simple Google search.
Firstly, Jay has a good point about the beginning of this film. They establish immediately that eight years have passed, so they have to explain for the audience everything that happened to all the characters from the previous film in that time. They do this with mountains of exposition which is why it feels like it takes forever for things to get set up. But, compared to the length of the total film they really didn’t spend that much time on it. Confusion was inevitable.
When getting on with the “nit-picking” as detractors like to call it, I like to bring up The Dark Knight. I was very entertained and I found it to be an overall excellent film. However, I also notice people like to place this film on some kind of pedestal; like it’s THE definitive portrayal of Batman and the Joker, when it’s really not. First of all, while Heath Ledger did an absolutely fantastic job with the material he was given, I found the writing of the Joker to be loathsome. The Joker’s most defining characteristic is that he is a clown. Worse, he’s that clown that keeps following you around at your child’s birthday party playing practical jokes on you, entertaining the crowd at your expense. He does things because, to him, they are funny. The most terrifying thing about him is when you find yourself admitting that, yes, in a certain light that was kind of funny, and you’ve suddenly just identified with a villain (worse, a crazy man). The film has the chaos and randomness aspects in there, due to the writers ripping off *cough* sorry, paying homage to The Killing Joke (a superior story in almost every way), but other than that the Joker was a nothing but a psycho-slasher with a knife with the occasional one-liner. They even went the extra mile in the opposite direction by having Heath openly admit his jokes are bad. Secondly, Batman is supposed to be a master detective. One of his most common titles is the “World’s Greatest Detective”. The first piece of detective work we see Batman do in any of Nolan’s films occurs in The Dark Knight, and the production staff screws it up in every way possible. I’m referring to the forensic analysis of the bullet taken from the brick wall, which includes among it’s many wondrous blunders, firing several bullets into a similar material and eye-balling it to see which one looks the closest, then taking that brick for further review.
Many similar things creep into mind from The Dark Knight Rises. In the comics, the character of Bane was originally from South America and the mask was part of a lucha libre motif. They changed it for the movie, which happens. But the new character raises new questions. Like what was Bane doing in that prison in the first place? They never give the exact location but it’s somewhere in a desert. And some of the inmates look vaguely Middle-Eastern, which Tom Hardy is clearly not. So was he from somewhere else? If so, how did he get there? If not, then where did he get that classy accent from? This is something that could have been explained visually in a simple flashback, without any dialogue at all. Like maybe he was a henchmen that worked for the mercenary from the story, which in turn would answer so many other questions. See, I just don’t feel any story is ever capable of reaching a point where it’s okay to let plot elements go unexplained.
The same thing goes with Bruce Wayne magically appearing in Gotham again in
the midst of the lock-down. I readily accept that Batman could hike through a desert to civilization and survive, because we saw his survival training in the previous films. It would have been extremely easy to shoot a scene with Christian Bale walking into some foreign bank, have a teller greet him by a fake name, and then immediately cut back to Gotham. Nothing else would need to be said. Batman took measures to set up secret accounts with reserves of cash “just in case”. I believe it because he’s Batman and being prepared is his most defining characteristic. The very next time we see Bruce he could be dressed as a grunt loading one of the relief trucks, just like the commandos from earlier. This would even have been a nice callback to the truck robbery in the first movie. These would be 10 or 20 second scenes tops, easily interspersed with the rest of the narrative without harming anything, and at the same time filling in the gaps in the story.
I’m surprised you didn’t talk at all about the attack on the stock exchange, because that whole plot point bugged me more than anything else in the film. Bruce Wayne was financially ruined by bad trades that occurred during a terrorist attack on the exchange floor which involved Bane and his goons doing something to the systems in clear view of dozens of witnesses. Yet, for some reason, it will take years of court battles to prove the trades were fraudulent. Isn’t the big draw for these films that they are supposed to be about realism?
I also thought this movie was good enough. With that said, it’s the worst of the Nolan movies by far…. and my main problem is with the motivation of the villain. There be spoilers here, so skip the rest if you want to avoid those.
Bane is in league with the League of Shadows. These dudes have the very boring and predictable goal of blowing stuff up because the stuff is bad. Gotham is bad and must be destroyed. Alright, fine. He has this big bomb. Blow Gotham up and be done with it! A more interesting take would be that he wanted to have anarchy reign free; cut the city off from the rest of the world and use the bomb as a fail-safe in case the military storms the city. This would be all well and good if it wasn’t for the fact that the bomb is destined to go off no matter what anyone does. This is just a boring plot device to have our heroes fight against a timer in the end. It’s boring, it’s predictable, and it lacks any sort of tension. This, to me, is the biggest plot hole of the movie. I have seen people argue that he’s providing Gotham with a chance of redemption, but again, this falls flat since the bomb will blow no matter what.
I have no problem with Bruce getting back to Gotham. He’s Batman. You could have a shot of him swimming, walking on the ice, or swinging under the bridge that was still operational or something. He’s Batman. He finds a way. There are endless possibilities here, and all would make sense. In my mind, this is not a plot hole.
Then there are some really stupid scenes in the end of the movie. The most stupid one has to be where the police are slowly walking with small arms towards bad guys with assault rifles and tanks. They would be slaughtered in twenty seconds if the bad guys could hit the wide side of a barn (but they can’t). They could have had the police do something remotely intelligent….. like anything else…. but in stead we got this brain dead scene where the police walked slowly towards the most heavily fortified position of the enemy lines.
…. then there was this scene where Batman was outrunning heat seeking missiles in his helicopter *yawn*.
I really liked this movie up until the last act, which was full of holes and made no sense. I loved the pacing. I loved that it focussed on the characters rather than their alter-egos. It’s an ok movie, it’s last act firmly shoves it behind the previous two, but it’s still an ok movie.
“but other than that the Joker was a nothing but a psycho-slasher with a knife with the occasional one-liner.”
I wouldn’t really separate the acting from the writing there – it’s not like Ledger had to make something out of the script, he and Nolan both collaborated on the design of the character.
If you take the whole thing as it’s in the movie, the Joker is very much a “funny clown” – he keeps entertaining primarily himself with one crazy antic after another, the “one-liners” are anything but “occasional”, and seems to have a blast doing what he does.
The only thing you might say is that his “actual goal” has nothing to do with humor and he really tries to prove his nihilistic views and spread dread – but he keeps laughing and making fun of his targets while working towards it.
People who say “ah, this Joker isn’t funny, he’s just some psychopath” haven’t paid any attention.
“They even went the extra mile in the opposite direction by having Heath openly admit his jokes are bad.”
Uh, that was self-deprecation – his actual “jokes” sure are good to the audience, and to him.
To my mind, that was the major plot hole in the movie…. not that Batman managed to sneak into the city. I don’t understand why people have a problem with that. There are several ways he could have done it.
Bane’s plan, on the other hand, made no sense from start to finish, and that I think is a problem.
You just said yourself there that the goal of TDK’s Joker wasn’t really humor, but spreading his nihilistic views to everyone (incidentally, a plot point borrowed from The Killing Joke, in which Joker tried to drive Jim Gordan insane). So how exactly does that not make him just another psychopath, albeit a uniquely dressed one?
The proof is in the pudding. Comic Joker would never say he wasn’t funny. Ever. He thinks he’s hilarious and that anyone who disagrees simply doesn’t get it. So he has to “explain” it to them. There was also the time Joker about lost it when Chechyen called him a “freak”. TDK’s Joker thought he was the only sane man, the comic Joker knows he’s crazy and believes himself better off for it.
To me, classic Joker storytelling comes from something like The Laughing Fish. Joker poisoned the Gotham River to give all the fish his distinctive grin, but otherwise they were harmless and fit for consumption. A week later he heads to the patent office and applies for a copyright since all the fish being served are now using his unique and distinctive image, and not being able to get it results in, to the Joker, perfectly reasonable escalation. That’s such an absurd plan that you almost can’t help but laugh at it.
There are also many other coincidences of the script that just don’t seem to fit. Batman being forced to choose between two people, the two river boats in the social experiment at the end, and all the other instances of two that pop up almost make it seem like the script was initially penned with Two-Face as the main villain, but then Nolan decided it should be the Joker instead. Nothing proves this of course, it’s just speculation.
“So how exactly does that not make him just another psychopath, albeit a uniquely dressed one?”
Here, let me quote my own post to answer your question:
“but he keeps laughing and making fun of his targets while working towards it.”
“he keeps entertaining primarily himself with one crazy antic after another, the “one-liners” are anything but “occasional”, and seems to have a blast doing what he does.”
“Comic Joker would never say he wasn’t funny. Ever. He thinks he’s hilarious and that anyone who disagrees simply doesn’t get it.”
Again, SELF-DEPRECATION. Which is a HUMOROUS device. IRONY.
He insults Lao by calling their plan a “bad joke”, and does it by means of self-deprecation. That doesn’t mean he actually considers himself unfunny.
“He thinks he’s hilarious and that anyone who disagrees simply doesn’t get it.”
So that’s just an “it’s not like it was in the comics” complaint, then.
This one does think he’s hilarious, but doesn’t particularly care if others agree. He uses the humor to ridicule his targets, though, which is what the previous portrayals of the Joker have been doing, too.
“TDK’s Joker thought he was the only sane man”
For someone who thinks he’s “sane”, he makes way too many references to how insane Gotham is because of him and Batman.
This Joker is enigmatic, and a lying TROLL – he bullshits everyone for sport, and you can’t quite tell how “sane” he is, which fits the idea of a “murderous trolling maniac” quite well.
The “freak” ones probably just annoyed him because they disrespected him, but then he keeps calling himself a freak all the time.
Bottom line is, there’s probably a lot of funny stuff they could’ve gone with, but they specifically wanted to remove themselves from the Nicholson version out of respect / creative ambition or whatever.
Seems to me like they’ve reinterpreted it in a way that still doesn’t lose the “trolling clown” aspect but gives it fascinating twists.
“Batman being forced to choose between two people”
The only eyebrow-raising detail there is that the Joker may not have known which time it is, although maybe he did throw an eye on a clock before pretending to ask Gordon.
Given how people in the same prison were working with him (or the mob), they could’ve made a few calls after the interrogation was over, too.
You may call it “speculation”, but the guy with the phone in the belly was placed in the cell *after* the Joker arrived 😉
“the two river boats in the social experiment at the end”
Well the black dude threw away the detonator, and the old guy on the other boat backed down – those were “coincidences” as far as “proving the good in people”, but other than that there wasn’t anything implausible there.
If anything, they forgot to address the fact that there were COPS on the prisoner boat – so the civilians should’ve been hesitant about blowing up all the good policemen, and the other side of the argument should’ve been that “they knew the risks” and the civilians should be protected.
Instead they made it about “omg compassion with the scum of Gotham”, and that kinda took away from it.
Just like when Bruce told fake Ghul that “he was no executioner”, but they didn’t discuss all the innocents that would die as a result of their plan.
There are many little “flaws” like that, but you didn’t name them 😀
I liked the movie overall, but I have to say they could’ve cut about 30 minutes and I think the movie would’ve been stronger for it.
Bane explains to Batman that you cannot truly have disrepair without hope. That’s why he lets the bomb delay. He wants to see the citizens struggle to survive. He kind of makes a big speech about it. That’s the exact same way he tries to crush Batman, remember?
As for the police marching, it reminded me of peaceful protesters marching up against an oppressive force. I think that was the spirit of it.
I’d say the Prestige is the weakest Nolan movie.
Just wana point out one plot hole about your plot hole about how bruce would know where that alfred would go to sit, if i remeber correctly alfred describes where he sits pretty clearly to bruce
With the unintelligible distortion on Bane’s voice and the dark fuzzy confusing action scenes I found it to be unwatchable, almost as bad as Transformers.
Except of course the Burton films are viewed as classics and are highly appreciated to this day.
It’s the Schumacher ones that get the flak.
I haven’t seen Rises yet, but from what I can tell from Begins – they were done MORE realistically. The realism was UPPED. But not by any means completely achieved, and neither do I think was it their goal at any point.
The villains aren’t all hammy freaks with evil laughs, but “ordinary” mobsters you see in other movies. The few “eccentrics” among them are viewed with incredulity, because that’s how normal people would react.
At the very worst, they’re super ninjas (but that was only in Begins).
Batman isn’t brooding and… uh… battish, because he’s a dark brooding bat, but because he’s designed a theatralic act that he thought would make an impression.
Alfred criticizes him for going too far in his antics, etc.
Having that said, with all these elements in place, it’s still a “fairytale” to a high extent – a very linear “origin story”, villains with unrealistic super weapons, Batman winking to a little boy and, of course, a bearded bum, repeating “lines of wisdom” keeping him on track, the inspiring female love interest etc.
And, of course, the technical gadgetry doesn’t get much explanation either, it’s just there, being designed for the military or something.
It could be drier, more grounded, and more realistic, but it isn’t – however, there’s still a large difference between this and the Burton films.
Sliding scale of realism, do any of you guys get that concept??
The TDK makes a step further, and pulls it even more to the ground – there are no fear toxin hallucinations anymore, no ninjas, no flying gothic bats, and Batman’s tactics are slightly less creepy and more focused on combat.
It’s, however, still not completely there – in the setting of realistically acting mobsters and executives, you’ve still got a “tale” of morality, sacrifice, and responsibility (or something).
The Joker is just believable enough as a brilliant manipulator with lots of backup plans, but he could still be less enigmatic, less unstoppable, less of a “force of nature”.
Now I assume Rises took it back to the first movie, so maybe it’s again more like a “fairytale” – I’ll watch it when the DVD comes out 😉
“Tis strange to credit the movie with gritty realism as a contrast to the cartoony Avengers”
The Avengers aren’t really “cartoony”, though – the characters are still portrayed believably, none of the superhero’s gimmicks are taken seriously by the others, and the only thing making the universe more fantastical is how the world’s apparently gotten used to aliens, gods and superheroes, and has “agencies” keeping track of them.
The thing with Avengers is, those movies are primarily action COMEDIES. The bad guys aren’t about moral dilemmas or whatever, they’re just classic simple villains seeking world domination and power.
While a city being destroyed is bad enough, it doesn’t seem to be that much of a deal standing in the way of the action fun – you don’t see citizens reacting in different to the “terrorism”, no one is brooding and philosophizing about anything, it’s just a setting for the fun action guys to kick ass.
That’s about as “cartoony” as it gets, but it doesn’t hold a candle to something like, uh, the Burton movies?
I was referring to the Plinkett review. Perhaps the verb “slammed” is an exaggeration, but my point was that, in the Avatar review, the political shit got mentioned, and not very favorably. In this review, it didn’t even get mentioned. Yet they seemed equally heavy-handed to me. That’s all.
The scene where they said that Robin’s name was actually Robin really ruined the movie for me. Not because of comic book rage, but just because I couldn’t figure out why they even had that scene in there- or even why they needed that character to begin with. It’s difficult to ignore plot holes in the Christopher Nolan Batman films just because of how realistic and gritty the film is made to be. So when you see things where Batman is able to kick through a concrete wall just because he has a robot knee brace, it just takes you out of the film.
Haha yeah TDKR is a real think piece…
Also, you said:
“The film has the chaos and randomness aspects in there, due to the writers ripping off *cough* sorry, paying homage to The Killing Joke (a superior story in almost every way), but other than that the Joker was a nothing but a psycho-slasher with a knife with the occasional one-liner.”
Now I’m sure you enjoyed slipping in that Plinkett reference (as a homage, of course), but let’s look at the stories:
In the Killing Joke, the Joker is a former comedian who’s gone crazy after his wife died, and now tries to drive people, specifically Gordon, “insane” by, uh, showing him pictures.
In the movie, he tries to force people to act immorally, puts them into dilemmas, and brainwashes a guy into blind revenge.
While he does mention “madness” in reference to Dent, casually driving the point home that Dent really has lost his reason and sanity and become an obsessed psychopath (for those trying to deconstruct the logic of what he says as a flaw of the movie), the main point is that he’s made him angry and immoral.
Also, this Joker specifically pisses on the Killing Joke by telling a fake backstory not unlike the one in the comic. He understands how bad people often have “sympathetic backstories” and try to use them to justify their actions, but he himself isn’t one of them.
So that’s not a “rip-off” to me – it’s taking the general idea, and making it into something so far removed from the original that you may call it a homage, or development, but in no way a “rip-off”.
If anything’s rip-off, it’s stuff like him falling into chemicals (just like the comics!) or Capt. America getting stuck in ice, but, you know, it’s based on the comics. Does it become a rip-off when you start doing it differently than the source material?
Spoiler alert: Bruce Wayne is Batman.
Plot hole! How did Mike get that beer at 24:47? Overrated hacks.
My sentiments exactly! I cannot believe the discussion circles around trivialities like how Batman got back into town, while the whole motivation of the villains is so nonsensical. Basically Bane and consorts are suicide bombers with a timer attached to the bomb. The longest timer ever. If it is not for letting someone stop them eventually (an awkward cry for help?), then it it must be solely to torture Batman. And this is even more stupid than the former motivation. Is Batman the navel of the universe? But then again, why perish together with all the inhabitants of Gotham city?
This central issue overshadowed the whole movie experience, for me at least. I was so baffled that I had no time to watch out for any «emotional core», feeble as it may be.
The only things I feel I have to defend here is first off, I think that every fight sequence in the series is made to be shown in a certain way. Meaning that with the clip you show from Batman Begins, Nolan was clearly trying to show Batman dropping down and kicking ass from the level of someone that was there. I never found it annoying, I felt that he was trying to portray each fight in order to get a certain effect. With the first Bane vs. Batman fight there is no trick photography and everything is sort of static and shown blatantly. That makes the fighting look less romantic and more sloppy, making Batman look bad and Bane brutal. Again, effect.
And this might be nitpicking, but Bruce Wayne arrives in an arrested Gotham without tools, announcement, etc…well, HE’S BATMAN. So of course he has secret ways into the city with clever methods that are best left off screen. Come on guys!
I cannot believe that after ripping Star Wars to shreds for doing dumb things you both can sit there and ignore the stupidity in this film and then the film continues on while the audience can just sit there and go what? Why? Why did that happen? Why did they do that? You can’t take a series that has been trying to make batman seem “real” for two films, and then make the last film akin to Thor levels of fantasy. If they started out this way, fine, but it’s jarring to be stuck in a “comic book” movie in the third act. Just a few stupid things: Bruce can’t walk, has the body of an 80 year old. Thanks knee brace, now I can kick through stone! Miracle back punch surgery! Falling 50 feet with a rope tied to your waist, oops need more pushups I guess. Slow missiles are slow. Police sits on rear end for three months in sewer full of construction equipment literally 3 feet from freedom, no beards or dirty uniforms when they escape. Bane wants to destroy Gotham and end corruption. Why? Dent laws cleaned up the town and the police said they had nothing to do. You want to nuke everyone because some evil rich people are being.. OH WAIT, YOU ARE THE ONES WORKING WITH THEM. HURR HURR. Fox didn’t flood the chamber when Bane asked him to activate the device, also they gave other people access to activate it? When? And why? Fox says no, kill me, Bane LOSES unless they idiotically gave the activation codes out at the company Christmas party for the extremely dangerous device. Bane is weepy lapdog, even though her saved her life. prison was nice, sunny, free medical care, TV, and everyone loved to cheer Bruce on as he climbed. Where was the dark, dank hole of no hope? Bruce decides to use his time as the NUKE is ticking down to climb a bridge with rigging gear and a paintbrush covered in lighter fluid (!??) and paint a bat symbol. Timer with 5 seconds left on nuke, cut to Bruce STILL IN COCKPIT. Lives. It didn’t deal with society breaking down, all the good people of Gotham hid in their houses while the criminals held Alice In Wonderland style trials for rich people. Criminals can’t seem to hit cops with automatic weapons directly in front of them. Catwoman hates white rich people, decided to be one at the end. Alfred leaves, ok, bye I guess, we won’t see you till the end and they are no consequences to this. Cops chase batman with 500 cop cars, can’t spare one for Bane who just murdered a bunch of stockbrokers five minutes before. EMT device disables everything, except for electronic device uploading bad stock trades for Bane. Come on guys, are we watching the same movie?! I could point out dozens more!
I have the same damn shirt Mike is wearing. OMG, I didn’t know companies produced more than one of a single item.
I just think Chris Nolan movies take too long to do too little. They piss me off because they seem to care so little about the time I’ve invested in them. Inception specifically didn’t really strike me as sloppy or full of holes or whatever, but it was long as shit, went in repeating cycles of events that didn’t matter, and by the end I was literally yawning. Big cartoon yawns.
How did Bruce Wayne get to Gotham unnoticed? WEll, I’m in the “emotional” camp and I don’t question such plot devices, but there was an explanation in the movie, people might have missed.
a) Gotham’s airspace was rather uncontrolled, the military took recon flights way up in the sky, so that Bane could not spot them.
b) Bruce took advantage of that, he’s got The Bat. He landed it on a high building, covered up in a cloaking sheet.
How do people miss such points?
c) he the fucking BATMAN
Citizens struggling to survive? You see nothing of that sort happen in the film at all. People party, they stay locked up and cozy indoors, and they never start an underground resistance force to combat Bane. All in all, the bomb timer felt very gimmicky and contrived–nobody panics except for the heroes, who have to because its part of the plot.
The police were in no way “peaceful protesters” marching in defiance of some oppressive force. They were there specifically to face off against Bane’s mercs, and you could feel the tension in the scene mounting as they drew closer. Hollywood tactics (YAAAH OBLIGATORY CHARGE SCENE) really ruin some of the meatier portions of the film.
You had me vomiting in stanzas.
Honestly, I don’t agree with the point of how the Alfred ending scene wouldn’t make sense, since Alfred explains to Bruce in detail how he would visit a specific café and wish he would see Bruce with a woman and having started a new life. It has been made apparent through all three movies that Bruce can figure out the most obscure details from things to be enough to find out what café Alfred would regularly visit.
Aside from that, yes, the scene was all about how Bruce really cares about the people he have related to and want to fulfill their wishes.
Let me get this straight. People think that one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, that is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands; and he not have the ability get himself back into a city?
Let me get this straight. People think that one of the wealthiest, most powerful men in the world, that is secretly a vigilante who spends his nights beating criminals to a pulp with his bare hands; and he would not have the ability get himself back into a city?
I think you guys were too lenient on this movie. Even ignoring the things that didn’t make sense, this movie simply was not entertaining.
the film made it a point that he had lost his resources. money, bat-gadgets, all gone. no help from the inside either….so yeah if you set up this “realistic” take on superheroes and then proceed to include this many plot holes in your movie people will criticize it.
You’re never gonna get Inception right? Watch it’s precursor, Paprika.
The thing is this: he’s Batman. Walking into a city on lockdown isn’t much of a problem when he can do the same thing with a hole 2 feet wide with guards on both ends and trip mines all the length.
Does Bane sound like Ramtha, or is it just me?
Im with Jay on this one.
Nolan is a talentless hack and the movie is total shite.
So how are you with Jay then? He didn’t say anything even remotely close to that.
Its because im fucking telepathic. you retarded imbecile.
See, it’s not like that. He still had the Batcave that is outside of the isolated Gotham. They didn’t take his house. The other gadgets where in the city. They are off protocol, so they didn’t got those too, but Bane took them eventually. You can’t even pay attention to a superhero flick, pleb. In BB Alfred said: ” In the Civil War, your great-great grandfather was involved in the Underground Railroad, secretly transporting freed slaves to the North.”..so in the end of BB they both agree that they need to improve the south-east corner witch points to Gotham city. I can’t say what they’ve done, but in 9 + years they could’ve easily build a underground railroad to Gotham. Not everything has to be spoon-fed to you. But in this case the movie suffered from the unexplained showing of Bruce, even if it didn’t ruin the experience for me, because he showing up, was the important part.
tldr; He is Batman. lel xDD
tom lennon was a doctor in memento to! he gets around
But then again, as Mike said, it’s less about the plot than the overall impact of what happens – poetry was a good simile in that regard.
The plot is supplementary to the conclusion and the emotional core that we derive from it.
Soooo many levels of irony. x’D
I feel pretty sure the Bat was on that building since he saved Selina Kyle. However, he absolutely does have some sort of gadget to get back.
Well the three got hung from the bridge, that makes it a more serious situation. The rest of the country basically excommunicated Gotham from the U.S., and that includes special forces.
My sentiments. The movie is about maintaining hope in the broken city, and that’s the only way Batman could save Gotham.
I don’t think Batman’s entrance near the end of the movie is all that far-fetched. It’s not that nobody could get in, it’s that the military did not want anyone getting in, and their presence around Gotham probably did not end at that single intact bridge. How did Batman do it? Who knows. But Gotham is an island in the middle of a river, not an ocean. Ask Rhett Butler about running blockades.
More damning, to my mind, is the purpose of Miranda Tate’s continued subterfuge after Bane takes Gotham. Her people had the MacGuffin bomb; the Batman was out of commission, presumably never to return. What possible motive would she have for slumming it with the rest of Gotham’s doomed residents, other than because the plot calls for it? Why not ascend to take her place beside Bane? Was she biding her time, waiting for Batman’s return? How could she have known he would? Why would she even expect it?
Which isn’t to say I didn’t love the movie. It’s easily one of the most enjoyable I’ve seen in theaters in recent years.
“The Dark Knight is a better ‘movie’ but this one I found more entertaining” isn’t a movie you find more entertaining a better movie?
Mike wasn’t drinking beer! :O
i didn’t like this movie. thougth the ending was cheesy and the whole prison scenario was just pathetic. the worst prison ever? there were no guards, the hole spend them enough light, they had the chance to escape everyday, even with a rope for security….
and the death of Bane?! wasn’t bane characterized as a intelligent, anarchy loving muscle man? he was just the lap dog for another bigger villain, which had pretty flat goals …
I thought the unbelievable part wasn’t so much “how’d he get into Gotham” as it was “how did he get back from whatever part of the world the prison is in, having no forms of ID, no money, no Batsuit, no transportation, and no food.” Getting into the city could’ve been easy. He could’ve just climbed over the top parts of the bridge, or snuck past the soldiers guarding it (trained as a ninja and all that). But how did he even get out of the desert outside of the hole?
I am really deeply shocked that you, guys’ liked The Dark Knight. It was absolute shit on almost every level except music. It was especially bad movie from moviemaking view point, so I am shocked that you have so professionally bashed Star Wars for crappy script full of holes, absurds with mediocre acting and all of this is everywhere in TDK. It is the most overhyped movie of the decade, maybe even all-time, starting from so called ‘legendary’ Heath Ledger’s acting as Joker, which is laughable, he deserves only a Razzie for it. If you think different you haven’t watched that movie enough times. Try till you’ll have a cold eye.
I feel like Star Wars fans :(.
My personal opinion about the “bomb” aspect of the plot is that it worked. It was a tricky plot device. I felt it worked because Bane clearly states at the football game that the device is a “neutron” bomb. In theory, neutron bombs will leave infrastructures intact. So, Bane’s outlook on society is so twisted – his goal is to eradicate all the citizens of Gotham while leaving the city virtually intact.
did fanboys of The Amazing Spider-man gave them some shit for not liking it? :DDD if so, I like how they handled it 😀
Thats my bane is the best idea
No…. Just…. NO
People bitching about plot holes need to get the fuck over it. One of the first things Mike and Jay say is that this movie is very visceral, and admit immediately that there are many plot holes and that Christopher Nolan is a sloppy director.
I wish to register a complain!
In the old german version of Hänsel und Gretel birds actually picked up the breadcrumbs. Thats why the kids lost their way and ended at the witches hut. It was the second try of the father to get them lost in the woods so he and his wife don’t starve. At the first try H&G had the day before to pick up stones to find their way back home.
The first review to disappoint me. You rightly get on the Star Wars prequels for not making sense, but TDKR is just as bad in that nothign in this film makes any sense. There so many holes and anti-logic moments in this film.
Just a little thing regarding the Hansel and Gretel analogy – the kids initially drop pebbles to find their way back to their father, but later, when all they have is bread, they drop crumbs only to find that the trail has been eaten and they are lost in the forest. Later, they stumble upon the witches confectionary house where shit gets real.
The part where Batman comes back into the city it’s implied that he used the device that shorts out electronics, so it’s wrong when you said he came back without any gadgets. He gave this device to… I forget, Detective Robin or Gordon or whoever… plus its pretty well established that Batman is an ultra ninja. I don’t really see the plothole in him sneaking into a heavily guarded city. At most it was lazy to not show him doing it.
The best movie this year!
C’mon guys, Dark Knight Rises sucked. I guess the filmmakers wanted show how awesomely Batman…. recuperates? He recuperates like a badass twice in the film, once from a serious asskicking. Yay.
I loathed The Dark Knight Rises. I’ve agreed with every HITB review except this one. I couldn’t make it even halfway through until I walked out. I’ve never seen actors so nauseatingly swank.
And I like Christopher Nolan’s work, except The Dark Knight Rises.
The flattest review yet, as if done by sold out apologists. But I can forgive it this one time.
I have to disagree with Red Letter Media on this one. I thought The Dark Knight Rises was a pretty bad movie. It was jumpy, there were hardly any actual Batman moments, everything Bane did could have been done better if it weren’t for CIS/PIS, and Joseph Gordon Levit’s character was useless. The movie came off as unfinished. As a first draft. As half-assed. I get what they’re saying about the whole emotional aspect to Bruce Wayne’s character, and I think the pit/rises metaphor was nice and all, but for me it did not make up for the rest of the movie.
Wow! I’m thoroughly surprised at how viscerally and spectacularly I disagree with you gents. I hated it. I thought Bane sounded like a pissed-off Keebler elf, the villains were stupid, Batman phoned it in, and Gotham is an all-around dumb city. Catwoman is hot, but nowhere near as hot as Michelle Pfeifer’s Catwoman. This reminded me more of the first movie than the awesome second installment.
That first shot of Mike and Jay sitting down with the TV obscuring everything except part of their head had me in stitches for a good ten minutes. I’m not sure why.
[GASP!] I cannot believe you used that kind of language on the internet!
Ok, I have a not-so-good internet connect, and about every 4 minutes I have to refresh the page. It annoys the living shit out of me to have to go through the fucking ad every. single. time. to watch four minutes of this.
They’re talking about plot holes in Inceptcion. What were those? I’ve seen movie two years ago and I can’t think of even one.
Though you don’t care, I’m going to defend the ending with:
Isn’t it completely possible that Bruce knows or has a means of Alfred’s favorite vacation spots or found out where he was? It seemed like he wanted to reassure Alfred that he was alive with that toast. He wasn’t like, “oh shit, my cover’s blown.”
My biggest problem is why no one can get out out of that damn hole. Why even have to make that jump? Shimmy up the rest of the way or do a vertical climb, damn. It wouldn’t bother me so much if it wasn’t an important part of the film that we keep seeing over and over.
What is wrong with comedy central?
have you seen the Kroll Show?
I heard what Dave Chappelle said.
Entertaining? The Dark Knight Rises stole fucking three hours of my life. It was the worst movie I saw since fucking Star Trek Nemesis. Fuck this shit, I’m outta here.
The Dark Knight Rises blew. I was robbed of my time.
I laughed out loud at the midnight showing of this film the first time I heard Bane’s voice. From there it had no redemption. Plot holes, far-fetched action sequences, boring action scenes, and way too many new, boring characters. DKR fans = Phantom Menace fans in my mind. It was that bad.
….And they were watching basketball. Got me again guys
Stop being such a cunt and maybe you’ll start enjoying life.
Is this comment section the only place in the internet that hated this movie? I was starting to feel like the only one who hated it
– Massive plot holes and things that make absolutely no sense to the point where they’re distracting, and that’s saying something when you consider Nolan’s directorial style.
– Laughably terrible choreography and blocking in a lot of the fight scenes (Catwoman/Batman vs Henchmen and Ultimate Gotham Street Battle are particularly terrible). You wouldn’t expect the movie to fail in this regard, but, man, watch some of those fight sequences, seriously
– Baffling storyline decisions (Timing of the Miranda Tate/Talia reveal, Miranda Tate and Bruce Wayne hookup, Liam Neeson’s ghost/memory in the prison)
– Hilarious death scenes/shots (Matthew Modine, Miranda Tate)
– Weird red herrings like, oh I don’t know, Bane’s entire motive which is built up throughout the movie, from the stock market to the long-winded speech which ultimately amounts to absolutely nothing.
– Incredibly useless, ineffectual, and superfluous character in JGL/Hothead. I mean, seriously, why the fuck was he in this movie? What purpose did he serve and what did he accomplish besides making girls and young women buy tickets?
– Weird editing mistakes
– Lazy exposition
– Long or intermittent chunks of totally boring filler bullshit
– Uncharacteristic seeming qualities in a lot of the characters (This is more subjective, but I feel like the underlying story regarding Ra’s, Talia, and Bane really paints Ra’s in a light that seems unbelievable based on all our experience with him in BB. Also, Alfred seems a bit more womanly and bitchy than ever before.)
– Manage to actually make Michael Caine fucking annoying, which I find highly offensive
– For the sake of drama and tension, have Alfred sobbing like a hysterical woman, what, 3 minutes before Bruce Wayne is revealed to be alive? What a waste.
– Moments of dialogue where you’re actually stunned by how horrible the dialogue is
– “No, I came back to stop you.” Bravo, Nolan.
– “WHERE IS THE DETONATOR!? WHERE IS THE DETONATOR!?” Literally laughed out loud in the theater.
– Some fairly ham-fisted plot devices/contrivances like the retarded piece of technology that Catwoman wants or the stupid prison escape nonsense
– Every single aspect of Bane’s prison, the who, what, why, where, how, everything- just terrible
– Bane being written out of the movie with a deus-ex-machina gunshot and a Catwoman one-liner- WHAT THE FUCK!? And this is after he’s been fucking gelded by the Talia reveal. Oh god, it was painful. Then he’s forgotten forever, of course, which makes sense since he was apparently just a stooge the whole time.
– The score was actually not as good as I’ve come to expect from Nolan/Zimmer. Yes, some of it was pretty good, as per usual, but some of it was just fucking weird, nearly cacophonous, and a bit distracting
– I’m sorry, but if you didn’t think the whole “Prison to Gotham in 10 seconds or less” transition wasn’t distracting and even slightly jarring, then you must have been cumming your pants at that point.
– Shoehorned in Bruce Wayne/Selena Kyle honeymooning at the end, alleviating the need to have any kind of meaningful resolution for her character– all too familiar at this point.
– Seriously JGL’s character was just god awful. “lol i can tell ur batman cos were both orphans and i recognize dat pain.” “let me run around with this one small group of children while the whole city is under threat. that’s my role in the climax of this movie. oh look I completely fail to evacuate them from the city, every scene devoted to this is wasted. quinn from dexter shoots at me.” I guess he’s just a hothead with a heart of gold. Nothing against JGL but, to take a page RIGHT OUT OF PLINKETT’S BOOK, this is exactly what he’s talking about with the “Give them something to do” category. And that’s him for the entire movie.
– Bane was a very entertaining villain until Nolan completely castrated him on stage. I was fairly riveted when he was on screen but the rest of the movie was pretty much a snooze fest.
– I liked the Bane voice.
– I thought Anne Hathaway was a pleasant surprise as Catwoman even if I felt the character was badly mishandled in many ways.
– For every eye-poppingly terrible line, there was a pretty strong one to counter it. Most of these came from Bane.
– Nolan does have a way of making his movies spectacular and “visceral”, and despite being a bunch of meaningless (and, in some cases, nonsensical) bullshit that thematically led nowhere, a lot of the early series of events (Stock Market, Football Stadium, Prison, Bane Monologue) were well-shot, well-paced, and exciting if you could ignore how dumb and pointless a lot of it is.
I think Nolan gets by on this razzle dazzling effect of his movies. With the pacing, the cinematography, the score, and the rising action like a crescendo, Nolan films are kinda like a symphony. And while you’re watching them for the first, maybe even the second time, you can easily find yourself wrapped up in them. You might come away from them the first time thinking, “Man, this is one of the greatest movies ever made!” This is especially true with Inception and, to a lesser extent, The Dark Knight. Then you watch them again and you start to notice the stupid bullshit you missed before while you were cumming your pants, or you find yourself getting bored in parts and wanting to skip to the less boring parts. You start to think, “Man, this all seemed so much more cohesive and perfect before.” You can’t put your finger on what’s missing now, and I believe what’s missing is the shock and awe of getting that sensory package for the first few times. But in TDK and Inception, the stupid bullshit, somewhat inane premises, or boring stretches aren’t so bad that they can spoil the overall picture for you, so you kinda fall back into a position like, “Well, it’s pretty good. I’ll probably buy the DVD for that but I’m not willing to put it in my top 20. Solid movie. Above average. Next?”
With TDKR, the stupid bullshit, inane premises, and awful storytelling decisions don’t ever let you get fully immersed in the movie in my opinion. Too many things distract you and take you out of it, even when it can be visually and aurally stunning. You don’t even have that preliminary period after the movie where you feel like you’ve been brought to orgasm, so there’s no later dawning realization or regret when you realize you’ve been hoodwinked by a smart director (which is not so bad, really). With TDKR, you come to your senses mid-coitus and start to feel awkward and dirty and there’s no getting around that.
I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that Nolan DID try to expand the scope of this movie and make it colossal and more epicer than any of the movies before it. And truly, I feel that Nolan’s reach exceeded his grasp on this one.
“I’d like to see a super hero movie with a smaller story” I couldnt agree with you more. Super heros dont aaalllways have to save the entire world. Saving one life is just as important to most of them, and it makes it more personal and accessible. I would love to see an X-Men movie that was “Juggernaut escapes”. Simple, direct and the entire world is not in the balance… just anyone in the way.
Hollywood in today’s climate is not going to take a chance on a 200 million dollar super hero film that doesn’t go for broke. It’s like the “let it all ride” mentality of gambling addicts. They want a blockbuster every time, and they want every comic book film to be a blockbuster. Thus unless they have no expectations from the get-go you’re not going to see any serious super hero films with a smaller story.
I like the fact that TDKR is really a story about Batman, but it would have been nice if it had been a more cohesive story surrounding that character study. Batman is still a superhero film at it’s core, even if you’re trying to tell a more universal story. The first two films managed to do that very well. TDKR falls flat because Nolan does raise the stakes to such a ridiculous level. People keep bringing up the “realistic” tone of Nolan’s Batman films which is why this film seems so out of place and disappointing. People are doing unrealistic things all over the place from sending your entire police force into the sewers to healing a broken back in three months.
You say in one breath you like the realism, but in the next breath you say it’s like a fairy tale which is why you can forgive the plot holes and discrepancies. Fairy tales aren’t realistic, they’re morality lessons. Nolan changes the tone in this film from the previous outings and it sticks out like a sore thumb.
I’m glad you love the movie.
I’m calling bullshit on your Amazing Spider-Man remarks here and in the review you did. Maybe you’re so focused on the studio politics to actually give the movie a chance (as you said you were) or maybe you have a dog in the fight (such as a loyalty to Raimi or Dunst or whatever), but you’re just completely off-base.
Most of the first half of ASM was character-driven and well done. Saying that Ben’s death didn’t affect Peter enough (when it was the entire motivation for him to be a vigilante) or that you didn’t like the actors (Sally Fields’ Aunt May was a real person, rather than some flat generiatric that seemed more suited to indulging Dennis the Menace than showing an actual feeling). Garfield’s Peter was fine, and most of the sporadic aspects of him can mostly be explained as him being of screwed up teenage punk from Queens. This Peter isn’t just an honor roll loser, he’s a shade more 3D than usual incarnations of him. (Also, I just said 3D, lol.)
Sure, the Lizard and his plot had all sorts of problems, and the movie was all over the place in the post-origin half, but to bring Brett Ratner into this is downright offensive. It was a decent movie, assholes.
As for Dark Knight Rises, most of the plot holes mentioned here aren’t that big a deal, but the general sloppiness (the 8 minute chase scene lasting hours) the horrible performances (Talia’s death) the overall indulgence of the director (just as self-indulgent as Michael Bay, you just like Nolan’s self-indulgence).
Not a Nolan hater, but he is overrated. Memento and Inception were both good, but the Batman movies are really uneven.
So, I just watched the Honest Trailers for Dark Knight Rises, and I take it you guys changed your minds after thinking about the film?
Very well-backed critique, Bex. Your comparison to Michael Bay was especially apt. But just as a fyi, calling something overrated doesn’t actually mean anything. It’s the same as saying “I didn’t like it as much as other people”, which, too, is an empty statement. An audience’s reception of a film doesn’t inform anything about the film itself; complaining about it makes you sound like a whiny moron, upset about what other people like. If you want to get upset about people liking movies, there’s a much more serviceable menu out there.
As it’s been well established, you’re either taken by Nolan’s shit and respect the ideas and execution or you don’t. Nitpicking in movies is not exclusive. Everything can be dethreaded to the point of migraine. You either have a connection with what’s happening on screen or you don’t. If the emotional weight of a story is effective enough, minor missteps can often be forgiven–but it requires all the other elements of the film that aren’t sucking to really carry the shit that’s dragging. People tend to agree that Nolan is successful in outshining his flaws with his strengths.
If you want, we can talk about the plot holes and errors in a universally loved movie like…Jaws? Where they could’ve taken a machine gun on a yacht out into the water and had an 80 minute movie? Any of the Star Wars or Indiana Jones films; the contradictions and soft ground in movies like Donnie Darko or The Matrix–Terminator 2 or Alien (there are so many logical reasons to mistrust Ash throughout the film, it almost gets intolerable). People love these movies for a reason; it’s about nuanced storytelling and the emotional weight of the story. The emotional weight of the goddamn story, Bex.
when mike does his impression of the bane voice a bit before 15 minutes, why does he (as the ransomer) say “I’ve got the money”? PLOT HOLE!
“Do whatever they tell you to do. And then just cash that pay check, Webb.” Heahaeheaaheah… I laughed so hard!
A good movie doesn’t always mean entertaining. Look at a movie like Schindler’s List. A very high praised movie but not entertaining. I doubt the critics who praise that movie found it entertaining. RLM probably though Dark Knight was better because of the acting being better and symbolism in the story. They probably think it is less messier than TDKR was (I don’t think it was bad, no way).
I think one of my favorite non-Batman, Nolan film is Insomnia. Such a great movie! The recurring theme in most of his movies is the nature of truth vs perception and that always interests me.
I don’t think they did, they probably just agreed to point out all the plot holes in the film. But, as they state in this and some other reviews from Half in the Bag, plot holes don’t make a movie good or bad.
Like at the end of TDKR: Why is a billionaire known to the whole world and thought dead sitting in a cafe? How would he know the exact time that Alfre would show up? How did he know where to sit so that they would see each other’s faces?
But it really isn’t about that. It’s about the fact that Bruce finally got a happy ending, he has left all the sadness and violence behind, and Alfred got what he wanted, which is to see Bruce finally happy.
Because he’s Bruce Wayne! Wait…
Isn’t that the show where the host begged his parents for a show of his own and he got it, only to put out mediorce, forgettable jokes and material?
Pretty much, given how good he is at disappearing.
“more entertaining then The dark Knight”? Really? I should try ‘Rises” again then. The one and only time i saw it i thought it was terribly boring and filled with many plotholes and inconstancy’s.
I feel like plot hole is a new phrase that everyone has suddenly learned and are trying to use as much as possible. Basically, I don’t think the film’s are ‘realistic’ as much as any dramatic film is ‘realistic’, there is a certain level of plausibility that other action adventure (especially in the context of the source material) films do not necessarily share with it. I think what it all boils down to though is, it was, in my opinion, a very well made action adventure film. With a few slight niggles here and there, I think everyone should stop caring so much and get on with there lives. Because it really doesn’t matter, it really doesn’t mater at all. Better time spent doing something productive and pursuing things you enjoy than spent being pedantic, frustrated and miserable on the internet. No fun for anyone. Also anyone who thought my death scene wasn’t totally convincing and awesome is a liar and a cad. I worked with Kubrick don’t ya know and i’ve heard he’s good, so there.
……you said Brisbane so……American like….
Try a chill pill, will ya?
My problem with Nolan is that I don’t agree with him. I don’t think the arguments he makes are relevant. I find him superficial and stubborn. And maybe biased by this, I think he is mediocre at technical detailing and prone to cheap emotionalisms.
Is that like an euthanasia thing?
This movie felt a lot like watching a starwars prequel in the way you followed the story. Something happens and you just sort of go “Yea, alright then.” rather than feeling the story move forward or some loose end being tied up. And of course, like prometheus, the more you thought about what happened, the more it didn’t make sense, so you didn’t bother.
I just really didn’t like, at the end of the film, that catwoman killed Bain and not Batman. It was kinda like Phantom Menace when for no apparent reason at all, Darth Maul died because he just stood there not defending himself from Obi. It was obscenely convenient and insultingly stupid.
re: the elderly hating Nolan: my parents absolutely despised The Dark Knight, and refused to see The Dark Knight Rises, though they loved Inception. I asked them why they had what to me seemed like an extreme reaction to The Dark Knight, and it turns out they had fond memories of the campy 1960s Batman, and hated Nolan’s darker, grittier, realistic take on it. Joel Shumacher’s take on Batman in the 1990s was right up their alley. They didn’t grow up reading Frank Miller’s and Grant Morrison’s versions of Batman, so I think the idea of grimdark Batman is disturbing and even upsetting to them, when they associate sight gags and puns and bright, happy colors and “boom” “pow” effects with the franchise. To which I will say: give me Miller and Morrison’s versions of Batman anyday.
I’m not 100% certain that you understood what you were typing…
Do you, maybe, want to try again?
Bold, to compare Phantom Menace with Dark Knight Rises, but I think you’ve missed your own point…
Darth Maul died because he just stood around, mouth agape, as a guy sliced him in half. Bane died because somebody, who presumably cared about Batman in some form, killed Bane.
There’s a difference; Batman actually induced feelings into other people in the film, so I felt feelings towards the movie.
As to your Prometheus point; well were you actually bored enough to be poking holes in the movie while you were watching it? I know I was during Prometheus, but Dark Knight Rises? Yeah, I head questions, but I actually wanted to find out how things were resolved, as opposed to committing murder-suicide…
So you thought that after Batman gave Catwoman his motorcycle, and she drove away so she could save herself, she should have driven back to Gotham to kill Batman? And why would she apologize to Batman for helping Bane kill him, if she wanted to kill him herself?
>she should have driven back to Gotham to kill Batman?
My comment was ambiguous. I meant I didn’t like Catwoman killing Bain instead of Batman [killing Bain].
I mean it was like Maul dying in that it was so convenient and unsatisfying.
I was bored. It was the certain absurdities about it. By the time the whole police force was going into the underground I was gone. Then all you can do is sit around and start getting critical. How does someone with destroyed joints and cartilage /get fit/? How could the timer on the reactor calculate to within seconds months ahead when it’d go critical? Why would Bruce be such a cunt to Alfred as to pretend to be dead? There was plenty more things that irritated me but it was all awhile ago now.
The various animated series have all been really good imo. /The/ Animate Series, The Batman of the Future, the recent The Batman.
Oh… I see. Yeah, I guess it’s weird that no one shoots Bane for the whole movie, even though he’s just standing around and anyone could get a clear shot, and then Selina just shoots him at the end with Batman’s gun. So was Batman the only Gotham citizen with access to a gun? That makes the opposite of sense.
It would be a bit anti-climactic if someone shot him early, but you do spend basically the whole movie wondering how and waiting for batman to defeat Bain. Instead Batman has to be saved by the most camp character in the movie.
I’ll agree there. In your defense, I’ll say that most of the emotion in the movie revolved around Batman exclusively, which is quite a shame when the cast is so large.
You’re, of course, right that A LOT of things come straight out of the sun and blindside the audience..,and when you come out with a bazillion questions, something has clearly come off the rails.
I still enjoy the movie, no mistake, but if it wasn’t so – oh! So this is happening I guess…-then, yeah, it would’ve been even better.
What drives me crazy with all of the recent superhero movies is that in an attempt to make the heroes deeper and darker they give them so many problems and weaknesses that they are no longer heroic or fun to watch. Batman, Superman, and even James Bond are now almost completely ineffectual creepy guys who sort of watch as horrible things happen and then belatedly get the bad guy in the end.
The movie is like Homer Simpson jumping over that canyon.
To be honest I’m kinda shocked you guys liked this movie. Structurally, it’s the most problematic of the batman-nolans. Plinkett’s Star Wars and Star Trek reviews pick apart structure the most over anything else, and I think this Batman movie (while obviously better than those wars/trek movies Plinkett reviews)
Bruce made it back into Gotham because he’s the goddamn Batman! That how!
How much did WB pay you two sell outs?
You sound pretty upset they are rich and you are not.
Yes, I am sure grandmas and grandpas totally give a shit about action movies. Trufax.
The Prestige is pretty good (IMO) if you are interested in consuming more Nolan films.
Fun fact: Batman murdered people in his first years of creation.
I always had a problem with how his super realistic Joker tries to push Batman’s morals to the edge by badgering him. It’s almost comical how he just can’t take no for an answer. In comparison, other Joker’s would of just been like, “Alright Bats, we’ll just see about that” while his is trying to rape Batman’s logic. I make it sound better than it is (rape!), but it came off so awkward. Like dude, just make your point or don’t.
And then there is the ending of the Dark Knight which I loathe. The Joker being annoying in all the wrong ways during that one point in the movie I can forgive, but that forced ending is just too much. It could of been a perfect movie (for me, anyways).
I really love the imagery in Batman Begins when he first is getting introduced. The movements in the shadows and all that. I’d of liked more moments of that in The Dark Knight, like seeing people’s reaction to this supposed myth, but instead we get a second bad guy shoved in to try and force another point.
Yeah but compare the amount of plot holes and how much they effect the movie in The Dark Knight and Rises. Which reminds me, I hate the subtitle (title, w/e) of this movie.
The problem that people not understanding Inception comes from Freud. The moment levels of dreams are brought up, people want it to mean something deeper. It doesn’t. It’s just a slipping of reality with an open-ended finish.
Oh, my b, you meant things literally not making sense in Inception. Well, I think it’s perfectly fair to want both emotions and logic in a movie. Personally, it doesn’t bother me if the twisting of the logic doesn’t contradict itself.
It’s impossible because you can care about characters in this movie. Phantom Menace is so bad it’s only redeeming quality is that it has the title “Star Wars” in it. Although, that’s horrible too, because it ruins the taste of Star Wars. Phantom Menace sucks.
I know this, but they did not read the comics. Their memories are of Adam West and Burt Ward camping it up.
note for americans: Brisbane is pronounced briz-bin. Melbourne is Mel-Ben and Australia is Stralya.
doesnt that high voltage poster also make an appearance on the grabowskis?
These were precisely my thoughts when I first saw TDKR, I only started to dislike it because /tv/ told me to
Now I remember why I prefer NZ. You people!!!
Neuwww Zelnd. i love it bro. its sux times better!
I really enjoyed this movie but I would say it is the weakest out of the Nolan Batman films. It had the problem of kind of being a tacked on epilogue to the two part story of the previous films. Batman was built up and then brilliantly deconstructed; where do you go from there? Nolan was skeptical about making a new film and felt hedhad taken the character as far as he could, and I think it shows in this movie.
Still the old District 9 Alien radio..!
The Brett Ratner jokes. I thought his third X-Men movie was just as bad as the first two. A little more hokey, sure, but nothing outside of the lines of a comic book movie.. Which all are not terribly great. Iron Man as a probable exception.
couldn’t disagree more with this revue. Batman’s “story arc” consisted of a crippled Batman rehabbing( with the use of a cool looking high tech leg thing that never comes up again and he doesn’t even seem to need ), becoming Batman again, getting crippled again Rehabbing( again) in an unconvincing way, and becoming Batman again. The ramping up( from the first movie where the League of shadows was trying to destroy Gotham) to the 2nd( where the Joker was trying to destroy Gotham) to the third( where Bane and Raz Al Guul’s daughter was trying to destroy Gotham) was just a matter of making the attempt more overt this time.
Hardy’s voice was laughable. “Catwoman” was supposed to be sympathetic, but I didn’t feel bad for her ” oh, I’m being held responsible for all the bad things I’ve actually done” at all. The fight scenes were pathetically choreographed and poorly filmed/cropped. The reasons Batman decided to help out Catwoman ( a career criminal who showed herself perfectly willing to assault a crippled man) who was trying to clear her name by, comtting still more crimes was ridiculous.
The Robin subplot was awful( Nobody can find the Gordon in this maze of sewe..oh I randomly stumbled on him due to ??? I can tell you’re Batman because I met you once and you had this Batmanny look in your eyes).
It failed on almost all levels.
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