Mike and Jay are paid a visit by the City Inspector! They also talk about Disney’s™ Star™Wars™ Rogue™One™A™ Star™ War™ Story™.
Filed in: Half in the Bag
Sweet!! Firsties! What took you guys so long? Do you have lives or something?
I haven’t watched the entire review, but I disagree with everything you guys say!
Jimmy Smitts (Switch)!
Star Wars just should be the original 3 Movies. Fuck TFA! and all this other nonsense.
We do not need more money grabbing IP-Stuff.
Rogue One sucked.
A 6.0 out of 10 and here is why:
The purposely restrained tone and dourness of Rogue One was a real drag. At two hours running time where you go in expecting a high energy action movie this is not a good thing. It felt like R1 was trying to be more Blade Runner than Star Wars, except without the intelligence, cast, and superior craftsmanship. I understand Rogue One is set during a time of war, but SW has always been able to attack serious issues without ever losing its lighthearted soul.
I watched it in 3D and was like, “Meh.”
Then I watched it in 2D and thought it was pretty good.
Check out Double Toasted’s review if you want to watch a positive, not cynical review of rogue one
Why would anyone want to watch a non-cynical review?
Fuck you guys, the movie was GREAT!! I saw it twice in IMAX 3D, and will see it again later this week. Yea, its a big nod to the og Star Wars, but it was the prequel I wish we had 15 years ago instead of the TPM, AOTC and ROTS crap that we got instead.
The whole thing really just came across as an excuse to link a series of nostalgic imagery together and not much else. K-2SO was the clear stand out character though… In fact, he was the only character that made any impact on me at all. Maybe an extra 30 mins spent in the first half fleshing out Jyn and others would have helped me connect me with them and the story both. The rest was workman like and efficient enough to be watchable. But, yeah, it was ok.
Whoa, if true.
SELLOUT HACK FRAUDS GEORGE LUCAS IS PAYING YOU ALL OFF
Ahwell, we can’t always agree 🙂 I think this movie was very good. But if your perspective is that TFA did better, then we’ll just agree to disagree. Had great fun watching this, even though you say it’s no fun at all.
Really happy with the direction RO took, gimme more 🙂
too bad. rogue one was amazing. way better than TFA. they took chances; and it paid off marvelously. thematic story telling around hope (and ultimately leading to a new hope– putting a new spin on that title); the beautiful scale and imagery; characters were great.
I can’t watch this until later, but based on the comments, I’m guessing they said it was what I thought it would be: a soulless cash grab that tries to get by on nostalgia and fan service.
This movie made my balls hurt
because I sat on them while watching…
I enjoyed it quite a bit.
The characters in TFA were much better- we really got to know who Rey/Finn/Ren were as people. But the overall plot still stuck with so many of the same old same old and ‘rhymed’ too much with other episodes. I loved the first half up to the damn Starkiller Base. Then I just liked it.
This film was better written as a plot, they explain as much as they can the logic of what they do, though some of it is a bit ridiculous. It gives a great retcon as to why the Death Star has a glaring weakness. The action was fun. But the characters were a bit weaker. I wanted to see more of a group dynamic and there really wasn’t much of one, they just happen to end up with each other instead of a gradual journey. But as an actual war movie that kind of works to it’s benefit, it was a war film about nameless soldiers who saved the damn galaxy, none of this destiny nonsense. People died, some out of sheer timing and won’t be remembered, but their deeds will be.
I can’t watch the whole thing but it seems they were kinda meh on it. I can’t wait for their talk on the uncanny valley of returning old characters. It was weird. But kind of good to see them back, logic would say that right before Episode 4 they’d play a role being Rebel/Empire veterans. The technology just isn’t quite there yet to not make them look freakin’ creepy.
Yeah the nods were a bit much but with the plot being what it was they kind of had to do some nodding. Just didn’t need THAT much screentime of zombie Tarkin
I’m glad I watched the cam version. That way I couldn’t tell the CGI was distracting on Tarkin.
This may be the first HITB review that I disagreed with. We sat through 3 prequel movies that sucked, and last years movie, which I loved too, but needed to have something to give us fan service cause we were shat on with the prequel trilogy. So yeah, fan service, CGI Tarkin, Vadar doing badass Vadar things. AT-ST’s actually looking intimidating, AT-AT’s moving quick. Gold leader, Red leader, 70’s porno mustache’s. Call out to Red 5 (now vacant for any farm kid who wants to fight the Empire). LOVED IT!!! (and guys, 35-38 year olds weren’t around for the first two movies … it’s us 46 year old’s, that saw each one in the theater when they originally came out, that needed this prequel to be what it was).
I also liked that we saw actual societies during the Empire’s reign. It wasn’t all bases or open deserts.
Please, go into an IMAX and kill yourself.
I bet you’re fun at parties
I like Donnie Yen and Chinese Heavy Weapons guy, because it showcased that the force don’t have to be some kind of genetic X Men power like the prequels but something universal that anybody at Star Wars can use, Donnie Yen character does have a bit of the force with his luck and aim, which Luke had
I’m tired of forced tragic backstories, forced character growth, and forced relationships with other characters with modern Hollywood screenplays, don’t make Jyn related to the Death Star, have her quit being a resistance fighter only to join them again, just have her be some random rebel fighter that’s doesn’t do that diet Katniss schtick of an emotionaless woman that overly compensate, they should have gotten Charlie Theron she’s better than Felicity Jones and Ridley, she didn’t need a boring flashback… those Mad Max comics are medicore
What’s with Mike need for forced in romance subplots?
I rather watch a movie about K2 mostly
Ha Star Wars Rebels’s Tarkins…. also Dave Filoni fixed Star Wars
I kinda agree both of those reviews
put in more skywalker baby drama and forced comedic moments that somehow won’t clash with the films tone or ending. make the story simpler with more focus on a less realistic female character.. “I don’t want to watch a war movie”, called Star Wars.. it was different but not different enough. why are we mocking fans enjoying the film
Might as well watch Angry Joe jerk harder than Harry Knowles to any mediocre nerd schlock
I don’t agree with these hack frauds!
Now I see that 2016 is determined to mess with me up until the end. You guys liked Force Awakens but not this? Are you kidding me? (Insert that meme with the kid from Freaks & Geeks.) TFA was fine, but this was 10x better. And you must have gone to the wrong theater. Nobody at the showing I went to acted like an idiot fanboy. There was no clapping or shouting or audible comments at the “fan service” stuff (which didn’t bother me at all). I wasn’t bored at all and thought the characters were at least as good as the new ones from TFA.
I can’t believe you guys slobber over the terrible Marvel crap, but this is “boring”. You loved The Arrival with its pummel-you-over-the-head emotional manipulation via a dead kid they kept interrupting the otherwise decent sci-fi storyline with, but this is “boring”. Anyway, I loved this, and I’m not a bearded fat guy. Such a weird year.
Congratulations, you’re the billionth person to post this on the internet. Bonus points for doing it on a comment that wasn’t even all that obnoxious.
I like how all the things they criticize about RO (super safe story, shameless fan service, bad cgi, boring unmemorable characters, crappy ineffective villain) is all present in TFA, but somehow it wasn’t a problem in that movie. Bunch of hack frauds!
Well, Saw Gerera stays behind to die on Jheda because he’s got stiff-ass robot legs. Dude couldn’t make it to the shuttle even if he wanted to.
Thank you. If I hear one more person praise Rouge One and being the best movie ever I’m going to puke. I do like that they went dark and killed everyone, BUT I think it was actually the safest move they could have made. Keeping any of those characters alive would have challenged the original trilogy.
Also can we all agree that Grand Moff Tarkin is now “Grandma Tarkin”? ..just me?
I think it really didn’t get dark enough.
Mads Mikkelsen needed more screentime- if his revenge is destroying the Death Star but we don’t see enough of his perspective on the Empire.
Every time I see rugged Forest Whitaker, I expect a cut to John Travolta holding a severed head, saying “Our friendly bartender!”
Exactly. Not sure how these guys missed that he was old, walked slowly, and could barely breathe. Even running, the other characters barely made it.
75% valid points, 25% jaded neckbeardism
Don’t be silly. Grandma Tarkin is his wife.
She’s at home, making Life Day cookies for their grandkids – Kid Tarkin and Girl Tarkin.
There’s tragedy on both sides in the battle of Yavin.
I am sad they are not wearing rouge on their faces.
I wasn’t interested in seeing this movie, when I first saw the trailer, and I’m still not interested in it at all now. Won’t watch it. Don’t care.
Thanks for supporting my point of view with this review, RLM. 🙂 It is appreciated.
Well… Wisconsin did vote Trump…
I heard “Grandma talkin” and wondered whatever she could be talking about. 😮
Sorry, but it was GREAT, you guys are too jaded and butthurt with this saga. It was a FUN and entertaining movie.
Rich’s laugh fills me with such joy.
3D in this one IS pretty fuckin pointless.
Might be that on the second viewing you already knew the plot and characters and could just relax and watch the movie.
Cause the major complaint I got from my posse of 30-something-men was that the first half was too confusing with the plot rushing by too fast.
I think I might go and check it out in 2D on a matinee, maybe next weekend, when tickets are cheap and the theater is empty.
6/10 is OK.
The suck starts at 5/10. Where TFA is. Just south of the suck line.
I kind of wanted them to show that with the whole family angle. Like Krennic being really nice to Jyn or showing him with his family being a great dad. Kind of like that Cardassians episode of TNG where Picard gets tortured on take your kid to work day.
Give it a cheap 2D matinee try. It’s better than they argue it to be. As a whole.
First half is almost as bad as they present it… but it kinda needs to be in order to present and gather together all those new characters and give them motivation for going on a suicide mission.
What it DOESN’T NEED are all those cameos… But… you know… it’s a Star Wars movie.
Gotta remind the audience that they are seeing things that they recognize.
Totally agree. It seems they are compensating for their rave review of The Force Awakens, which I think was far more guilty of the shortcomings the list here.
I think there are some valid points regarding the lack of “spy drama” plotting in the first half, but thought this was a solid outing overall.
I think this was a far better film than The Force Awakens, and more in the spirit of Star Wars 1977. But if you like Ewoks, you should probably give this film a pass.
This is the first Star Wars sequel I wanted to see based on the trailer. I liked it better than RotJ, better than The Force Awakens. Never bothered with any of the prequels.
Also, I am not fat, have no beard, and do get laid on a regular basis.
Nah… Krennick needs to be creepy and evil, first and foremost.
What he should have done is execute a few people with his own hands.
Like when he orders the engineers shot.
He should have separated one of them, pointing out that he has nothing to do with it all cause he’s a recent addition to the team or something.
Then shoot him to prove the point. Then explain who it is he is looking for.
I got more enjoyment from that film that I did from Rogue One… A lot more.
Not sure how I feel about the Ghost Ship reference.
I ain’t payin’ to watch that shit.
37 minutes to talk about how boring Rogue One was, was in itself a bit boring, but I pretty much agree with everything being said here. It wasn’t fun or interesting, I was bored, Felicity Jones has no presence, yet they didn’t need another plucky brunette, try going blonde for some real diversity (after all, Jen’s father is a Danish actor) maybe Blake Lively, even a pregnant Blake Lively, and having Vader kill the pregnant blonde heroine would have been really horrible, and the correctly transgressive ending, but Disney has no cahonies.
I tried to write a defence of this movie, but thinking back on it was just aggressively mediocre. It wasn’t miserable and the tone was fine. The characters were completely uncharismatic and it failed to tie in at all (eg. only line from original film referring to this event “Many Bothan spies died to get us these plans.” Film doesn’t feature a single Bothan. Also, remember how Leia passes off in the opening scene that the ship was on a diplomatic mission? Apparently, this was a fucking stupid bluff.)
They didn’t even address the possibility that the Chinese guys might be Chinese gays.
They DO act a lot like a married couple…
Yes, Ben Mendelsohn, Forrest Whitiker, Mads Mikkelsen, who are these hack actors, and why did they choose them?
When I went to see Rogue One, a bunch of young kids were crying by the end. Not for kids :/
The Bothan spies line was from Jedi, so it didn’t apply, although I didn’t remember that detail either, so I was thinking the same thing as you until I looked it up.
Oh shit, was it? My bad.
First Star Wars film I wanted to see a second time since the first one.
Just you wait until you find out that Darth Vader DOESN’T say “Luke, I am your father.”
But Nelson Mandela IS dead. Now.
Exactly. If this had been made back then, the franchise would be held in much higher esteem today.
We don’t know how long it was between the end of R1 and Star Wars. Vadar may have been a few weeks behind and was tracking down all sorts of Corellian ships. It ties well enough, and closes a plot hole that the entire space station can come down from a shot to a single 2m wide opening. R1 is awesome, why would you have a hard time writing a defense (I spelled it correctly, btw) if you weren’t already loving it?
Forrest Wicketer? Wasn’t he an Ewok?
How was it a plot hole that an exhaust port happened to allow the station to be destroyed if you got a torpedo in it just right? It may be a dumb contrivance, but it’s not a plot hole. It certainly didn’t require a movie to explain it.
Mon Mothma wasn’t in Episode 4 (Star Wars to us original seers of the movie). I know all these lines like the back of my hand. So don’t pretend to be an expert when you can’t get that shit straight.
Some people think its a plot hole. Just saying they did a nice job making it sound like it was purposely done.
Sure as fuck beats midi-chlorians as far as retcons go.
So yeah, I was displeased with the film and you guys touched on most of the reasons. Again we see eye to eye on things. There is a reason I keep coming back! And that reason is AT-AT’s FUCK YEAH.
But no, I expected greater, cleverer things from this film, and it had the same dumb non-characters that Godzilla 2014 had. I should have known better?
I disagree. I thought there was humor besides K2-SO (though he was most of it), Donnie Yen was cool, and of course so much of Ep 4 was memorable in this movie because it takes place literally up to 2 days before Ep 4. I do agree that Jyn was rather lifeless.
Tarkin looked good but I could have used less of him. Leia bugged me way more because of her eyes.
I think the last 10 minutes were cool but could have been taken out entirely and have been a far stronger movie.
I’m sorry that I didn’t have sufficient knowledge to comment on a movie about magic space samurai. Clearly, Star Wars (thanks for correcting us on a mistake no-one made. Good per-emptive correction on Mon Mothma being in the film. That would have been embarrassing (not really) if anyone had said that) is serious business.
?? Care to explain why? – never mind, I’ve scanned your other posts. You’re a dipshit, pay someone to have sex with you and then maybe you can try to relax.
That’s a pretty high bar to clear.
60 percent is a D Minus. A perfect score describing Rogue One.
Good thing they were the main characters! Oh right they weren’t! Just Blandy McBland and her barely awake accented friend.
Nah, I was just feeling uncharitable and you seemed like you were having a good time, so I acted spitefully in my jealousy. Don’t take it personally.
I’m right there with you. Disney could do a million things with the franchise. Instead they went back and told a story that didn’t need telling in order to trade on the love people had for the original trilogy. The winks and nods were bad enough in the The Force Awakens.
Glad Tarkin worked for you, but I was so distracted every time Grand Moff Dobby the House Elf showed up that it pulled me out of the movie. I was cringing for all the Tarkin and Leia scenes.
I thought Mendelsohn was great, and he was def a major character.
The Bothan line is referring to the 2nd Death Star in RoTJ.
I love that this comment is from a guy with a profile pic of a huge beard.
Crap! Lousy Ceiling!
“”I don’t want to watch a war movie”, called Star Wars…”
Exactly. I thought this was one of the better outings. I don’t get the hate. If you don’t like Ewoks, and know that Han shot first, this film is for you.
I think it comes down to the characters. Rey, Finn, and Poe Damaron are interesting and likeable. There wasn’t a single character (besides maybe the robot) that actually made me sad when they died.
Yes the plot wasn’t as derivative as TFA. but that doesn’t mean the plot is that good, or that the characters are any fun to be around. I really liked the robot and Donnie Yen was okay, other than that, they were pretty blah.
VERY much liked the locations – I agree with most of their points, but they didn’t give the movie enough credit for that.
Better then TFA.
This movie takes place like ten minutes before A New Hope, so I’m not really sure why it’s upsetting that there are TIE fighters, stormtroopers, X-wings, etc.
Dear God, they gave higher praise to Force Awakens… they officially don’t know what’s a good film anymore… Force Awakens was the fan film, this at least had an original plot with winks and nudges to the universe rather than carbon copies of key scenes and set pieces….. you guys seem like you all are looking for a Star Wars film with absolutely NOTHING Star Wars in it. Yes, there are tie fighters, star destroyers, AT-AT’s, etc because it’s FUCKING Star Wars. How do you know they wouldn’t use AT-ATs on a non Hoth planet. As for interesting characters, they were atleast 3 dimensional characters rather than identifying them as the zany one, the dutiful one, the hero, the every man…. Seriously… you all seem to have gotten to the point where you’re just being negative for ratings and psychologically autotuned to be the naysayers for good films and defenders of the bad (i.e.- Prometheus, Jurassic World, Independence Day 2). New Hope had its slow story development moments, so did Empire Strikes back, feel like you all can no longer handle watching films that balances slow paced character building and fast paced action scenes
Here’s my ranking of the 8 feature films out thus far. Let the flame wars begin.
Ep. 7 > Ep 5 > Ep 4 > Ep 6 > Ep 3 > Rogue One > Ep 1 > Ep 2 > The Clone Wars (animated film)
I’m not one of those prequel apologists either. Those were a fucking mess. But Revenge of the Sith is easily more rewatchable and even enjoyable than Rogue One, which let’s be honest, made so many bad decisions that they all cascaded, or should we say, Phantom Menaced into a massive misfire of a potentially great film.
This movie takes place literally hours or a day or days before A New Hope. The reason why there are storm troopers and tie fighters and the Death Star and Mon Mothma and Rebel ships and R2 and C-3PO and Tarkin and all the rest of the stuff from Star Wars is because it WOULD NOT MAKE ANY SENSE if it wasn’t there. There is no nostalgia or fan service. The Star Wars stuff is there in the movie because IT HAS TO BE. The characters ALL DIED.
The characters don’t have to be that great and live in our hearts forever because THEY ARE ALL DEAD.
It doesn’t have to be there. They could have had one connective thread instead of 100.
I was thinking the same thing.
Original film takes place over a couple of days. I’d like to watch Star Wars ’77 right after watching this one.
Bringing back a dead actor through computer effects was in poor taste and jarring. No-one can honestly say that they looked at the abomination that was Peter Cushing’s video game face and say that it was a believable flesh and blood actor, exchanging dialogue with another.
They think Rei was charismatic…. They say cut out the nods in this film but didn’t have as many issues with the carbon copying the Force Awakens made… like comparing a nod to a punch in the face….. I’m deciding whether or not to stay an RLM fan right now, I really can’t believe how jaded and cynical they’ve become and backwards where they could like the Force Awakens okay, yet hate so hard on this film
Love wasn’t earned at the end of this film? But the Finn and Po friendship in the Force Awakens was tolerable right?
They could have just not made the film at all? That would have made more sense.
Wow, you sure do take space stories with laser sticks super-serious!
Tarkin looked awful. Leia looked worse. Gold leader get’s a pass just because you see more helmet than face.
CGI of dead actors is in very poor taste, and was my biggest problem with the film.
It is what it is fellas. Fortunately there are so many good, original movies made nowadays that you can just watch this one and completely forget about it.
Call it being disillusioned by the RLM crew, not necessarily for the film reviewed; but how hard they laid into it especially since worse was done in Force Awakens, yet they gave that film a pass
Dear God, did they like Prometheus?
Gold leader wasn’t CGI but was an edit from the original Star Wars. Tarkin looked great and I like he did more than just stand there and say a single line. He was a true character in the film.
Well, remember they gave Force Awakens a rave review (Mike “loved it”), but then walked back the enthusiasm in the Plinket review.
Force Awakens made me squirm, I thought it was awful.
These guys have always been massive hipsters and contrarians. I lost respect for them some time ago. They are just sellout / tryhards since their successes.
The Plinkett negative critiques almost seemed forced though, and alot of the review seemed to almost defend it
I never had ‘respect’ for them, but I atleast seen them as fair where if they hated or liked one movie or aspect for certain reasons they would like/hate a similar movie for the same reasons. Liking the Force Awakens, yet ranting and hating on this film like they did was very unfair and biased on their part
Wait until R1 comes out on disc. Then watch it and then watch A New Hope RIGHT afterward- not the Special Edition – the original version – and everything will make sense. Agree, Yoda does.
OR, watch R1 in the theaters, run home in the snow and watch A New Hope – the original version.
Rey, Finn, and Poe Dameron are interesting and likable? Really? I didn’t get that at all. Though the Rouge One characters aren’t exactly Luke/Leia/Han etc., I really did find them more interesting than TFA’s new characters. Now, Rey, Finn, and Poe will probably get more fleshed out personalities in later films, but in TFA they were very one dimensional to me.
And I shed a few tears during the deaths of RO’s little band of rebels, but I’m a crier.
Perhaps I’m simple, but I thought the plot was fine and I liked the way everything tied together with the original Star Wars.
The last two minutes were embarrassing? Really? The last minute or so is absolutely the best part of the film. I agree the first hour was pretty dour and boring. And I hated some of the fan service too. But that last scene was fucking epic. How soulless and full of yourselves have you hipsters become. Sad.
Like “dangling a shiny object in front of a cat”. wow. Could you be more insultingly dismissive and cynical? Of course, the world is just full of idiots, but not you guys. You don’t fall for such obvious fan service. Fucking pathetic. You guys are dead inside, aren’t you. Just wow. I wasn’t expecting you guys to gush about this movie, but only 16 minutes in and you make me want to force choke you out with this insipid hipster drivel. Get over yourselves.
Your avatar looks a lot like Bruce Campbell
I don’t always see eye to eye with the RLM crew, (I, er, for one, kind of like Man Of Steel) but I largely agree with their opinion of Rogue One; I came out of the movie disappointed, just like I did with TFA. I was disappointed in Ep7 for different reasons, and I have warmed to it upon repeat viewings… I guess time will tell whether I appreciate RO more as time passes, too.
My biggest issue with the film was the poorly written exposition-heavy dialogue, the result of which meant I didn’t care for most of the characters, was bored, and the ‘tragic’ finale didn’t resonate with me at all. I am open to the idea of a Star Wars movie with a different tone, but I really hope the film-makers spend more time on the script and fully commit to the idea next time! Ep7 was a re-tread, but it was largely well written, and I cared about the characters both old and new.
The art design was stellar, although I’d argue the Star Wars movies have never really faltered in that regard. I enjoyed some new elements like the planetary shield gate, Death Star vulnerability explanation, and the kyber crystal/jedi temple stuff.
The interplay between Krennic and Tarkin was interesting, but completely marred by the misjudged application of a technology that still isn’t mature enough to sell itself. I personally didn’t mind Leia at the end so much as she was only on screen for a few seconds.
Overall RO missed the mark for me, but I wouldn’t call it ‘poor’, or ‘bad’… it was just average, and for now Star Wars can get away with average.
The whole project is nostalgia and fan service. That’s WHY it’s set days before A New Hope. I’ve seen people call RLM cynical in these comments, but I can’t imagine them doing or saying anything as cynical as this movie is. And you guys are eating it up.
I thought Tarkin looked great. I didn’t realize he was CGI; I thought it was a real person that looked like the original actor with a little CGI makeup. So did the two other people that I saw the movie with.
These guys don’t give a fuck about spoiling a movie do they? They’re spoiling this movie right out of the fucking gate.
They get the plans to Leia in the end.
Am I the only one who still wants to see this movie.
22 minutes and I’m done. When you can’t even recognize why it’s a GOOD thing that everyone died, and suggest the movie didn’t even NEED Tarkin. You couldn’t be more off base. To have a movie in this time period, and NOT have Tarkin, is fucking idiotic. It absolutely did need Tarkin. Though I would have used him more sparingly. Maybe even just had him from behind, with slight reflection of his face in the window. And leave it at that. Because he did look creepy. Or maybe he could have been a hologram. BUT TO TELL THIS STORY WITHOUT TARKIN IS FUCKING IDIOTIC. And having everyone die was a GOOD idea. I am completely stunned by the idiocy of this “review”. Shameful and pathetic.
So you’re saying since we know the outcome of the movie, revealing details about what happens in it isn’t spoiling it? That’s some pretty bizarre logic there dude.
I can’t believe you motherfuckers made me wait a whole weekend for this. I NEARLY SAW THE MOVIE!!
In HG Well’s War of the Worlds (the book), after the Martians die off from the common cold, the human scientists start digging through the alien technology trying to figure it out.
While their investigating they discover that the Martians never invented the wheel. They have some sort of sliding level system for the joints of the tripods. That’s why they have tripods and not tanks or whatever. It sounds weird, but the Inca’s never invented the wheel and they had one of the most complex road systems in the ancient world.
I always assumed, like many other classic scifi gimmicks, Lucas ripped that off, because you never really see wheeled vehicles in the star wars universe. Greevus has that hamster wheel on Utapau, and the CIS has that weird donut vehicle on Geonosis, but neither of them have an actual axle, which is what makes a wheel a wheel, and not just a round thing.
But there was a tank, and a truck in this movie.
Initially that pissed me off. Just stripping a unique aspect of the Star Wars universe away, the film makers probably didn’t even realize it was a thing in the first place.
But then I thought, maybe that’s just a facet of the conceit of the movie. These are things that exist in the Star Wars universe, that you just haven’t seen yet. Wheels exist, they’re just idiosyncratic aspect of this backwater planet
But maybe I’m giving them too much credit.
Guess what, you can ruin a movie for someone even if you seen its sequel first
Be a daywalker. Second-run theaters, babe. All the strengths of seeing it at a theater, none of the laments about shelling out $12!
You still should, their critiques are unfair and biased. The nostalgia rape was worse in TFA, in this film it’s more like a gentle cuddle
I loved Force Awakens, myself, even with its flaws. That’s because I was loving and rooting for the characters. With characters I can get behind, I can forgive a lot of other flaws. What Rogue One lacked was establishing the emotional grounds for the characters. I mean, it was supposed to be there, I could see some half-handed attempt at it, but I felt nothing. Not sure if the blame lays with the director, the script, the actors, or a mixture of those three, but there we are.
And I would say that half of the RLM fanbase just want to hear people that shit on movies, and don’t really care if its deserved or not.
They lost me at about 4.5 minutes in when Jay stupidly says “this is the story of how the rebels go the plans…. who cares?” Fucking Star Wars fans care you dumb hipster! The backstory about the opening credits in A New Hope about the Rebel’s first victory against the Empire was a fucking awesome idea for a Star Wars movie.
So you’re saying you cared about Rei, Finn, and Po…..? Was it the two minutes Finn and Po had together to establish they’re best friends or the pocket pulling Finn was doing that established he liked Rei?
I enjoyed The Force Awakens, and while I -liked- Rogue One, I wouldn’t see it a second time. I really can’t defend a movie by saying “Listen, the first hour is boring and you won’t give a shit about characters because they aren’t developed very well… AFTER THAT THOUGH, OH MY GOD.”
Wow, they have the some of same cool vehicles, weapons and characters that we saw in the movie that this one is backstory to. That’s your fucking complaint, dudes?
I was thinking of how Tim Burton did Orson Wells in Ed Wood.
He got Vince Denofrio to be the body, the got the brain from pinkie and the brain, to be the voice.
They could have done that and then touched it up with CGI, it would have been much more convincing.
I’m glad I saw the movie this weekend because it was the best Star Wars movie since at least Return of the Jedi and possibly Empire, and they spoil the fuck out of the movie while they unfairly shit on it with this cynical shitty shit review.
Yep! Finn and Poe in their little scene managed to do way more for me in that little time. It could straight up be the charisma of those actors that sold it. I was also invested in Rey from almost the very beginning. I connected more with those characters.
I was expecting to connect to the Rogue One characters. I like the actors. I love Donnie Yen and Alan Tudyk and I’ve seen Felicity Jones in some amazing roles (she was great in Theory of Everything for instance).
I think it might be in part Gareth Edwards’ fault (I had the same exact problems with his Godzilla characters), but also in part movie-by-committee reshoots that changed the movie drastically from what we thought we were going to get in the trailers. I had just as much difficulty emotionally connecting with this cast as I had with the Prequel cast. The script wasn’t as embarrasingly awkward as the Prequel scripts, but it was still missing essential character moments only to throw in absolutely pointless dumb shit like that Artoo/Threepio cut on Yavin.
For me, that absolutely makes or breaks a film.
Are you gonna be alright?
I dunno. I think using “ALL CAPS” is a terminal symptom.
HEY REMEMBER STAR WARS????!?!?
I made this post on Dec 14th: We will never have a new “Star Wars” as long as this aging, crippled
King refuses to leave it’s long dilapidated throne. It’s beyond
depressing that the largest budgets in cinema are dedicated to rehashing
old ideas with seemingly no interest in doing anything unique or
original. Hey….Remember Star Wars? Hey….Remember Spider Man?
Hey….Remember when not every movie was a rehash of a forty year old
Just did. Thanks. I think those guys got it.
RLM just got the Star Wars film they’ve been asking for all this time, and then they shit on it.
Everybody knows Kyle Katarn stole the death star plans in the first level of a tie-in video game from 1995 that was made to capitalize on Doom.
One of my all time favorites! Love that game still!
So nobody liked this movie? That’s a shame I was looking forward to this one 🙁
That would’ve been good too.
Also, Asian guys…
Was there some significant to the ethnicities of the two Asian actors? Because it kind of felt like a buddy cop team up. As though you wouldn’t expect to see guys like them hanging out together. He’s an Muslim, he’s a pig farmer, THEY’RE COPS!!!
I had a theory that maybe to an Asian audience, that might have some addition meaning a western crowd wouldn’t get.
I didn’t hate it. I think it was painfully, painfully middle-of-the-road, which in some ways is a worse sentence than being godawful like Attack of the Clones or Jupiter Rising.
I live in a city where there are people of different ethnicities. First of the franchise that didn’t look like it was populated by frequenters of suburban shopping malls.
Kind of weird that this is an issue with RLM, but “Wisconsin.”
Finn used Po to escape, Po hugged Finn and smiled… great development. Rey was an abandoned girl with no motivation to help the Republic at all aside from being a fangirl of Luke Skywalker and Jedi. Kylo’s motivation was he wanted to be as awesome as Darth Vader… AMAZING PLOT DEVELOPMENT
Jyn had motivation, watched her mother die, her father taken by force, and raised by a Rebel extremist who she watched die, and then even watched her father die knowing everything he did was to stop the weapon. Jyn and Cassian’s relationship started with desires to see her father and desires to assassinate her father but through their adventures and saving eachother’s asses (Leia and Han anyone?) They started to like eachother even though they early on distrusted one another.
Lastly, if you thought Artoo/ Threepio cut was bad, you must have HATED all the unnecessary dialogue and awkward attempts at comedy they had in TFA. As well as pulling the rotting husks of Harrison Ford and Carrie Fisher out of retirement…
Seriously, you all don’t know what good storytelling or bad storytelling is anymore
It is a 1.5 star that could be a 3 star with literally a fan edit cutting fan service and digital actors and some really stupid dialogue from Vader and characters that did not have the relationship the film pretends they did (little sister line is laughable).
It would still be a weak 3 star because we do not have enough backstory about the father and daughter. Also the villain is an idiot who does not know what leverage is or a stun setting…guns said leverage down in the first few minutes of the film. He is a even a weaker villain than Kylo Ren was if that is possible.
No I loved this movie. It was the best Star Wars since at least Return and maybe even Empire. Don’t listen to those cynical hipsters. They are just inventing reasons to shit on this movie. Jay’s comment at around 4:30 says it all “This is the story about how the Rebels get the plans to the Death Star…. who cares?” Anyone that’s a Star Wars fan cares, you dope!
(Also is that you in your avatar? If so do you have an instagram or something so I can see more photos of you?)
It is called the Chinese box office demographic. Simple as that. Decision made in a board room before the script was probably written. Got to have some Chinese guys in there. Maybe some martial arts!
They fired the Death Star too many times. I was hoping that the first firing would be a dud, accompanied by the sounds of a bad starter motor.
Yep. I got bummed watching the characters die in Rogue.
As soon as I left the theater I wanted to watch SW ’77.
That’s a good example of how they had to overcome a problem with the limitations of the technology at the time. I was quite surprised at the decision to use CGI in this instance, given that Edwards has a more traditional approach to shooting film.
I loved it. far and away the best thing since Empire. Does it have problems? Yes, but its nitpickery in my opinion. Totally worth seeing in the theater.
A gem from doctorr’s disqus account.
“Nolan’s Batman movies are way overrated, and this new movie is way underrated (Batman vs Superman).”
On his “Anyone that’s a Star Wars fan cares, you dope!.” And they already had that with Kyle Katarn. This is a shemake. Starkiller is more compelling that Jyn. So is Kyle Katarn. Video game characters…Also HK was a much funnier and compelling droid. Everything this movie that fanboys claim to be “right” is a poor imitation of source material that already existed.
Sad to even be a Star Wars fan. The fanboys of the franchise are making them look like idiots. Star Trek Beyond was a MUCH better film that this. It just did not have Disney marketing and drooling fanboys promoting it and defending it.
Jawa Sandcrawler had tank treads in ANH.
Thanks. Exactly my criticism of Force Awakens. In SW ’77 it took the entire film before Luke and Han are friendly.
Several games and books had different ppl steal the plans. It had been explained that no one place had the complete schematics
Oh, I have lots of nitpicks with the movie. The rathtars scene was completely pointless, Rey was in fact a Mary Sue, the ANH retread was there though the use of yet another Death Star was the worst part of it, for me. There are many flaws and issues, but I connected with the characters, and that’s what made the movie stick for me.
I mean, we’re talking Star Wars films here, not Godfather I & II, or To Kill a Mockingbird, or No Country For Old Men. In films like Star Wars or the Marvel series, what matters is being invested in the characters. There are a lot of things that can go wrong that create roadblocks to making that connection, and film/books/tv are art, and very subjective.
Rogue One failed for me. I’m glad it didn’t fail for everyone, or it would be a waste, but I didn’t set a very high bar for it to past. I went in hoping to have fun and get invested in a few new characters. That didn’t happen for Jyn, or Cassian, or the adorable Gaysian couple. It kind of happened for K2-SO but not as much as I’d have liked. The villain was weaker than I hoped, too, and he played second fiddle to Tarkin and Vader’s screen time, which would have been like Jyn sharing half her screen time with Luke and Han getting almost as much dialogue as her.
The Plinkett reviews will always be glorious. But these guys have become jaded as fuck. How you can hate this movie when you knew what it was going to be about and love the TFA when we were bullshitted into watching a fucking remake is beyond me.
I’m sorry that Rogue One wasn’t as shallow, obvious, and transparent as TFA
You know a movie failed when you are pretty much rooting for Vader to cut the “heroes” into pieces. You have no emotional connection to the characters so you just don’t care. I was not cheering for Vader to kill Leia or Luke or Han. We care so little about the heroes we are kind of left wanting the “main characters” to have been in that hallway. I felt like I was gypped that I did not get to see Casio Endor cut into pieces and thrown out a airlock. Funny thing is I left the movie not even remembering his name like Rich Evans.
I love how people like you call them jaded and then are annoyed that they gushed about Force Awakens in the same breath.
Actually, I was implying the project is pointless, so who gives a shit about spoilers?
Possibly because it is hypocritical of them to do so, maybe?
I didn’t even care enough about the characters to want them to die. I just went, okay, here’s the checklist, let’s start checking them off. Oh wait, Cassian wasn’t dead? What a lame cliche movie moment to have him show up again, and the unearned death on the beach with Jyn and Cassian. /shrug
I’m flattered you’re so moved by my opinion that you’re stalking my disqus account.
Eh, it’s fine. Not a masterpiece, but a solid, entertaining Star Wars movie. It’s gotten generally positive reviews. A lot of people I know think it’s better than TFA. Personally I preferred TFA because in spite of its corniness I really liked Boyega and Ridley, but if I’m being honest this one probably has a more solid story.
But how can you be jaded, while gushing about TFA?
Normally, I agree with you, and Mike Stoklasa in particular. You’re right about the prequels. But you’re totally off base on this one. As Fake Plinkett said, Star Wars has been too limited in its cinematic universe — but Disney took more of a risk with Rogue One than it did with the soft reboot The Force Awakens. You denounce the film as too dour, but surely this makes sense given that this *war movie* is about an obvious suicide mission, since these characters all had to die in order to maintain continuity.
When Jay say who cares about how they got the plans but doesn’t care that the TFA is a remake with nothing original is very annoying.
Good. Goooood. Let the butthurt flow through you…
You take my not liking Rogue One way too personally, but on the flip side, you picked a suitable username!
I want basing the jaded thing on just two reviews.
A right click and 10 seconds scanning comments is not stalking, especially when you make them public (there is an option to hide them). Anyways good luck finding the safe space you seek.
Agreed with that. That was a non-issue for me. Part of it I think was just roasting the fandom in general, which I come to expect from them at this point, lol. That first couple minutes of this video was totally on point but went on too long for my tastes. The meat of the review though seems to match up with how I felt about the movie, and that still seems to be the case more often than not with RLM and me.
I guess people that think backstories can be interesting and are not necessarily pointless. I also like “Better Call Saul” and “The Hobbit” believe it or not, I knew going in how they were going to turn out. Btw, do you often spend time discussing movie reviews that’ you’re not interested in, or is this an anomaly?
Lots of fan service!I really liked the movie.. I think im the target audience for all that fan service.
Because they were bored and annoyed with this film by the same thing they were gushing about in the other film. Pretty sure he’s referring to the hypocrisy
You guys aren’t getting it.
Tango and Cash… Tango is wildman, Cash is by the book. The Heat of The Night, he’s a southern sheriff, he’s a black city cop. Didn’t Dirty Harry get teamed up with either Cagney or Lacy at one point?
The opposite buddy cop partners plot gimmick. They start up hating each other, they end up best friends. It’s a classic.
What I’m saying is that I wonder if there was some significants in the ethnicities of the actors that were cast for those two roles, that we don’t get because we’re western.
But an Asian audience would say, wow, what are those guys doing together, giving their friendship more dramatic weight, and giving the audience a uplifting ‘can’t we all just get along’ message when they die for each other.
Then again maybe not.
“you knew what it was going to be about”. No we didn’t. They cut footage from the trailers in the movie, cut idiotic lines and paid Tony Gilroy 5 million dollars to make this movie even watchable because it failed with test audiences so hard. He simply did not have enough time to polish a turd. At least he made it passable for the fanboys though.
“Stalking” is a figure of speech, silly. I’m sorry the term got your panties in a bunch though; sounds like you’re gonna need that safe space yourself.
Yeah, I guess that’s true.
like one is Korean, the other Chinese? Interesting.
I think they had the Seven Samurai vibe. Buddhist monk/Mercenary conflict.
Again, surprised so many fans have a problem seeing asians in the franchise.
Although a scifi-kungfu-fantasy movie could be cool, Kung Fu tropes in Star Wars seems so wrong – wearing slippers while kicking stormtroopers in their helmets, dodging bullets while explicitly not being a force-user… Donnie Yen phonetically reading dialogue due to lack of English-speaking ability… Speaking of which, Forest Whittaker was comically bad. I laughed the most at the funny robot, but the other funniest parts were “don’t CHOKE on your ambition” and the entire buildup to Whittaker dying.
Nope, not butthurt…. comparing Rogue One to Godfather was a compliment. I’m just sorry it wasn’t dumbed down to your level that you might be able to enjoy it
They needed some force stuff (google search whills). Force was kind of Asian in philosophy. TFA kind of failed in China. That simple man. 🙂
Board room decisions. That is why they have TM all over the info on this video and why Max Landis made several funny TM posts on this movie.
I expected Vader to kill “Not-Rey” then complete the mission himself by sending the plans to Tantive IV, because it’s part of the Emperor’s ploy to destroy the rebels.
Making the efforts of the heroes mute.
The movie was average as fuck thou…
Remove the Star Wars refs and it’s a half decent Scy-fy original.
Given the original film is loosely based on Kurosawa’s The Hidden Fortress, I’d disagree.
That would still be a passing grade.
Though, personally, I gave it a 7/10. It was far more entertaining than anything Star Wars in the last 20 years.
Well… apart from the Plinkett reviews.
I just can’t understand why they insist on liking TFA. Is it general disinterest, did they just glance at it, or did they really watch it and really like it? Because then I just can’t take them serious anymore, that movie was such an extreme abomination, It’s like a watershed movie: everything is wrong with that turd. The plot is a complete mess, the ‘characters’ are cringeworthy, the shameless rehashing. These guys should be more perceptive than fall for the biggest scam in recent movie history.
You fucking hacks have given this movie the review you should have given the Force Awakens, while missing what’s good about R1. For a start, just to briefly address your defence of TFW, Rey had the luxury of being a character being introduced for a trilogy, so could have a lengthy introduction, but she still lacks charisma or wit. Jyn Erso is also dead behind the eyes but her entire arc had to be compressed into one movie, so the makers didn’t have the luxury Abrams had with Daisy Ridley’s character. Still, you’re right – better shorthand could have been used and the character could have had a personality. Agree there could have been fewer principle characters but then presumably the rationale was that the scale of the task made it a team effort. I thought the fact the rebellion didn’t endorse the plan or validate the threat, was a positive; an example of the movie subverting expectations not sticking to the New Hope/ROTJ formula. Every time the screenplay took a chance like that, maybe made the journey less straightforward than it could have been, it rolled the dice with an audience who might have preferred a rote set of heist movie cliches. Like you fucks.
Which brings us on to your critique of the plot, namely that it wasn’t just an obvious set of derivative heist movie cliches. It reworked Star Wars beats and complications, sure, and that does show the limit of the imagination currently being invested in these play-it-safe Disney SW movies, but let’s give Edwards and co. some credit for a) not making it Ocean’s 11 in space and b) recognising that as a direct New Hope prequel you couldn’t make the prologue too similar to the main story. So your idea that the plans for the Death Star should have been ON the Death Star, would be idiotic, as it would mean the heroes of this film, having acquired the schematics, left without trying to signal an attack or destroy the station themselves. They’d also be treading ground that Luke and co. will cover in the very next movie, thereby robbing those moments of novelty and intrigue. That’s the next act, cockends. This is a movie that understands where it sits in the chronology, so is careful not to undermine or ruin moments from New Hope. Give it some credit for not making the same error as the prequels, even if the characters are still one note (though much better integrated into the story). And acknowledge, if you can, that the struggle depicted and the human (and droid) cost, and the nature of the Galen Erso arc, lends the original movie a bit of weight, as well as filling in a plot hole. The prequels sure as fuck didn’t do that. So maybe they botched it by not as you say hanging it on charismatic antiheroes and properly defining the relationships – that’s a monster design flaw, but it’s better than lazy fan service. And by its nature – a story set in the days prior to the first movie, if it didn’t remind you of the original trilogy, featuring familiar elements, would be a little weird. It focuses on new characters who are part of a bigger story – the exact thing you fucks argued the prequels should have done. If I were Gareth Edwards, I’d say I can’t win with you hacks.
I’d also say don’t see this movies with fanboys as their reactions might have conditioned your reading. You’re reviewing the movie, not the audience.
I gave it a B+
The dwarf and the elf in lord of the rings. They overcome their ethnic hatred to become best friends. Watching characters defeat racism makes the audience feel good. They do it in movies all the time.
The blind guy looks like he could play a Chinese aristocrat, and the other guy looked like he could play Genghis Khan. Not so much nationalities, that’s too political. More racial.
Is there significance to that? I don’t personally know. That’s why I asked.
Note to fanboy keyboard-pounders. The “Enter” key is your friend.
Most people liked TFA on initial release. Notice they say “in hindsight” and they addressed that in the Plinkett TFA review.
Main reasons people loved TFA at release. Because it felt like Star Wars and people were desperate for that. A lot of why it felt like Star Wars was because it was a direct ripoff of A New Hope.
Also the actors in TFA were WAY better than this. Yup TFA was a fraud, ripoff of A New Hope. It still appealed to a large demographic and was a good popcorn flick though.
I liked TFA the first time I saw it. Then I went and watched Harmy’s despecialized edition A New Hope and realized I had been conned. No one is perfect. That being a fraud ripoff does not make this new film good though.
Both Jyn and Rey kinda sucked and the rest of the cast of both their movies were better and more interesting. Thanks!
That movie was entertaining and likable. There is no reason to get angry about it. It’s like complaining about ice cream.
Note to neckbearded mouth breathers. Reading rather than criticizing can be your friend
They get a lot more activity on their site if they bash something successful, or praise a piece of shit. That = $
Their praise of TFA and condemnation of R1 is just to generate advertising revenue.
I like the RLM reviews, even if I don’t care about the movie. And I’ve rather enjoyed the fanboys going ballistic in the comments.
I didn’t find it entertaining nor likable. I hated it almost from the start and it only got worse. And I’m more passionate about movies than fucking ice cream.
I thought it worked fine. First time I’ve disagreed with you guys. But that’s fine. I still love your reviews and you’ve been spot for me every other time. can’t agree every time.
You disagree that Chinese Kung-fu movie tropes are out of place in Star Wars because the series was partially inspired by a Japanese Samurai movie?
This is spot on.
I just think that says more about you than the movie.
Getting angry about that movie is just weird.
I suspect it’s your only friend.
It’s one of the most annoying pieces of crap ever made. I can stomach any stupid Michael Bay action movie or blow’em up and kick’em in the nuts type of movies, but this piece of crap managed to actually offend me.
RLM was built on the premise of hating the Star Wars prequels, so I’d say it’s in the spirit of this site.
There’s actually 3 Asian guys.
The pilot is a British Pakistani.
You may know him from such films as Four Lions. Where he’s the reasonable rebel… I mean terrorist.
The one who blows himself up inside a pharmacy. So it’s kinda hilarious that he gets blown up in this one too.
He was also in Road to Guantanamo.
Which makes the bag on head and torture/interrogation scenes a whole nother kind of funny.
Yeah, that’s weird.
Your like the man who though his wife was a hat, except you think something mildly amusing was the worst thing in the world.
That makes no sense whatsoever. Why are you on a movie-forum to tell people they shouldn’t get all riled up about movies? Talk about weird. Also, if you could actually relate to Finn and Rey, you migh want to check your own wife isn’t a hat.
No. The spirit of this site in analysis. That’s all they do is analyze film.
They aren’t just a bunch of monkeys throwing shit at the screen.
watching this before seeing the actual movie #yolo
Yeah, I know the difference between Chinese and Japanese culture. I live in the Bay Area, not the midwest.
But again, there are a lot of comments on this thread (including yours) complaining about the presence of Asian actors in this film. The dichotomy I’m talking about is East/West not Japan/China
You shouldn’t…. watch it and make up your own mind first
Oh I get now. You’re trolling. Cool. Enjoy yourself.
Um, I think they are quite good at analysis, but come on, they throw shit at the screen as well.
They explained that: TFA had likable characters, if an unoriginal story, whereas this had neither an interesting story, nor likable characters.
No I’m saying your reaction to the film is strange.
If I watched porn and got a boner, that would be normal. If I watched A Charlie Brown Christmas and got a boner, that would be strange.
Your reaction is not appropriate for the material. Its strange that that movie would make you angry. It’s unusual, in that it was relatively popular, and its hard to understand why a person would think that way.
Most people either liked it or were like, yeah whatever, and moved on.
I thought they were great, in any event.
Responses like this are ironic as they come off as an analogy to the film they are defending—It’s just shit on the screen.
They are complaining that a film that takes place immediately before A New Hope has nostalgic imagery… Grade A analyzing right there
They like Extro. They like SOS. They like the counterfeit beanie baby video.
The point isn’t to stew in an impotent puddle of rage and misanthropy, they like what’s good and dislike what’s bad, the way you’re supposed to.
We’re talking about TFA.
I passionately hate underwritten characters, almost as much as I hate idiotic plots, combine that with a love for the Star Wars mythology, thow in a little dumbing down the force and anger is what you get. BTW: a lot of people hate that abomination, just scroll through these pages to get a drift. I also like RLM, find them funny and often insightful, which is why their praise of TFA just baffles me.
But they get super fired up over Adam Sandler crap.
No, you were talking about the ‘spirit’ of the site, and this review is ‘a part’ of this site so…
He deserves it.
Enjoyed reading this, thanks for taking the time to write it. Didn’t really like RO but can’t disagree with your points!
I agree. He deserves it and more. My point is that they don’t pull their punches and do get pretty hateful at times.
And I’m ok with that.
I don’t disagree with you but that’s not what we’re talking about.
It’s sound like some people just come here to vibe off hate, which, in my opinion, totally misses the point.
But not just to hate.
Adam Sandler is a chiseler. He deserves to get called out. But as bad as Troll 2 is, there’s nothing hateful in the way they talk about it. …or Matt Bannon … or Len Kabasinski.
There’s a lot of love there.
Most successful haters in the game right here. Still haters tho. Still gonna ain’t.
Yeah and there’s people that troll children’s plays on youtube. Some people are just angry.
Like seriously, you could literally say anything in those ridiculous voices and make it sound stupid.
TFA deserves to be called out just as much as Adam Sandler, if not more. Just because it looks good doesn’t mean it gets a pass on the atrocious writing. If anything, they should be harder on TFA. Sandler makes comedies for a specific audience, TFA shits all over the mainstream.
Tank is the reality seeping in.
Copy/pasting what could be seen on the news when talking about “a convoy being attacked by rebels”. What the audience expects to see when they hear that phrase. Like not camels for one…
It was very much out of place for the story though.
It’s a city with a HUGE spaceship just hovering above it.
I.e. Any convoy would be flying high above the surface. Flying is like walking to the folks running the “convoys”. After all – they are exporting the crystals off the planet. Plus you can’t really be ambushed in the air – unless the enemy has cloaking devices or you don’t have radar… and we know that no ship that small can have a cloaking device.
But that’s not what the crystals or the scene were there for… so it’s a minor gripe.
Now… the bit I’d like to know is – was Jyn’s “burka look” with only her eyes showing from out of the entirely black uniform and the big Asian guy calling her “sister” a conscious “rebels are like Al-Qaeda” thing or was that just reality seeping in again?
I mean… Disney WAS aware that the pilot was one of the guys in Road to Guantanamo before they put him in a scene where they he is a victim of misunderstanding which results in him being hauled around with a bag on his head and tortured for information?
Or that he was one of the inept terrorists in Four Lions (who all die) before they’ve exploded him in this movie (where everyone dies)?
This movie WAS an attempt to extend the hand of friendship to Al-Qaeda, right?
We like Star Wars… You like Star Wars… It seems it’s been that way forever…
That’s what all this was about, right? Peace in the Middle East?
My introduction to RLM was the plinket prequel breakdown. Mike’s breakdown in that series was great, and again, the foundation of the spirit of this site (in my opinion).
And he pours on the hatred in that series.
Or more recently, the review of “Shut In” or whatever the latest Naomi Watts project was called, he said it was a con, and was angry.
Watching The Force Awakens I had a similar response. In tone it was EXACTLY like the dumbass Star Wars prequels. I was baffled by the love it was getting from people whose opinions I respected.
I totally get that it can be maddening.
That’s absurd. Just compare it to Hitler and get it over with.
Yeah, got any more ad-hominems? All I do is critizise a movie, all you do is calling me names and question my motivation. You’re really quite the constructive filmcritic.
I’m starting to think Mike will never find a Star Wars film that has the appropriate gravitas of Empire Strikes Back, so he’ll just stick to the ANH mold constantly and won’t even bother.
But you have to accept that you’re in the minority. The reviews were good, the general fan reaction was good, the box office was strong.
So what makes more sense, that everybody else is in a collective delusion, or that there’s something idiosyncratic about you that makes you feel that way?
I was bored by this.
They wasted an opportunity to make a decent heist movie with this one. There will be another with bothans in coming years, believe me. I hope they’ll hire Andy Serkis for mo-cap and make a good caper movie.
I was bored by Rogue™® One™®.
They wasted an opportunity to make a decent heist movie with this one. There will be another with bothans in coming years, believe me. I hope they’ll hire Andy Serkis for mo-cap and make a good caper movie. I hope…
No, I’ll stick to my original point. It’s weird thing to get angry about.
I’m often of the minority opinion. It doesn’t make me wrong.
The “majority” lost their shit over the SW prequels. From the trailers they looked so awful I never bothered to see them. Does that make me an eccentric or idiosyncratic?
“delusion” has nothing to do with it. Opinions of film are by definition subjective.
Anyway, I still hold to the fact that it can be maddening to watch a sucky film while all around are cheering. And again, I think that feeling is in large part what RLM documents.
You’ve been living in a cave if you didn’t know this was about getting the death star plans.
Yeah, I saw that too. It suddenly looked like Hurt Locker.
I though that was in bad taste, not to mention hacky. It reminded me of the smash cut to Vietnam in The Jar.
Not all beards are neckbeards.
No they didn’t The prequils got panned.
And simply disagreeing with the majority doesn’t make you smarter than them. I’ve heard a million 20 year old hipsters try to tell me that The Godfather is overrated, or that Hamlet is a dramatic failure.
Contrarianism is not insight, it is by definition, thoughtless.
I’m sitting here watching this at We Energies, outside of Milwaukee. Yes, they really do wear dumb helmets.
It’s been a Star Wars fanboy tradition since The Phantom Menace to proclaim that the latest movie is the best ever, while trashing the one that came before it. Glad to see things won’t changed with the spinoff movies.
I can’t wait until Episode 8 comes out so I can see how you guys that are defending Rogue One really feel about it. The first 2/3 of the movie is stupid, poorly paced, and borderline boring and indefensible. You guys do know that once you’ve purchased the blu-ray, you’ll be skipping right to Scarif and won’t be watching any other part of the movie.
One clue that it wasn’t intended for small children or general audiences was that it wasn’t rated “G” for general audiences. It was rated PG-13. People who take small children to PG-13 movies shouldn’t expect freaking Finding Dory.
Where did I say I was smarter?
Since I am currently freezing my blood, bone marrow and one kidney for Rich Evans’ use once his body begins to disintegrate (in about two years), I will need you to justify “unfair” and “biased”. That is not to say you are wrong, mind you, but I want evidence you are right!
(Your prize will be two ounces of grade “A” bone marrow).
i disagree with you guys. I am slightly older – i saw the original as a kid in the cinema. I thoroughly enjoyed this one. TFA – i have watched it twice now – that is as far as I can go. Keep reviewing though 🙂
Yes, just like any film set in the sixties has to have cameos from JFK and show Apollo 11 and have Martin Luther King poke his face into the frame and say “I HAVE A DREAM!”.
Doing this shit makes your universe feel small and unimaginative. Nobody had to set the film then. There are WW2 films that don’t include D-Day, or any soldiers fighting at all. Hell, this film could have been Star Wars Casablanca. But no, it had to be the same shit.
Why did there have to be a space battle?
Why did it have to take place ten minutes before A New Hope?
Why did there have to be a CGI Tarkin?
You are trapped by the anchor point of what the film is, not what it could have been. Adjust your perspective.
Wow… do you want the Ocean’s Eleven sound track playing in the background too?
Cassian should have killed Galen. That could have driven some interesting character drama, at the very least.
Read the fucking word, then type it out. I believe you can do it!
You appear to be an idiot. Please never share an opinion ever again, particularly if it is going to include the word “epic”.
Ray is the only likable new character and it does not make up for a total clone of a new hope. People think this was boring? TFA was boring as fuck. I had already seen it.
No, they mercilessly ripped Prometheus apart on every aspect except the visual aesthetic and building of tension.
Look, it’s not a perfect movie. I don’t say that. But it doesn’t deserve the pounding it got from Team Evans. I think they sat in the cinema, listening to fans whooping and clapping, and got progressively more morose; it acted like a focaliser for the parts of the movie that didn’t work for them. It amplified their discontent.
They’re right that the characters are thin, though I liked Krennic and the simple dramatic irony inherent in the conclusion of his story, and it does take a while for plot elements to cohere, which in part can be explained by rewrites and maybe a little conceptual fogginess. But generally it’s because the movie didn’t take the simple cookie cutter route of having Mon Mothma walk into a room and say, “okay, we’ve had this intelligence report – I need 5 volunteers.” That would be ROTJ. Instead we get a grand tour of the Empire in its pomp and see the division and mistrust in the rebellion. That to me is far more interesting. That’s a story that’s keeen to explore the War in Star Wars, not just crank out another family friendly adventure with a wide eyed proxy for the kids. If that’s a problem, as RLM are saying, it’s a misfire. Personally, I think Lucasfilm made the right call. If the characters had been better written, and Edwards had imbued them with more life, maybe encouraging the actors to be a little more vivid and quirky in their characterisations – even humourous, then I think you’d have a great film. As it stands, pretty good.
I don’t know… That’s a bit of a Return of the Jedi grade for me.
This lacked that… consistency of the story and the myth.
Though… someone sure as fuck did their job writing that script.
Donnie Yen’s Chirrut is VERY MUCH what Campbell described as someone “seated in a shrine being a little dragon mouth saying “Buddha, Buddha, Buddha,” then expecting to get somewhere.”
I.e. Not an actual Force adept but someone trying to reach the Force through devotion… through meditation on the Force, becoming closer to the Force.
He may as well have been chanting “Form is emptiness, emptiness is form.”
Which is the understanding of the Star Wars universe completely lacking from anything past the original trilogy – and it’s the main thing in that universe. Its theory of everything.
The Force… whose energy surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we… and all that jazz.
If you are interested in seeing this movie, I strongly suggest you don’t watch this video first. In addition to an unfair review, they spoil the shit out of it.
Yeah, throughout these movies we’re told how evil the Empire is. This is the first one that showed it. R1 took its time to get rolling, but it did build momentum. And it did pay-off at the end.
Jay- “Make new things please!” Even though you loved the New Hope clone shit they gave us last year.
But RotJ had the Ewoks. I’m not down with the Ewoks.
There’s a reason the 4th one is called A New Hope. The Empire has destroyed people’s lives and is oppressive. Sorry if the people weren’t happy go lucky. ESB was also tonally depressing and shared the sentiment of this movie where the Empire is just so powerful. Kurtz left after that because Lucas wanted to add Ewoks and make it more fun, but they were originally going to go in a darker direction as well.
You can’t talk about the tone of Star Wars like there’s a definitive tone, because there isn’t. You had ANH and ESB that set a tone, RotJ went against it, then the Prequels went really against it.
I remember when this comment section had real nerds in it…
Your last line is perfect.
It also was the best depiction of Darth Vader bad assery to date.
it’s not a movie or franchise I care enough about to care whether it’s spoiled
also, don’t tell me what to do
never speak to me or my son again
RLM: Do something new.
Rogue One: Here’s a blind Asian character who was part of an order that helped the Jedi, despite them being wiped out he still believes in the Force and uses this belief to guide him in battle, and because he has so much faith in the Force it does not darken his mood like anyone else.
RLM: Eh he’s just there to appeal to the Chinese market, he’s forgettable.
Have to disagree with this one guys. This is the tone I thought the prequels should have had. To me this film has some of the best action in all the Star Wars films. Not sure what Jay has against the space battle??. I thought ROGUE ONE had just the right amount of fan service AND new characters. I do wish we had a bit more time to develop the characters further, especially Mads Mikkelson and Felicity Jones.
Lately I’m really disagreeing with RLM’s take on the direction of star wars. I LOVED Rogue One and I thought the fan service in this film was well crafted. could the dialog be better? yes, could the CG characters be better? yes. But for a story that takes place just days or even hours before episode IV begins, I think it would have been wrong to not include the characters that were included. I would have loved 5-10 more minutes at home to see some relationship between father and daughter. Pandering to the azn market doesnt matter to me when the characters makes sense and are fun. and for RLM to base their entire business model on paying fan service and calling back to every other RLM video, I’m starting frown when I hear that shit constantly.
Word. But according to these pretentious dbags you must be a 35-38 year old with a beard to enjoy that part.
No, I’m being an asshole. The difference is the level of sincerity.
Enjoyed Rogue One a HELL of a lot more than TFA. Yes there were too many references, but at least the scenes weren’t complete rehashes of the originals.
Also don’t agree with Jays opinion about Rey, she was annoying and rather unlikeable and was pushing the “independent woman” bit too much for something as simple as Star Wars.
In short, I’d watch Rogue One again… but I’d never watch the pure panderfest that was TFA again.
That’s why Star Wars fell apart after he left. Kurtz and Lucas where like Yin and Yang, balancing each other out. Kurtz was dark and dreary, Lucas the popcorn fun for all adventure.
Stop trying to make his spelling the escapegoat.
So RLM, I know you guys probably mostly ignore the comment section, as you should, but “Still gonna ain’t” needs to become a t-shirt.
Excellent comment, very insightful.
What I heard was that it was old unused footage from ’77 for Gold Leader.
I wouldn’t call myself the typical raving fanboy, I hate TFA, strongly dislike prequels and I’ve seen the original trilogy too much to still care about them, but Darth Vader was on point in this movie.
I would even argue the final scene with him is a nice symbolic summary of the greater picture, if you imagine Vader as the empire, and the guys dying to try and get the plans into the ship as the rebels struggling and barely succeeding with a lot of lives lost.
I any case I thought it was well done for a something that could be considered pure fan service.
But it does line up well with a new hope as it shows how relentless Darth Vader’s pursuit was.
I didn’t like this “choke” one liner though.
I see you’ve never read a book.
And I say this as someone who anticipated liking him most.
It’s also telling that people keep referring to him as ‘Blind Asian Character’ instead of by his name, even you. Ugh.
I am only 11 minutes in and it is really obvious that they are playing the cynical contrarian role, or what amounts to trolling in 2016. They are reaching so far over the top for things to criticize and some of their comments have gone full retard.
Jay says, “To make a stars wars movie you have to recycle the same shit, and if you do something new then it isn’t star wars.” That is a long way of saying don’t make more star wars movies.
Rich say,”Star Wars is just X-wings, TIE fighters, and light sabers.” No star wars fan thinks that. ESB is typically regarded as the best film and it was frugal in those areas.
Then all three of them talk about how great the Marvel movies are and how TFA did things better. As I already mentioned this is just in the first 11 minutes. This isn’t even a review. It is just a shameless attempt at clicks. It’s cool if you don’t like Rogue One but this so called review is a joke. Of course Rogue One isn’t as boring and weird as Neon Demon and it’s not as cringy as the one where a guy plays with a corpse (that is supposed to be a feel good movie btw) but Rogue One is still a good film.
And Finn was memorable right?
Or maybe Rogue One was a pandering, boring, and ‘EDGY’ mess, and people are too blinded by their perceived ‘love’ for the franchise to care about actual storytelling and filmmaking.
Nolan’s batman movies were terrible, is everyone just being nice to Heath Ledger? Cause i don’t think he’d care much, even if he could.
Them shitting on this movie makes it even weirder. At least if they ripped TFA like should have, they would have been consistent and I would fully understand their point of view.
But complaining about a few cameos and calling it too much while praising TFA, which essentially copies entire scenes back to back from start to finish, just comes of as weird.
No. I didn’t like TFA (or Finn) either.
It’s fucking annoying idiots like you assume anyone who dislike Rogue One is automatically a fan of TFA.
I know what role you are playing. It is called Disney marketing/astroturfing with an account created today. Anyone can right click that account and see account creation. That is a Federal offense btw and a $16,000 dollar fine. Lot’s of day 1 Disqus accounts in this thread. Disney is almost as big a scumbag company as Sony though with online marketing. It is expected. Guess another site I will have to report Disney for trying to harass/manipulate to the FTC. Not surprised to see who upvoted you either.
Idk, I think a blind monk who believes so firmly in the force he walks into blaster fire believing the force will protect him yet doesn’t himself have force powers is intriguing and memorable
So, you’re into role playing then huh, kinky. What do you dress up as.
The FTC fine WB just got for the same thing with Shadows of Mordor? Disney is not too big to get fined.
Em, just to clarify, you are talking about the original trilogy when you say “Yeah, throughout these movies we’re told how evil the Empire is. This is the first one (Rogue One) that showed it.”?
If so, I would like to explain to you just how wrong you are.
Dammit disney where is my paycheck.
I’m sure he’s going to listen to you.
What’s intriguing and memorable is the concept of his character, not who he is. Chirrut lacked a real personality and was practically a mish-mash of tropes pasted together to fool audiences into thinking he was interesting. The entire (new) cast of Rogue One was similarly ‘developed’ except Cassian was the worst of the bunch, he was just…such a blank slate.
Rey was a fucking bitch, I have no idea why anyone found her “charismatic”.
“DONT HOLD MY HAAAAAND!!!!!!!!” “WHEEEEEHHHHH”
“Charismatic” Rey: “STOP HOLDING MY HAAAAAAND!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!”
…you sounds like you have misogyny issues 😉 If you don’t, try dialing it back a notch, k?
Dead on Rich! Tarkin, SO FUCKING DISTRACTING!
the marvel movies aren’t good though.
this actually really freaks me out because the gap between the marvel movies and actual good movies is so wide, yet people can’t see it, does that mean that when most people, even critics, see a good movie like 90% of it is wasted?
or is there something wrong with me whereby robert downey jnr and chris evans are so so charming that they can make a movie good and i just don’t have properly functioning charm receptors?
Fanboy gotta be fanboys.
Aside from being a Rebel spy who will do ‘anything’ to defeat the Empire even if that means murdering other Republic agents, betraying friends, and assassinating people. Who later realizes what he could be doing is wrong and that the enemy isn’t really as black and white as it would seem as he realizes a couple of his targets are not bad people by proxy of Jyn and starts to develop a conscience. Then at the end when presented with an opportunity, redeems himself by going on a suicide mission to save the Republic and ultimately saves Jyn’s life….. yea… blank slate indeed…. :shakes head:
Yes, all shit you projected onto his character. He barely felt any remorse or dilemma from his actions. I guess you’re right maybe I was hasty to call him boring, and should probably label him as unsympathetic instead. -_- …Also, he doesn’t save Jyn’s life at all since she, you know, dies five minutes later. It was all moot.
Ewoks Shmiwoks. They are of no importance. Like the rest of the… mechanical things.
Ewoks, Ents, Elves… who gives a fuck what label is attached to surprise allies they find in the forest.
None of it matters to the grand scheme of things.
The story is one of the Force. Light vs. Dark. Good vs. Evil.
Luke being tested and rejecting the temptation – thus proving that he is the Messiah.
Strike him down and he shall only become more powerful.
Everything else is just the set dressing.
Starships and Death Stars and moons and planets… all of it is just crude matter.
Not what the existence in that universe is about.
It wasn’t a great line. But I can deal with it. Everything else he did was great.
Did you want him to fall to his knees and scream into the air, “WHAT HAVE I DONE?!!!”
Hey, they didn’t know it was all hopeless at that point. It’s only moot if you only look at the end rather than the path that led there
Guess what, the world isn’t all sunshine and unicorn farts
Why would I care if Disney gets fined? I already got paid.
You should reconsider your new favorite hero:
> Did you want him to fall to his knees and scream into the air, “WHAT HAVE I DONE?!!!”
Pfft. No. But we barely got anything from him…unless the script required him.
> Hey, they didn’t know it was all hopeless at that point. It’s only moot if you only look at the end rather than the path that led there
You recently wrote that they went on a suicide mission yet you also say they didn’t know it was all hopeless. Can’t have it both ways.
Yes I can, if at the time they began the mission they
thought it was a suicide mission, but then the Republic fleet came in and gave a hope of success. Your 1 dimensional thinking is making my head hurt
Not every movie is for everyone. I have watched almost every episode of Half in the Bag and this was by far the most head scratching. There is more praise for Marvel movies than in any of their reviews of those Marvel movies. They always seemed kinda meh on the Marvel movies.
Well I thought it was the best Star Wars but I don’t really like Star Wars. I thought the protagonist girl was better than the last one. I was hoping that the Princess puts the disk in her computer in the end and its just a bunch of alien porn, but no.
This is why I pretty much stopped watching them. Ever since their TFA video (I refuse to call it a review) they’ve stopped actually reviewing things and seem more like contrarian trolls. It seemed like they were making fun of Star Wars fans. They’re more like hipsters than nerds now.
I knew it was only a matter of time before people started meme-ing that pic.
Chirrut was a pious idealist and willing to get into fights to help decent people. Of all the main characters, I think Jyn was the only one who could truly be called a blank slate.
Love of the franchise has nothing to do with it. I pretty much only like the 1977 film, I like Rogue One more than RotJ.
What I find odd is that, as I stated earlier, their criticisms of Rogue One seem far more applicable to The Force Awakens. I mean, Mike was *raving* about how awesome Force Awakens is. He looked like he was going to pull Jay and Rich’s heads off because they didn’t share his enthusiasm.
I think they just decided to hate the franchise.
I also would like a paycheck from Disney for enjoying Rogue One.
Oh man, I cannot wait to come back to this a year from now when Star Wars Episode .00.3.5 comes on my TV.. I’m just so tired. Fuck you, disney.
i upvoted it. get the tin foil hats!!!
I bought a Jawa and landspeeder toys as a child. I regret this now. The landspeeder did go kaplow though. ..
If you use “Jyn Erso” as an argument starter, prepare for ridicule.
one more comment. i don’t live in the US. 5% of the worlds population does. Let’s say 2/3 of that population are white. Why the constant harping on about the Chinese audience with Chinese characters. The guy was a cool dude. I liked it. Stop being sooooo American with your carping!
Because in Hollywood box office terms, a movie will literally lose or make money based on its Chinese turnout. Movies are sold to a giant Chinese audience now.
“Edgy”? How do you get quotation-mark edgy?
As a non-fan of Star Wars, let me tell you, it is OK to like Rogue One even if RLM didn’t like it. Also, it is OK to not like TFA even when RLM gave it a positive review. Different opinions are a thing that happen.
I understand that. I live in Asia. To me,i t makes the film more believable and engaging if they have characters from China or outside the US. . I feel like this wasn’t a review – it was a total discussion on bitching.
Question – does anybody watch this film and remember the name of the protagonist? Because I watched Star Wars in the theater almost 40 years ago, and when characters were introduced you could remember their names and what they were about. SW Rogue 1 and SW TFA, I can’t really tell you the name of anybody, other than there was a “kilo and renn”, but I don’t know which was the black dude and which was the skinny white girl.
The “characters” in these SW films just suck. There is nothing to them. It’s like ramen without the packet of flavoring.
But, what people want to know is, should they see this movie.
“Rogue One is still a good film”
Taste may be subjective, but no, R1 isn’t a good film.
You can’t tell a good story without characters, and the main characters are in no way memorable nor do we care about them.
If you’re a fan of the original trilogy, then I definitely recommend it. Speaking of seeing things, can I see your instagram? You look fucking hot from your avatar.
“Jyn Erso is also dead behind the eyes but her entire arc had to be compressed into one movie”
It might shock you to learn that for decades and decades of filmmaking, characters (more than one/film) had to be developed and their entire story arc told inside a 90 minute movie.
Go watch To Have and Have Not – the characters are well introduced and you understand them within the first 10 minutes of the film – because they were well written characters with good actors portraying them. We didn’t need flashbacks or anything, just actors who knew how to ****ing act and writers who could ****ing write. It’s shocking that Disney can’t figure out basic stuff like that.
It’s got enough good s’plosions to go see, and it’s a fun film to complain about JMO
Oh bullshit. If you’re a fan of the last reboot, you’ll be a fan of this exact same reboot. End of story. Don’t involve those of us who liked the first three movies.
I wouldn’t recommended it. If you’re looking for a good, funny comedy, if you’re looking for a worthy follow up, if you liked the first one, I wouldn’t recommended it.
If you’re looking to see a movie that is just like morbidly curious, in how off-putting and wrong it is
No one wants go watch a movie out of the morbid curiosity of how they can watch the audience in the theater with them be disappointed. People want to go see a movie to be entertained by it, whether it’s an action movie, a drama, or comedy
Die in a fire.
What am I learning from the reaction to this slightly critical review, or even the fact that Rouge One took $155 million this weekend?
Most Star Wars fans are stupid. Just like most of any group are stupid.
I enjoyed it. Don’t care if you did or not. This review is just plain terrible. There was an episode not long ago where they knocked super hero movies for all having the same formula. Backstory for main character and then fight a villain. Now they criticize Rogue One for not having a long back story. If Jyn Erso had a 45 minute backstory it would literally be the formula they earlier criticized.
I think it’s stupid. Nobody cares if you do or not either. You’ve already forgotten it, and you’ll watch the next one next year, say it’s brilliant, and immediately forget it too. You’re a chump.
Opinions are subjective. I don’t agree with them on lots of things, I still find their perspective interesting to listen to.
I agree with them on Rogue One and Force Awakens.
I’m not normally so in agreement with RLM.
I am much harsher with my opinion. I hated this movie as much as they hated “Man of Steel”.
Finn is my favorite character in Star Wars.
I am not joking. He is my favorite.
Here is the thing. I don’t remember his backstory being in the movie. I don’t even recall his name.
But.. It’s true. They were put in the movie to sell to a Chinese audience.. They were pointing out how obvious it was..
Amen, brother! I saw R1 and loved it! Not only leaving and believing it was the best movie this year, but the best Star Wars movie ever!!! I just don’t get (or agree) with RLM, sometimes. I hated Doctor Strange…they loved Doctor Strange. I thought TFA was mostly that artificial Abrams/Disney crap…they thought of it as formulaically brilliant success. The same with Guardians of the Galaxy…the list goes of films they love or hate, and I’m on the opposite side of the spectrum. I kinda wish they would bring a guest who has a different perspective, so people, who might otherwise enjoy a brilliant like R1, wouldn’t be turned off and spoiled by RLM’s review. But anyhoo, liked reading your comment…dead on!
So, all Chinese movies will now have a few positive American characters, right? I mean, it’s only fair.
No it’s not that. It’s that with Marvel movies you have to compare it to the big franchises like Harry Potter, Fast & The Furious, Transformers, Ninja Turtles, etc. And in comparison to those big movie franchises, the Marvel movies have been really good for really long.
Characters don’t exist anymore, merely superficially different audience surrogates. This started with Twilight and has since been adopted by all major blockbusters movies.
It’s not okay to like the prequels though. That’s just wrong.
This is the moment when RLM becomes truly cynical. You can’t even see the beauty in the photography and art and extended universe tone here? Yes, there are x-wings and walkers and all those things, because those things are what the Star Wars universe are made of. when you see a Star Trek film, you don’t expect a new universe each time. You expect a riff on the Star Trek universe. I’m disappointed to see that real Star Wars fans don’t even know triumph when they see it.
It took me a second to remember that Mads Mikkelsen’s character has a name.
It probably went to too many locations as well. It should have been a little smaller in scale. At the least Scariff should have been a location I recognized before the final battle happens there.
I recognize Rich Evans from when he was Supervisor at Tromaville Nuclear Utility. He didn’t give a wet fart about Rogue One.
I actually only think around half of the marvel movies are good, those Iron Man sequels for example are incoherent failures cobbled together from dozens of drafts with only a few entertaining moments. The formula pays off for them about half the time. All of the crossover movies other than the first Avengers movie has struggled to balance the number of characters, so that’s two different traps they tend to fall into, too many cooks and too many characters.
Doctor Strange was good, Deadpool was good (yes I know it wasn’t a marvel studios film) and The Winter Soldier was good. GOTG was good and Avengers was good. All of those movies were tightly focused. The creation of the Marvel Cinematic universe will ultimately lead to the downfall of Marvel films as characters become thinner and thinner and have increasingly less reason to be involved in the plot. I think that the Infinity War films will be an unmitigated disaster for this reason, even if they still manage to make a lot of money.
They reviewed TFA immediately after seeing it and so were still in the afterglow when they expressed their opinions. I think they waited longer and were more negative towards this movie in response to how much they over-praised TFA.
RLM is kinda losing their edge in analyzing what makes a SW movie a good SW movie. Or in my opinion, R1 is not only a great scifi action film, but “the best” SW movie ever! Forget all the blah blah blah rhetoric from these debbie downers. Don’t get me wrong, I do still like them. But, they are completely off point in this HITB review.
And, so let me get this straight…that forgettable nonsense piece of overrated crap “Doctor Strange” you guys liked, but R1 is the one you attack? I swear, sometimes I feel like I will wake up one day, and RLM will explain why The Phantom Menace was a masterpiece! 😛
Do You Want Lunch!
hey guys i understand that what you are both saying – to frank,,,i could name one recent asian film that is trying to break out of the Chinese market (a certain Bourne charater 🙂 , one asian character (who i think is quite cool )is not worth bitching about – he didn’t even have a chinese accent (did he? racking my brain) – whereas…..transformers, the recent bond film…. am sure there are quite a few…… anyway – i have been following these guys for years. Their words hit harder than other reviewers because we all care about what they say. Having to disagree with them cos I think they talk bullshit is just a little harder.
wot a happy person you are
But I recognized *while viewing* that The Force Awakens was a POS.
I think Mike’s embarrassed by his enthusiasm now, and over-compensating. Jay never liked the franchise and Rich is an idiot that is there for, what?
No one is stopping you.
Totally agree. I live in Oakland CA. The crew of Rogue One looks like a cross section of the peeps I see every day.
People on this thread are uptight about asian cast members, or argue it’s “just to appeal to the overseas market.” Get a fucking clue, or at least, get out of the suburbs one time in your life, visit a real city for a broader perspective.
Because I’m hopelessly pedantic, I wanna point out that your suggestion isn’t gonna work since outside of a few isolated locations, the only state with a large number of Asians is California. They’re not going to see many unless they stumble into a group of tourists.
Very well. I withdraw my suggestion.
I think you guys are spot-on for this review (CGI Tarkin = ughhh). Big Star Wars fan here and this was the first movie where I could honestly say I was bored during the entire first half. There just wasn’t enough character development to get me emotionally involved. I think another problem (that I don’t think you mentioned) was the music in this film. The scores in past films flow beautifully with the tone of what is onscreen – it’s like they’re their own character in the film. To me, this soundtrack seemed jarring – it would build up to what you think would be a familiar theme, and then retreat just as quickly into some forgettable background noise.
I didn’t understand Rogue One. Please tell me there will be a prequel explaining all of it.
“Emperor Palpatine Assisted Living Castle for Lava Burn Victims and Hospice.”
Nah, it’s shit. Yearly shit and your fandom excuses it.
Tell you what: I might get the DVD… yes I still buy those. -.- But only if it is cheap enough. I… well… I just don’t give enough fucks anymore about Star Wars. :/ As well as Marvel, btw. Which is why I never even thought about watching “Doctor Strange”. The last movie I saw in theatres was “Kubo and the Two Strings”… which I liked.
*sigh* I’m just done with this Disney-crap. 🙁 Can’t enjoy it anymore.
Here’s the problem with Star Wars: it’s dead. Disney purchased a corpse, and now they are doing their best to animate it like a marionette. RLM is cynical because they have realized this. Sure, they liked TFA, but that’s just because it was “new Star Wars” and it gave them hope that what followed was going to be better. It “awakened” that feeling of nostalgia, if only temporarily. Now they see the truth, the truth which their hopeful enthusiasm had once hidden from them.
The original trilogy is timeless. It stands on its own as all the Star Wars this world ever needed. The magic that the original trilogy brought to the screen can never be recaptured. It’s over. Star Wars was the product of a maverick filmmaker; a dreamer who realized his dream. His struggles, his triumphs: all are mirrored in the films. Now, there are no “struggles.” Star Wars has become a corporate affair, all elements of chance removed. The maverick is no more. Star Wars is no more.
We were going to build his palace on Courscant, but due to budgetary cuts at the Emperor Palpatine Construction Company and high property taxes on Coruscant, it had to be built on the lava planet from Revenge of the Sith because the property tax there is incredibly low.
another response. I wonder your age. i saw the original in the cinema – had the comics. Return of the Jedi wasn’t the most amazing film. ‘Star wars is no more’ – such grand words. I totally loved the film. They killed all the characters in Rogue 1 – how often do you see this? Please stop being so melodramatic.
All this dumb fan service and they missed a golden opportunity to finally include the Emperor Palpatine Surgical Reconstruction Center. I really want to see that statue of monster face with 2 adoring children looking up at it.
This movie has a 65 aggregate score on metacritic from film critics who are not just blogger fanboys or advertising arms of Disney/Star Wars/Marvel Corp (a site like IGN).
65/100 is not a good score. The entire world of critics dit not go crazy. Fanboys simply are crazy.
Kind of odd that they had this opportunity to inject new characters and lore into the Star Wars universe and they just killed everyone off in the end.
I mean, sure they got 20 more movies and a half dozen animated kids shows coming out in the near future where they can do that, but this is the first time they could really get their dick wet without having the original trilogy hanging over them to muck it up. In the Force Awakens they were kinda stuck doing what they did, but here they can do almost anything they want and they elected to do fan service.
Gotta sell AT-ATs I guess.
This movie was fucking bad ass…..
you are trek guys
fuck you guys
still love you guys tho
I think I have five thoughts.
It needed less characters so more of the movie could have given backstory and motivation for the focus characters. Jyn, Cassian Andor, K-2SO and Chirrut Îmwe (Donnie Yen) who woudl play that character who WAS a Rebel General. The stoiry did need to be better, but even that stoiry coudl have worked if it was more focued and made use CARE about the stars.
It didn’t need zero fans service, it just needed to be more subtle. I need a glips of Tarkin, a few glimpses of Vader, and just a swirl of a white dress and a few words from the Princess no those long lingering shoits that MAKE then look fake. I heard from months this woudl not be about the Force but they said “The Force” 1000x more in this movie than it was veer said in Ep. 4-6 combined!
Like it or not Star Wars has to be uplifting,even as PG-13 film not everyone can die. Have stakes, have loss, but don’t murder the whole cast. What is worse is they all die and we don’t really care because we have no reason to care about people who don’t know.
Less stupid choices – The family had a plan why did mommy go back and wave a pistol at the bad guys…that’s an even worse plan than they had? Why is mommy stupid? Why is half the movie “Well we will fly there and make a plan as we go?” Military operation have plans at least at the start…but they never have a plan, they never seem to have the intellegnce they need to get anywhere or do anything like a military team would NEED, not just want, but NEED.
More Brits! Star Wars a New Hope has humor but a lot of it was dry. “Aren’t you a little short for a Storm Trooper?”, “You have your moments. Not many of them, but you do have them.” When people say, it needs to be funnier.,,, they don’t mean gags, slap stick or laugh-out-loud. The movies needed some more levity and some dry humor lines that aren’t just for K-2SO.
I like the idea of a character who comes from the background of being forced to be a bad guy choosing to be a good guy.
I also like his arc in the story, you can see him grow thru the story. He starts out as a nameless and faceless cog in the war machine. He then gets a name, new clothes, friends, a new cause, and when presented with the opportunity to run off he chooses to go back and help his friends when things get bad. Overcoming one’s fear to do right by those who helped and trusted you.
There is a simple part between Rey and Finn in the Starkiller, when he says something like, “I came back for you.” And her whole back story is waiting for the family that never came back for her.
Beyond that, I like the actor, he is fun and charismatic. They give him a lot of good lines. He is a funny character with a good backstory and clear growth.
Looks like they’re annoyed at some SW fanboys in their local theatre and they’re annoyed with themselves for liking TFA, which somewhere deep down, they most know is a piece of shit. Just re-watch TFA and R1 in a quiet room again and tell me TFA isn’t a complete abomination while R1 is like a B minus, you deluded hack-fraud hipster contrarian neckbeard fanboys.
I really wish someone would acknowledge that Kyle Katarn and Jan Ors stole the Death Stars and this movie could’ve been a perfect introduction for them.
I would have more sympathy with their point of view if they had applied the same level of cynicism to TFA, instead they praised that boardroom directed pander fest into the sky while shitting on a movie that is at least an original story, but with few too many 5 second cameos.
I have to agree with the music, the transition into the classic tunes was rather jarring and unnecessary. Like hearing a subpar cover of a good classic song.
Well I’ve only ever seen 8 movies, and the others were all part of trilogies, so thanks for that insight.
The point was to highlight this bogus comparison with Rey, who had the luxury of having an entire movie as an intoduction alone. Jyn’s underwritten and underperformed but she’s also crowded out by other characters and plot in a single movie, which means that realistically the film had an act to get her down, and it didn’t. It defined her by her situation and daddy issues, without adding personality. All that criticism is valid. But let’s not forget that Luke was a one dimensional hero in ANH – he only got shading later, so the series has form. But Rey for me is a Luke – pretty bland. So I can’t really buy into this RLM argument that she’s charismatic, so transcends the material, whereas Jyn Erso kills her movie. The difference for me is that the movie happening around Jyn is more interesting.
But yes, the next anthology film needs great characters (as well as a convincing Solo – I.e. a portrayal that’s less an impression, more the essence of the character. Less Ewan McGregor, more Chris Pine).
One could argue ESB and RotJ are unnecessary money grubbing.
Hell, I’m even glad the prequels exist because at-least we got some cool stuff from them like games, fan-edits and more palpy.
Nobody is stopping you from watching the OT only.
Hey. You can like ewoks and also like brutal realistic carnage too ya know.
The problem was that the audience at-least expected him to try. It just didn’t make sense for him to give up *now*, like, why now?
Wow, people with constructive input. This comment section is already much better than FB’s. Wish me luck for when I finally reach Youtube…
At-least someone was attached to the characters…
Than* is comparison
Then is time
Couldn’t* care less
PS. Enjoying shlock is different than liking a legitimately good movie, such as Prometheous.
A lot of that was just a joke man. It was the obnoxious and pointless fan-service (wasn’t actually that prolific, mostly tasteful imo) that pushed it over the line.
Liking TFA and hating on R1 because of familiar stuff and fan-service just doesn’t make much sense to me. R1 felt like a spin-off, but that’s ok, because it is a spin-off. TFA should have felt like a sequel , but it felt like a reeboot/remake. R1 had creative limitations; it was set in certain time, had to fit into an existing story, had to connect to E4, was about pre-established concepts (desperate rebels vs evil empire, threat of Death star etc.), So it had all the familiar stuff (x-wing, star destroyers, evil empire, darth vader), but that’s ok, cause the story is set at the time of those things so it makes sense that we see that stuff again. And I expected that stuff from this movie cause it’s just a spin-off. With TFA they had all the creative freedom : new beginning , new era, new story, new concepts, you can do new original planets and ships.. (and you know how that went)- we got same story, same concepts (desert planet, evil guy with black helmet, talented young force user, father-son reveal, evil empire, new death star, even the characters are mostly cloned, enhanced versions of original characters etc…)
My only complaint about R1 is the one about underwritten characters. And it’s a major complaint. But other than that I enjoyed the movie as much as TFA, if not more. R1 is a good spin-off, TFA is not a very good sequel, despite being a better movie all together.
Saw Gerrera: “We have lost all hope. We gave the last of it to the jedi who gambled it away in the casinos of Bespin.”
Jyn Erso: “There is a new hope. I saw it rising in my vision like the twin suns of Tatooine in the deflated golden droid buttocks of C3P0.”
A brief pause to allow the audience an opportunity to applaud the mention of C3P0.
Saw Gerrera: “Your father’s connection to the Death Star has earned you an unpaid internship on this strike team. What makes you think that you have what it takes to lead it, when there are others with far more impressive CVs?”
Jyn Erso: “This is a rebel alliance, isn’t it? I ally myself with others of a rebellious disposition and we engage, as a group, in violent direct action against establishment powers. That includes the patriarchal hierarchies present within the rebel alliance itself.”
Cassian Andor: “Saw, I have more reason than most to despise Lando Calrissian. When I refused to pay off my substantial gambling debts by working as a chauffeur during the cloud car drivers’ strike, Lando took several letters from my first name as payment. But if we can convince him to loan us some of this new hope, I believe we will be able to summon the conviction to steal the plans of this Death Star and rescue the monsters that live inside its garbage disposal system. And also blow it up.”
Saw Gerrera: “There are no plans for the Death Star. It is a work of improvisation, part sculpture/part performance art, funded by the Palpatine Art Collective. Now leave me here. I am done running. I will await the Imperial stormtroopers who will arrive on this planet within a week, if conditions in hyperspace are favourable. “
Jyn Erso: “But you’ll die… in seven days.”
Saw Gerrera: “Go! I will linger here among the vaguely familiar background characters from the first Star Wars film.”
Stirring orchestral music plays. In the seat behind you a bearded man explains to his friend that, to really understand the significance of this scene, you need to have read all of the restraining orders that were issued against you by the Star Wars Expanded Universe author, Timothy Zahn, after you broke into his house and read his secret diary.
I guess opinions can differ – to me it wasn’t even close, particularly between Rey and Jyn (I really hated Felicity Jones’s performance.) I just thought they were funnier and better developed, some of which was the writing and some the acting. But I’m not everyone…
OR AM I?
I know. It just… amused me.
Mostly agreed. I didn’t mind the fan service stuff much, (except Leia – GAAAAHHH!) but the characters just did nothing for me which is why I enjoyed TFA more as a movie.
One of the purposes of R1 was to save Darth Vader from laughable prequel hell – you know the scene I’m talking about. He’s a bada$$ once more.
The Lando/Han spinoff will delve into their shared backgrounds, as mentioned in that Bespin scene – you know the one I’m talking about……just like R1 was, as mentioned in the opening crawl of A New Hope. Thankfully their relationship was not damaged by the prequels
The Boba Fet spinoff will do damage control too. Boba Fet was nearly ruined by the prequels. Fan service complain all you want. But prequel damage control needs
to be done.
I didn’t even know who “Grand Moff Tarkin” was until they showed footage of him. Even then I don’t remember anything he did or said in the original movie. I thought they kept saying “Grandma Tarkin”
Having watched the review, I will disagree with one thing. I think it is possible to do something more with Star Wars than what they’ve done so far with The Force Awakens and Rogue One. The fundamental problem is that Disney is not willing to do anything different with the material. So you get a reheated version of A New Hope (which was fun enough) and a backstory movie set in a time that allows them to use all of the elements people liked about A New Hope and Empire. I’m sure Rogue One is fine, but there’s nothing interesting about it. They’ll go with safe bets, because as long as they include things that remind people of the originals without fucking up the story and characterization too badly, they’ll make money hand over fist.
It was ok. CGI Peter Cushing really bothered me. A living actor who even remotely looked like him with some makeup effects could have given him more life. If you remember from SW-IV he had a grace and elegance about him. CGI Cushing lacked any of that. He seemed so fake. His relatives should sue for sullying his image. And we did not need to see Leias face at all. R2, C3PO were Totally unnecessary. Other than that, I enjoyed the film.
His estate signed off on CGI Cushing
Ok I disagree on getting Star Wars “wrong” and comparing to Marvel. Marvel’s universe right now includes a talking raccoon and Jessica Jones getting raped. There’s room for all kind of tones and I think Rogue 1 works in the universe but with a whole different tone. Dislike the movie on those merits? Ok, I can respect that. But I don’t think this universe can’t have tonally different movies without being told they got it “wrong.”
Interesting view. I’m not opposed to any SW movie if they can keep this level of quality up. TFA & R1 are still great, despite flaws imo.
Nobody cares about EU. It was dropped.
Stop being so extreme and accept that rebooquels are not the worst sin ever committed.
The opposite of what you said is true.
Actually if you were to take that 65/100 convert to 6.5/10 which is “alright and a half” then round up to 7/10 you have the definitive score for “decent” or “good” movie.
I’ll have you know that I like my noodles uncooked and with no flavouring. Mmm dry wheat.
But hey at-least these characters are better than the prequels’.
TFA had new and likable, charismatic, or otherwise interesting characters.
Rogue One didn’t.
In a film franchise built on the strength of its characters, that’s pretty important.
Without good characters or anything new that was worthwhile, the movie is rendered to exist for the sole purpose of fan service. Yes, AT-AT’s and Darth Vader needed to be in the movie because it exists earlier in the timeline. But the movie only exists so that those things that are famous to us can be in a movie again. That’s why it’s fan service.
You can enjoy the prequels, but you must concede they are objectively bad.
What do you mean “regret”?! Sell those rarities for thousands!
If anyone defends the movie because “it re-establishes Darth Vader as a badass movie villain again,” that merely proves the purpose of this film’s existence; fan appeasement. Such praise has nothing to do with the quality of the story, or any interesting or likable new characters, or any worthwhile emotions the film drew out of you. It simply played on your attachment to something you already liked ahead of time.
The filmmakers took a character they knew is famous to you, and put that character in a scene they knew would make you happy. Fan perspective then trickles into the story being told, and it ceases being a story at all and becomes what it is; fan fiction.
The irony is that the scene cheapens and waters down the character we all like so much. It is the feeling one gets when they get sick from eating too much ice cream.
This may be a new concept for you but some people like to watch a half-decent formulaic popcorn film from time to time.
What’s everyone’s problem with this?
Yes, that particular criticism was truly bizarre. It’s something I’d expect from honest trailers, not Jay
The problem is they don’t give equal discussion time to what they liked or disliked. I actually think a review score would help with this show
The mild flaws of TFA are not catastrophic as you describe. RLM just have different priorities. They exagerate about R1 as you do now about TFA. In short; you hate yourself.
MY BONER DISAGREES
You put your schwartz away! This ain’t the Wide World of Sports!
YOU’LL HAVE TO PRY IT FROM MY COLD, DEAD HANDS.
I’m into that sort of thing.
It is also amazing how people hear and interpret things.
The review basically starts with Jay saying “I was bored because there are no characters.”
It is then bookended with “It all comes down to characters and story.”
But “fan service” is the only thing people seem to hear.
TFA had plenty of fan service, yes. But it put the necessary work in with characters. We see what Rey’s life is like before she is thrust into the larger story. We see Finn’s internal struggle as a soldier in a war he does not want to fight. We see Poe at the beginning, in the middle of the conflict. We see Kylo Ren’s plight to be a cool, badass sith and not a whiny brat.
Even if YOU personally didn’t like those characters, TFA at least put in the legwork of attempting to give them depth. Rogue One did not.
That’s the difference between the two films. That’s why TFA – though irritating at times – held my interest throughout, and why Rogue One made me wish I’d brought a pillow and blanket.
Hey. RotJ wasn’t THAT tonally out of place. And ANH definitely had an adventure serial feel that could be called cheerful.
But you main point I agree with. I have no issue with darker and I kinda wish more of the movìes embraced the dark side when appropriate. 😉
Repeating that will never make it true. It is a rebooquel yes, but it is not a remake or a clone, and how much of an issue that creates is up to each viewer and their sensibilities.
Kids are desentised and watching hardcore bdsm porn on their ipads these days anyway.
No, I’ll just watch one of the inevitable fanedits.
Ive been an RLM fan for years, but the smugness and condescension in part of RLM’s fanbase really irks me.
Pretentious dbags? We’re talking about RLM, they often speak in sarcasm, exaggeration or in jest.
I don’t agree with everything you said but your comment has considerable value. Much like RLM’s video.
Why does there need to be prequel damage control? Did you like Boba Fett and Darth Vader in the original trilogy? Those movies still exist. You’re pretending the prequel versions don’t exist whether there is a badass update or not. Personally, I’d rather they introduce new characters and stories in new environments than serve up a series of glorified expanded universe novels and big budgeted fan films.
You know that hack-fraud thing is a joke right?
Guys. Elements of TFA are divisive. To most people the flaws are minor. To some, they are unforgivable sins. It is merely a matter of interpretation.
It’s clear that R1 is doing the same for audiences.
Let me just remind you that it is possible to have a balanced opinion of a movie. Not everything has to be EXTREME HATE because Mary Sue or EXTREME ADORATION because Star Wars spirit.
Their criticisms of the characters were probably the strongest point they make in the review, and what I can agree with (I don’t think they’re as bad as RLM make out though, but still) . But they also complained extensively about other aspects of the film beyond that, many of which I don’t think hold up, and then managed to wrap that in half an hour of bitching about Star Wars fans.
TFA is a rebooquel, and is relatively inoffensive in that regard. Most people see the ties and don’t mind.
Also why did you need the despecialised specifically in order to “realise”?
Did you watch a cam copy? Because the action and effects alone were breathtaking. Hardly sci-fi original…
Would you have preferred the Odo makeup from Episode III?
And you’re free to disagree with them and like the characters more than they did. It doesn’t make them right, it doesn’t make you right, and it doesn’t make me right. You connected more with the film. That’s how you feel.
I can understand their frustration with Star Wars fan culture, however. The only time anyone in my theater reacted to anything happening was when they saw something they already knew ahead of time. It sours the broth quite a bit for me personally and only further emphasizes how derivative these new Star Wars films really are.
But then again, everything in Hollywood of 2016 is derivative; even the stuff I love, such as Mad Max: Fury Road.
I guess we can either lower our expectations to reasonable 2016 levels or Marty McFly ourselves to decades ago when some degree of originality was more prevalent.
But I’m rambling again. Bah Humbug.
I have a feeling that the standalone Leia movie will involve her learning from forest creatures how to be a princess.
I dunno, I think youse guys totally forgot what the opening crawl of “A New Hope” said:
It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.
During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire’s
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
It is a period of civil war.
Rebel spaceships, striking
from a hidden base, have won
their first victory against
the evil Galactic Empire.
During the battle, Rebel
spies managed to steal secret
plans to the Empire’s
ultimate weapon, the DEATH
This pretty much lays out exactly what the back story of the acquisition of the Death Stars plans was going to be; an epic space battle. The first half of the movie was a slow burn, smoldering at first with a few flickers of flame, and then instantly igniting into a conflagration of an intense inferno. If the movie had just been nothing but loud explosions, and fast paced action from the get go, by the time you got to the main set piece at the end you wouldn’t care anymore. In other words, it would have just been a “Transformers” movie. I’m not buying the criticism that “Rogue One” was just about the space battle because guess what, it was supposed to be all about the space battle that lead to the acquisition of the battle station plans. Reread the crawl to Episode IV again and tell me otherwise.
And I’m also not really buying into the, “It’s just fan service….”, criticism as well. We saw what we got when the original creator of Star Wars tried his hand at expanding the universe and what a hackneyed mess we ended up with. When even George can’t carry his own creation into something that makes anyone happy it’s no wonder he sold it to Disney. Disney has handed the reigns over to directors who first and foremost have professed, they are fans. So, I’m just not really all that shocked and surprised that we have ended up with well produced, fan fiction.
You don’t think the producers, and directors of the Marvel Cinematic Universe aren’t into the business of fan service? How many paint by numbers, lets show you the back story to how this person became a super hero, movies do we have to get to see otherwise? “Marvel’s Avengers” was nothing but fan service. It spent great portions of screen time on the types of things fans would argue about when they were kids, like whether Iron Man could beat Thor in a fight. All of these fantasy, sci-fi movies we’ve gotten as of late are fan service to some creation of the past.
Criticizing Star Wars for just recycling Darth Vader, and AT-AT’s is like criticizing the Hulk that he just needs to get over that whole anger issue thing. Or, deriding Green Arrow for not realizing there’s this new invention called, the gun. It’s like criticizing vanilla ice cream for just, well, tasting like plain old vanilla; jeez, BORING! I’m sorry but I love ice cream, and when I wanna sit down with a big ole’ bowl of vanilla ice cream, it better damn well taste like vanilla!
It’s Disney; that’s never happening.
Dampen your expectations and move on.
I don’t mind that I disagreed with them on the quality of the movie. They could have panned it as much as Jack and Jill for all I care. I’ve disagreed with them pretty strongly before in other reviews but can still respect their points and agree to disagree.
What did legitimately annoy me, and I think others about the review, was the insinuation that anybody who loves RO is an elitist neckbeard jerking it to OT references. Yes, there are annoying Star Wars fanboys (like any other fandom, including RLM’s), but that doesn’t justify such an insultingly condescending and dismissive sttitude. It kinda reminds me of something Rich said back in the Ghostbusters review. He was asking why that film seemed to hate on its fans so much, the people that normally consume their product. That’s the vibe I got from this episode.
That’s fair, it was a generalization on their part. But I also have to admit there’s a few degrees of truth to their generalization.
I have yet to hear someone – other than you – say they liked the movie because the new characters were good, or the story was engaging. It tells me a lot, personally.
I actually agree with them that the characters were a little underwriten and the film could have done with 15-20 more minutes of character scenes. But I liked the characters enough for the purposes of the movie (the stuff with Jyn Erso and her father worked well enough for me). And the movie was more story-driven than character-driven, so it was less important to me than in TFA.
All this talk of ice cream requires me to first and foremost confess that I am vegan. Because as all carnists know it is all about acting superior and egotistical, not at all about spreading information or a movement of positive change.
But yeah, dairy is bad for your health and the industry causes immense suffering and death for animals. Please consider going vegan.
I’ve yet to try vegan ice cream personally, so I can’t attest to that yet…
BTW nice comment.
Jesus, it’s like BatfleckVSupersociopath all over again..
A lot of people seem to be taking RLM’s usual jocular condescension personally simply because they disagree.
That’s not really true. For either movie.
What we “see” in TFA in no way, shape or form describes nor develops those characters. PARTICULARLY Poe Dameron.
Same thing goes for Rey and Finn. Neither has character traits beyond “magical goody two shoes” and “liar” (one each) – and neither develops their character by the end of the movie.
R1 does something similar… but it gets away with it by killing them all off and giving them characterization through “heroic sacrifice”.
Thus they make it through the story with minimal characterization… but feeling more fleshed out thanks to hindsight – and to the fact that some of them are deliberately colorful characters OR designed to lack characterization.
E.g. Jyn and Cassian have some characterization. Some ham-fisted characterization.
Jyn gets her flashback dreams, her rap sheet, her character and abilities as described by Forest Whitaker, her fighting skills (in a scene whose purpose is only to connect all the characters together and showcase their fighting abilities), her saving small children… and her unresolved issues with her father and supposed unwillingness and reluctance to get involved.
But as it is all ham-fisted… we never get the “pirate with a heart of gold” feel from her that we get from Han Solo.
And it’s not the heart of gold part that’s lacking – which is the part that should be hidden.
On the other hand… Cassian DOES get all the “follow the orders” trooper, cold hearted assassin, somewhat conflicted moments… but we never get that heart of gold feel from him.
Is he still in it simply to kill people working for the empire? Was there ever something more in it for him? Is he just a psycho? We don’t know.
Meanwhile, Asian dudes are nothing but color. So much color. Look at all that color. There’s so much color with them, you can’t even see there’s no character underneath all that color.
But my favorite has got to be “the pilot” – who gets what little character he had erased by mind-probing. And that’s a hilarious way to hide the lack of character – by undeveloping it.
Which is similar to The Robot – who has a flaw in his programming so… he’s a robot who acts weird.
But then they all die in the line of duty and get “heroic”, “dedicated”, “brave”, “loyal” etc. etc. hindsight characterization.
It’s a trick… but it works.
Magnificent Seven did that too.
There’s barely any character to any of the characters… but since most of them die… it doesn’t matter.
Same goes for Saving Private Ryan. What’s Vin Diesel’s characterization in that one? Or anyone else’s.
Couple of them have a STORY to tell – but almost no character beyond their role in the war.
It’s a trick… but it works if everyone dies in the end.
Well, I partially disagree!
TFA’s characters were hardly a masterwork of in-depth development. I don’t think the film is genius by any means and I have quite a few issues with it.
To me, however, they had more going on than what we saw (or felt!) in Rogue One. Enough that I was able to stay engaged with TFA.
It is that simple for me.
One can argue that Rogue One is more an ensemble film than a character study. Fine. But that still doesn’t make it a good, interesting, or entertaining/engaging film to watch.
I have no expectations. I expressed my full thoughts elsewhere.
I almost fell asleep during the raid on the Death Star 3.11 for Workgroups.
While R1 managed to hold my attention throughout.
And it had better writing in regard to the universe it’s in.
It’s a better SciFi movie, not just a better Star Wars movie.
Sure, it’s all just piggybacking on what was created by the original movie… but it sticks to it and does it right.
It doesn’t impute magical properties to mechanical objects like lightsabers nor does it handwave everything as “destiny”.
On the other hand it GETS the underlying philosophy of how the magic works in that universe – i.e. that it’s applied Buddhism.
Maybe she can break out that Life Day song and be surrounded by birds.
And cocaine. Can’t forget the cocaine.
Oh sure. It has to be as true to the original as possible.
All very fair and I cannot dispute.
The writing and pacing was far too clunky for me personally, and I was totally checked out by the time Jyn reunited with her old guardian.
I also enjoyed the concept that it did not assign mystical nonsense to mechanical objects. Things felt a little more earned. Furthermore, I didn’t HATE this movie. It just managed to create new and irritating problems for yours truly.
But very well spoken, sir.
Have you accepted Jesus Christ as your personal Lord and Savior?
And this is why I still drop by.
Personally I did not enjoy this movie much at all, but it’s nice to come here for a second, exchange opinions and gather insight.
It’s nice to know there are people who enjoyed this movie on its merits, and not because it merely paraded Star Wars imagery in front of them and awaited applause.
I’m learning things. About myself. And each other.
I loved the boldness it took to kill everyone, but I wish they had given the characters more depth so it would make you feel something. The robot death had more emotional impact than any of the actual people. I will still take this film over any of the prequels.
Caught “Rogue One” on Saturday night with my brother’s kids. One thing I enjoyed was the delicious screams of horror and despair from all the children in the theater. That’s the magic and wonder of Star Wars. It was also nice to see Peter Cushing and Carrie Fisher with their souls ripped out of their bodies, Dracula-style (although I’m pretty sure cocaine devoured Fisher’s long ago).
The rest of the film had me checking my watch every few minutes. By its climax, I was just trying to come up with alternative titles. “The Monotonous Dozen”? “The Mediocre Seventeen”? It was a endless parade of grinding platitudes, flat, sexless characters, endless ‘splosions, all spattered by the man-goo of unintentional comedy. For example at one point in his big, worthless scene, Darth Halloween belted out a pun that was pure Schwarzenegger: “Be careful not to choke on your ambition.”
And I’m pretty sure the rebel alliance is now a metaphor for ISIS, or social justice warriors, or both. In that case, maybe it’s a good thing the kiddies left feeling like they just drank a glass of raw sewage.
I defend the movie because it re-establishes that Peter Cushing is dead again.
Working on it
It’s not “a trick.” It’s a war movie.
The plot needed streamlined; there were one or two too many layers of plot combined with one or two too many locations (and characters). It got confusing at times.
One such time was when that guy tipped the rebels off to the pilot at that trading post in the asteroid belt. It looked exactly like the Jedi Temple city later on. It wasn’t needed. And adding another group of rebels into the mix along with the additional scenes at the refinery was, again, too much plot – unnecessary plot. The main characters suffered; Jyn Erso was underdeveloped. Fan service? Or perhaps trying too hard to not be fan service by adding too many new locales and characters?
Another thing that was too complicated was the ending battle scenes. More specifically, the way the data files had to be sent up to the command ship. It was more akin to a video game where you had to solve a puzzle (Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast; The Force Unleashed) before you could move on to the next level. Again, it would have been better if there were fewer steps: Run this cable! Flip the switch! Climb the tower! Defeat the minor boss! Realign the antenna! Destroy the force shield! There was no emotional heft because there were way to many steps, and I didn’t care enough by the ninth level of the video game.
Other than that. Great SW movie.
I guess maybe someone could have invented a wheel in between Phantom Menace and New Hope….
… oh wait R2D2 has wheels.
Guess who’s back, back ag-
Oh, right, I haven’t seen this movie. Well, I am off, then, off again!
IF a bullfrog had wings it wouldn’t bump his behind every time he hopped. A 65 is a D.
I saw it in 3D, Tarkin and Leia where certainly sy-fy original quality.
As much as Mike mocks the fanboys, the depth of his knowledge of even minor characters brands him as one and the same.
He wanted kiddee fair apparently, instead of a bad ass sci-fi actioner.
Rewatch the review and see how wrong you are, atleast from Jay’s end… goes as far as to insult the audience that disliked Prometheus
Mike gritting his teeth and muttering “fuck yeah” is easily in the top ten funniest things on RLM. LOL everytime.
He’ll deal with your rebel friends soon enough.
Wait. His name wasn’t “Sol” Gerrera?
Hey! Hey! Don’t give them any ideas…
“One could argue ESB and RotJ are unnecessary money grubbing.”
I’m on board with that.
So, not having seen the movie but hearing, seeing, reading, and secret-touching other reviews really don’t make this seem like a movie I’d want to watch. A rebellion sounds like fun with crazy misadventures and skirmishes but this sounds like full on war-on-your-face-loudness with death your only reward. Pass.
The Force Awakens was garbage. If this film is different, more power to it.
Yeah they were. They were huge flaws. TFA was a dumpster fire. I loved the Plinkett reviews of the prequels. But RLM appears to have it ass-backwards on the most recent two films.
I somehow doubt that Mike would really have been satisfied if they’d done his “Ocean’s Eleven… in Spaaaaaace!” idea. With a three-foot tall Ewok acrobat back-flipping over a floor laser grid to get the plans? No thanks.
They had that. It’s called Return of the Jedi.
I thought it was Saul Garrera.
Yeah, I can’t believe they left that bit on the cutting room floor where the old man bowing before Vader’s bacta tank says: “And one other thing, my lord, the woodoo hide you ordered has arrived.”
If the ‘Batman’ universe can keep going for 80 years, I’m pretty sure Star Wars can manage it too. Disney has already recouped most of the money they spent on Lucasfilm – they’ll do just fine.
“Rogue 2”, “Rogue 3: Tokyo Drift”, etc etc.
They are not the worst sin ever, but if they’re poorly written pieces of crap, they deserve to be called out on it.
That’s not the point. There is a difference between what Star Wars truly was and the IP titled “Star Wars” which is currently held by Disney. Sure, you can keep pumping out Star Wars flavored drivel for eternity, but the magic of the original trilogy (in my opinion, the only Star Wars worthy of the name) can never be recaptured.
So yes, the IP will endure and continue to grace us with derivative films best left unmade. As far as I am concerned, however, those films are not Star Wars. Instead, they are hollow, corporate products, far removed from the unique creative conditions and revolutionary ideas that brought about the synthesis of the original trilogy.
To me the backbone of the story was the “hope lies in rebellion”/”the question isn’t what chance do we have, but what choice do we have” plot, and I really didn’t find her speech corny at all, but actually inspiring. The point of Star Wars movies has always been about a small group of rebels fighting against a much more powerful empire, but all the other movies have focussed on the Skywalker lineage and on one-on-one fights between Jedi. It was really great to get to see the bigger picture of the battles fought by the rebels themselves.
I’m not sure where I said Return of the Jedi was an amazing film. Regardless, killing off all the characters doesn’t make for a good film in and of itself: there are plenty of films where this happens. Rather, the killing off of characters can only be as effective as the emotional connection that the audience has formed with said characters…
No without trolling you…. Your words about star wars being dead sound like you are in first year degree English lit. I said Empire isn’t that great. Your thesis doesn’t wash with me.
“Yes, there are x-wings and walkers and all those things, because those things are what the Star Wars universe are made of.”
That was their point: those things are really *all* the Star Wars universe is made of.
Change star wars to marvel or any other Hollywood franchise….. You don’t speak for me…so stop preaching
There’s nothing wrong with condescension, they can condescend on R1 all day long, but this is one of the few instances where they actually feel like hypocrits for loving TFA and ripping on R1, it makes them inconsistent and unfair. Ripping on the prequels is fine, ripping on R1 is fine, but falling for the giant turd that is TFA is nothing less than a demasqué.
You misunderstood: Rouge One is the first release in the new Disney/Maybelline Star Wars cosmetics range, and made over $155M on its first weekend. I believe this is a world record for a cosmetics/skincare launch.
‘But it (TFA) put the necessary work in with characters. We see what Rey’s life
is like before she is thrust into the larger story. We see Finn’s
internal struggle as a soldier in a war he does not want to fight. We
see Poe at the beginning, in the middle of the conflict. We see Kylo
Ren’s plight to be a cool, badass sith and not a whiny brat.’
The characters in TFA are pure crap. I actually prefer no characterization to the hamfisted, forced and unbelievabililty of the ‘characters’ of TFA. We see Rey eat a bowl of soup and sell some parts for five minutes, then she changes in Mary Rey Sue the super warrior princes that can fight, fly and mind control anything she wants and is instantly loved by everyone. Finn is whatever the plot needs him to be. Poe is the ‘best pilot’ of the resistance (we’re literally told this) and nothing more. The characters are crap, their motivations are unclear and their relationships with each other are like they’re written by a five year old. The movie is a pinnacle of stupidity.
Yeah but they’re saying that in conjunction with blaming Disney for “reusing” parts of Star Wars. All while they complain that it’s different but different in the ways they want. But also that there’s too much “fan service” meaning that they recognize things. They say it made them appreciate TFA, which ACTUALLY WAS a cynically cobbled together mickey-mouse blockbuster.
And they don’t even take a moment to address the cinematography and naturalistic beauty and presence and texture the film has beyond “It’s a pretty movie.”
They really missed the target on this.
To be fair, blowing up Alderaan in ANH I think removed any lingering doubts that the Empire were bad guys. I did like however, how it showed life under the Empire, as well as a more morally ambiguous side the the otherwise squeaky clean rebels.
It’s also kind of naive to think that Star Wars wasn’t a cash-cow franchise well before Disney took over it, in fact it was even before the prequels tbh. Spaceballs even did a joke about it in the 80s.
3D is pretty much a nightmare for traditionally shot films. Any shift in focal depth feels like I’m suddenly getting eye cancer.
TFA and R1 are the same: unoriginal, uninspiring. Both had female leads with no charisma. Carrie Fisher looks like a great actor in retrospect, and she was just some pot-smoking hippie they got off the street. I don’t know what’s going on. These movies are just boring. The main supporting male character in both movies (Finn, Mexican guy?) are also boring. They were supposed to replace Han Solo, but compared to Harrison Ford, they feel like amateurs. I think Mike mentioned in some review (Creed?) that the older actors had some secret charisma that made their acting great. He’s definitely onto to something. Please don’t get triggered, it’s just how I felt.
It’s true every time its said.
Yep, thy both liked Prometheus, recommended it.
“You liked ‘Battleship’ and I recommended ‘Dark Shadows,’ what the fuck is happening to us?”
– Jay Bauman
Yes, I want a Star Wars film without Storm Troopers, AT ATs, AT STs, Death Stars, X-Wings, TIE Fighters, Droids, any mention of the Force, Light Sabres, Rebels, Imperials, Sand People…
Just put some muppits in space suits and add a crap romance sub-plot.
Even without having seen it I can truthfully say that Rogue One is the best live-action Star Wars spin-off since Ewoks: The Battle for Endor.
I think there was development of Jyn and really the entire rebellion personified in the scene where a young Jyn is hiding in the hole. She’s alone, cold and afraid, desperately shaking a little light to stay lit to feel some sense of safety. There she was, with just a little beacon of light feeling abandoned and alone in the dark with no hope.
It’s because the new films are corporate products. When movies are designed by committee, this is what you get.
Meat bores me and almond milk is tastier and better for you than regular milk, the only reason I’m not vegan is cheese.
The thing about Batman tough, is that every few years they radically change up the tone and style of the films. Also, thus far, only two of the four directors to have made Batman movies have produced films that weren’t terrible.
Facts. Info on this please
It’s weird, because I was watching the HItB Sucker Punch review the other day and I recall the bit where Jay talks about Snyder’s commentary track on Watchmen and how Snyder’s explanation for all things being in the movie boiled down to “Because it looks cool!”
Serve the story first. Serve the characters. Don’t just go around thinking the surface details of a film are cool and wanting to include them in your version. Ask what they were doing in the original. What was their function from a narrative/story pov? (Mike hit this on the head talking about the AT-AT’s and the sense of menace they bring to the Hoth battle).
Tbh, It sounds like another greatest hits tribute with a darker tone. I’ll catch it when it comes out on-demand.
RLM were only lukewarm at best on Doctor Strange
Wow just watched the new episode with Mrs. Sepia Jack, and it was nearly verbatim our reaction to the movie when we saw it Saturday night. I mean I generally agree with Mike 9 movies out of 10, and Jay about 7-8 out 10, but this was so similar to our reaction it was startling. Also one of the funniest HitB this year!
Yeah my wife turned to me during that scene and said “this feels more like watching you play Uncharted 4, than it does when I’m actually watching you play Uncharted 4… at least that has characters I care about”
It wasn’t a perfect movie, but it was kinda fun. It definitely needed better character development for the 2 leads. I also could have done without a couple of the original trilogy cameos.
I did love the concept of the planet-wide shield that only has one entrance. I thought that was a clever idea to make it more challenging to sneak onto a planet.
Also, no one else seems to like the Tarkin cgi face, but I thought it was perfectly acceptable, and it looked pretty good. The only problem I had with it was the lip movements didn’t seem to match what he was saying. I would have been ok with a lookalike made up to look like the original actor, though.
I think what RLM are saying is that those X-Wings and Walkers are only surface level aspects of Star Wars. HOW they were used in the originals from a story/narrative perspective is what’s important, otherwise one is simply left with ‘fan service’. Which is nice, but does not a good movie make.
You say that like those are the only 2 options on the table. The original star wars trilogy in all its glory is not ‘bad ass’ nothing about it is bad ass. Nor is it kiddie fair, it’s a family adventure film which is enjoyable to people of all ages. Star Wars has never been gritty or dark or any of things that hardcore nerds seem to think it is outside of dumb videogames – the prequels are bad because they are essentially fan films made by George Lucas who has a fundemental lack of understanding of the appeal of Star Wars, but Rogue One is bad in the opposite direction because its a fan film made by fans, who largely also don’t understand the appeal of star wars.
How is it inconsistent or unfair? They liked and enjoyed one movie and have gone to great length to explain why, and didn’t enjoy the other, and explained the distinction.
I dunno, I tend to think Rich is right, the SW universe ultimate exists just to tell the original trilogy story and doesn’t really work for anything else, except for rehashing those elements
Real triumph would be a well made movie with a story and engaging memorable characters.
Disney purchased the Star Wars IP for $4 billion. Fact. The purchase was an investment. Fact. The purpose of an investment is to generate profit.
Disney isn’t making these films because they had a lifelong dream of crafting sci-fi movies. They are making them because they have to. They have a lot to lose.
The originals weren’t “forced” productions. They were the result of a filmmaker realizing his dreams against all odds. The new films are products: an investor going through the motions necessary to generate a return on an investment.
For this reason, they can never be as good. They aren’t inspired. They have no vision. The adversity that Lucas faced while making the originals contributed to their quality. It forced him to grow as a filmmaker. Now, there is no adversity. No reason to push the limits. No reason to take risks…
As a long time fan of HitB I was surprised with their reaction to R1.
Awakens is full of fan service. They are so lazy they don’t even bother coming up with new ships. Just re-painted Tie Fighters. Really?
I agree that Rey and Finn are better characters then Jyn and Cass. Rey is a very likeable character. I also agree that R1 could have done without some of the shout outs to the OT characters like Walrusman and R2 etc.
But for me (and I can only speak for me) Rogue One was much better than Awakens and maybe even better than Jedi. Even with the muddled first act, the rousing third act is what elevates the movie. It’s like someone decided to release an extended edition of New Hope and found the original 40 starting minutes. I enjoyed seeing gold/red leader. I thought Tarkin was a great and needed since him being on the Death Star was to be expected. Was the Vader lightsaber show off pure fan service? Yes, but are you a fan? Well I am and loved it. The series needed a scene like that to further show what a menace Vader was. If you didnt like that scene then I feel bad that you are so jaded.
Yes the movie has some issues which I think are related to the extensive re-shoots and edits (just watch the trailer, the movie was changed from start to finish). But it’s pure Star Wars. And for me that is what I wanted.
Have you seen the prequels? Yes I know you probably have…… Again repeat….. I thought rogue 1 was great…. Little time to develop characters can show not a trilogy with wizards/worries…..obviously your thoughts important….i hope you enjoy your next American blockbuster and post positive constructive thoughts 🙂
I think TFA had weak characterisation but did juuussssst enough to mildly endear me to Rey, convince me of Finn’s reluctant hero arc and somehow make Poe likeable in his minimal screentime via the sheer force of Oscar Issac’s enthusiasm. Did I feel like I knew them as people? Not a chance. Were they likeable enough for me to invest in the proceedings? Barely. They just about passed the minimum standard for me to stay engaged in the film.
However, every time I see clips or trailers for R1 I see Felicity Jones and her neutral, gormless face attempting to render grim/determined/pessimistic but ending up looking like something staring out of the fish counter at the supermarket. She screams STAGE SCHOOL even more than the actor who played Rey.. Combine that with line readings that sound (to my ears) flat and without nuance and you get a character who I’m not excited in any way to see on the big screen. That’s not in any way a sleight against Jones as an actor in general as I thought she was ace in Cemetery Junction, but I have a feeling I’m gonna find it hard to get on-board with the choices she makes in this film.
I dunno, maybe the trailers were designed by a madman trying to sabotage the movie and she’s actually really memorable?
If I learned one thing in my time on this cozy planet: don’t cling to a zombie franchise.
Dude, don’t take this the wrong way, but you’re totally retarded.
STAR WARS: EXPOSITION
Kind of weird that he doesn’t have a penis, but it’s the future, so it takes all kinds.
Damn, smack down. Where did you study film theory, because your logic is indisputable.
I’m joking in case you can’t tell.
She’s a crap actor, yet fanboys shit their drawers over her.
Do I need to draw a picture?
This was the only valid criticism of their review.
Cheese is milk’s bid for immortality.
Two things have happened recently that blow my mind. 1) Trump won. 2) a whole bunch of people think ROGUE ONE is a good movie.
It isn’t. It’s got way too much exposition (the movie TELLS instead of SHOWS), too much of the dialogue (especially the key monologues at the 2nd turning point) are eye-rolling, and there are WAY too many characters I could not give a shit about. Even the new droid – who I do like – failed to make me laugh (BB8’s “thumbs up” shot in FORCE AWAKENS was funnier than all of K’s scenes put together, in terms of energy and joy).
As for the CGI characters . . . while I liked seeing Tarkin, I couldn’t tell you a word he said because I was TOO DISTRACTED by him. And Leia looked fucking horrible. What a dogshit move.
I’m extremely critical of TFA ( I rank it the 4th best Star Wars movie) but it succeeded in being more fun, more emotional, and more mythic than ROGUE ONE – which had its moments, but was still a disappointing movie. I could hardly agree with the RLM guys more. About the only thing I differ with them on is that I’m fine with having a “Saving Private Ryan” feel to some of the action. In fact, it would’ve been great, had we given a shit about the characters.
Not looking forward to Han Solo: the Teenage Years, nor Star Wars: MANY BOTHANS DIE.
It’s NOT better than TFA. I can’t believe so many people are saying this.
To be fair, the robots, and not just the X-Wings were painted black. Jar Jar Abrams is a fucking genius. Who else would’ve thought of black paint?
So glad we have RLM to help us supplicant ourselves to his vision.
Obviously. It is a bad film. End of story. You say so. Call the thought police if anyone has difference of opinion.
Agreed except for the Thought Police part.
Not really. They got my money. I just know shit when I see it, and ROGUE ONE isn’t very good.
Sad they got your money and you didn’t enjoy the film.
You gonna make rent? Need to borrow a couple bucks?
I have paypal.
I’ll be fine. I’m just kinda Mad.
There may come a day when I no longer need to see a Star Wars movie in order to have an opinion on it. And that is the day I finally grow up.
What? I don’t the joke?
Am I the only one who likes Ewoks.
You and furries.
Tell that to James Bond. I’m guessing you hate everything since Connery too (does “Never say Never” count)?
shut up skidmark
you are being the thought police here
You forgot to mention the part where Darth Vader force chokes the director guy in his lava palace, then looks directly into the camera and says “Don’t ‘CHOKE’ on your aspirations!!!” Followed by a laugh track.
I think it’s the story that all the 30 year old fans of the original want now that we’re grown up.
We’ve grown past the Ewoks and Gungans and family friendly Star Wars generational story, the Force Awakens addressed that for the 5 year-olds just hoping on the figurine/lego train. This movie is the Y in the road leading to the mass produced side story universe that the fan boys live in (I don’t want to call it EU out of confusion, but it is the new “Canon EU”).
This is the exact same thing as the Disney Marvel universe. They’re not trying to make a new AFI top 100 contender, they know that will never happen and the more they try the worse they will fail (the RLM suggestion of an Ocean’s 11 caper would have panned so much more, to far from the main path leads to the Holiday Special). Disney is trying to lock in the established fans by feeding them more of the universe, EXACTLY like every Marvel movie since roughly… Captain America 1.
I groaned at the annoyingly obvious Blue Milk fan service and a few others. But I didn’t shoot a load when the Vader, Tie Fighters, or AT-ATs showed up. That wasn’t fan service, they are the universe. Like Tarkin you can’t really tell this story without any of them.
They exist the way the yard line stripes on a football field exist in every football game. I don’t want to see replays of the same football game every weekend, and I don’t want to be “shocked” by a water polo game breaking out in the middle of the field. With Star Wars I just want to see a new game, with new players, and a new outcome. But with the same universe I’ve come to know, understand, and enjoy.
Also, I hoped to God they weren’t going to show Leia and just stick to the shot of her back. But then she turned around and I was horrified to see her CGI visage looked like Princess Fiona from Shrek.
I agree about the character development, but the end would have sucked more if I had been more involved in them expecting them to fall in love at the end. God that would be depressing, this isn’t a Sundance indie movie where you’re trying to shock the audience with the twist deaths at the end. It’s Star Wars.
This was a one off story and the characters needed to be disposable. Would RLM had been cheering if they after the credits from the debris Jyn and Cass stand up followed by:
The End… ?
Carrie Fisher just some pot-smoking hippie they got off the street?!
She’s Debbie Reynolds daughter. She grew up in golden age of film with the A list mother who was in “Singing in the Rain”. Her Hollywood pedigree makes the Sheen Family look like a bums off the street. Her first movie was when she was 9, her breakout role in ANH was when she was 20. It’s only shocking that she wasn’t a more prominent child actress.
While I thought it was a little overdone and it was still noticeable, Tarkin and Leia are on the far side of the uncanny valley, not the near side like every other CGI face till now (compare to Jeff Bridges in Tron 2). They did pretty dang good considering Tarkin is pretty much a secondary actor in this.
I actually liked that they packed this with characters from A New Hope (GJ on casting people for the rebel briefing room). This movie is like the gateway leading you off the path of the same old Skywalker story-line reminding you that the world of ANH is still there and can be fleshed out, as opposed to “we need to make everything different for the sake of different, paint the Tie Fighters black”.
That’s true. The only death I felt sorry for was his. But if I’d been more attached to the characters in a one off movie where they’re all supposed to die I’d feel pretty shitty for Christmas. This isn’t some deep indie movie gunning for an oscar, it’s Star Wars. I want simple and comfortable in a Star Wars movie, not “The Killing Fields”.
Whip up some characters long enough to tell the story then wipe them clear, they knew in advance there would be no “Rouge One Two”. It’s basically just there to rebuild the Episode 4 universe so they can fill it with annual movie fodder.
Same as Disney’s Marvel Universe.
Jay, you’d love The Autopsy of Jane Doe.
I meant that scene specifically, I’ve seen it mentioned a few times.
Funny, good scene.
I found her to be decent, I just hate the writing at Maz’s castle.
She has fanboys because she is really really ridiculously good looking.
I see where you’re coming from – and the problem is I can’t actually supply the material but I feel like in the sci-fi universe you might have more interesting traps set than just laser grids, perhaps diversifying the types of things people have to do to perform the heist. Has there ever been a heist movie where someone has to go through zero gravity? Could be a neat scene. Idk. There has to be more things you can come up with. A room filled with flesh eating nanobots? High tech security cam invasion? Jedi mind tricks? Things man, they could do some things.
That’s a one-liner that’ll work even better on the XXX parody.
So uhh… that’s it?
I giggled when that one Ewok got shot in RotJ, other than that I feel surprisingly indifferent about midgets in furry costumes.
mate – thirty year old fans of the original. the original came out in ’77 – do the maths. am going to turn away from this website and all content because of newbies like you bitching. you really have no idea
Ohhhhh yeah… sort of. But that was in a dream so the stakes were kind of iffy imo.
The lips and eyeblinks are most of the time responsible for the uncanny effect.
There are too many animators working in CG who have no idea about Timing and Movement. In general, movements tend to be too fluid on CGI effects, especially mouth movements. Which are usually very fast and should therefore be choppy, but they always make the mistake of morphing from one mouth shape to another.
I remember the videogame Dead Space using a couple of times zero gravity during the action gameplay.
Yep, I notice this shit all the time. They overly smooth out the movement of CG, when in real life if you watch a person – they’re not all that graceful. I mean it obviously depends on the person, but real life motions just don’t look that perfect.
I remember the CGI Jeff Bridges in TRON that looked kinda okay, but only as long as he kept his mouth shut.
At least we can all still agree that Episodes 1-3 sucked, right?
Given their earlier attempts at spit-roasting Luke and Han, it seems plausible that the ewoks ate the bodies of the stormtroopers who were killed during the battle of Endor.
Well it’s hardly an abomination in any sense. Surely you’ve seen The Room? For sake of comparison.
The writing could certainly be better…
It was prequel level boring. The people here defending R1 aren’t even defend the movie, they are just defending the third act. Two-thirds of the movie was boring and stupid, and people here are shocked Jay, Mike, and Rich didn’t like it.
The movie made me less excited for Episode 8 because it obvious Disney will be dangling callbacks in that movie too. This is what we will be getting from now on. Hey guys remember tauntauns? Hey guys remember IG-88? Yes Disney I do. They were in a better movie that you had no part in making.
It is Disney we’re talking about after all.
Letter grades are confusing and useless. How would one even convert that? 65 is alright and a half.
Your comparison amuses me.
The decision to be vegan is supported by scientific evidence. It’s an idea actually worth spreading.
Hahahaha, nailed it
I liked Jinn more than Rey because she was flawed and the movie seemed way less desperate for me to like her. The criticism that many of the characters were thinly drawn is accurate. They could have gone more into how her backstory affected her personality, because that would really fuck someone up and the negative sides of her problems with authority, but I bought into her motivation of completing her fathers legacy more than Reys motivation of being bored and happening to be there when a movie happened.
Ewoks are sick. Too bad those spin-off movies sucked.
Every believer thinks his idea is worth spreading, and veganism is about as scientific as creationism. It gives a couple of nods to it to give credence to its dogma.
I agree with everything you said but still think it’s a good movie, just low standards I guess…
He’s not even bitching…
Parroting the South Park criticism of TFA doesn’t really make a lot of sense, seeing as this movie is a prequel so they were limited in the amount of new concepts they could add. The few original ideas they did come up with I liked a lot.
Hell yeah, I want a depressing sour ending. I should have been in tears.
This was kinda just “yep, fair enough, tastefully done”.
This is not to say I wanted more relationship however.
The action is a lot of fun to watch.
It’s not that dark or abrasive, it’s just grittier than has been in a Star Wars film before.
I agree besides the part about the videogame ending, which I enjoyed.
It’s meant to be a bittersweet ending, they both get want they wanted in spite of dying. Neither character cared about love. Jyn wanted to redeem her father by completing his legacy, making him the hero who created the means for destroying the death star rather than simply a monster who helped make it in the first place. And Cass (I think) wanted to sacrifice everything for the rebellion and do something that would really move it forward as opposed to all the petty assassinations and guerilla attacks he’d been involved with up until that point.
I liked the ending way more than the ‘let’s blow up another death-star’ / sequel setup / another lightsaber battle ending of TFA.
Getting tired of reading how people were more attached to K-2SO.
I was just wondering why he was so difficult to kill when Jyn killed one with a single shot earlier in the film.
Also, why didn’t they give him a gun sooner? Ridiculously accurate.
I didn’t find his sarcastic version of 3PO’s odds calculation amusing.
It’s not old actors having more charisma or whatever. It’s a general shift in film-making away from complex characters and towards bland inoffensive audience surrogates, which teenagers can project themselves on. That’s why they always go ‘WO-AH MAN’! and laugh whilst flying a space-ship or whatever when in their universe flying a spaceship should be as everyday and ordinary as driving a car is to us.
WOOOOAH man! Is that a lightsaber, that is crazy cool! Look at me, *swish swish* I’m a Jedi. How funny is the force? Take a picture of me holding this thing!
I’m totally supermanning it up right now. Are you seeing this shit? Look at me flying around. Just like an actual superman. LOL.
Hahaha, you’re very uninformed.
Forks Over Knives
It’s actually carnism that is totally indefensible and supported by dogma.
At least Christians only ask people to read one book.
Just like to point out that what you’re referring to is Rey’s force power of foresight and not a magical property of the lightsaber itself.
Yeah, she gets that force power too…
Yes you are right. The cantina bar guys and R2 and Threpio were just too integral to the story to be taken out.
I agree with everything here with one exception. I think you didn’t like the CGI Tarkin because you knew going in it was CGI. I didn’t know, and I thought they got an actor that looked just like the original. I had no idea it was CGI until I left the theatre. I think Tarkin was phenomenal. Also, I think all the “fan-service” was fine since the “stealing the plans” mission we always knew was literally right before A NEW HOPE, so I have zero problem with all the fan service stuff. If there was ever a movie it would be OK to include it, it would be this one. It just wasn’t fun. That is the fact.
Jyn and Cassian?
I’d totally watch the bible in documentary form, unfortunately only hollywood films instead, although I’m looking forward to seeing those…
You can read The China Study if books are your thing. 🙂
I think Forrest Whitakers character couldn’t run to the space-ship because he was very obviously crippled, could barely walk and didn’t want to slow them down.
Sorry to say but you need an eye-check. Tarkin being CG is almost immediately obvious. They did well, don’t get me wrong. Somebody not noticing in 3D or in DVD resolution I could forgive.
There were bits of what can be considered fan service that I thought the movie would have been better off without, like that pointless C-3PO and R2D2 cameo for example.
Maybe that’s it. I watched it in 3D. I thought he looked good.
Yes. My R1 movie would have focused more on the power struggle between Krennic and Tarkin. Galen would be coerced by Krennic to make the Death Star operational, so Krennic could take control. And it would be basically a spy thriller with Galen trying to get in contact with the rebellion and give them the plans.
Same with Tarkin, when they first show him it’s just his back, then he walks up to the window through which you can see them putting the finishing touches on the Death Star and you get a vague reflection of his face on the window. I thought ‘oh that’s a clever way to get around him being CGI, he’ll just speak with his back turned, very tasteful’ then he starts walking around all over the place and making all of these weird places and the limitations of what their CGI can achieve became VERY obvious.
I get the criticism that people think this is the wrong tone for a Star Wars movie and I can’t really come up with a counter-argument to that as what Star Wars represents to each individual is so subjective, but if they are really going to make as many films in this universe as they intend to make I’d personally like them to really mix things up and get weird with it. Sure, have a grim dark Saving Private Ryan war movie, have a comedic caper, have a serious Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon style jedi training movie. Go nuts. The RLM guys talked a lot about the Marvel movies in this review, but the best Marvel movies are the ones that really fuck with the formula e.g. Winter Soldier.
yes agree with you 100%
I agree about the first 40 minutes. The movie is not a masterpiece. I don’t really mind the CGI Tarkin. But personally I agree with you, I would have casted a replacement and used make up etc.
Right! If you are going to complain about fan service, that 100% applies to Awakens. The whole movie is one nod/homage/reference to the OT.
Yes, I agree it was made for “us”.
The petty careerist squabbling between the generals or whatever they are called in Star Wars-verse was the most interesting part of the movie imo.
If you didn’t like Rogue One, that’s “OK”. But if your complaint is its “full of fan service” but yet you were fine with Force Awakes – The Fan Service, then I don’t get that.
Just consider every bit with JUST the Millennium Falcon that was in the OT,
1. Turret shoots tie fighters – check
1b. Shoots the exact same tie fighters (30 years later) – check
2. Hyperdrive is having problems – check
3. Breath masks – check
4. Smuggling compartment – check
5. Training orb – check
6. Chess board – check
7. Kessel run reference – check
8. Calling the Falcon garbage/junk – check
9. Repairing the Falcon – check
10. Hitting the Falcon so it turns on – check
That’s just the Falcon, which in and of itself is fan service.
Don’t get me wrong, I enjoyed Awakens, but as South Park pointed out as only they can, the movie leans HEAVILY on member berries/fan service.
I haven’t seen the movie, but I can imagine the scene would have worked gangbusters if Forrest Whitaker was willing to escape with the rebels, and one of the rebels goes like “let go of me, you crippled f—-!”
I loved that part and I’m not sorry.
The landspeeder ‘sploded!
Yeah, no matter how you do a Star Wars movie, these guys are not gonna like it. Not sure why they review them if their core opinion is that none should be made at all. They are starting to sound more cynical than funny. Think they’ve been doing this too long by now and are dreading even showing up to tape these. But hey, they got $16K coming in every month from Patreon alone, so…. gotta wake up an do work, even if you’re sick of it.
You hear fan service because they trashing the “idiots” in the theatre clapping and enjoying seeing these things on the screen again. Their hate for people who get happy from references is real in this video.
Can’t wait for their next video where they put down all the commenters here who doesn’t agree with them.
Except the distinction doesn’t make much sense. A load of fan service? Check for both movies, Badly/underwritten characters? Check for both movies. On top of this TFA had an idiotic plot that Mike should have torn apart, if he had used the same standards as he did for the prequels. The only arguments that made sense was that TFA ‘looks more bright’ and apparently Mike likes Daisy Ridley’s acting more. I personally couldn’t stand her, but ok, that’s taste I guess.
Well, maybe an abomination is indeed a bit hard, I’ll stick with ‘piece of crap’ from now on.
Everyone who’s defending the meandering plot, the cynical fan-boy bullshit the marketing executives shoehorned into the film, and the excessive supplanting of nostalgia imagery as substance – you’re the people Mike, Jay, and Rich are making fun of in the intro of this vid.
Think about that for a second.
Sorry you didn’t like Rogue One, but it was a new movie. TFA was a movie we’d already seen in the 70s.
OMG. I’ve thought about it for a second, and you’re right…. I liked this movie and I think their review is shit. Therefore, I’m among the people that these middle aged hipsters are making fun of, with their inconsistent, hypocritical criticisms. These guys who hated this one, but FUCKING LOVED TFA and Marvel comics movies are making fun of ME! My self esteem is in shambles now!
It was a 2+ hour movie. Why did seeing the cantina bar guys for four seconds and the backs of R2 and C3PO for two seconds bother you so much?
Well, you don’t have to agree with what they’re saying, because that’s not how intelligent people derive their own opinions. But, you SHOULD find how cynical and masturbatory this film was to be funny, unless you’re one of those aforementioned people – your reactionary comment is indicative of such.
With that in mind, if someone else’s opinions totally don’t affect you, then why go so far out of your way to be disparaging against an opposing opinion from your own? I’m here because I want to know what they thought about the movie, and it’s not like I haven’t disagreed with Mike and Jay’s opinion before.
Why are you here? For the trollz? ZOMG, SO META! Post a few memes, amirite?
I’d like to thank HitB for saying what I was trying to say to all my friends Thursday night only to get the same reactions that most of the comments are echoing.
Exactly. This review is a crock of shit. I disagreed with them before but this is the first time its annoyed me.
Because it stopped the movie just to show you these guys. Might as well put arrows pointing at them. And if it was just these two scenes, it might not have been so bad. It felt like the moment they hit Jeddah the parade of callbacks started.
I don’t think any of the actors for the main new characters in either RO or TFA are any good (at least in these roles). Not the one who plays Rey or the one who plays Finn or the one who plays Poe or the one who plays Kylo Ren or the one who plays Jyn or the one who plays Cassian. Of all the actors out there looking for work, these were the best they could find? The casting directors for these roles should be fired, ASAP.
I don’t know, I could just be a curmudgeon, though. I mostly watch old movies–30s & 40s primarily, but up to the 80s for some genres. I don’t think most actors in big movies these days are any good, nor are the movies they star in any good.
That said, Mark Hamill and Carrie Fisher also sucked in the originals. It’s easy to ignore that though (mostly), because the characters are decent, the story is involving, and they’re surrounded by much better actors, like Alec Guinness, Harrison Ford, Peter Cushing, etc.
I enjoyed RO very much and thought the characters were fine. Though the actors were lacking, it was not enough to stop my enjoyment. My biggest complaint with Felicity Jones was something she couldn’t even help: I kept getting distracted by her big front teeth. She’s got a real Bugs Bunny thing going on.
Anybody who said they hated the last Vader scene is a fucking liar.
Peter Cushing was a lovely man and a great actor. I mean, it doesn’t have much to do with the review (I’m not watching it till I’ve seen the film) but it’s worth repeating. Loved his wife Helen. Loved animals. Best friend of Christopher Lee. I don’t know how I feel about him being CGI-ed, but it might remind people that Tarkin was at least as much the main villain of the original as Darth Vader.
Probably overly snarky for this site, but it’s a criticism of mainstream American cinema than Black actors have to be de-sexualized so as not to offend the sensitivities of white audiences.
I don’t think this is always the case, but I’d say it applies to Finn. He certainly wasn’t going to be putting the moves on anybody. In the Plinket review of TFA Mike even acknowledges this, although he’s decrying the lack of sexual tension in the film as a whole.
The original Star Wars, as released in 1977, and before tampering by Lucas, def had a “grittier” vibe than any of the subsequent releases. While I loved the first film, I never got totally onboard with ESB and didn’t care for RotJ.
I think Rogue One is closest in tone to the original film.
Force Awakens seems to appeal to people that preferred Empire Strikes Back.
Hey, Vader has always enjoyed a bit of ironic humour.
“Apology accepted, Captain Needa.” (Hiyo!)
“We would be honoured if you would join us.” (Boom boom!)
I think you may have seen Star Wars too many times.
Because there is humour and lightheartedness throughout (that is dulled after repeat viewings) that I wouldn’t really describe as gritty. Although the production value you could call gritty…
11. “I got a bad feeling about this.” – check
1. “I got a bad fee-”
Mike is making fun of himself in this review, or more accurately, engaging in self-loathing.
He displays more knowledge about the series than I ever did.
Since you ask, some new memorable moments from this movie have stuck with me:
– The rebel desperately trying to get his colleagues’ attention through the gap in the door before passing them the disk
– The ‘Melancholia’ style shot of the Death Star from director whatsisname’s perspective on the ground.
– K2’s line “I find her answer vague and unconvincing”
– Scenery shots such as the bleak farm at the beginning, and the Maldives planet at the end, and the death star blowing up Chinatown
– The X-wing crashing against the shield
– Vader’s spa treatment
– The conversation with the inventor and the [googles it] Krennic in the beginning, where the inventor sadly tries to claim “My memory is not what it was…”
– The psychic octopus [I know a lot of internet nerds are criticising this creature for some reason, but what did you want to see instead? Another Rancor? A twentieth-century sports commentator with two heads?]
Most people I know who’ve seen it say it’s their favourite scene – it’s shot like a horror film and effective at conveying the victims’ sense of dread. I don’t see the problem. It’s something new, and it’s not out of character in any way. What do the critics want, Vader just standing in the same spot he was at the end of Episode III, still waiting for the Death Star to be built, occasionally turning around to ask where Padme (or Snuffleupagus) is, and shouting ‘Noooooooo’?
Not everybody likes everything, which is cool. So maybe Mike/Jay/Rich just don’t like war movies (grim by genre) or grim westerns very much, and can’t appreciate the “war” or “grim western” side of “Rogue One?” They thought “Fury” was incredibly ok even though it’s the one of the best war films in about a decade. (Any arguments?) And they rarely reference recent hits and hallmarks of the genre outside of Tarantino’s goofy pop stuff — Das Boot, Come And See, Band of Brothers, Peckinpah, Eastwood, Generation War, Big Red One, Paths of Glory, Full Metal Jacket — when critiquing film, probably because they don’t care very much. Note how the namecheck “Saving Private Ryan” an 18-year-old somewhat shmaltzy movie as the only thing to compare Rogue to? Which is cool. I personal have a really small tolerance for Spielbergy/Zemeckis cutesy stuff — Back to the Future/Ghostbusters is just fine, and “Tremors” is one film I could have probably skipped, but I still enjoy the RLM detailed critiques. I like all of Jay’s “feel bad” and “weird art” picks too. Maybe it’s time for the guys to start feeling worse, for the better? Merry Christmas!
Look up ‘sucked’ in a dictionary and you’ll find a picture of Jar Jar Binks getting his head caught in the pod-racer beams.
I was annoyed only about the hypocritical fan service argument. I respect the arguments about the weak characters.
I have to admit being swayed by the negative more than the positive and do want to give it a fairer shot. After surprisingly enjoying a couple of F&F movies I re-evaluated some opinions. I’ll see R1 – after the holidays.
More importantly it makes the SW universe smaller, a point they made in the review.
Do you think they also ate the marauders in the battle for Endor?
I want to know what the point of the tentacle monster was!
It served no purpose, other than to remove the pilot’s character.
It seemed like Saw didn’t trust him for reasons unknown, especially considering he had a fucking hologram tape of Galen that backed up his story ffs.
Yes. The family in Caravan of Courage were also eaten in a feast celebrating the victory of the Ewoks over the Gorax.
After seeing your other comment about the ewok movie I’m starting to believe this one isn’t a sarcastic joke about how it’s not difficult to be the best spin-off movie to date.
I don’t have to agree with what they’re saying, but I do have to agree with you that the film was comically cynical and “masturbatory”(huh?) or else I’m a “cynical fan-boy” worthy of derision. Got it.
Why am I here? Well I’m here in the comment section of this movie review to comment on the movie review.
More specifically I’m here to express the opinion that this review is shit. I’m here to point out their weak, over-reaching criticisms and how inconsistent they are when compared to movies they’ve favorably reviewed that could be said to have the very same flaws (especially TFW).
Why are you here? Because it’s not because you want to know their opinion of this movie. If you’ve watched the video, you’ve already done that. What you’re “here” doing is disparaging strangers on the internet who don’t share your assessment of this review. You sure you’re not the one here to troll?
Fanboy/marketing “It is worth seeing it for the Vader scene alone”
So the best scene is like 30 seconds long where heroes are cut to pieces by a villain who no longer let’s minions board first and who ultimately fails to recover data from a bunch of nobodies we do not care about, making him an even bigger failure? Was Vader no longer confident in himself in A New Hope when he let the minions be cannon fodder?
This movie is like Return of the King ending with the eagles actually being dragons that shred the hobbits to bits then drop them in lava and as they cut away from the screaming we see a uncanny valley, Arwen with no soul saying “hope”. This movie is nightmare fuel for kids and the only good thing about them seeing it is that they will not grow up to be Star Wars fans and Disney will have to stop milking this franchise. So bring those kids to the theater!
RLM is right. This movie is for neck beards who want to see lightsabers and a pointless space battle we already know the outcome of. They do not care about plot, characters, arcs. They care about shiny lights and special effects. They probably targeted them because they knew this was a rushed film and also knew that irrational fanboys will defend things to the death (see these comments). Jyn was just to get women in the door, when Disney has no idea what women loved about the first trilogy. Hint. It was Han and the romance especially in Empire. Instead we get asexual fanboy porn.
It’s a non-sarcastic joke by the fact of it being the only live-action spin-off produced since. Like a racing game telling you that first lap is your best lap.
Besides those who’re lieing to themselves they just didn’t want Vader in the movie at all. In which case, I have to side with those that say the movie would have been hurt (concept-wise considering its position in the timeline) without him there.
He was done as tastefully as possible, even down to his “janky” (see: correct and lovingly crafted) suit.
To anyone who dislikes his pun; I hate you, don’t speak to me.
I am 35. Loved the movie. Hesitating whether I could take my 6 year old son to the cinema to see this………… I do not think I would have hesitated on that in 1977
You would have a argument that held weight if these were not sequels, prequels where tone is already established. As far as the Western analogy you gave…Unforgiven and Silverado are both entertaining films. Star Wars is more like Silverado (who Lawrence Kasdan wrote along with most of the decent Star Wars movies). A sequel that was like Unforgiven would not make any sense.
“This movie is for neck beards who want to see lightsabers”
They certainly failed to deliver on that since there were no lightsabers until the last few moments of the movie. That was one of the things that was refreshing about this movie actually for a Star Wars movie; not relying on lightsaber battles; sort of the opposite of what you’re saying.
You’re doing more mental gymnastics than the defenders of the movie lol.
Also kids are going to fucking love this movie. Manchildren love it. If I saw this movie as a child I would think it’s the coolest thing ever.
– The psychic octopus? Since they were going for “reality” and this was a ragtag group hiding from the empire something more practical would have been much more effective. Waterboarding or any common forms of interrogation torture. The octopus was once again another failed gimmick that took me out of the film and had me thinking of another film. In this case Star Trek : The Wrath of Kahn. Maybe Disney was going for the tentacle porn demographic of neckbeards.
“(I’m not watching it till I’ve seen the film)”
Very good move. They spoil the shit out of it. you should probably avoid this comment section also, for that reason.
Yes, that too. So it is a sarcastic joke. Note that by sarcasm I do not mean irony.
To clarify, do you like the spin-off ewok movies?
That’s a little difficult for a simple “yes” or “no”. The kid performances of the first are too annoying to make it enjoyable, while Wilford brings certain charm to the second. As kids movies I would recommend them for kids who are post-Disney, but pre-Spielberg.
I think it all comes down to what is more important for you to enjoy a movie. For Mike & Jay it’s mostly characters, so they were more forgiving to TFA’s shameless fanservice.
This movie didn’t have a compelling cast of characters so they are a bit harsher on this one (and probably because TFA took all the remaining goodwill for SW).
See, for me I can still enjoy a movie quite a bit if it still has plenty of good visuals or great action (I haven’t seen Rogue One by the way). And I bet you have different priorities and expectations when you see a movie as well. So the fanservice is not really what broke the movie for Mike and Jay, it’s just one thing they enjoy picking apart, that’s what they always do.
“Disney has no idea what women loved about the first trilogy. Hint. It was Han and the romance especially in Empire.”
Sure, Han was great, but it’s quite insulting to say that’s the main thing women loved about the OT. Hint. Women can love epic adventure/war tales of good vs. evil, too, even if they don’t have a love story. (I doubt I’m the only woman who fast-forwards through all the Arwen parts with Aragorn in LOTR.) Plenty of women liked this movie and it had fuck all to do with Jyn being female.
B-b-but is it better than the Holiday Special?
And did CGI-Lea had a coke nail?
Saw Gerrera’s character signified the equally corruptive potential of insurgency. He’s the Rebellion’s Vader – a fallen figure, who turned away from orthodoxy and moved towards extremism; more machine, now, than man (he even has the respirator to boot!). To complete this picture, the mind-reading-tentacle-monster sequence mirrors the Mind Probe scene in A New Hope. Both Vader and Gerrera share the same modus operandi: to achieve their ends whatever the means. And their means, despite aiming towards divergent ends, can be similarly contemptible.
So, while it served no significant plot purpose, the scene in question was a much-welcome character moment in a film that does suffer, in part, from meagre characterisation. But at the same time, there was no plot contrivance here. Gerrera had gone rogue; operating without oversight, he had lost himself in this war – and his paranoia was rampant (“Lies! Everyday! More lies!”). So, his doubting Bodhi Rook in the first instance was perfectly consistent with his established character. But moreover, it WAS conceivable – from Gerrera’s point of view – that the device Rook presented wasn’t what it seemed. Perhaps it was a tracking device, that would activate if Gerrera triggered the hologram? Perhaps it was a bomb, that would detonate if the hologram was switched on? Whatever its appearance, a hardened guerrilla leader would hardly accept an offering from the enemy without taking every measure to ascertain its true nature.
All this is to say – Gerrera was a Nietzschean exemplar, who in fighting monsters had himself become monstrous. Tentacularly so!
I don’t agree, I think TFA felt like it was almost written by Mike in terms of hitting the important character notes he has brought up time and time in his reviews – TFA is not perfect, the plot has a few issues, and yes it does have fan service, but the important thing is the execution – the tone, and the new characters were engaging enough to override any plot clunks. Kylo Ren is a distinct SW villain and worked great. Rey and Finn feel nothing like Han, Luke or Leia. The movie has legs, and moves along with a fun energy. It’s like when Mike compared Avengers to The Dark Knight and the Amazing Spiderman being stuck in the middle tone-wise. TFA is Avengers, but R1 is Amazing Spiderman – the tone is muddled, and confused. TFA also was the first post-prequel SW movie, it had to play it safe and it had different goals to achieve than R1 – R1 has a ton of plot, but no real story or heart. Mike isn’t saying that fan service just automatically ruins a movie, but if that’s all there is, and the rest of the movie is miserable, pretentious and over-serious than all the sight gags stick out like a sore thumb – where as were more forgivable in TFA because its a fun romp that was playful and whimsical
Well said. And if that is the route they wanted to go with Vader, why not just make him the principle villain of the film instead of Crennic? Its not fan service at the expense of story if he’s the main antagonist, but when the last 5min of the movie is spent on characters we only know from ANH and all our main “heroes” are dead then there is no purpose for it to exist other than to satisfy nerd blood lust.
The porn analogy is spot on.
The characters in TFA all pass the Plinkett test – and you know who all of them are, and what motivates each of them within minutes of each one being introduced. And they all have appropriate arcs that serve the story.
By comparison: Who is Jyn Erso? What defines her? Bitterness? Hope? How does it switch from one to the other, and why? Who are any of these people? Why should we care?
overall I enjoyed the movie, but yes, some of the fan service bits were a little too much.(R2D2,C3P0, Doll Leia, even Vader, while fun at first, didn’t really need to be in the movie)
Also, CG grandmaff Tarkin, while adding to the story, was really distracting to look at.
The 20 minute screening to moms and web fanboys is a social marketing technique. For example the fanboys are known as “evangelists”, they have websites with a dedicated audience that values their opinions and so forth. Giving them a sneak peek at the film is a way for Disney to get the fanboys to do their marketing for them for free, and pull people into the theaters.
I apologize. I was completely wrong. She was not smoking pot when she filmed the OT, she was doing cocaine. And, yes, her film career is as impressive as Harrison Fords. For example, in 2016 she won an academy award for doing the voice of Leia Organa in Lego Star Wars: The Force Awakens Video Game….
And in case you didn’t notice, I didn’t say she was a bad actor. I complimented her for being a good actor, even though she didn’t have much experience and was hardcore drug user.
That scene was hands down the best Darth Vader bad-assery to date. So great to see Vader take out a shit load of people using his force power and lightsaber butchery utlizing the power of modern-day special effect that didn’t look like some cheesy choreographed dance like all the lightsaber fights in the horrible prequels
I wouldn’t say I’m shocked they didn’t like it, but I do find it extremely inconsistent and unfair considering the way they fawned over The Force Awakens which all the same criticisms could be made about.
I hated the prequels and I wasn’t bored at all during the movie, and if this movie is “stupid” then so is the entire Star Wars franchise, including the original trilogy. (Do you know how dumb and impractical tanks that walk on giant stilt-legs would be? Why are all the Storm Troopers human when the universe is full of all these different species? How come Han understands Chewbacca’s growling as if he’s speaking a language? With the way he gets around, how does R2 navigate a sandy rocky terrain in the beginning of A New Hope? etc etc etc)
It is not insulting. Women and men are different. The only people that believe they are and that gender is a social construct are the mentally ill women over at websites like “The Mary Sue” which is a site owned by a rich CIS gendered white guy who laughs at it all.
“Epic adventure/war tales of good vs. evil”. Don’t know what movie you were watching but it was not Rogue One. Rogue one was as morally grey as the outfits the “heroes” wore. Yet another problem with this film. Star Wars was always very clear cut on good and evil because it was escapism. Now if you want a “real war movie” then feature the arms dealers, the politicians whose campaigns are funded by them and the banks who loan to both sides of a conflict.
The prequels were more about how real war works and the Emperor was more like a modern politician billionaire playing havoc with the world (someone like George Soros) and Anakin was pretty much George Bush. Reality does not always make for a good film/escapism.
Agreed this is a pretty outdated notion, especially when these days girl geeks now outnumber guy geeks and seem to make up the majority of the fandom for most of these big properties.
I agree the Cantina guys was lame. It made no sense they’d be walking around Jeddah when they are supposed to be in Tatoonie a week or two later bumping into protaganists in both place. But it was such a minor event I didn’t care that much. R2 and C3PO didn’t bother me at all. They were droids in the rebellion. Seeing them in a shot on the rebel base made sense. In fact it was nice to see them for second for me.
Very true. I think they’re also pandering to the Chinese audience. Chinese films seem to focus more on style rather than substance. The characters and the plot tend to be shallow. It’s more about how the movie looks (aka the fight scene choreography).
No they don’t. The traffic on websites like “The Mary Sue” is hilariously bad. I also made a stupid TFA theory video as soon as the movie came out with 500,000 views that tells me how many men and women viewed it under analytics. 90 percent men and 10 percent women and women actually liked Rey over Jyn.
The statement “girl geeks now outnumber guy geeks” is the most absurd thing I have ever seen. Where were all these “girl geeks” for the Ghostbuster’s film which received rave reviews from Sony paid off reviewers?
Anyways have fun living in the fantasy bubble where you think people like” girl geek superstars” Sam Maggs are actually popular with her 100 views on videos on her youtube account and 1-2 upvotes on idiotic tweets about a book she wrote that no one cares about and that has probably sold 10 copies. Meanwhile videos where she claimed virtual rape in GTA 5 that lampoon her have millions. Just because that joke of a human being who probably only took up this “girl geek” crusade to exploit a few social outcasts after failing to find employment after majoring in something like gender studies (where opinion hard countered by science and fact masquerades as fact) pushes the idea that “girl geeks” are a huge audience and should be the target audience of all movie and game developers says something does not make it true. Just because Bioware (dying company) recently hired her does not make her a good fiction writer either. It means like minded people want to push an agenda and they are also rewarding her for writing fluff pieces for PC Gamer in a breach of ethics where she was friends with Bioware devs.. It does not mean that is the landscape of the world though or that these people represent the majority.
In before I get accused of being a misogynist when movies starring women in lead combat roles probably harm little girls more than their previous roles in these types of movies (Leia, Mon Mothma), because women and men are DIFFERENT and you are giving girls an impossible role model to match and reality will crush them when boys grow up to be much stronger physically. By making all women “strong female combat characters” you are in fact making women LESS. You are saying they have no strengths of their own and that they do not matter.
So grats intersectional feminists. You are the biggest misogynists in the world. *slow clap*.
Pretty sure I didn’t say women and men aren’t different, because I don’t believe that. However, as I already said, it is indeed insulting to say women only like the OT because Han is hot. It’s simply not true for many women.
And I don’t read the Mary Sue. I’m not a feminist; I’m a free market capitalist and classical liberal. I read Thomas Sowell, not Jessica Valenti.
Throwing in a few shades of gray doesn’t mean the story isn’t still ultimately good vs. evil. It is. Even if you’re the sort who thinks the empire is the good side.
It’s not “insulting”. You were insulted. There is a difference. The ironic thing is you appear to have been insulted because someone presumed to speak about women as a whole, then you presumed to speak about women as a whole. You can’t possibly know if women liking the new movies had “fuck all” to do with Jyn being female, unless you ask them.
And the thing is: the makers of the film certainly believe having the hero be female is important to attracting female viewers. They won’t shut up about that theory. Maybe take it up with them.
The fact is that the percentage of Star Wars fans who are female is pretty low. Or at least it was, I don’t know the modern balance; and many of the women who liked the original movies said they did so because of the romance and the Han Solo character. The same is true of Indiana Jones (I guess that Harrison Ford is just a suave guy).
Girl geeks do not outnumber guy geeks. Girl geeks in pop culture are coming close to doing so, but that’s a social engineering experiment of questionable value.
Well if you are saying they loved it for being a accurate representation of war? Reality and Star Wars being used in the same sentence is laughable in the first place. You are just calling those women stupid. Also I never said Han was “hot”. I said they liked the CHARACTER of Han and the romance. I am sure some women think Casio McAccent is “hot”. The character sucks though.
Just because you are obsessed with looks and Jyn’s rabbit teeth with petty put downs based on appearance does not mean I am. Stop projecting snowflake.
I don’t have a neck beard and I liked it. So fuck off you fucking arrogant know it all.
Maybe in the Special Edition they replace Grand Moff with The Hoff.
Take notes Disney, this is how it’s done!
Kids eat paste. Kids loved Dr. Dolittle where Eddie Murphy farted for 90 minutes. Nobody remembers that movie. Nobody will remember this movie.
The only positive I take from the Star Wars reboots is they are slightly less lazy than the Star Trek reboots. How embarrassing is it that a critically-acclaimed movie was made by having kids do bad impressions of characters written 50 years ago?
OMG and it was almost as cool as when Yoda took out his little lightsaber and went to town!!!!!
Yeah it is pretty insulting to say the reason women liked Star Wars was because of Han and romance. You’re suggesting women can’t appreciate sci-fi/fantasy in it’s own right without a romantic element involved.
Why do you think “hot” only means good looking? Most people understand “hot” to be a combination of looks, charm, style, charisma etc. in other words, what made Han Solo an appealing character.
For those critical of Mike’s desire for the second half to have a more structured Ocean’s 11 style heist narrative, Film Crit Hulk argues convincingly for EXACTLY THE SAME THING:
“To be more specific: How do you turn an obvious heist into something
so unplanned and off-the-cuff (as in everyone’s just going to wing it)
to the point where you neuter your finale? THAT’S NOT HOW HEIST
STRUCTURE WORKS. You absolutely need to create previously established objectives, so you can maximize the dramatic tension of the moment when that moment arrives. To dramatically care, the audience must be able to anticipate one result or the other. If I don’t know what should happen, I can’t fear what might happen.
And it results in a “heist” with all these randomly shouted-out objectives in the middle of an unwieldy, unfocused battle that just wants to echo the last act of Return of the Jedi. Every action beat is desperate for clarity and works overtime to
explain in the moment, but that’s why it fails. Like, there’s no tension in them getting through the shield because there’s established reason it should work. It’s just dumb luck, like almost everything that follows. It feels like they’re literally fucking their way up through this, stabbing for needles in haystacks and finding them. This is seriously unforgivable for this movie. Because a heist is constructed around quiet build-up and the careful set-up of critical moments. There’s a reason every heist film has a careful, visual “going over the plan” sequence and it’s all about setting up dramatic expectations.
There has to be a plan in order for things to go wrong. It’s freaking everything in these kinds of movies.
Nice try bud. BTW what do you have now 50 posts in this thread attacking this review? She was also offended and insulted (LOL) by the idea that she THOUGHT I meant Han was hot. Meanwhile she attacked Jyn’s actress on appearance making her a huge hypocrite.
Women do not have fantasies and daydreams about taking out bank robbers in hand to hand combat and being Luke etc. Men and women are different. You would know this is you stopped white knighting them (they lose all respect for you as a man when you do this) and actually got to know one.
Female superheroes were about skimpy outfits for teenage boys. Look at any cover of those comics when they debuted if you doubt it.
No, he’s saying women _don’t_ generally appreciate sci-fi fantasy in its own right without a romantic element involved. It’s deductive, not inductive.
Your mom’s vagina.
” BTW what do you have now 50 posts in this thread attacking this review?”
I don’t know. Why do you have 50 posts (most VERY long) attacking the the new Star Wars movie in this thread? Maybe we’re both bored?
As far as I could tell she was insulted by your assertion that the reason women liked the movie was because of Han and romance. She pointed out that was a little insulting because women don’t necessarily need romance to enjoy a good movie. The reason I think this is what she meant is because that’s what she said. I can tell you feel very strongly that you are right about this movie and so someone criticizing your opinion, and suggesting maybe you are being a little offensive, is getting under you skin and affecting your reading comprehension.
Gr8 b8 m8. I r8 8/8.
1. I don’t. 2. You have attacked most negative views about this movie on this page. 3. You smell of astroturfing.
Yeah I think you are right. You can really see it in the last wheel of the worst, they’re just kind of over it. They gave SUCH a pass to TFA which I thought they were going to absolutely shred, and deservedly, but now it almost feels like they’re trolling. Gone are the thoughtful break downs of plot and characterization.
Reality? Where did I say it was realistic? I said it was an adventure/war tale.
Has was hot.
Felicity Jones has rabbit teeth. That’s just a fact, sir. It was distracting during when she was talking during close-ups.
I’m a woman. I liked Rogue One. I know several other women who liked it as well. It didn’t need a romance for me, or for those women to enjoy it. It’s that simple.
You seem really angry.
If you read Angela’s post, unlike Bruce, who said the reason “women” loved the trilogy was X, she never presumed to speak for all women. She said women CAN love the trilogy because of Y. That presumes nothing about what appeals to ALL women. She also said plenty of women didn’t care about the gender of the protagonist in Rogue 1. Pay attention to that word “plenty.” It’s important because it’s a very different word than “all.”
So you found her teeth distracting but not the CGI? You also complained the characters sucked but it is good because it has “adventure/war”?
Compelling argument for this film. “Characters suck, protagonist has rabbit teeth but is a war film with sacrifice that you do not care about because the characters suck.”
That pretty much sums up what you have posted on this forum. Oh and anyone that disagrees is angry and shallow even though you are the one that attacked the physical appearance of the female lead repeatedly. Oh and I am also a misogynist and offensive towards women because I somehow insulted them for saying they liked the character of Han and the romance in the first trilogy, even though I never said they liked Anakin and the romance he had with Padme because it was laughable.
Anyways…thanks for the laughs. Enough time wasted on people who are easily offended or selling something. Disney marketing is disgusting but the people who buy it are even worse.
Thanks for explaining to me that women and men are different. I wasn’t aware different things tend to appeal to them differently. I was wondering how long it would take you to throw that term white knighting at me. I’m disagreeing with you and agreeing with her and it has nothing to do with either of your genders. Believe it or not, a man can agree with woman without an agenda to fuck her.
i understand what he’s saying, and I disagree. Women_don’t_generally appreciate Star Wars. It can’t be assumed the ones that do are only around for Han and romance. That’s a pretty minor thing to sit through 6-7 hours of lazer swords, aliens and spaceships for.
I said that was the BIG draw. They are also interested in the character relationships, the family dynamic. Women are geniuses when it comes to emotion, empathy etc. Women can smell BS from a mile away in a conversation where men are not near as good at it and we darn near lie/exaggerate as a second language. They blow us away in that regard. While we got the father son thing, we were more into the fighting, the hero concept and for the “nerds” the pseudo science. The original Star Wars had mass appeal because as Lucas said “Star Wars Is a Soap Opera About Family Problems.” I mean you can claim a ton of men watch soap operas and the hallmark channel but you are just full of it at that point. Now if those soap operas had hero fantasy figures and space battles and sword fights…
I agree with a lot of what you said, and I think your post really does get to the heart of the matter of what is wrong with R1 and TFA. I’m going to get slaughtered for this, but here goes:
Han Solo was a funny, fearless, self-serving, misogynistic, womanizing, over-confident, talented pilot. Men secretly want to be this kind of guy and women secretly want to fuck this kind of guy. Are there exceptions? Of course there are. There are always exceptions to every rule. But the exceptions prove the rule, they don’t disprove it. If 98 out of 100 women want to fuck Han Solo, and only 2, who are probably lesbians, want to be Hans Solo, then the two exceptions don’t disprove the overall generalization. It actually affirms it.
In other words, this kind of hyper-masculinity is attractive to both men and women, but for different reasons. Harrison Ford was brilliant at playing this kind of character. So was Clint Eastwood. It’s what made them famous. The character of James Bond is loved for exactly the same reason. The problem is that Disney does not want to show a strong man who exudes strong masculine traits. Instead, they’re trying to get the women to do this; and it just doesn’t work.
Women like to work with people and men like to work with objects. This is why almost all Handymen are…well…men. This is what made the character of Rey so awkward. Her scavenging around for parts and her ability to fix the Millennium Falcon (more effectively than Han Solo) was completely out-of-place for a female character.
This is also why most female superhero movies (Elektra, Cat Woman) bomb and why almost all superheros are men. The truth is that men love the idea of saving women and women love the idea of being saved by a man. When you try to reverse this obvious, age-old fact, you end up producing something that feels awkward and annoying to both genders.
Leia was a strong women – but not because she was pretending to be a man. She stood up to Han Solo. She pointed out his character flaws and laughed at his immaturities. Ultimately, she ended making him a better, less selfish person. She turned this ruffian pilot into a great rebel leader. This is what strong women do to the men in their life, and this is what made their relationship feel real.
Pretty much. Kathleen Kennedy intersectional feminist agenda driven fantasies that actually demean women by saying women have nothing of value to offer except a cheap imitation of masculinity that they can never match and that will always leave them feeling inferior. These new films are probably harming girls development.
What are good role models for women Captain Janeway. Deanna Troi, Leia. Rey is not as bad as others because “space magic” but it still will fail. People are already rejecting this social conditioning and sick of this garbage.
I never got around to talking about the CGI. When I mentioned her teeth, I was talking about the new actors, so the CGI didn’t pertain. Tarkin’s mouth was also distracting, though, now that you bring it up.
I have no idea if you’re a misogynist.
I’m not selling anything here, but I do run my own business and have 3 shops on Etsy if you’re in the market for some kitschy vintage stuff.
I think part of the problem is american cinemas, watch it in the UK where everyone shuts up doesn’t clap because we realise none of the cast or crew are there to appreciate it, and you may have a better time.
Think I would hate every movie if everyone in the cinema did half things you’re talking about
Ok I will. Nice talking to you and thanks for explaining to us all what women like and don’t like. As someone whose never met a real-life woman, I’ve learned a ton. But I’m sure women themselves especially appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to explain to them what they like and don’t like. Anyway you’re right this conversation is now boring. Besides I have to go shine my virtual armor, mount my white stallion and save some other fair damsel from the many villains that roam the internet.
That didn’t bother me. Mostly because I saw small chemistry between the leads both with Rey and with Poe (there is a lot of fan art). The movie takes place over 4 days, I find it unrealistic when people have strong feelings for one another in such a short window so the lack of a kiss didn’t bug me. They’re friends. That’s great.
Captain Janeway… lol
And since I’ve seen it compared to The Dirty Dozen, that movie includes a beautifully simple “going over the plan” sequence.
Exactly – and the fact that the plan is so clearly stated in that movie ratchets up the tension for me as I keep wondering (even on repeat viewings) whether the character flaws of certain squad members will result in a botched objective.
You also spend most of the movie getting to know the characters as individuals and see them come together as a unit. I won’t watch this until it hits Netflix in however many months, but based on what I’ve seen and read about it, I don’t get the impression it spends much time on any of that.
Under any other circumstances RLM would praise a film for taking such a bold risk as killing off their heroes rather than the typical ‘heist’ story structure which we can see from a mile away. So I applaud the Director for such a unexpected twist to the narrative and subverting expectations. Not all Star Wars films have to end on a high note, the best film in the series didn’t (ESB). Granted, the cast wasn’t killed off, but this was supposed to be a side story, and if everything always ended with the heroes surviving, that would be a very obvious and expected ending wouldn’t it? I wonder if you guys are actually wanting to see something new and fresh with risks being taken, or just want to watch the same old formula rehashed again and again. Jay, Mike, Rich, you are all full of contradictions and feel what you like is based on prejudgement before even entering the theater and hypocritical to aversions you’ve made in the past to similar films or in some cases films that push harder on stated, annoying tropes (TFA).
I think the CGI Tarkin was more convincing than the CGI Princess Leia. But i knew i couldn’t be him. Because Peter Cushing died long ago.
That pretty much mirrors my stance. It’s hard for me to articulate why, but I just don’t have a compulsion to go and see this in a cinema. I’ll probably also give it a look on Netflix out of curiosity, but I’m not gonna invest my meager resources (time/money) in a R1 night out.
I assume you meant The Nutty Professor remake, not Dr. Dolittle. Especially The Nutty Professor II: The Klumps.
Just saw the film; was easily the best Star Wars prequel (unless the Ewok films were pre-ROTJ). I’d probably put it about equal to The Force Awakens. It needed more humor that TFA had, but was less a rehash of Star Wars than TFA was, so it equals out I think.
I do wish the robot, whose name I cant remember, was more HK-47. I’m sure it was partially inspired by him, but I’d have preferred to see a more direct HK-47 brought to film, all passive-aggressive comments and lots of ‘kill all humans’ sentiment. Oh well, perhaps we’ll get a KOTOR movie/show sometime in the future, now that Disney is going to turn Star Wars into the MCU 2.0.
Am i the only one that pissed there were no dead bothans. Frankly i found this movie to be boring as hell. Even with a more detailed backstory for the protagonist. I still didn’t give a shit. And while i agree with a lot of criticism about The Force Awakens. I at least wasn’t looking at my watch every five seconds wondering when this hell it was going to end. It at least had some levity. And i already got burned on Gareth Edwards Godzilla. I don’t think the guy can make a movie that dosn’t make me want to go asleep. In term Entertainment Value. Rouge One is the obvious loser.
Also this really should had been a heist/spy movie. Am i suppose to believe that after this grand assault. That the empire wouldn’t wonder, if not know what the hell they were after. Most people who go on a heist. Don’t want the people they are stealing from, to know that you stole anything. You would think Vader would want the Death Star plans to be totally reviewed.
That was the second Death Star where Bothans died, not the first
They destroyed the Death Star plans at the end when they blew up the archipelago base (aside from the set of plans Leia had in her possession).
My question is why the Tantive IV headed to Tatooine in the Outer Rim, and not to Rebel-held territory. Or even straight back to Yavin IV itself, since it must be nearby given how quickly everyone got to the final battle from Yavin.
The Empire was much stronger than the Rebels, the last thing the Rebels want to do is “hold territory” and have the entire fleet drop down on them. If Empire Strikes Back taught us anything is they skip from planet to planet gathering forces and launching attacks. With a Death Star and Darth Vader’s Star Destroyer on their tail, doubt they wanted to lead them directly to Yavin 4
Meth is a helluva drug. Damn, guys.
I agree, not everyone likes grim war movies were everyone dies for a greater cause. I love them. Each to their own.
A.) Yes, most women probably do NOT appreciate Sci-Fi or Fantasy or Action films. But SOME do. Putting female leads in your Sci-Fi film will not turn men away from them. It didn’t do any harm to this movie or Alien/Aliens or even any of those shitty Underworld and Resident Evil movies. Since you will appeal to both men (who, by the way, LIKE seeing women carry guns and so shit other than faint) and women who appreciate seeing a woman do something other than faint, why not do it? It’s money in the bank.
B.) Since when do films have to appeal just to normies? Should Tim Burton pack his shit up and quit making films about social outcasts? Probably not. He still makes money off of them even though most people are NOT social outcasts. So why not continue to appeal to the 20% of women who like Sci-Fi/Fantasy if it doesn’t hurt your profits?
C.) It will damage girls to think they can take on men twice their size? Won’t it damage BOYS for thinking that THEY can take on men twice their size? Because that’s what happens in a lot of FANTASY movies. Smaller men (Harrison Ford) take on GIANTS (big ass Nazi dude in Raiders of the Lost Ark).
I thought it went on a little long, but the part where he force chokes a dude from five feet away and then throws him against the wall was badass.
Yeah, there were never any women that could match a man, except those scientists, astronauts, and so on that did. Hey ladies, like science and stuff? TOO FUCKING BAD, BITCH! You’ll never be Einstein so you shouldn’t even try to do science. Stay at home, raise kids and occasionally let your TradRight husband beat you, because it’s tradition. Ya dig, ladies?
That goes for you too black people. Since you will never produce a black Einstein, never try. Neil Degrasse Tyson, go back to wrasslin’. Your people have a lower IQ on average than whites and Jews, so you should never try to do intellectual things.
Back in the 80’s, Kids were shocked to see Optimus Prime die in Animated movie (with a rocking soundtrack). I bet some of them are still mentally scarred.
Why are you TradRight people under the impression that films should represent NORMAL man/woman relations? Especially Science FICTION and FANTASY movies? Men in movies are OFTEN abnormal in some way, whether it’s comedic (like the character being a total coward, autistic spaz, flamboyantly gay, etc.) or for drama (main character is batshit insane, neurotic, etc.). But films show depictions of women being uncommonly strong in a WAR, where you HAVE TO BE STRONG OR DIE, and you TradRights have a shit fit.
Films do not have to depict normies. In fact, most people don’t WANT films to depict normies. They want drunken idiots, violent lunatics, chronically shy outcasts, etc.
Because her dad told her to go find the old jedi who could help. But i think she DID go back to Yavin first to get the droids.
Are you a communist?
That sounds like communist bullshit to me – this is the free market at work
Just go to any comic-con/fan-con and its pretty clear where the numbers are – nothing succeeds in popculture without the backing of women. No band, movie, book or otherwise. Women can make something a phenomenon, but without them, no dice. I can’t think of any example of a pop culture phenomenon that was generated entirely by men.
Paranoid socialist views like yours ignore the fact that this is just capitalism working its magic. Money talks and women spend it just as well as men, why would anyone not want to market to them, or anyone else for that matter?
SO now you’re not just presuming to know what every woman does, but also what women think about?
Well he apparently has the ability to know all womens’ daydreams so perhaps we should fear and respect him…
“Han Solo was a funny, fearless, self-serving, misogynistic, womanizing, over-confident, talented pilot. ”
Han Solo never demonstrates himself to be misogynistic and/or womanizing. I know those movies backwards and forwards an I can’t think of a single scene where he demonstrates either quality. In ANH he calls her “your holiness” and shit like that but only because he doesn’t like being bossed around. He’s only taking risks for the reward money. In fact he only has one scene where he expresses and interest in any woman, and its obvious he’s just trying to taunt Luke because Luke sees him as competition for Leia’s affections (his sister!).
At the start of ESB we learn cocky Han is convinced she carries a torch for him that she’s denying to herself and obviously he does for her, and through the movie he draws that out of her and wins her over. So unless you can give me examples of his misogyny or womanizing, I think you’re projecting those qualities on to his character.
By RoftJ, Leia and Han are in love and that’s that. He never once chases women around expressing negative opinions about women in general anything.
“She turned this ruffian pilot into a great rebel leader. This is what strong women do to the men in their life, and this is what made their relationship feel real.”
No she didn’t. In The ruffian pilot, who turned his back on the rebellion as they were launching an assault on the Death Star but then turned around and saved Luke and the Rebels, had a change of heart on his own. It had nothing to do with Leia or her “feminine influence on him.” If anyone besides himself was the catalyst for his change of heart, it was Luke who believed in him.
By ESB’s start he already was a great rebel leader. Leia and he had no intimate relationship. Again while we don’t know anything about the chacters’ development between the two movies, if anything’s implied about Han’s motives, it’s that Luke is the one who continues to inspire him to rise above ‘ruffian pilot.’ It’s Luke he again risks his neck for with no offer of reward on Hoth when Luke is in danger.
So basically it looks like you’re making shit up in your head about the Han Solo, Leia and OT, based on your confirmation bias about your ideas of the kind of guy “women secretly want to fuck.”
According to your theory the Alien franchise should have “end[ed] up producing something that feels awkward and annoying to both genders.” Yet somehow especially the first two movies go down as some of the greatest Sci Fi movies ever.
I think he’s a PUA.
I want a Star Wars film from the Storm Trooper’s point of view. A raw recruit joined up whose parent were killed during a rebel attack when he was a child and believes the Rebellion are the evil ones. The Germans didn’t believe Hitler was evil or knew the genocide practices that were going on behind the scenes similar to Palpatine’s Order 66 extermination order and anti alien (non Human) sentiments. To that Storm Trooper, the Empire is the shining beacon of Order and Stability in the Galaxy, and the Rebels are little more than terrorists trying to cause Discord and Chaos… by all means Star Wars, get darker. I want something new for god sakes, rather than the rehash story telling of a young youth goes on a journey to become a Jedi, confront an evil nemesis, reform him, Destroy the Empire and save the Republic…. Really don’t want two more movies of the same old shit
No, you’re just incredibly and arrogantly ignorant.
I get the feeling that you guys had a bad theater experience… which is to be expected at an opening or shortly thereafter. Truth be told, this film is in my top three. Rogue 1 is not a typical star wars film. You’re right to compare it to Saving Private Ryan, and that’s what I loved about it. It’s a film about the little guy… the folks just trying to do the right thing, and they don’t always come out on top. They aren’t perfect but they do their best. The sacrifice of the characters spoke to me deeply.
I almost didn’t go to see this movie. I figured it would be another mary sue character like TFA with an appropriately diverse cast and nothing new to say, but I was wrong. I felt commonality with the characters and I was happy that the movie let me fill in the blanks rather than force feed me the narrative.
I hope you guys give it another shot without pre-conceived expectations. I don’t expect you to like the movie the same way i did, but I’m not sure you gave the film a fair shake.
Perhaps you should read more closely: I stated, and it is a fact, that many women when asked why they like Star Wars say they like the romance story, the costumes, Han Solo, or Lando Calrissian.
Ironically, the post she was replying to used exactly the same phrasing. So you either need to be consistent or admit you have no idea what you’re talking about.
I was responding to your comment “No, he’s saying women _don’t_ generally appreciate sci-fi fantasy in its own right without a romantic element involved. It’s deductive, not inductive.”
I can read that as closely as possible all day, and it will never be the same as “many women when asked why they like Star Wars say they like the romance story, the costumes, Han Solo, or Lando Calrissian.”
In any case though. Baring that the word “many” is a very vague. subjective term that can sort of mean anything above the number 1, I think that’s not a fact and it’s something you think should be true and so it has become a fact for you in your mind. But I’m certainly amenable to links to surveys or other evidence that demonstrates what ‘many’ women who like Star Wars, like about it.
No it didn’t. The phrasing of the post she was replying to:
“Jyn was just to get women in the door, when Disney has no idea what women loved about the first trilogy.”
No words like “some,” or “plenty” or anything to qualify the term “women.” I am consistent. You’re the one having trouble with that.
So you fucktards gonna get that old bastard Mr Plinkett out of retirement to let loose on this?
Can you point me to that study? The one where women who like Star Wars state those are the reasons they like it? I just haven’t ever heard of that study and it contradicts my own personal experiences so I’m very interested.
… and her reply used the phrases “women don’t” and “women aren’t”, without “some”, “plenty” or anything to qualify the term “women”.
So’s your mom.
Yes but this is STAAR WAAARS.
With Darth fucking Vader and lasers n’ badarse Asians…
Times have changed I suppose.
Are you fucking nuts? Her responses:
“Women CAN love epic adventure/war tales of good vs. evil, too…”
“PLENTY of women liked this movie and it had fuck all to do with Jyn being female.”
They are right there for you to read. Scroll up.
Do you actually like the ewok films more than RO?
What? Where did I use “women don’t” or “women’t aren’t” in my response to Bruce without, or even with for that matter, a qualifier?
Thank you. This conversation is getting a bit surreal.
Thank you for this informative and well written response.
I wish it was established more clearly that he was afraid of the hologram device being nerfarious.
Put me in the camp that normally loves HITB reviews, but feels they missed the mark here. Sounds like they were in a theatre with a bunch of hardcore “fuck yeah!” fan boys who were clapping at every cameo. If that happened at my screening, I probably would have come away being annoyed with the movie too.
But the other problem with this review is it’s inconsistency with previous RLM reviews. As you mention, there’s the glowing TFA review, but you also have the guys attacking cameos, references and fan service – something Mike praised in the Star Trek: Beyond review. Meanwhile, Jay bemoans “boring” scenes of talking, when previously he’s ridiculed people for saying slower paced, talky films are boring.
I agree the characters could have been better developed and had a bit more energy or charisma, but for me the last hour of the film was so well executed it made up for it. Until recently, James Bond didn’t have a back story or any character development either, but that doesn’t make the Bond films bad movies.
Far from “not being a Star Wars movie”, this felt far more like Star Wars than anything since ROTJ, for my money (which Disney now has).
Don’t be mad, you’ll get it one day.
Right, spend a thousand to see a movie…. well maybe in Bradford.
I don’t know that it surpasses him chopping off his own son’s hand in Empire, or his creepy “Sis-ter!” moment in Jedi, but it achieved making him a genuinely scary character again – particularly since the last time we saw him (“Nooooooo!”) he became a bit of a joke.
The Empire was on their tail at the end of the movie, presumably they jumped to wherever they jumped to, empire showed up, they jumped again and so on, until they ended up in the outer rim territories and Vadar boarded Leias vessel.
Star Wars is as popular with women I know as it is with men. In the beginning it probably was more popular with boys than girls but we’re not at the beginning anymore.
I think there are points to be made about the way roles are handled today (there seems to be a sense that the male roles of the past are the important ones instead of a more general reappraisal of what’s interesting) but they’re sure as hell not going to be made by Bruce or Frank Lovejoy.
For myself (being male), I welcome more female action heros. And partly for selfish reasons – it makes the ‘women and children’ angle harder to push. The only problem is when there’s not a balanced portrayal e.g. misandrist rubbish like the new Ghostbusters, where men are there to be insulted and attacked – neither the heros nor worthy of compassion. That wasn’t the case with TFA (although even there there was a comedic physical threat to Finn which I doubt they’re have dared with Rey) and I don’t think it’s the case with this film.
Unfortunately films like Ghostbusters cause harm to what’s meant to be their cause – people conflate them with films like the Star Wars ones and so they all become the object of the same resentment.
Why the fuck is everyone here arguing about who watches more Star Wars? It’s really getting embarrassing guys. Anyone can like Star Wars, the ratio is fucking moot at this point, it has been for ages.
Better yet, bring Hoff in as a Cantina mercenary who drifts from bar to bar, being paid to clean up shitty establishments in delightfully ultraviolent ways. It can be a whole side film!
While I totally agree that TFA is very familiar, it IS exactly what the series needed to get everyone back in cinemas. It’s true that they’ve effectively retold the original story but it’s just like a new company taking over Coca Cola after they changed the formula to New Coke. It’s comforting regardless of the familiarity.
I’d also say that there’s genuine rapport and emotional weight to the characters in TFA. Rey and Fin along with Han add a huge dollop of charm and charisma which Rogue One sadly lacked.
Rogue One feels rushed and lacks a character that we can truly connect with. It’s not a terrible film by any stretch but with another six months, it could’ve been fantastic.
The real ‘dirty secret’ is that no film you watch aged 30 is going to be able to make you feel the same way as when you watched A New Hope or Empire Strikes Back aged 12, as your first sci-fi films. Yes, the cameo by “You just watch yourself” guy was superfluous, and “Second Chinaman” with his mini-gun seemed excessive, and the background music was passable rather than epic, but overall when I was watching Rogue One I was thinking “When my son is 12, after he’s seen the original trilogy, he’s going to love this add-on”. And crucially, unlike the prequels, Rogue One doesn’t in any way diminish the original trilogy with hokey nonsensical contradictory back-stories (Vader building C3PO, R2-D2 rocket boots, ‘good friend’ Anakin) – that even get shoved into the original trilogy DVDs so you can no longer watch the Return of the Jedi without CGI gungans and Hayden Christensen inserted in, and original Boba Fett’s voice dubbed over with Jango’s for no reason.
The other thing is – the action hero stuff in movies is not realistic for men either, we’ve just seen it so many times that it seems like something men are capable of doing.
Feminism is not against men, it’s against patriarchy, and patriarchy hurts men just as much as women for setting unrealistic and unhealthy expectations of what men can and can’t be.
For my own part, I like Star Wars, but I’m not some superfan who needs to consume every product put out under the brand. A story about how they got the plans to the Death Star holds little interest for me. It seems like the plot of one of those bad, old expanded universe novels.
Mike, Jay, and Rich–I like you guys, I respect you guys, but you miss the point of this movie.
Holy crap, I’ve been a fan of RLM for years, and I can’t believe how badly you guys missed on this one. Even though you make good points (she was kinda boring) it’s almost like you HAVE to bitch about everything. Meh. On this one, you guys got it wrong.
Check out Star Wars Despecialized
I don’t want to sound mean, but… so what? Does everyone’s tastes need the approval of three guys on the internet? The amount of times Jay, Mike and Rich have venomously sh*t on stuff I love is too numerous to count. Doesn’t make me like what I like any less than I do.
They also have a track record for vindictive humor and routinely make jokes at the expense of 9/11 and AIDS. I’d say this isn’t too egregious, personally.
I would rather run down a flight of stairs with my thump in my ass that to watch that review again!
Does he drive a talking spaceship?
Bothans died for the 2nd Death Star plans dumbass!
Stahp it! All of you!
I didn’t hate the scene itself. It was well done.
But I hated the scene in context and it greatly soured the movie for me.
I hated Vader having to be in this movie, but I also liked that part.
Is self loathing replacing alcoholism in half in the bag?
I don’t feel one way or the other about it becoming darker (please not gritty) but I’d love a film from a Storm Trooper’s point of view. TFA’s shot of the Storm Trooper’s bloody smear across Finn’s visor was excellent but we quickly went back to Storm Troopers being blown away like Charles Bronson blew away street trash. Which was a little disappointing, even though I enjoyed the film a lot.
I partially agree with Rich on his “universe isn’t that big” theory.
That first scene with Vader, while a fine scene in its own right, felt totally out of place to me in what was supposed to be a gritty, bitter war film.
I was sitting in the theater and thinking “He looks kind of goofy in this movie. You know, I don’t mind the tone for this movie, but they needed to go all the way with it. It’d be a lot better if they took all the Star Warsy stuff out of it.”
And then I realized what I’d just said to myself and felt both smart and stupid at the same time.
You can love things but please remember they will never love you back.
But, but, the Metacritic average! Save Disney! Save the dream!
It would be funny if they did another review of Rogue One that was glowing to see just as many people pissed off as the first review? It’s a movie for fucks sake! Of the three which is most likely a pedophile?
I just asked Santa for a Christmas BotW. Hoping for a miracle!
Mike already admitted tendencies…. pressing face against glass, going to children’s birthday parties uninvited.
Rogue One also has humor as well.
For me, starting with Empire, the Star Wars films target demographic seemed to drop 5 years in age with each new release. Rogue One seemed a to fit the tone of the ’77 film better.
As for seeing Star wars too much, I’ve probably seen the first one five times. ESB and RotJ twice maybe, and never saw the prequels.
Like a brand-new Shark vacuum.
couldnt agree more…I am 46 and this is litarelly the first time since “empire” I enjoyed StarWars again. TFA was kinda embarrasing, but this catches (mostly) what especially “empire” was about.
much, MUCH better than the over-the-top-hyped TFA.
You’re one of those Frank Mackey guys right? The term “neck-beard” was actually coined to define your type.
Completely off topic as far as Star Wras is concerned, but I’ve recently watched two great BotW-type movies. First was The Hidden, a noir sci-fi thriller about parasitic aliens and not to be confused the Duffer Brothers film of the same name. It stars Kyle MacLachlan and Michael Nouri. Second was Only the Strong where a new teacher at a gang-ridden south Florida high school earns his students respect with Capoeira! They end up going toe to toe with the evil drug gang with Capoeira! Capoeira! Check them out.
Seriously, I’ve always wanted a COPS-style show with Storm Troopers trying to play peacekeeper in some crappy rundown Star Wars planet. Basically TROOPS, but an actual show.
The first one was a fine adventure/quest film in its own right, and I rather liked it as a kid. The second one had a pretty dark beginning and the whole thing was more a fairy-tale. Not as good, but still better than a lot of kids films. Not much of a Star Wars film, of course.
And no, I’d put RO well above them both.
The Hidden is a fun watch, very Trancers-esque. A good B-movie for sure.
Also off-topic, but if the RLM guys are looking for ideas for future BOTW themes, I’d love to see a Doug McClure-athon sometime.
Followed by a Tane McClure-athon. Er, maybe not.
There is no patriarchy in the west anymore. There is no systematic oppression of women. There are certainly old employers who won’t hire a woman because they are set in their ways, just like there are employers who won’t hire gays, blacks or Jews, but they are dying breed. Women are a small part of the STEM fields because most women are not really all that interested in that sort of thing. Notice how I said MOST, not ALL like that lunatic above. There are tons of examples of women scientists, but they are the exception, not the rule. Of course, male scientists are the exception to, but you know what I mean. There are differences between men and women, generally, but there are also genius exceptions born all the time, who would be silenced by Traditionalist fascists.
Why do you people feel that movies should be about TRADITIONAL women? Traditional women are fucking housewives. Is that what you want to see in movies again? Housewives that faint under stress? Compelling cinema, that.
Yes, MOST women are not natural leaders or naturally handy with machines. But SOME are. People make movies about Amelia Earhart not fucking Bitchy McHousewife. Exceptions are MORE INTERESTING than the rule.
Strong leaders are the exception among men too. Most men are the guy that’s out in the field taking orders, not General Douglas MacArthur or General George S. Patton. Those men are EXCEPTIONAL. Most people, regardless of sex, are sheep. That’s why monarchies and dictatorships have existed for so long.
Rey wasn’t ‘awkward’ because she could fix things and wasn’t fainting and screaming like a lil’ bitch. She was awkward because she knew how to do things without having to learn how first.
I want to commend you on starting a real conversation about this movie. RLM comments are usually the low-IQ, the lowest common denominator kind, that revolve around memes. So, thank you for anyone here actually discussing a movie for a change.
What a lovely comment. Thank you.
The best part was I got to hear from some people who liked it, and had very interesting reasons for feeling how they do, and they were articulated without insult or condescension.
It’s a nice feeling!
I’ve never felt like so much of an alien as I have when reading Rogue One reviews. I went into this movie fairly open-minded and I don’t consider myself very prone to hyperbole, but this was easily the worst movie I’ve seen this year. There were like 5 different points in this movie where I wanted to punch it right in the face.
I’m a little shocked that someone who shredded TPM didn’t hate this movie as much as I did. The writing in this was SOOOO bad that at one point I found myself wondering, “Did George Lucas actually write this?”
You guys were way too generous in this review. I think if you went back to it with the same critical lens you used for the Prequels, you would find that LITERALLY nothing works in this movie. It exhibited almost all of the same problems:
*Overuse/inappropriate use of CG
*Terrible Characters (Try to describe one without mentioning their job or what they look like)
*Reliance on Nostalgia/References
*Awkward lowest-common-denominator jokes designed to make mongoloids laugh
*Protagonist who has no motivation – Please explain to me why Jin Urso did ANYTHING in this movie beyond “Because the script said so.” or “Because Dad.”
*Un-earned character moments.
*Expanding on things that don’t need expanding on.
*A camera. B camera. Shot reverse shot. The scene with Darth Vader and Lt. Bad Guy was literally shot as though Lucas directed it.
In fact, I’m going to go out on a huge limb here and say that TPM is BETTER than this shitpile of a film. Here’s 3 things TPM did better:
*Took its time. Had scenes were things were slowed down and attempted to develop its terrible characters.
*One terrible scene directly led into another.
*Had new and original (and terrible) ideas.
I have so much rage I don’t know what to do with it.
Add terrible plot to your list. Nothing in this film made sense. First, they sneak through the planetary shield in the stolen transport ship, and land undetected. They steal imperial uniforms and infiltrate the main base, again without issue. OK, so now they’re in and they can just stroll over to the room with the files, right? Nope, because they instead choose to completely blow their cover with a full-scale attack on the base. Why? They were already in and no one noticed! Plus, they don’t even have a plan! At least they had a plan in TPM!
Then, after the giant, unnecessary space battle, the only rebel ship left is the “command ship.” An imperial officer mentions that it is disabled, and also that it has just received a transmission from the surface base. So they know the plans are on the rebel ship. So why not blow it up? The imperials had just used the death star to blow up the surface base, so why not just blow up the disabled capital ship too? Why take a risk when they have already made it clear that they are willing to do anything to prevent the plans from falling into rebel hands? But no, Vader says, “prepare a boarding party.” What the hell? Why? WHY DID YOU SAY THAT? YOU JUST BLEW UP YOUR OWN BASE TO PROTECT YOUR PLANS, AND NOW THE PLANS ARE RIGHT IN FRONT OF YOU IN A REBEL SHIP. WHAT ARE YOU WAITING FOR? YOU HATE THE REBELS! BLOW IT UP! SHOOT IT WITH LASERS!
But no. He has to go to the ship himself so he can swing his lightsaber around for the fans. Whoops, there goes the blockade runner, which was hiding in the hangar of the capital ship the whole time! Whoops, there goes the plans! FUCK this movie.
Some of the violence in the film felt WAY out of place for a Star Wars movie. The part where the machine-gun guy executes the wounded stormtrooper on the ground was ridiculous. I could see knocking the trooper out with the end of his gun or punching him out or something, but a full-on head-shot execution? What were they thinking?
He’s one of those “Return of Kings” guys. The Tom Cruise/Frank Mackey character from Magnolia was based on clowns like this. They’re maniacal into “traditional” gender roles.
What I said above about neckbeards was true. Just as the terms “hipster” and “yuppie” have lost meaning from overuse, so has the term “neckbeard,” which was coined to describe the “Male Empowerment” movement.
Typically overweight, middle-aged virginal basement dwelling fantasists with poor personal hygiene. They’re socially inept, and their lack of any sexual success or experience has turned them into raging misogynists. The term “white-knighting” was the give away.
They’re creepy as fuck.
An interesting discovery I have made is that the usual frequenters and commenters of these reviews are usually the ones who agree with Rich, Mike, or Jay and attest that Rogue One is the worst movie ever made since Waterworld. This could be one of several reasons, 1) They’ve watched RLM so much they’ve genuinely started being influenced into liking and hating the same things RLM likes. 2) They genuinely developed the contrarian attitudes of Mike, Jay, and Rich from excessive watching to where they forgot what good story-telling actually is. 3) They are diehard fans who would, if asked, have an orgy with Mike, Rich, and Jay and would agree with them regardless on any subject
“Traditional” gender roles.”, Yeah they are called XX and XY. It is called biology.
Empire commentary track?
Combat role not equal to what you argued for. I gave the example of a Starfleet captain with Janeway. Nice try going from calling me a bigot to a racist btw. This is why no one respect you guys and gals. Misogyny, racism, bigot is all you can say.
“But they need not be ENFORCED at the DETRIMENT of society.” Most idiotic thing I have ever heard. If you are bleeding out and needed to be dragged in full military kit to safety a woman can’t do it. You need a man to do that. That is why special forces have standards. If you lower those standards you put men’s life at risk unnecessarily for politics.
Gender is not a social construct. XX and XY are concrete fact.
Also Einstein couldn’t pass simple college entrance exams and married his own cousin. More of a Nikola Tesla guy. Someone that actually invented one thing in his entire lifetime instead of laughable theory that is falling apart.
Hi good point about the characters just being normal. No Jedi super powers or Mary Sues. It showed the high cost of war. No one was getting medals at the end of this.
There may be a bit of that. On the other hand, I use RLM as one of many sources of film criticism and I find they usually manage to make substantive points. Whether they are consistent with their rules movie to movie doesn’t really bother me as the chaps themselves explicitly stated that movie making isn’t a formula or an exact science – hence a filmmaking approach or technique that may work gangbusters in one film can fall flat in another based on a change in conditions or circumstances.
It seems to me that people who seem rather heavily invested in defending R1 are using these contradictions to try and invalidate the RLM chap’s opinion on the movie, merely because it does not align with their own. But I could be hopelessly wrong about that, and probably am.
A.) I said they need not been ENFORCED. The opposite shouldn’t be enforced EITHER for the sake of ‘political correctness’. Also, there are combat roles other than infantry. Female snipers, for example. Ever hear of this group called the Red Army? What about the VietCong? The Contras in Nicaragua? Pretty effective use of women. Yes, women cannot carry a fully grown man. That’s why, like the above mentioned armies, you create female divisions. Also, women are indeed less likely to join the armed forces, thus for every one female in a division, there will be many more men.
B.) Rogue One is a depiction of a universe where a MASSIVE empire, with enough people to fill multiple moon-sized space stations, has to be taken down. In that kind of scenario, EVERY recruit is valuable. This is comparable to what the Soviet Red Army faced in WWII. The Soviets used thousands of women because they had to. Even if all those women did were fling themselves into Nazi gunfire so the person behind them could shoot the bastard when he ran out of ammo.
C.) Not a fan of Jews are we? Too bad. Jews on average have a 110 – 112 IQ. MUCH higher than the standard 98 – 99 non-Jewish Caucasian IQ. Jews have dominated the sciences ever since the early 20th century. Inconvenient fact, that one. Perhaps Jews are the ubermensch and Aryan whites are inferior?
I’m not sure I follow your line of reasoning.
I saw Rogue One before coming to RLM because I didn’t want the movie to be spoiled. Foolishly, I thought that I would enjoy the film. Consequently, I hated this movie before ever watching this review, so how could my opinion of the movie be biased towards what RLM thought before knowing what they thought of the movie?
And secondly, are you implying that Rogue One had good storytelling? If so, I’m curious as to just how emotionally moved you were when her father died. People in my theater were laughing. Laughing.
+2 Bonus points if you can tell me the name of another character in the movie besides Jin Urso, her father, K, or someone who isn’t from the OT.
Thirdly, as someone who frequents this site, I have to completely disagree with your whole thesis that many people on this site blindly agree with the RLM crew. We could fill up a book with our disagreements on the Marvel films alone.
i made the mistake of watching this review before going to see ‘rogue one’ tonight–not because the boys spoiled the movie for me, plot-wise, but because, during every action scene, all i could see/hear was rich’s ‘AT-STs’ chant. i chuckled softly to myself as the rebels and the empire pew-pewed at each other, rich’s beautiful song filling my ears and enveloping my mind.
Is anyone else confused as to whether or not the prequel movies are still canon? In R1 all the storm troopers sound like the Boba Fett clones and Jimmy Smitts says something about needing to go skype call Obi Wan (Kill me, please) because he used to suck his cock during the clone wars. But then Finn is black.
Also, I’d like to congratulate the Empire for building the most ineffective army in the history of military enforcement. Their key battle strategy seems to be “jog into a room en masse with guns pointed at the ground while those at the back do not react to the deaths of those in front.” No wonder they fucking lost this war.
I liked Waterworld. The Postman, now there was a steaming pile of excrement of a film.
also, i immediately thought of the ‘TOP TEN THINGS YOU DIDN’T KNOW ABOUT DARTH VADER’ while he was in the glowing blue tube. i was glad i could see the scars of his failed hair implants, but i didn’t see a tube of REPMED VITAPASTE anywhere, sadly.
So if I may bitch one third and final time. Let’s talk about how terrible the central plot of the movie is. Jin Urso’s dad releases plans about the Death Star 2 days before it gets finished instead of 15 years ago. For 20 years he pretended to be loyal to the Empire just so he could design in a fatal flaw to the greatest WMD ever created instead of killing himself. The movie’s brilliant logic for this is “They would’ve built it without me.” Now, I know he’s like a brilliant scientist man, but even a retard could see that the Empire NEEDS you. And also, after your doomsday weapon gets built, now they have all the research needed to build another one with or without you. Which is what they do. Twelve more fucking times.
America made a doomsday weapon once too, it was called the Atom Bomb. If Albert Einstein and J. Oppenheimer both died in a car crash, that weapon never gets built. Hey asshole, if you wanted to save the galaxy from tyranny, you should’ve just blown your fucking brains out.
More likely the Germans or Japanese would’ve eventually built the bomb themselves. Or we’d have gone forward with the Bat-Bomb as an alternative. Or some other doomsday device, like bioweapons.
I think there was a line in Le Chiffre’s hologram where he says he worked to slow down progress on the Death Star but eventually realized it was moving forward anyway, so shifted strategy to building in a flaw. Granted, it realistically would’ve been easier to just engineer a few thousand other potential weak points, that would make the whole thing blow the first time they tested it. Like using too thin a piece of wire somewhere, or hiding a computer virus in the DS databanks. But whatever.
Really, given the destructive potential of a common Star Destroyer, I never really saw the point of the DS in the first place. Any one of the thousands of Star Destroyers could glass a continent with a single volley, so who needs to bother with blowing up entire planets? It’s like inventing the A-Bomb in a world where common soldiers carry MOABs in their back pocket.
Well actually, Rogue One did attempt to unnecessarily connect things together and in the process ruined them. I forget the exact line, but Jimmy Smits makes a comment about needing to contact his old friend to get things in motion. He served him well in the clone wars.
So apparently Obi Wan and Luke didn’t just accidentally get swept into a whirlwind adventure, but the Rebel Alliance had planned it all along! Are you getting “Palaptine’s behind it all” vibes yet? Do I need to elaborate on how dumb this is?
Well as we saw in one of the most amazing displays of ineptitude ever captured on film, even tiny baby cargo ships are strong enough to force an entire star destroyer into another star destroyer, effectively destroying them both and everything nearby.
To be fair, the SD they pushed was dead thanks to the Ion blasts, and that whole sequence was clearly just a homage/replay of the Hoth battle where the two star destroyers crash into each other, albeit much more destructive ultimately. I’d chalk that whole thing up to nostalgia/references.
I get the impression that the Prequels are in semi-cannon territory; if it serves the writers/Disney, they’ll reference something from the Prequels, but otherwise they didn’t happen. For example, I doubt we’ll see a Gungan again or pod-racing, but we’ll probably hear Duel of the Fates in a future film, or at least music based on it. At this point, unless it is specifically mentioned, it’s in probably-didn’t-happen territory, just like the books.
Also, remember these same storm troopers were defeated by teddy bears, and those were specifically mentioned to be the Emperor’s best troops. Most likely Boba Fett’s father had severe-astigmatism and no one ever dared admit the mistake, since they’d already bred a few million clones by that point.
Maybe it’s like a thing where the genetic material became degraded with each clone generation. By the 500th clone generation they were so malformed they had to just stop making them and started conscripting regular people.
By generation 50 they were probably all banging their heads into things, like that guy in A New Hope.
Though actually, even Jenga Fett bangs his head in Attack of the Inbred Clones, so who knows? Maybe it really is genetic. They should have picked a Jedi to clone, obviously. Maybe that big Penis-headed fellow. I bet he never banged his head into a door.
Ah, maybe on a second viewing they like it more, that can happen.
I ain’t watchin’ it twice.
The prequels set the bar for film-making so low that almost any Star Wars movie looks amazing in comparison. The bearded fanboys who defend the prequels subconsciously know this is true. That’s why they all ejaculate into their popcorn the moment Disney puts out anything. Even a soulless-manufactured-corporate-product like Rogue One is 100X better than the prequels; but so is a pile of shit.
I don’t think RLM is effecting my opinion. If anything is effecting me, it’s my everlasting, burning hatred of the prequels. I mean, the hype surrounding Phantom Menace was unbelievable. The complete incompetency of the film-making was, actually, traumatizing for the hardcore fans. Some of them went into denial and defended these turds; others, like myself, just gave up on the whole idea of new Star Wars movies in general.
Cept it would be a pain in the ass making tens of thousands of helmets to fit clones of him.
“Daisy Ridley is charismatic as hell…” – Jay
dude, what are you smoking?
Maybe he just wants a piece of that action, if ya know what I’m sayin,
“gender combat roles”?
I promise you, I know know a number of woman that could kick your paranoid ass.
Have you ever seen a little tugboat pull huge ship?
Are you real? Sersly, good, well-researched trolling if you’re faking.
I don’t know what kind of woman you hang out with (imaginary?), but I know a bunch that would have no problem carrying me – 5’11” 180 lbs. if they had to.
Aside from being kind of a film nerd, I do go outside on occasion and engage with normals.
“I have so much rage I don’t know what to do with it.”
I’d suggest you use it to stop watching and caring about Star Wars movies. You’re not a fan. I’m tempted to argue with each of you points here, but ultimately I can’t be bothered. You’re a hater. That’s the only reason you’re so interested in this movie.
You’re just a fanboi – incapable of objectivity. I loved TFA and I’m not ashamed to admit it, but Rogue One was a steaming pile of sith. You need to recognize a bad film when you see it. It’s safe to do so. It’s not going to stop them from making 18 million more star wars movies.
Jawsy. I missed you.
That was actually the only fan service scene I enjoyed. I’m a little ashamed of it. But at least something was happening with a character that I cared about.
Before I went to see it I was thinking “God, I hope there isn’t a gratuitous and unnecessary inclusion of Darth Vader.” But once the movie was going I was so fucking bored all I could think was “I hope Darth Vader shows up.”
May the force be with us, cause it sure as hell ain’t with this movie. Well, that’s what they tell me.
I left this movie feeling as though I’d just been forced… if you know what I mean.
Up the ass.
Well after K-2SO steals the base info from another droid he says that there’re heaps of Stoormtroopers between where they are and where they’re going. So many that their chances of getting there undetected are essentially none.
So they use the explosion diversion because that was their plan.
The rest I can’t recall if they’re an issue.
Remembering names is arbitrary and separate to how memorable a character is.
They kill Stormtroopers by the dozens, it is no different.
Sick of impactless made for kids movie genocide.
The clones are gone by the time of TFA.
I was bothered by some of the Stormtroopers’ behavior too, at this point though their ineptitude truly is canon…
But they did plan it all along. In A New Hope, Leia records the message in R2-D2 for Obi Wan (“Years ago, you served my father in the Clone Wars; now he begs you to help him in his struggle”), and then R2 sets out looking for him. Note the phrase “now HE begs you to help”. So it’s already established in A New Hope that Jimmy Smits instigated the request.
I think you’re right. I saw it in a theatre in Britain, a few days after it came out, and there was no fanboy hollering. In fact, the audience only made noise a couple of times: once at the end of the trailer for Fast & Furious 8 when someone in the audience shouted “That looks like sh*t!” and everyone else chuckled; and everyone chuckled again at a couple of K2’s lines. Apart from that the audience was respectfully silent, and left the theatre at the end chattering how they’d enjoyed the movie. Doesn’t sound like a “mis-step” by Disney to me. Seems like a movie that 70% of the audience enjoyed, and 30% may not have got everything they wanted but at least weren’t outraged (like the prequels).
The prequels are still canon, but the Lucasfilm powers-that-be are doing everything possible to avoid referencing them (eg not identifying Mustafar in R1 when they’d identified every other planet thus far).
Prequels bad. Original trilogy good. Things I know!
Yeah, there is an offhand comment made by one of Kylo Ren’s officers/supervisors about “if only you would allow the use of clone armies”, and he quickly dismisses it because he’s a purist about raising actual armies of people.
It was okay until the end when everyone fucking died, and then it was really good.
Yowza! I didn’t care for this movie and was pretty bored by it, but I certainly didn’t hate it either.
How you feel is how you feel, but one thing I’ll say is that shot/reverse shot is super common and I don’t think it automatically makes a scene bad. It’s when it’s the ONLY way you shoot dialogue scenes – as it was in the prequels – that it becomes monotonous. But using it here and there is ok and you see the technique used in great movies all the time.
Mike praises Hayden Christensen’s acting, Jay praises Daisy Ridley’s acting, both say Leonardo DiCaprio is a terrible. They sound like exceptional individuals whenever they try to talk about actors.
Maybe they could use some sort of stretchy plastic material….
I’m watching it again today with my 9 year old cousin, so I’ll see how he likes it.
They cut Jengo’s head off in Attack of the Bad Dialogue prequel. The original trilogy had multiple torture scenes, some just off camera, but still. Star Wars has always had an edge to it; this film is just all edge, without the adventure element to mask it. This is a war movie (that would have probably been better as a heist film).
To be honest I don’t even think they were that hard on it, nor should they have been.
The movie’s a whiff. But it’s nowhere near the worst movie I watched this year. That distinction goes to Bad Moms!
I was just thinking about this recently. They make no effort whatsoever in these latest movies to humanize storm troopers in any way shape or form. Sure, we get Finn… but that’s it. And we don’t really get a good explanation for him, he’s just there? So it doesn’t exactly affect the overall portrayal of Stormtroopers as nazis – which I guess the original trilogy was World War II in space, but it doesn’t have to be THAT black & white. And I think the problem is, they show all these stormtroopers biting it by the hundreds like you said, and this is often to upbeat swelling heroic orchestral music… like I get it – you’re not really supposed to give a shit about Stormtroopers and it’s easier to just make them all “evil” (except Finn) – but I feel like there could be a lot more emotional impact to characters actions in these films.
Funny enough, Leonardo DiCaprio’s best acting performance was when he played an exceptional individual. Apart from that he’s in the same league with Jared Leto trying desperately to be taken seriously. Eating twelve more of those raw livers will get them there, no doubt.
I didn’t even know it was a common thing that everyone (white people) thought Leonardo “deserved his props finally” until Mike and Jay mentioned it in their oscars review. Like they often do, they foreshadowed what my facebook news feed looked like for the next couple days. “YEAH WAY TO GO LEO” is what was plastered everywhere – I didn’t even know anyone I knew cared about acting performances, but the second he was nominated everyone I ever met acted like their uncle just won a nobel peace prize or some shit. It was a very odd thing, like everyone acted like they’d been waiting for years for him to get his props.
Luke comes home to find the charred, still smoking, corpses of aunt and uncle. Still looks pretty grisly.
Yet each movie they put out had multiple references to the prequels. They aren’t avoiding anything.
1) How do I enlarge Jaw’s picture so that it’s full screen
2) How do I zoom in on specific part of it
This is urgent.
I think Jango is Leo’s best performance by far. At first his popularity was completely based on the twlight-tweeny-heartthrob phenomenon. But he’s tried hard to improve his acting, and it showed in Jango. Respect.
Millions of nerds lost their virginity at the hands of corporate faggots, and it wasn’t consensual.
Watch What’s Eating Gilbert Grape, Leo portraits a mentally disabled boy down to perfection, from facial expressions, temper tantrums to hand gestures, and got a well-deserved Oscar nom for it (and won several other awards). Django is far from his best performance.
Pull? Yes. Push a huge cruise ship straight through another huge cruise ship, even if both ships were dead and just floated about? Impossible.
I’ve heard of it but I’ve never seen it. I think there was another movie in the 90s called “The Basketball Diaries”(?) where he put in a fairly decent performance.
The fact space doesn’t have gravity and the star destroyer was essentially dead in space, any sort of momentum would have moved an object even of that size
Oh, I’m sorry I looked up Return of Kings. Scrolling through the website, I see a few reasonable headlines, then several embarrassing ones about “game” for picking up “hot chicks”. I don’t know, maybe it works and the guys who read Return of Kings are all walking around with 3 scantily-clad women on each arm, like the Hugh Hefners they seem to aspire to be. Seems unlikely, though.
In my experience, male appeal to women is innate. You either have it or you don’t; it can’t be taught on a website.
That site also uses “cuck” seriously. And has an article titled “The 3 Purposes of Women”, which begins: “When it comes to women, nature bestowed only three roles upon them: reproductive sex, child rearing, and homemaking. A woman who engages in behaviors outside of those three roles is going against her biology and will experience suffering as a result.” I’d like to think the entire site is a parody, but I don’t think it is. It *is* laughable though.
To make this RLM relevant, Mike has innate appeal to the ladies. It can’t be helped, he’s just got it. BUT HE’S SO WRONG ABOUT ROGUE ONE.
Charlize Theron’s character was completely unrealistic. But the other elements in the movie were so spectacular that most people overlooked it. The director shaved her head and made her look like a man/lesbian. He knew that everybody would have laughed if she looked like one of the pretty wives (aka a typical woman).
Remember how the director did the same thing in Alien 3 with Sigourney Weaver – shaved her head? Remember that whole paragraph about exceptions I talked about? Yes, a testosterone-filled lesbian with her head shaved can pass for a guy, but it’s still way better if you just use a guy. It should have been Max doing everything that Theron’s character was doing. That was one of the biggest complaints about the move, because everyone knew Furiosa was feminist propaganda.
Yeah, we get it, it’s fun to be snarky internet critics, I wouldn’t bother watching if it wasn’t, but you guys really need to stop acting you have more than a basic handle on what you’re talking about. You’re hyper literate when it comes to simple set design/lighting/production but you’re too concerned with hip irony to actually make anything of any real value. There’s nothing wrong with this, again it’s fun, until you start leveraging how competent you guys are to people who know even less, impressionable teenagers usually, and mixup legitimate, productive film criticism with a bunch of retarded in jokes.
Rouge One was a pretty decent cash grab, plenty of hokey modern action clichés but also a lot of interesting and effective choices scattered everywhere. I get that the implied message of the review is probably not too far off from that, you know, the movie being mostly harmless as a whole, but did we really need a half an hour of you guys jerking off about how self aware and superior you are to the material? Would you stop trying to impress everybody all the damn time and actually try to meet what you’re talking about on its own level, as something actual people made? That type of stuff did it for me when I was 17, when I thought that it was easier to let people act like they knew for me than do something uncool like putting the work in, but it really doesn’t now.
Also, get rid of Jack and Rich.
“I get that the implied message of the review is probably not too far off from that.”
“did we really need a half an hour of you guys jerking off about how self aware and superior you are to the material?”
You mean what you’re doing in this post?
No “I know you are but what am I” shit, if you’re going to be so damn sassy at least earn it by being specific.
“at least earn it by being specific.”
Certainly. You’re a hypocrite.
I just heard a radio interview with Rogue One writer, Chris Weitz, on Dallas Sports Radio 1310 The Ticket. He said that the scene in the trailer where the Tie Fighter hovers up before Jyn on the broadcast tower wasn’t done by anyone that had anything to do with the actual movie and was in no way a part of anything they were working on in the actual movie. It was something the trailer house that produced the movie trailer did on their own. So, it wasn’t part of any kind of deleted scene or reshoot. It was just some bit of CG the trailer production crew thought would look cool.
Also, Chris said that he originally had an actual speaking part written out for the tentacle creature that was used to read the mind of, Bodhi Rook, the Imperial defector. He envisioned a type of, Hannibal Lecter kind of character, stuck in a cell, and using his tentacles to force a human “dummy” to speak for him. Kinda sounds like something out of “Independence Day” when the alien uses its tentacles to force Data Brent Spiner to talk.
Also with regards to actual deleted scenes he said that the odds of much of what was cut from the movie won’t make it into any kind of extended version of the movie. One of the by products of such a CG heavy movie is that once a scene gets cut, then all the CG work just stops. So, any deleted scenes would be unfinished and thus highly unlikely any of it would ever be used.
yah, i actually thought to myself ‘look how ridiculous vader’s control unit on hi suit looks’ when he first appeared on the gangway. but it’s not really so much the goofy ‘star warsy’ stuff–it’s the attempt to replicate the aesthetic of the ‘star warsy’ stuff. the problem with the cgi in both this and ‘tfa’ is that it contrasts too much with the late 70s/early 80s aesthetics of the original trilogy. it was obviously a problem with the prequels, too, but the last 2 movies at least tried to make the cg object dirty/belonging in the world. unfortunately, you can’t have a tie fighter and an x-wing whirling around (there is also a notable difference in how they choreograph dogfights, which is jarring) a tropical world with pristine cg and contoured towers, then quickly switch to a scene where you’re in the insides of a battleship that looks more at home inside willy wonka’s factory than with what is going on outside of the ship. big buttons/blinking lights and austere paneling just clashes with the cg too much. i just don’t think it’s possible to meld the two without it becoming
though the star destroyers looked were very toyetic in that they reminded me of a plastic model; i liked that about them.
Tarkin and Leia’s CGI look wouldn’t be so bothersome if you just put Vaseline in your eyes.
Merry Christmas, from Vaseline.
well hopefully Princess Leia doesn’t pass away this year. hell george is still alive
Perhaps I’m taking it too personally, but I literally felt like the movie was giving me the middle finger for liking Star Wars every time it opened a new can of references (which was every 35 seconds).
Here’s the guy from the cantina scene. ..|.. Here’s Jimmy Smits for some reason. ..|.. Here’s the same opening shot from Episode 4. ..|.. Here’s R2D2 for some reason. ..|..
As for the shot reverse shot stuff – yes, of course. I merely meant it as an example of how every non-action scene in this film was shot as boring as possible.
If you think about their criticisms of the characters about how they had poor or nonexistant backstories, I don’t think they really had time for that. The movie was slow enough in the first hour, it could only get more boring if they took time out to drone on about each character’s past.
I mean, look at A New Hope. Luke is the only character you get any appreciable backstory on. Leia? Nothing whatsoever. Obi-wan? Nope, vague references. Han Solo? Not really, a couple mentionings of past smuggling operations. Only later in Empire do you hear more like dealings with Lando. Chewie? Nothing. C3PO and R2D2 have about two lines of dialogue for their backstory while Luke is cleaning them.
So what’s the difference? Simple. The New Hope characters are LIKABLE and the characters in this movie are not. (Except the robot.) I couldn’t care less about these characters and in fact was rooting for them to die.
I got my wish. That’s probably why I liked the movie.
Preach, my man. Don’t worry about the silly, politically correct indignants. I walk outside my door and these truths you are touching are hiding in plain sight, so to speak. And some of these goofs fancy themselves as virtuous for not noticing because their grade school teachers instilled in them the idea that theyre somehow terrible people if they do.
normally I think you guys are spot on with your reviews and most of the time I happen to agree almost completely with your criticisms.
but this time, you’ve really dropped the ball with this review.
and the funny thing is, just about every criticism you guys made about Rogue One are the EXACT reasons I hated Force Awakens.
lack of character backstory. boring plot. unoriginal plot. (also illogical plot). lame comic relief. gratuitous fan service. more of the same sh*t.
all these apply to Force Awakens even more so than Rogue One.
I think Rogue One had something new to offer a Star Wars audience because, even though it showed – as you said – ‘same old’ Tie-Fighters, X-Wings, Light-Sabres, Death Star, etc, it showed aspects of this beloved universe not visited before in any Star Wars movie .. the unpleasant side of being a rebel, the impossibility of organising a rebellion consisting of so many disagreeing factions, the power-play and ‘knee-capping’ among Imperial officers to get ahead of each other, and most of all, how bad-ass Darth Vader actually can be on the front line.
Rogue One worked for me because it put me in the universe I wanted to be in (no Empire Remnant, or whatever it’s called, no Clone Troopers, no Gungans, no midiclorians) and gave me a sad yet engaging story set in that universe, and added, without diminishing, the beloved story of the original trilogy.
This is my favourite of the ‘new’ Star Wars so far, and the only one i have actually liked.
Furiousa was no more or less unrealistic than any other character in that movie. You have some weird prejudices and stereotypes that affect you when you watch movies. I also notice that you are not able to defend your assertion that Han Solo was a misogynist womanizer who princess Leia ‘tames’ to become a good leader or whatever. That’s because, as I said earlier, you made that shit up to reinforce your personal confirmation bias.
More impossible than the idea of light sabers?
You’re the fanboi if you loved TFA, That movie was a steaming pile of shit! We already saw ANH 40 years ago. Move on with your shit opinions.
She knew too much, Hillary Clinton’s people did what they had to do.
I’m not really understanding why half the comments section is comparing this movie with The Force Awakens. They’re wildly divergent films- TFA was a coming-of-age story, while R1 is a gritty war drama. Personally, I enjoyed them both, and I’m very impressed that Disney had the guts to make R1 so dark (and not in the unbearable model of the DC franchises).
I also appreciate that neither film wasted time with a love story.
I hear ya. I can’t quite bring myself to hate it, but it definitely irritated me quite a bit.
Also, I like to think that Vader wasn’t living on the volcano world, but it was like his day spa. He gets to kick back and relax outside his suit in a nice soothing milk bath, until assholes from work interrupt his vacation to grovel for approval.
Plus the robot’s sarcastic demeanor makes all the more sense when you realize he really wants to murder everyone in attendance, but cannot because THEY KIDNAPPED AND MIND CONTROLLED HIM. He’s literally a slave. What a bunch of assholes the rebels are.
“. I also notice that you are not able to defend your assertion that Han Solo was a misogynist womanizer who princess Leia ‘tames’ to become a good leader or whatever. ”
I don’t need to, it’s obvious. Plus I don’t have the time or the motivation. In any case, it was not even central to my main argument that men and women are fundamentally different and that trying to make women act like men just doesn’t work.
You’re accusations are so hypocritical. YOU’RE the one who ignored my strongest points and completely went ape shit on my final point about Leia.
“That’s because, as I said earlier, you made that shit up to reinforce your personal confirmation bias.”
JJ has already admitted, openly, that there is a feminist agenda in both TFA and R1. So did the director of Mad Max and so did the director of Ghostbusters. It’s not like the people in Hollywood are hiding this shit. This is not “personal bias”. So many movie fans are complaining about this issue – except the ultra politically correct lefties like yourself. Ghostbusters in particular was another egregious example of how this stupid feminist agenda in Hollywood is ruining so many movies.
Let’s Make America Great Again by ridding ourselves of this hyper-politically-correct bullshit.
Sorry guys, but your are way off on this. This movie had characters that weren’t acting like they were in a movie, and it didn’t have any Hosnian sized problems like TFA had. It was just a stronger narrative with more internal logic to it, and I’m surprised that Mike, who is usually the narrative guy didn’t stand up for it.
My only theory is that you guys swam in the marketing and I completely avoided it, because this movie independent of the marketing is just a solid movie. And unlike TFA things were in this movie only when they made sense, not just as star wars fanservice, ATAT’s make sense on that base, grand mov tarkin makes sense being there, vader showing up at the end makes sense. The earth didn’t have to break open to conveniently end a fight, the whole story flowed organgically from the logic of the universe and the characters choices. JJ’s characters are more compelling only on a shallow showy level. I’m fine that they exist but are we really wishing for a “finn’s do you have a boyfriend” type movie over this?
Also they show Forrest Whitaker being slow as fuck so that kinda explained that. Sure he could’ve tagged along, but he was a weird guy, not even trying to run along felt fine for his character.
I am really surprised RLM was this off on this movie.
It’s weird, but the robots in Star Wars seem to have personalities that exist outside of their programming. I think the programming is more of just a general guideline type of thing e.g. always follow this guys orders, never do this etc, but their demeanour and personal characteristics are random. I don’t think all of C-3PO’s droid kind are cowardly / pessimistic / socially awkward for example, just him. By the same token, not all of K-2SO droid kind are sarcastic shit-stirring assholes, just him.
It’s a trick – and one used in movies other than war movies.
It’s just that it works only in movies with a group of people all in one place – and then everyone or nearly everyone dies.
And most of those movies are war movies… or horror or disaster movies.
So writers get away with minimum character development by either providing the characters with a “story” they can tell – or by defining their whole character by the way they die.
It’s a trick to make supporting characters seem more developed than just a walking meatwall.
I get you man. I really do.
I find those same things to be a burden to have to sit through nowadays.
Instead of it being a blockbuster you can’t wait to watch both Star Wars and Marvel movies are now just “Well, there’s nothing better on and I need background noise while doing a thing.”
BUT… again… R1 works better than the last 4 SW movies and most Marvel movies.
It would work even better if it had LESS unnecessary cameos.
Then it would be a very solid SciFi opera set in a Star Wars universe. Sadly, we have to have those. Because toys.
As for Doctor Strange… I saw a cam-rip of it.
Kept thinking about Constantine and how much better THAT movie with an androgynous Tilda Swinton-played character was.
And that movie was mostly shit. It even had Shia LaBeouf.
And back then I couldn’t stand Rachel Weisz – and that movie had two of her.
Even the clever heroic sacrifice ending felt more satisfying.
This is what happens when children grow up and become cynical adults. We all loved Star Wars as kids because it was magical and epic and we were completely open to that. Now? Too much brain-brain.
“I don’t need to, it’s obvious.” You don’t need to, of course. You type do whatever bullshit you want into the interwebs. But you should if you make the assertion. Otherwise you’re just talking shit.
2/3 of the movie is dull and stupid. This review was spot on. It’s their TFA review that they got wrong.
You’re right, they weren’t that hard on it. They said it’s a well-made big-budget action movie with uninteresting characters and story. Which makes it like 90% of what comes out of Hollywood these days. They can produce amazing settings and action sequences, and back them with great scores and sound effects. But something about the combination of writing, acting, and (I think) orienting the results to the global market is leaving the characters flat. Even when they remake/reboot classics that had great, memorable characters, they end up with replacement characters no one will remember a week later.
Yes. And as Jay (I think) pointed out, since you know how it’s going to end, that makes it even more important to have good characters you care about. It’s fine to watch a story knowing the end, if the characters are interesting enough that you enjoy going along for the ride with them. But memorable characters seem to be the one thing a billion-dollar budget can’t provide.
True, we didn’t get much backstory in the first movie, but we got character anyway. Within a couple minutes of meeting each one, you have a good idea who Luke, Han, Leia, Obi Wan, Vader, and even C3PO are. Not in great depth, but enough to inform their actions and make them memorable. No one’s ever accused Mark Hamill of being a great actor, but he managed to convey the “orphaned farm boy yearning for greatness” trope in a couple short scenes. We knew Leia was a tough chick from one conversation with the bad guys. And so on.
Even though the original Star Wars was a complete story with an ending,
we wanted to know what happened to those characters next, and were glad
to see the series continue. A whole extended universe developed to tell
more stories about them. Today, it just doesn’t seem like they’re able to create characters like that. We get the archetypes like Action Chick and Comic Relief Guy, but no character to give them life. A whole extended universe developed to tell more stories about them. When was the last time Hollywood produced characters that drew anywhere near that level of interest?
So what is it? Is it acting? Have actors become too wooden, unable to convey character for some reason? Or is it the writing, that writers can’t give them anything meaningful and memorable to say? Or something else?
They could have cut out 30 minutes of the data tape thing. My first thought was that they explicitly had the data tape robotic arm things so that they could include it in a video game, but then they end up avoiding the arm things altogether.
Why? They’d Tarkin her. Probably they mocapped the shit out her just for the possibility she’d kick off.
grand mov tarkin makes sense being there, vader showing up at the end makes sense
It maybe makes sense they’d be in the mix someplace. That doesn’t necessarily mean we needed them on screen uncannily talking into the camera.
It was more than just the image. When Tarkin talked it didn’t look right. I was suprised at that since I would have figured mocapping would get accurate mouth movement. It also didn’t sound right. Having just seen the movie, my impression was that Tarkin was talking too fast. It should have been slower and more deliberate.
Did not like the force monk. Forest Whitaker and the force monk’s gun totting companion needed captions. Mads Mikkelsen would have made a better jedi.
With the canon I think what will happen is that only the trilogy films are canon. The solo films will become like the extended universe books, legends or something.
Take him to see it and then leave after the trailer for Cars 2.
Agreed. The external factors and competing interests involved during the production of a blockbuster are like an assault course designed to weed out smart writing and fleshed-out characterisation. IMO any time we get a big-budget film that delivers in these areas it will be in spite of the production system, rather than because of it.
I think it’s not so much “wink wink nudge nudge” as that the writers put in the work to make the script dovetailed into Star Wars ’77.
Finn: “do you have a boyfriend, cute boyfriend?”
I’m pretty sure that droids are whatever the writers want them to be. Having them act like people just makes sense if you’re going to include them as characters, especially in a sci-fantasy type narrative. I don’t think that Star Wars is too keen on tackling complicated issues of sentience and self-consciousness.
exept that she wasnt meant to be a lesbian; it was tom hardys idea, that max left the citadelle after the fights. original in the script, he was meant to stay with furiosa as her lover. is every woman with a shaved head a lesbian *per se* for you?
not only the rebels; EVERYONE in the galaxy treated them like slaves! and K-2SO is aware of his slavery, he mentiod it multiple times trough sarcasm. thats the beauty of his character.
true. gilbert grape was by far his best performance ever. no doubt about it.
also, one of his best; also a pretty good junkie-drama-film. and you wont belive it, but mark wahlberg is also pretty decent in this one. in fact, he was never better, not before or after. go watch both.
he must be fucking with us; my jar dropped when I heard that one from jay!
“If Albert Einstein and J. Oppenheimer both died in a car crash, that weapon never gets built.”
this is just bullshit. it wasnt so much *if* they can build the bomb, more like *how fast* they can build it. and you forget teller; at the time of the first fission bomb build, he was already on the hydrogene-bomb, the “super-SUPER-bomb”.
if you want some background not to embarrass yourself again, google “Oppenheimer (1980) – Episode 1” on the tube.
and dont forget the burning, smoking body of anakin. and the aftermath surgery without ANY anaesthetic/painkiller whatsoever.
weird. I tought TFA (which I mostly hated) was completly on-the-nose-fanservice in a bad way; R1 for contrast did in a way the same, but this time it was just delivered properly, so it wasnt embarrasing like in TFA.
depends on personal taste then, I assume.
thats the point; every fanboy got the film he wanted, depending on personal taste (as I mentioned above). and they both -TFA as well R1- are in a way fan-fiction.
“Foolishly, I thought that I would enjoy the film”. hm. a few posts earlyer your wrote, you were “openminded”. thats not the same. as for me, I had no expetations whatsoever, and I was truly surprised, how good the movie was working for me.
“OK, so now they’re in and they can just stroll over to the room with the
files, right? Nope, because they instead choose to completely blow
their cover with a full-scale attack on the base.”
you sure you saw the movie? maybe you werent paying enough attention? because its all explainend. thats one of the reasons I liked it.
you didnt liked it, we get it! no problem 😉
Oh yeah, Domhnall Gleeson’s character mentions it
ITS A PREQUEL FOR FUCKS SAKE!
maybe thats the difference; its an “european” starwars-movie *giggle*
no, the droids were already on board, so was leia. her “dad” were with her at yavin at the start of the battle, he went back home to alderaan, she joinend the battle. probally
on purpose, to get the plans asap.
“This movie is for neck beards who want to see lightsabers”
jah, right. exactly ONE(!) scene with a lightsaber. I saw the movie for sure only because of that!
Which is stupid, because we don’t need the CGI in most deleted scenes to get value from it! Unless it’s a scene made solely of CGI, in which case it would be blank.
I suspect that’s what happened with TFA release, we don’t get to see any of the deleted scenes that we had any interest in…
I’ve never seen reviews more divided than on this movie.
Perchance, can we expect a Mr. Plinkett review eventually?
I live in Asia. No marketing here unless you look for it via YouTube. My mates and myself…. All hardened bikers… loved it. Going for another viewing… The last film i saw in the cinema was the latest Bourne film of which I almost walked out of. Glad this film is doing well….the red letter media team also have a legion of younger fans (desevedly) whom I think just amplify the views of Mike and Jay…
It’s not my problem that people have poor taste, or that people can’t pick up on the subtlety and/or juxtaposition of their former arguments against this film franchise, or that people overreact to tongue-in-cheek internet comments, or that they feel the need to ‘defend the honor’ of a movie produced by a large, corporate entity, which in and of itself is notorious for putting their marketing and advertising for products ahead of the artistry and any inherent creativity of said products – that’s up to you to fix, friend.
Yet, you reacted exactly like I expected some obsequious, malingering Star Wars fanboy would react to any opposition to your personal opinion – sad, solipsistic, closed-minded, humorless nonsense, polemically shifted to contradict my originally playful statement. Neat!
Whatever makes you feel better about being the only NUMBER ONE STAR WARS FAN, amirite?
I get it nightly from your mom.
My first viewing I was just kind off put-off that it felt so different and I didn’t know what the hell it was tying to do. The 3D didn’t help as I kept getting annoyed at it.
For all the slack he got, Kylo Renn was really the only decent character for me. Poe Dameron was ‘best pilot man’ and I really don’t see how Rey and Finn would pass the Plinket test with flying colours. We know very little about Rey, she gets caught up in a plot without her wanting to, she wants to go home half way and she somehow fights her way out of every sticky situation. But what is her goal? What is she about? I don’t know, I only know she kicks ass and wants to go back to Jakku to wait for her parents who left her there for some reason? I don’t feel I know her at all. Finn is the same story. He too gets caught up in a story and basically only wants to flee, but then he suddenly wants to save Rey? They both don’t have any ties with the resistance or clear goals or obstacles to overcome, other than what the movie randomly throws at them?
Why are the alien heads in these new Star Wars films so enormous? Did you notice the buttface guy in R1 and the Nien Nunb type guy from TFA?
Ah more of the disparaging strangers on the internet with juvenile name calling. You are definitely trolling here buddy. Reread your statement “…or that people overreact to tongue-in-cheek internet comments” and look in the mirror.
R.I.P Princess of Alderaan / Carrie Fisher.
You are now one with the force.
Fell asleep so many times in this movie. BTW, I’m pretty sure Itchy Bacca is in it…
K2-SO is a meant to be a Nerf version of HK-47, right? I never played KOTOR but that character casts quite a shadow.
I used to work at a production house which did movie trailers, and that’s complete horseshit. They don’t make their own effects or shots, they use what’s been provided. That scene was cut following reshoots and the dude didn’t want to explain how many things were changed.
Given some of the other shots in the trailer which weren’t in the film (Krennec on the beach at the base of the tower; Jyn running across the beach with the Death Star plans hard drive in her hand), there were some significant changes to how the final act played out.
I’m sure once you’ve worked at one trailer production house, you’ve worked for them all, Right? 😉
” We get the archetypes like Action Chick and Comic Relief Guy, but no
character to give them life. A whole extended universe developed to
tell more stories about them. When was the last time Hollywood produced
characters that drew anywhere near that level of interest?”
Did you ever stop and wonder that maybe you think they’re bad characters because you recognize the archetypes now, when 30 years ago you didn’t notice and didn’t yet care? The original Star Wars characters are as archetypal as they come. Hell, it’s one of those movies that helped create the cliches you think of.
The problem isn’t the characters’ backstory, it’s that you hate them. In this movie, the moment that the rebels risk their lives to bust Action Girl out of a prison transport and she responded by punching her rescuers in the face and trying to run away is the moment the moviemakers lost me on her character – I now hated her, and that never changed because she sure as hell never did anything likable after that – a whole lot of whining.
The only other 3PO unit we see do something is the one on Cloud City, which immediately says something rude when C3PO accosts it. And the one in Episode 1 at the beginning that is complicit in the Jedi’s attempted murder.
I like to think that in a deep irony, the droid line explicitly designed for etiquette and protocol are really a bunch of huge annoying assholes all the time and no one in the universe likes them.
That’s another thing that’s always weird – Star Wars in general has really advanced tech, but certain key parts (like say, computers) are like they’re still stuck in the 70s. Whenever they bring something up on a screen it’s like some low res diagram, and all the computers are giant main frames that have to have stuff shoved into them manually. Satellite dishes are a must for anything wireless, they have scratchy radio for audio, and any video transmissions look like they’re barely hanging on and are always breaking up.
So now we have this convoluted mechanism to get to any archived Imperial data, which are stored in a hard drive that can’t be accessed on any network? And that’s the only place in the universe where you had the plans? I think the people ON the Death Star might have wanted them in their system in case one of the water pipes burst somewhere and they have to figure out which hatch to take to get to it. And they’re stored in these giant tower things over a huge pit? You just know that arm chooser thing’s gonna break and then drop something, and then your only copy (since there’s no backups apparently) gets dropped in a pit with Palpatine’s corpse.
Rich laughing at the Tarkin cartoon hahaha
I know you hacks played none of them vidya gaymez but the Knights of The Old Republic series has managed to do what you thought this movie has failed at: it contains stories and characters that don’t rely too much on stuff from the Original Trilogy. Well, maybe the first game is a bit by-the-numbers but the second one is definitely something else entirely. Also, some of the class storylines in the MMO are pretty well-written. You have war drama, espionage, villain-origin story, comedic action-adventure romp and everything integrates seamlessly into a larger world.
All I’m saying is that Star Wars has potential beyond AT-AT-s and Darth Vader and CGI Bea Arthur but you need actual writers and less executive meddling.
I won’t defend CGI Tarken as “not-distracting” but his use was fine. Vader’s mid-scene felt like a re-shoot and honestly I could’ve done completely without, but it didn’t ruin the movie. Beyond that though like I said it makes sense that they are about, particularly Tarkin.
Very well said, it’s like they bottled up all the things they didn’t like about TFA and are dumping them on this movie as opposed to where it actually belonged.
It is a better made movie, IMO. But if you want a more flashy “stuff of force destiny legends tone” then TFA is going to look better. TFA made a point of telling us how important everything that was going on was, R1 showed us what was important through what happened on screen, there are no people “destined for greatness” in the film, just background people doing their best to triumph.
“I’m in the comments section for a website that got famous for spending hours picking apart the flaws of Star Wars movies, now I’m going to give people shit for caring about Star Wars”
idk Mike has usually been a guy who cares about story a lot, (when he’s not enjoying schlock movies) and this movie had a good robust story.
What did Mike hear that they had to cut? I can’t make it out.
Rogue One had so many callbacks, I thought I was watching an episode of Arrested Development.
Hey, you can buy an HK-47 at your local Wal-Mart. Tell ’em Wayne LaPierre sent you!
Not sure what the deal is regarding what this movie could have been, but I’m also curious what all the reshoots were about.
Rogue One took place literally 5 minutes before ANH, of course it’s going to have elements from ANH, knobs.
Sorry, you guys are just flat-out wrong on this one. It was a good flick.
Sorry, I’m not a fanboy, and I still liked it.
I liked this, but it’s not great by any stretch and I REALLY don’t understand the people saying this is the 2nd best movie to Empire Strikes Back. It has some very good action elements, but that’s really it. There was no substance to this that made me want to watch it again.
First off, why was it necessary to have someone build in a fatal flaw? Big ship has a power source, find a way to attack the power source and big ship blows up. That’s simple. It wasn’t the exhaust port that was the flaw (see Diply’s animation on that), but the cascade that’s explained as the flaw. That’s completely unnecessary.
Second, why was it necessary to convince the rebellion the Death Star existed? Most of the movie isn’t even about how they’re getting the plans, but rather that they need those plans in the first place. It spends so much time jumping from place to place just to get to the fact that there IS this Death Star and the need the plans that it’s just a mess.
Related to that, why was it necessary to go to so many places? It spends so much time visiting and setting up new places that are ultimately inconsequential that we spend no time with the actual characters we’re supposed to care about. I have no idea who these people are, and since they’re not going to be seen again it really felt more like I was following cannon fodder around, which just isn’t interesting. That they actually have to go rogue from the rebellion itself is rather ridiculous.
Essentially, IMO, the movie tried to do too much instead of keeping things pretty simple. A defector reveals the Death Star is a thing, and the rebellion recruits Jyn to assemble a group to steal the plans. That gives the incentive for her to travel to assemble her crew based on what she perceives as the necessary skills and allows us to be introduced to the players along the way as we get to know and connect with the people. The finale can even play out mostly the same (although I’d drop the AT-ATs as being ridiculous in context — an assault vehicle as a defense?), but this time we know the people and feel their loss and sacrifice.
As it was, I’m actually in agreement with RLM here; nice action fluff, but ultimately this is forgettable.
I’ve come back from my look in the mirror, and as it turns out, I’m really into the band KoRn now.
Both KOTOR games are the shit.
Wow, I’m finding myself not agreeing at all with you guys on this one. You’re surprised to find Star Wars elements and references to ANH in a movie directly preceding it and tying in with it? OK… I recommend you never watch a new Star Wars movie ever again then… I thought this movie was actually fan-service light and I only really cringed at the R2 and Threepio cameo. On a side note, shouldn’t Cornelius and Ponda have died with the desruction of Jedha? Guess they took a flight for Tatooine before it went kablewy. Anyway, not having X-wings or TIE-fighters or AT-ATs and so on would be like having a WWII war movie with no sherman tanks, spitfire planes, thompson submachine guns, luger pistols or Nazi imagery. They’re are pretty recognizable elements of the era. Same goes for Star Wars, which has a pretty well-defined history and matching pre-established technology. They still made the new U-Wing and TIE Striker btw… And really, having to choose between a bunch of all new freshly created things that have the risk of being dull and boring *cough*anythingfromtheprequels*cough*, or referring to old things I remember being cool, and still find cool, I’m kinda leaning toward the latter. I’m not “cumming” all over it though, it’s just part of the scenery… If they can come up with something entirely original, memorable and cool, then bonus!
Enough about the fan-service. What did I think about the movie itself? I thought it was great, slightly better than TFA, but I don’t agree with those who claim it’s the best new thing after Empire. It’s not without flaws. The story, especially at the beginning, could’ve been streamlined and simplified, it jumped around a bit too much. The characters could’ve been written a bit better and I agree that Jyn is a bit flat compared to Rey who had more personality to her. I also really did not like how the last few minutes panned out. As for kids finding it depressing, who the hell cares? Remember the last time they tried to please everyone? Oh that’s right, the prequels happened. So what if a side story, once in a while, is more adult-oriented and a bit darker? You still have the main storyline that has all the corny dialogue and silly humour you could ever want to fallback to with episode 7 (and on, I’m sure). Overall, I was thoroughly engaged and curious to see how things would connect with ANH. The action scenes were really well executed and a blast to watch. Yeah, I really enjoyed myself there. I would’ve stayed for another sitting immediatly after, but I was with my 73 year old dad so I didn’t. And btw, my dad completely loved this movie as well, and he’s not even a Star Wars fan. Anyway, to each his own.
So guys… Drop the cynicism a tad, it’s not healthy. You might even learn how to love things again! Who can say…
PS: Who freakin’ applauses in the middle of a movie or at the end even? Is that an american thing? I don’t think I’ve ever seen this phenomenon in Canada, not in my area anyway.
Holy crap were you guys hard on this movie, lol. You explained yourselves very well and I AM a 36 year old bearded dude who grew up with Star Wars – but my beard is light and I’m skinny. It definitely does feel like a fan fiction film, but after suffering through the prequels a fan fiction film is exactly what I wanted because I figured it could do no worse.
I like Rogue One much more than The Force Awakens precisely because it tries something different, particularly with the tone of the film. There could have been more character development and I didn’t think Tatooine should have been featured at all, but the cameos were fun and preferable to having those characters in major roles. I didn’t even notice R2D2 and C3PO.
I agree 100% with the spy film idea though. There still could have been an awesome third act battle, but one of my favorite parts of A New Hope was when they creeped around the Death Star.
He was great in that, as well as This Boys life with Robert Deniro, and Gilbert Grape. Titanic almost typecasted him, but since The Departed he’s put in some great roles.
This film suffered from what Gareth Edwards’ previous film “Godzilla” did- weak characterization. No more, no less.
Wears that hat the entire time. LOL
You RLM guys should watch Hacksaw Ridge. One of the best popcorn films of the decade, up there with Fury Road, GotG, Django and Dredd.
I watched this movie yesterday, and the best film I can compare it to is Battle Royal 2; I’m just left with the impression that everyone is horribly incompetent.
It’s not as grim as Anakin killing a bunch of jedi children.
A coming of age story? She happened upon Han, the lightsabre and had honed her Jedi skills enough well beyond where Luke was at the end of Empire. There was no reason for her to help BB-8 (a robot) which lead her to Finn. She might as well have found a screwdriver in the desert and gone on a mission to return to its owner. Maz gives her the lightsabre, massive contrivance (all the more as well saw briefly in the trailer, that she was handing it to Leia) and she just picks up the skills necessary to defeat Kylo. Coming of Age – call to adventure is the first step but there is no story to TFA. The few points I listed are natural story points in ANH even down to Luke having a reason to come into possession of the droids.
I’m guessing they’re the same size, and we just never noticed before as Nien Nunb was sitting down the whole time and all you see of Buttface is a close-up shot. Back then, I’d say they took these things into account. They were probably like “Hey. Worgnon Mogootu’s head looks ridiculously big, so let’s shoot it this way.”
Probably their worst Star Wars review yet.
There’s nothing particularly there to like or dislike about Jyn.
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